EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:48 am
See, I think you are missing a number of key good points considering he is only averaging 15 minutes a game and people thought he was more of a project:
- he averages 7.4 pts/4.6 rebounds a game coming off the bench
- besides C-Lo who is a block machine, he has the most blocks on the team averaging a little more than 1 a game
- he doesn't turn the ball over. Just 17 in 20 games.
- he doesn't take many poor shots and shoots 64% from the field
- he shoots 68% from the line. Not great but much better than anyone expects from a guy without a faceup shot. Btw, his % is better that AT's and the team shoots just 73%.
- He's an aircraft carrier in the lane on D which helps to bottle up driving lanes
- He's all business; no theatrics or huge hi/lo stretches
- He loves his teammates and the feeling appears to be mutual
I'm gonna disagree a bit. First, I did not the shotblocking both in my good and bad sections as the skill of his that stands out the most.
I'd argue your offensive stats are contained in my comment that he has a limited offensive game but plays within those limits. He has 17 to's but only 11 assists. It's because he doesn't try to create and doesn't get offense run through him. He gets the ball for dunks and latups, but to his credit, he understands that and does not try to do too much. He knows why he's out there and sticks to it.
On the more intangible qualities, I never really profess to know much on those. Again, no disrespect for Ballo.
Yes, he has only 11 assists but C-Lo has only 24 and he has played 200 more minutes. He is never going to be a Bill Walton type center but I'd rather he not turn the ball over by forcing a pass or taking a bad shot when he does get the ball. That's the point I was trying to make.
Oh, and I'm sure CTL understands intangibles a little.
You think Tommy Lloyd has anything on my internet knowledge? I have like 10 years on this board and he's a first year HC.
I think Tommy would genuflect to your internet prose and experience. He would give you that shrug of his and say "I keep things simple and try to win basketball games."
And inside he would be thinking "I know more about basketball in my little finger than Spiff knows after 10 years on that crazy board."
**Sorry for the delay. Forgot to post this here last night.
For all the talk about how badly UA had been playing, how good UCLA looked in game 1, and how piss poor our offense was; tonight was mostly the exact opposite.
I mentioned in a few threads this past week, that I thought the overreactions to the UCLA loss and the ASU game went too far. That the adjustments to be made were not schematic, but rather pretty straight forward. That was essentially the case, outside of the twin towers lineup which stifled the UCLA offense for six or seven minutes tonight, and the coaching on both ends was outstanding.
Game 1 at UCLA was predicated on UCLA playing outstanding defense, swarming Benn (especially when he was attacking), overloading the defense to the ball, and pressuring the ball and the next pass.
So how did Lloyd counter out of the gate? He had Zu sprinting down the floor for early duck ins, seals and pushing the ball ahead before the defense could get set. In addition to this, Zu and Koloko/Ballo were also tasked with sealing via hi-low action, or duck in seals off guards turning the corner on ball screen action. Lifting the defense with one big and ducking in with the other, created those gaps behind the defense we were unable to generate last week.
In addition to Zu sprinting for duck ins, he also had another role in the open floor. As the trail man, Zu was tasked with sprinting the floor behind the play, crossing his mans face and cutting ball side. This was clearly game planned in because the ball would swing to the corner off a push in transition, and the pass was delivered with Zu going full speed on his cut, hands ready. The result caught UCLA off guard, at least in my opinion, and propelled us to a lead early in the game.
Much like we all bantered about this last week, the key to UAs offense has always been ball and player movement. That was absolutely on full display in the first half. Ball swinging side to side, back cuts, relocating off ball movement drive and drift, cutting baseline when the defense is overloaded.
To make matters more difficult for UCLA, our defense was flying around just as much. The scheme was adjusted a bit more than the regular drop coverage, stick to your man off the ball, and force 2v2 actions against Ballo and Koloko. That plays right into UCLAs hands, and tonight you saw us is more traditional help responsibilities off the ball.
