Let's Talk '22

[ChooChooCat]

Would like to hear Choo chime in on Boum and Abogidi.

I will say this: it would be fun to have announcers say, "Boum to Ballo!"

One is still going through the draft process and the other isn’t a serious target unless he wants to sit behind Tubelis. Really nothing big to say about either.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Didn't you mean "He's 6'3, Boum!"

I just wonder because we're almost assuredly selling a transfer on being a backup with Kerr, Terry and Larsson pretty entrenched. I don't know if you leave 19 ppg for your last college year to be a backup.

I doubt he says yes, but he got 19ppg playing for UTEP - a team that hasn't made the tournament in a dozen years (and hasn't made the second weekend in 30). Their only game against an at large team had them getting blown out by Kansas. Their only meaningful win was a two point home win against North Texas to finish the season.

I'm sure he can go to a potential tournament team and start. Not sure there's a chance he can join a title contending team and get a bigger role than sixth man. Still think he does the former but there's reason to say yes to the latter.

Thing is if he doesn’t have a draft stock after 5 years in college, where he just came off averaging 19ppg, then he’s never going to have a draft stock. If he’s staying in college for another year you’ve gotta think it’s to actually win games.

I will say this, I've never met a basketball player that didn't think his lack of draft stock wasn't the league overlooking him. I was a mid-D1 practice squad player, but I could have gone first round if people just saw.

Plus politics. I was a political prisoner.

[dmjcat]

[dmjcat]

Its going to be very difficult for the UA to compete with this kind of NIL $$$ being thrown around

[dmjcat]

[ChooChooCat]

In what world does that company benefit from paying that guy that sort of money? It’s Miami basketball, nobody gives a fuck. Nobody even heard of him u til he entered the portal and they’ll forget about him tomorrow now.

[Beachcat97]

In what world does that company benefit from paying that guy that sort of money? It’s Miami basketball, nobody gives a fuck. Nobody even heard of him u til he entered the portal and they’ll forget about him tomorrow now.

I thought the same thing. It basically means Miami has connections to wealthy donors/sponsors, who have a stake in the hoops program.

What is this gonna look like once Kentucky and UNC and Duke get their NIL footing under them? Seems like it's still much too early to really know what the brave new world of NIL is going to bring. But if Nijel Pack is making that kind of money, what is the next Holmgren going to get?

[Chicat]

In what world does that company benefit from paying that guy that sort of money? It’s Miami basketball, nobody gives a fuck. Nobody even heard of him u til he entered the portal and they’ll forget about him tomorrow now.

I’m guessing this will give them access to the football team. Call it the cover charge.

[Dave]

Choo nails it again! I am dying laughing.

[YoDeFoe]

In what world does that company benefit from paying that guy that sort of money? It’s Miami basketball, nobody gives a fuck. Nobody even heard of him u til he entered the portal and they’ll forget about him tomorrow now.

It's a billionaire from Miami throwing money at the basketball team because he can.

I wonder how long term this kind of "investment" will be moving forward... feels like the fun of it will peter out here soon as most teams aren't "successful" enough to warrant this level of spending, and turnover is too frequent to enjoy these kids for more than the few months to a couple of years that they're on the team.

[TheCat]

Chump change. The Ohio State fourth string QB got what was estimated at approx $2M after he left hs in Texas early (because they don't allow money to hs students for NIL in Texas) . Didn't play at OSU and now transferred from the OSU to Texas for what is estimated at another couple of million. Here is part pf an article that talks about the Ohio State piece:
"I don't know if Ewers was one of the highest paid college football players in the NIL era. But I feel pretty confident in stating he was among the highest paid fourth-string quarterbacks.

Back in September, I wrote about Ewers, right after he signed a $1.4 million dollar NIL for autographs and other memorabilia. That doesn't include a significant deal with Holy Kombucha (which reportedly included equity in the company) or the F250 truck he scored from a local Columbus car dealership (one that reportedly aired commercials including Ewers during the Big Ten championship game....after Ewers announced he was leaving Ohio State).

