Conference Realignment

[dovecanyoncat]

Conference Realignment talk bores the fuck out of me.

I feel like Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day". The same arguments keep getting rehashed every day.


Welcome to fan boards during the off season.

Some guys might not remember this as typical of the off season but I sure as heckfire remember it.

[ChooChooCat]

Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?

Streaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.

Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.

[ChooChooCat]

And waiting for the SEC and B1G to act doesn't cost us anything, unless you think joining the BIG 12 today has more value than potentially joining it in a few years, after we know what else is going on.

That's exactly what I believe yes.

I don't see a point in sticking with the Pac-10 for another 5-6 year TV deal just to be as unstable then as we are today. Like you love to say, the Big 12 is going nowhere. They are the definition of stability that the Pac-10 is not at this moment or in 5-6 years or whatever. If we stay in the Pac-10 we're just dragging our feet and playing in a conference with absolute garbage dog shit basketball and whatever football. I don't know why anybody is excited for that.

[AzCatFan2]

And waiting for the SEC and B1G to act doesn't cost us anything, unless you think joining the BIG 12 today has more value than potentially joining it in a few years, after we know what else is going on.

That's exactly what I believe yes.

I don't see a point in sticking with the Pac-10 for another 5-6 year TV deal just to be as unstable then as we are today. Like you love to say, the Big 12 is going nowhere. They are the definition of stability that the Pac-10 is not at this moment or in 5-6 years or whatever. If we stay in the Pac-10 we're just dragging our feet and playing in a conference with absolute garbage dog shit basketball and whatever football. I don't know why anybody is excited for that.

How is the BIG 12 stable? The SEC and B1G are stable. So is the ACC, because of the huge buyout on their contract that doesn't seem like it can be broken. But the BIG 12 and PAC? We are in the same boat.

Both conferences lost their most valuable schools. The only difference is the BIG 12 grabbed some G5 schools recently. If that equals stability, then SDSU, Fresno, UNLV and Boise are there to make us stable if we want.

But I think we agree there is little value in adding too many G5 schools. And the reality is, as soon as the B1G or SEC come calling for any PAC school, the school would be gone in a heartbeat. So would any BIG 12 school.

The only reason why the PAC may seem a tad bit more unstable is between the PAC and BIG 12, the PAC has more valuable properties at the top in Stanford, UW, and Oregon. All the reason to stay with them, even if it's short term. Again, if the SEC does decide to expand west, UW and Oregon will need partners.

Other reasons to stay in the PAC include more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12, less travel costs in the PAC, as we would be staying west, instead of trips to W. Virginia, C. Florida, and Cincy. This goes for all sports, not just football. And speaking of all sports, our recruiting tends to be more PAC state centric than BIG 12.

The BIG 12 should be our Plan B. And if this is our destination, there is no guarantee the BIG 12 will look the same. If the top remaining PAC teams go B1G, and the SEC expands in response, some of the top remaining BIG 12 schools are likely SEC targets.

[ChooChooCat]

How is the BIG 12 stable? The SEC and B1G are stable. So is the ACC, because of the huge buyout on their contract that doesn't seem like it can be broken. But the BIG 12 and PAC? We are in the same boat.

I literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.

The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.

The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.

[CardiacCats97]

Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?

Streaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.

Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.

Why can’t bars stream?

[ChooChooCat]

Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?

Streaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.

Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.

Why can’t bars stream?

I suppose they can hook up Fire Sticks to all their TVs and play games on Amazon and such. It's easier for a bar to set up numerous TVs off one satellite than it is for a bar to stream a game on numerous TVs. Better have a damn good router. I'm dying to see how bars handle Thursday night football now that it's exclusively on Amazon.

[AzCatFan2]

How is the BIG 12 stable? The SEC and B1G are stable. So is the ACC, because of the huge buyout on their contract that doesn't seem like it can be broken. But the BIG 12 and PAC? We are in the same boat.

I literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.

The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.

The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.

So your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.

[ChooChooCat]

How is the BIG 12 stable? The SEC and B1G are stable. So is the ACC, because of the huge buyout on their contract that doesn't seem like it can be broken. But the BIG 12 and PAC? We are in the same boat.

I literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.

The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.

The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.

So your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.

We're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.

The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA.

There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?

If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.

[CardiacCats97]

Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?

Streaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.

Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.

Why can’t bars stream?

I suppose they can hook up Fire Sticks to all their TVs and play games on Amazon and such. It's easier for a bar to set up numerous TVs off one satellite than it is for a bar to stream a game on numerous TVs. Better have a damn good router. I'm dying to see how bars handle Thursday night football now that it's exclusively on Amazon.

Feels like a problem someone could get very rich solving.

[ChooChooCat]

Not sure why you think streaming equals less revenue and people watching. That’s odd to me. You think Alabama fans are going to decide not to Roll Tide because they have to find the game online?

Streaming doesn't help expand your brand. Last I checked Alabama football has zero branding issues.

Better rule out going to a bar to watch your team play most of its games if streaming is the go to option.

Why can’t bars stream?