The switching scheme was back. Help was at the nail early, guys were sprinting into x-outs to close out on the ball swinging and our defense rotating. You also saw a lot of varied tweaks, with the strong side guard coming to blitz a ball screen, and the on-ball guard/wing sprinting out to the corner to run that pass off the line. In fact, you saw a lot of running UCLA off the line tonight, forcing them into the teeth of our defense. When we wanted to apply pressure, you saw Benn or Dalen pick up Tyger as soon as he crossed half court. As such, UCLA shot 3-14 from three.
Next, you have one of my favorite adjustments of the entire game. Cronin went to a 4/5 PNR with Jaquez handling the ball and trying to go right at Zu. Cronin went to this in game 1, and it lead to 10 straight points being scored on Zu. So how did Lloyd adjust at the next dead ball? Koloko at the 4 and Ballo at the 5. Weve seen this a few times this year, but not like this. While I have been asking for us to allow Koloko to switch ALL ball screens a bit more, my request was granted. On three straight possessions he shut down Jaquez, Bernard and Tyger. The final two coming combined together, as we gave up and offensive rebound and Koloko just lokced right back in. That is the type of defensive versatility the NBA loves. Koloko has it.
Early in the second half, it was much of the same from us. Back to our base scheme. Guys cutting from the slot, similar to the ball screen continuity offense, with a weave, dribble hand off, pass and cut, ect. turning into a ball screen off the wing. Then Cronin adjusted his defense. The ball pressure ratcheted up, they were pressuring the second pass in our base action, knowing we are looking to get the ball to Zu and then swing into the side actions with the slot cut and DHO. Jaquez was back to being a pest, much like game 1. Denying that pass and pressuring the ball absolutely stifled our flow.
Unlike game 1 at Pauley, we werent going to just ditch our base offense and turn the keys over to Benn attacking off high ball screens, right into the swarming UCLA defense. Instead, Lloyd countered this Cronin counter right before the under 12 TO. The high ball screen, reversals into slot cuts and then into DHO was out for now. In was a weave action to punish UCLAs aggressiveness, plus lift the defense up to the foul line, allowing for those off ball gaps to open up, something we were unable to generate at Pauley.
When you lift a defense that high, and use their overloading defense and PNR coverage against them, you leave the weak side defender 1v1 with nearly half the floor to defend AND play to his ball screen coverage responsibilities. We were able to catch UCLA on this and immediately got Dalen turning the corner and Pelle back cutting for an easy layup.
This is what im talking about when we say ball and player movement. Instead of relying on Benn to manufacture good looks by forcing the UCLA defense to key on him, and then asking him to make reads he isnt ready for, we generated looks with ball movement and off ball cuts.
So what happened after the under 12 TO? Cronin backed off, and for what was essentially the final time of the game, we were able to get back to those duck in and seals. Lloyd ditched the weave and went back to his base game plan of Zu sealing, looking hi-low and duck ins off ball screen action.
Cronin then called a TO and adjusted again. The problem the rest of the way was that we were unable to counter the ball pressure, the clogging of the paint and closing down those telegraphed secondary reversals and passes which help us generate motion. The offense stalled, Kerr took some ugly shots and nobody was able to create against that slanting, overloading UCLA defense.
The final counter to the counter to the... you get it. Lloyd went away from his offense and attempted to close out the game with his ace defensive lineup. Zu and Benn on the beach, Koloko and Ballo at the 4/5. Well it worked, because it allowed us to stay home off the ball and force UCLA to attack into two giants. Ballo did an amazing reading his responsibilities, especially knowing that he needed to communicate with Koloko to switch off his man and close out on a guard. Or drop and know that Koloko is there to help. Or front Riley, knowing there is no help being him, because Koloko is on Jaquez. Likewise, Koloko defended his **** off on islands, got down in a stance and slid laterally with guys like Juzang and Jaquez.
Overall, a fantastic win. A fantastic game plan. A fantastic performance from my main man Dalen. Finally, what a coaching clinic by two of the best in the game.
Last edited by TucsonClip on Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Plus, why would I go to the NBA? Duke players suck in the pros."