There's a non-trivial chance Ewers brought in more than $1 million for every snap he played at Ohio State."

NIL will doom most teams ability to compete with the big boys. Nick Saban says the NIL deal for a qb at Alabama is $2m which he has mentioned multiple times while recruiting and acting surprised.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Its going to be very difficult for the UA to compete with this kind of NIL $$$ being thrown around

We can compete, see Boswell and Lewis...but I wouldn't want to compete for Nijel Pack. One reason this is what it is has to do with the fact Miami has to put more $ out because its resources otherwise aren't at the level that UK, Duke and Arizona are.

[Chicat]

Are people who have this theory that we won’t be able to compete for recruits in the new landscape of the NIL basing it on UA not having local businesses who want to be aligned with our athletic programs (companies like Hughes Federal Credit Union, Nextiva, Carondelet Medical)?

Or wealthy alums (like people named Lowell, Stephens, Click, Jefferson)?

Or because back in the day when paying players was an under the table thing, we couldn’t get those really high profile recruits that took a lot of resources (like a Deandre Ayton, Aaron Gordon, or Stanley Johnson)?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Are people who have this theory that we won’t be able to compete for recruits in the new landscape of the NIL basing it on UA not having local businesses who want to be aligned with our athletic programs (companies like Hughes Federal Credit Union, Nextiva, Carondelet Medical)?

Or wealthy alums (like people named Lowell, Stephens, Click, Jefferson)?

Or because back in the day when paying players was an under the table thing, we couldn’t get those really high profile recruits that took a lot of resources (like a Deandre Ayton, Aaron Gordon, or Stanley Johnson)?

No idea. I don't understand it.

Nijel Pack isn't who I'd worry about. People got mad at Akinjo for allegedly being ball dominant, so there's no reason to sweat a 6'0 guy who takes 7 shots for every assist.

[YoDeFoe]

Are people who have this theory that we won’t be able to compete for recruits in the new landscape of the NIL basing it on UA not having local businesses who want to be aligned with our athletic programs (companies like Hughes Federal Credit Union, Nextiva, Carondelet Medical)?

Or wealthy alums (like people named Lowell, Stephens, Click, Jefferson)?

Or because back in the day when paying players was an under the table thing, we couldn’t get those really high profile recruits that took a lot of resources (like a Deandre Ayton, Aaron Gordon, or Stanley Johnson)?

I don't know what the NIL funding sources look like moving forward.

Individual companies can't justify six figures on an athlete that isn't part of the national conversation (e.g. lottery pick, All American, social media star). And even then, there needs to be a synergy between the audience of that athlete and the customer base that the company is targeting.

Right now we're in what feels like a "I bought a yacht" stage where billionaires are throwing cash at athletes for the fun of being involved in the program and in the media. But does the interest hold up where every year they're okay plunking down $400k on a single athlete who doesn't meaningfully benefit their business? You bought the yacht and took some photos and a couple cruises around the harbor, but now you're paying for the slip and upkeep and god dang that gas and crew bill every time you take it out... shoot, do you really need a yacht?

It just seems unsustainable beyond a small group of guys who can afford to have this expensive of a hobby, at which point the level of competition for non-marquee players diminishes and the level of pay thereby decreases.

Are we seeing the peak of NIL money now? Or does the moment continue?

[Beachcat97]

Word is that Tshiebwe got 2 million to stay at UK.

https://247sports.com/Article/John-Cali ... 186580528/

[Spaceman Spiff]

Word is that Tshiebwe got 2 million to stay at UK.

Whose word?

If this is one of the "Texas A&M spent 30 mil on their incoming recruiting class" rumors, count me out. The legit NIL deals, no one has trouble reporting them.

YDF is correct and it's the NCAA's fault. I know I beat this horse, but the NCAA's decision to fight tooth and nail until the Supreme Court destroyed their system created this wild west atmosphere.

If the NCAA had phased out NIL restrictions along with incoming regulation, perhaps things would have gone a bit better.

[dmjcat]

Word is that Tshiebwe got 2 million to stay at UK.

Whose word?

If this is one of the "Texas A&M spent 30 mil on their incoming recruiting class" rumors, count me out. The legit NIL deals, no one has trouble reporting them.

YDF is correct and it's the NCAA's fault. I know I beat this horse, but the NCAA's decision to fight tooth and nail until the Supreme Court destroyed their system created this wild west atmosphere.

If the NCAA had phased out NIL restrictions along with incoming regulation, perhaps things would have gone a bit better.

It was reported by Goodman, and nobody is disputing the number.

As I have stated repeatedly, there is no way the UA is going to be able to compete with that kind of $$$

[SabinoDrifter]

Word is that Tshiebwe got 2 million to stay at UK.

Whose word?

If this is one of the "Texas A&M spent 30 mil on their incoming recruiting class" rumors, count me out. The legit NIL deals, no one has trouble reporting them.

YDF is correct and it's the NCAA's fault. I know I beat this horse, but the NCAA's decision to fight tooth and nail until the Supreme Court destroyed their system created this wild west atmosphere.

If the NCAA had phased out NIL restrictions along with incoming regulation, perhaps things would have gone a bit better.

Yeah, I strongly consider the source of who is reporting these alleged figures. Are they actually verifying it's $2M or is that the "going rate" for the flavor of the month (hey, maybe eegees wants to throw around some cash).

As someone who works in a regulated industry, I'm extremely skeptical of the NIL figures being reported in the media. I can prove the rookie pay scale in the NBA, I can't prove Texas A&M spent $30M on their incoming recruiting class because there is no freaking way that's getting to the players.

I forget where I saw it today, but the NCAA released some transparency data about the transfer portal and some smart reporter (read not Jeff Goodman) said something along the lines of 4 out of 10 players entering the portal end up losing their aid. The system they designed to help young men and women isn't helping young men and women. SHOCKING!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Word is that Tshiebwe got 2 million to stay at UK.

Whose word?

If this is one of the "Texas A&M spent 30 mil on their incoming recruiting class" rumors, count me out. The legit NIL deals, no one has trouble reporting them.

YDF is correct and it's the NCAA's fault. I know I beat this horse, but the NCAA's decision to fight tooth and nail until the Supreme Court destroyed their system created this wild west atmosphere.

If the NCAA had phased out NIL restrictions along with incoming regulation, perhaps things would have gone a bit better.

It was reported by Goodman, and nobody is disputing the number.

As I have stated repeatedly, there is no way the UA is going to be able to compete with that kind of $$$

I already had an identical argument in the football forum with you, and I'm not particularly hot on doing it again, so I'll spare my disagreement.

[dmjcat]

Word is that Tshiebwe got 2 million to stay at UK.

Whose word?

If this is one of the "Texas A&M spent 30 mil on their incoming recruiting class" rumors, count me out. The legit NIL deals, no one has trouble reporting them.

YDF is correct and it's the NCAA's fault. I know I beat this horse, but the NCAA's decision to fight tooth and nail until the Supreme Court destroyed their system created this wild west atmosphere.

If the NCAA had phased out NIL restrictions along with incoming regulation, perhaps things would have gone a bit better.

It was reported by Goodman, and nobody is disputing the number.

As I have stated repeatedly, there is no way the UA is going to be able to compete with that kind of $$$

I already had an identical argument in the football forum with you, and I'm not particularly hot on doing it again, so I'll spare my disagreement.

Yet you just disagreed............again

When we start forking over $400,00/year for the Nigel Packs of the world or 7 figures like UK is doing I will admit I am wrong.

I don't see it happening at the UA.