As a follow up to my diatribe on the game. Mike Schmitz had a breakdown of Terry's impact on Twitter. Included in that are a couple of my highlights from above:
A call back to last week's game thread (sorry, cant remember if I posted it here or not), you can see just how hard Dalen has to work to face guard, then lock and trail Juzang around those baseline doubles at the :18 second and :28 second marks in the clip.
The :37 second mark is where I discuss right before the 2H under 12 TO, Lloyd counters UCLA's pressure by running a dribble weave set. This clip provides an excellent view of what I am talking about when I say UCLA's defense is overloaded to the strong side and slanting towards the ball. You can see the dribble weave handoff from Kier to Dalen in the left corner. Pause it at the :28 second mark... UCLA has four guys slanting ball side, and actually not one of them even with a foot in the paint. This is how they take away driving lanes and limited Benn in game 1. Notice the Zu seal, to keep the defense honest, as that was a strategy all game. UCLA has their big (Johnson) on Koloko playing at the level of the screen. That is their PNR coverage off the side. Next, you can now see the gap I mentioned above, where Watson is on an island on the weakside covering Pelle. He slides up to help at the nail, with Dalen turning the corner. Pelle sets up his designed back cut and Juzang is late to react and see he needs to slide over off Zu, because he has been fronting. Awesome play call by Lloyd and Co.
Next, at the :42 second mark, you see the early philosophy in transition I mention, of pushing the ball ahead to the wing (Terry), Zu trailing the play and sprinting down the floor. He crosses Jaquez's face and cuts ball side. Terry receives the pass and immediately looks up and flings it to Zu, cutting full speed for an easy layup.
Finally, at the :50 second mark, you see our early hi-low action on the Zu seal. Secondary break, Kerr swings to Dalen. Koloko sets a drag screen and Zu ducks in on Jaquez. as UCLA sets up their PNR coverage with Riley helping at the level of the screen, Zu seals off Jaquez, because he cant get caught on Zu's back inside their coverage. He has to be helping middle. Benn lifts off the weakside, providing all the room necessary for an easy hi-low for a Zu layup.
"Plus, why would I go to the NBA? Duke players suck in the pros."
EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:48 am
See, I think you are missing a number of key good points considering he is only averaging 15 minutes a game and people thought he was more of a project:
- he averages 7.4 pts/4.6 rebounds a game coming off the bench
- besides C-Lo who is a block machine, he has the most blocks on the team averaging a little more than 1 a game
- he doesn't turn the ball over. Just 17 in 20 games.
- he doesn't take many poor shots and shoots 64% from the field
- he shoots 68% from the line. Not great but much better than anyone expects from a guy without a faceup shot. Btw, his % is better that AT's and the team shoots just 73%.
- He's an aircraft carrier in the lane on D which helps to bottle up driving lanes
- He's all business; no theatrics or huge hi/lo stretches
- He loves his teammates and the feeling appears to be mutual
I'm gonna disagree a bit. First, I did not the shotblocking both in my good and bad sections as the skill of his that stands out the most.
I'd argue your offensive stats are contained in my comment that he has a limited offensive game but plays within those limits. He has 17 to's but only 11 assists. It's because he doesn't try to create and doesn't get offense run through him. He gets the ball for dunks and latups, but to his credit, he understands that and does not try to do too much. He knows why he's out there and sticks to it.
On the more intangible qualities, I never really profess to know much on those. Again, no disrespect for Ballo.
Yes, he has only 11 assists but C-Lo has only 24 and he has played 200 more minutes. He is never going to be a Bill Walton type center but I'd rather he not turn the ball over by forcing a pass or taking a bad shot when he does get the ball. That's the point I was trying to make.
Oh, and I'm sure CTL understands intangibles a little.
You think Tommy Lloyd has anything on my internet knowledge? I have like 10 years on this board and he's a first year HC.
I think Tommy would genuflect to your internet prose and experience.