[TheCat]

Are people who have this theory that we won’t be able to compete for recruits in the new landscape of the NIL basing it on UA not having local businesses who want to be aligned with our athletic programs (companies like Hughes Federal Credit Union, Nextiva, Carondelet Medical)?

Or wealthy alums (like people named Lowell, Stephens, Click, Jefferson)?

Or because back in the day when paying players was an under the table thing, we couldn’t get those really high profile recruits that took a lot of resources (like a Deandre Ayton, Aaron Gordon, or Stanley Johnson)?

I think it is because of what deals have been signed to date. DT has a ice cream flavor named after him for a few months while a qb that went to OSU and didn't play and now transferred to Texas has about $4M. I have not seen any large PAC 12 deals announced in bball yet. Maybe I just missed them. I know that Heeke was doing something about $5K per athlete.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yeah, I strongly consider the source of who is reporting these alleged figures. Are they actually verifying it's $2M or is that the "going rate" for the flavor of the month (hey, maybe eegees wants to throw around some cash).

As someone who works in a regulated industry, I'm extremely skeptical of the NIL figures being reported in the media. I can prove the rookie pay scale in the NBA, I can't prove Texas A&M spent $30M on their incoming recruiting class because there is no freaking way that's getting to the players.

I forget where I saw it today, but the NCAA released some transparency data about the transfer portal and some smart reporter (read not Jeff Goodman) said something along the lines of 4 out of 10 players entering the portal end up losing their aid. The system they designed to help young men and women isn't helping young men and women. SHOCKING!

Yeah, I mean 2 mil could mean much less if there are incentives he has to meet to get $. Or it could be over a span of years.

It matters who gives $ too. If Tshibwe is getting 2 mil from Foot Locker, this isn't a Kentucky thing.

It's not like Arizona doesn't have wealthy alums, tradition or visibility. I don't buy the narrative we're somehow incapable vs other schools. We just don't have any returners worth 2 mil.

I think your portal stat is that about 40% of kids don't find a new home. They void their old scholly, they don't get a new one. You still have to make good decisions.

[Chicat]

Word is that Tshiebwe got 2 million to stay at UK.

Whose word?

If this is one of the "Texas A&M spent 30 mil on their incoming recruiting class" rumors, count me out. The legit NIL deals, no one has trouble reporting them.

YDF is correct and it's the NCAA's fault. I know I beat this horse, but the NCAA's decision to fight tooth and nail until the Supreme Court destroyed their system created this wild west atmosphere.

If the NCAA had phased out NIL restrictions along with incoming regulation, perhaps things would have gone a bit better.

It was reported by Goodman, and nobody is disputing the number.

As I have stated repeatedly, there is no way the UA is going to be able to compete with that kind of $$$

I already had an identical argument in the football forum with you, and I'm not particularly hot on doing it again, so I'll spare my disagreement.

Yet you just disagreed............again

When we start forking over $400,00/year for the Nigel Packs of the world or 7 figures like UK is doing I will admit I am wrong.

I don't see it happening at the UA.

Why not?

You keep saying this but it’s literally nothing more than your feeling. You could be right, but the sun shines on a dog’s ass every once in a while too. Doesn’t mean you have anything other than rank pessimism and a penchant for being a doomsayer.

We don’t want to fork over $400k for a Nigel Pack. Neither did Duke, Kentucky, Kansas or any other halfway decent program. You want us to act like Miami basketball and beg millionaires to throw six figures at kids that wouldn’t even start just to prove that we can and will? Laughable.

[TheCat]

It isn't Pack as I had never heard of him before. Would C-Lo come back for $2M? My guess is yes. Not saying we can't but there are many schools that can beat us if they want. What about an NIL deal with Nike over 10 years?

[Spaceman Spiff]

It isn't Pack as I had never heard of him before. Would C-Lo come back for $2M? My guess is yes. Not saying we can't but there are many schools that can beat us if they want. What about an NIL deal with Nike over 10 years?

Discussing Tshibwe sort of fails for me without a few factors being considered or known. First, he's a rarity in being a returning national player of the year at a blue blood and high profile program...yet also having only mid-late second round NBA draft projections. That's a perfect storm to maximize NIL potential while minimizing the chance he could make more in the NBA.

Koloko has less college earning potential via NIL by not being a returning all american, let alone NPOY, but also significantly better draft stock.

Next is where the NIL money is coming from. Pack and Tshibwe both...every program, including Arizona, has boosters that can drop big money here or there for a single guy if they want. Is that what happened for Tshibwe or is it more like Dr. Pepper and DJ Uiagalelei, where it's driven by national profile? There's a degree to which it could be apples and oranges.

One final note, Robbins notoriously divided boosters (according to the insiders here, notably Cole and Jeannie Davis) with the Miller firing right as NIL was ramping up and we could use some booster support. Just FWIW.

[Chicat]

The facilities arms race is over. Every school has nice places to work out. Lots of schools have flat screens in the locker room. And it is of no benefit to a kid you’re asking to move far away from home who will need money in his pocket and maybe some to send back to his family.

If there is a purposeful effort on the part of Heeke and Robbins and their staffs to secure NIL deals for our athletes, it will happen. If they decide to leave it up to the individual athletes, yes, we won’t be able to compete. But these are the same folks who convinced individual donors to financially help complete all those awesome new buildings and structures on campus. They can’t convince them to put a star athlete in some commercials or to set them up with business relationships that net them NIL money?

We need to stop begging donors to continue to upgrade a football stadium that very few people complain about because very few people actually go to the games and we need to hook up our current and future athletes with NIL deals.

It’s not whether we can or can’t compete. It’s whether we will, or will not.

[Beachcat97]

We need to stop begging donors to continue to upgrade a football stadium that very few people complain about because very few people actually go to the games and we need to hook up our current and future athletes with NIL deals.

It’s not whether we can or can’t compete. It’s whether we will, or will not.

This is kind of what I was getting at a while back about how the NIL's full impact won't be known for a few years. We're already seeing programs throw unbelievable amounts of cash at players, some that make sense (Tshiebwe), others less so (Pack).

But eventually, we're going to see the programs with the deepest pockets (and I include AZ hoops in that group) develop long-term, strategic approaches to the NIL, which can be presented to recruits when they're still in HS. Koloko started college before the NIL was a thing, but the next Koloko will begin his college career fully aware of his opportunities to earn money as an NCAA athlete.

Given the earning potential of AZ hoops, and given Tommy Lloyd's recruiting savvy, I do think we'll eventually emerge as a major player in the NIL era. Just have to be patient.

[Spaceman Spiff]

But eventually, we're going to see the programs with the deepest pockets (and I include AZ hoops in that group) develop long-term, strategic approaches to the NIL, which can be presented to recruits when they're still in HS.

The only thing that would concern me about this...I'd say we should have been developing this Day 1 when NIL prohibitions got dropped.

This is the epitome of an issue where its importance in recruiting was obvious the second it happened. If there wasn't an immediate inclusion of NIL opportunity as a selling point, I have to wonder what we were doing.

Program wide coordinated management to maximize players ability to explore and manage NIL opportunities should have been a priority from the get go. TBH, each school should have personnel specifically devoted to managing NIL opportunity and compliance.

[Jefe]

Did he think he was better than DT?

[ChooChooCat]

Did he think he was better than DT?

Huh? No.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Did he think he was better than DT?

Aiken is my pick for the strangest Arizona experience ever. Commits to Miller the night before Miller is fired, then decommits. Recommits to Lloyd after Lloyd strikes out on Arthur Kaluma.

Plays 7 games as a backup, then the thing happens and he is literally erased from existence in Arizona basketball with zero comment.

Now he's a grad transfer and a guard.

[Merkin]

Who would take him? I obviously don't know any details, although some here do, but seems like you are risking a scholarship on someone who may bail on you like he did on Arizona.

[Postmaster]

Did he think he was better than DT?