This is truly funny. Tyger (sic) Campbell tackles (excuse me: "got tangled up with") Pelle with God knows what intent, and deservedly got the "let's go brandon" bit the rest of the game. Poetic justice that he fouled out. So "Mac" Etienne spits at the Zoo while leaving at halftime and after the game, gets busted on video, a student (Go Zoo!) presses charges, and presto...here we are. Complete tempest in a teapot, but you've got to love it. Arrogant shit Etienne pulls his crap, is no doubt shocked to get nailed for it for maybe the first time in his life. Google his name, and that's what comes up. I'm sure a booster will fork over the $1K to cover it, but UCLA has to do their damage control, as "good sportsmanship is the top priority here at..." and yadda-yadda-yadda. Their administration can't be happy. Meanwhile, Times UCLA shill Ben Bolch did his job, as he spun it as "provoked by insults." Yeah, an insult and spitting contest was held, and a basketball game broke out.
When Ballo got here I figured he’d be another Chol type.
He seemed to have conditioning issues and just threw the ball at the rim.
He has changed so much. Conditioning doesn’t seem to be an issue. Granted we aren’t playing at the same pace as in non-con but on flip side, Its a lot better competition.
His shot looks a lot better to me also.
Two weeks ago he was shooting FTs a lot better. I’m hoping the drop is just a bump in road.
That game where CLo had to sit really gave Ballo the chance to shine and he took that opportunity.
To Rawlearenas: I wonder if the change you have seen in AT has anything to do with Euro game style vs American and also just being more comfortable in Europe than in the US.
New culture and far from home type stuff.
TheCatInTheHat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:51 pm
This is truly funny. Tyger (sic) Campbell tackles (excuse me: "got tangled up with") Pelle with God knows what intent, and deservedly got the "let's go brandon" bit the rest of the game. Poetic justice that he fouled out. So "Mac" Etienne spits at the Zoo while leaving at halftime and after the game, gets busted on video, a student (Go Zoo!) presses charges, and presto...here we are. Complete tempest in a teapot, but you've got to love it. Arrogant shit Etienne pulls his crap, is no doubt shocked to get nailed for it for maybe the first time in his life. Google his name, and that's what comes up. I'm sure a booster will fork over the $1K to cover it, but UCLA has to do their damage control, as "good sportsmanship is the top priority here at..." and yadda-yadda-yadda. Their administration can't be happy. Meanwhile, Times UCLA shill Ben Bolch did his job, as he spun it as "provoked by insults." Yeah, an insult and spitting contest was held, and a basketball game broke out.
I will say that Pelle stepped pretty close to Tiger’s tail.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
USC has Arizona's size. They just came off their worst shooting game of the year. Maybe looking ahead. They are pretty experience and a couple of their guys I thought graduated. The key to me is Boogie and if he is on or off. He can be a game changer but which way is the question.
this is turning out to be a huge game for Arizona way bigger than expected - a timely sweep of the LA schools while both ranked in the top twenty coupled with a dozen attrition games taking place across the country tomorrow would solidify Arizona's inside track on a top eight seed and most likely number one seed getting to 19-2 by beating the #19 Trojans at home.
I think USC matches up well with us. This has all the markings of a let down game. All the emotion from the UCLA upset and we come back and lay an egg. Wouldn't surprise me at all. As a life long Arizona fan I've learned to expect the letdowns. I think we win today but it will be a nail biter. Going forward who knows but to expect is to be disappointed. U of A fans should know that better than anyone. One game at a time. Let's start by beating USC today.
Captain Obvious wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:31 amAs a life long Arizona fan…
That’s adorable.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
“I don’t believe in Beatles, I just believe in me.”
- Alieberman
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
Damn. I'd forgotten that the ASU game comes up this quickly. I'll be pleasantly surprised if we can win today and then turn around and get another W in Tempe. That's three games in five days!
Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:52 pm
Anyone think we have a chance on Thursday?
I think we win going away.
Did we watch the same game today?
I won’t rehash what others have said about our offensive woes. Just seems like other teams have figured out how to defend us, now that we’re halfway into the season and coaches have much better video to analyze.