Aiken is my pick for the strangest Arizona experience ever. Commits to Miller the night before Miller is fired, then decommits. Recommits to Lloyd after Lloyd strikes out on Arthur Kaluma.

Plays 7 games as a backup, then the thing happens and he is literally erased from existence in Arizona basketball with zero comment.

Now he's a grad transfer and a guard.

Wasn’t there an issue with him not getting in to WSU or them not having the degree he was looking for?

[Beachcat97]

But eventually, we're going to see the programs with the deepest pockets (and I include AZ hoops in that group) develop long-term, strategic approaches to the NIL, which can be presented to recruits when they're still in HS.

The only thing that would concern me about this...I'd say we should have been developing this Day 1 when NIL prohibitions got dropped.

This is the epitome of an issue where its importance in recruiting was obvious the second it happened. If there wasn't an immediate inclusion of NIL opportunity as a selling point, I have to wonder what we were doing.

Program wide coordinated management to maximize players ability to explore and manage NIL opportunities should have been a priority from the get go. TBH, each school should have personnel specifically devoted to managing NIL opportunity and compliance.

[UAEebs86]

But eventually, we're going to see the programs with the deepest pockets (and I include AZ hoops in that group) develop long-term, strategic approaches to the NIL, which can be presented to recruits when they're still in HS.

The only thing that would concern me about this...I'd say we should have been developing this Day 1 when NIL prohibitions got dropped.

This is the epitome of an issue where its importance in recruiting was obvious the second it happened. If there wasn't an immediate inclusion of NIL opportunity as a selling point, I have to wonder what we were doing.

Program wide coordinated management to maximize players ability to explore and manage NIL opportunities should have been a priority from the get go. TBH, each school should have personnel specifically devoted to managing NIL opportunity and compliance.

I tried in vain to get the actual tweet to appear. Still struggling with the functionality of this site. It's sad.

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status ... et%3DTweet

Remove the question mark and everything after it. If you ever forget how to do it, click quote on a post that did it correctly.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Did he think he was better than DT?

Aiken is my pick for the strangest Arizona experience ever. Commits to Miller the night before Miller is fired, then decommits. Recommits to Lloyd after Lloyd strikes out on Arthur Kaluma.

Plays 7 games as a backup, then the thing happens and he is literally erased from existence in Arizona basketball with zero comment.

Now he's a grad transfer and a guard.

Wasn’t there an issue with him not getting in to WSU or them not having the degree he was looking for?

Yeah, I forgot that part. He committed there and then they wouldn't let him enroll as a grad. Thus putting him back on the market for when we missed on Kaluma.

[Postmaster]

Does anyone actually know if there were some possible illegal actions by Aiken?
Or was that all speculation?

[RichardCranium]

How about we create our very own crypto-coin to feed into NIL offers?

How Anyone Can Make Their Own Digital Currency

[dmjcat]

[Beachcat97]

Don't think we're getting Scheierman.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Don't think we're getting Scheierman.

You have to worry when Baylor offers Baylor.

[Alieberman]

Props to Arizona for keeping the Aiken thing out of the public this entire time.

Also props to Tucson media for being completely incompetent

[UAEebs86]

Props to Arizona for keeping the Aiken thing out of the public this entire time.

Also props to Tucson media for being completely incompetent

You'd better watch it - Columbo will come after you.

[ChooChooCat]

[RaisingArizona]

Don't think we're getting Scheierman.

You have to worry when Baylor offers Baylor.

Baylor on Baylor on crime? Is Dave Bliss involved in the recruitment?

[Spaceman Spiff]

It was a fun 6 hours, full of potential and possibility.

[Dave]

Does Arkansas have a unlimited supply of scholarships?

[Beachcat97]

He's going to Kentucky. Just a feeling.

[YoDeFoe]

Does Arkansas have a unlimited supply of scholarships?

Musselman’s guiding principal is to recruit over his current guys whenever possible.