I suppose they can hook up Fire Sticks to all their TVs and play games on Amazon and such. It's easier for a bar to set up numerous TVs off one satellite than it is for a bar to stream a game on numerous TVs. Better have a damn good router. I'm dying to see how bars handle Thursday night football now that it's exclusively on Amazon.

Feels like a problem someone could get very rich solving.

Did we just agree to become business partners?

[AzCatFan2]

How is the BIG 12 stable? The SEC and B1G are stable. So is the ACC, because of the huge buyout on their contract that doesn't seem like it can be broken. But the BIG 12 and PAC? We are in the same boat.

I literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.

The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.

The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.

So your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.

We're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.

The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?

If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.

We have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.

And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.

[ChooChooCat]

How is the BIG 12 stable? The SEC and B1G are stable. So is the ACC, because of the huge buyout on their contract that doesn't seem like it can be broken. But the BIG 12 and PAC? We are in the same boat.

I literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.

The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.

The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.

So your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.

We're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.

The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?

If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.

We have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.

And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.

Our recruiting pipelines were in Los Angeles and they're never coming back. Yawn to the rest of your post.

[AzCatFan2]

I literally ignored your entire post outside of this, because TLDNR.

The Big 12 is stable because all their schools are located in smaller markets that the B1G and SEC are not eyeing any time soon. Their membership is secure and they will have numbers (membership-wise). Even in the theoretical universe where the PAC falls apart and the Big12 adds the 4 corners and UW/Oregon, they'd still be stable, because even if they lose UW/Oregon or if the B1G is feeling froggy also Colorado/Utah, the Big 12 would still have the numbers to continue on. The PAC is dead the second one school leaves let alone two and even if it isn't officially dead, the conference is nothing more than a MWC+ at that point. The ACC is stable until 2036 and after that they are a dead conference as well. We all know it's coming for both the ACC & Pac-12.

The Pac12 and the Big12 are not in the same boat. The Pac12 is going to be raided and soon. The Big12 is not. This is not hard. You know every thing I just said is fact. Quit being dense.

So your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.

We're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.

The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?

If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.

We have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.

And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.

Our recruiting pipelines were in Los Angeles and they're never coming back. Yawn to the rest of your post.

Looking at the football roster only, I see kids from N. Cal, SLC, Denver, and Portland. A few from Houston and Florida, but more from non LA PAC areas.

And I'm not including San Diego. We flipped a top women's basketball recruit from UCLA. She is from San Diego. So home games for her are either 2 1/2 hour drives, or 6 hour drives. And away games during conference season? Max flight 3 hours, with all games in the MTN or PAC time zone versus 3 hour flights minimum, and potential early games on the east coast.

Speaking of travel, it's unlikely the BIG 12 TV contract, if larger than the PAC, will be large enough to offset our increased travel costs in the BIG 12. A BIG 12 invite means far trips to Orlando, W. Virginia, Cincinnati, and others.

[Captcarnage]

The only way we get a SEC or B1G invite is to agree to be in a western pod with all our home games at night. Not impossible but not probable either. PAC or BIG 12 is late night for us already with a game or 2 exception each year currently. If we dont go to BIG12 we run a big risk in my opinion, of not having a seat when the music stops. Then we are relegated to MTN 2.0. Late night AZ vs Fresno state doesnt move the needle.

[Fendicent4ever]

For the record, I say gut the Pac 12 and bounce right now. The only rivalries I was invested in were against ASU and the LA schools. Like it or not, Arizona has much more in common with Texas than it does with Portland or Seattle. The conference is a stupid albatross that only flies in the middle of the night. Larry killed this thing and theres no iteration coming back- unless somehow SDSU and Long Beach suddenly became AAU institutions, Gonzaga invests billions into starting a football program, or Northridge decides its done being a commuter college. All of those are about as likely as an SEC "Double West" hypothetical right now.

Recruiting pipelines I have some thoughts on. Some other rambling as well.

1) Being first movers to a real conference might open up doors in southern California that staying in the Super-MWC (Super Pac?) will NEVER do for this university. The blue chippers will always leave sure, but the good LA, Conejo valley, San Diego, OC kids (not to mention bay area) are ripe for the picking if its a team in a league that plays in front of people during the occasional daylight hour in front of a great crowd in Stillwater, Ft. Worth, Morgantown, or Houston vs going to play in the mausoleums that will be Berkley and the Palouse.

2) Arizonas best teams since I've been a fan were in 2014, 2008 and 2009- before Gronk was hurt and may or may not have quit. The spine of that 14 side was Stoops guys- including tackles from Chicagoland, Mayno from norcal. The earlier iterations? Lots of Californians sure, but a lot of Bedenbaugh kids from Dupage county, Nick Foles from the wine and cheese district of Austin, Criner from Vegas, and tons of Texans. Look down our glue guys- X Kelley, Sterling Lewis, Terrell Turner, Donald Horton, Corey Hall, Michael Johnson, Yaniv Barnett, Ronnie Palmer. All guys who'd have been the best player on any Rich Rod defense (TT aside)- to say nothing of Sumlin. I'd much rather stock the pond with Desoto, Oak Cliff, Cypress and Tarrant County dudes than whatever it was that we've been doing since about Thanksgiving 2011. I say all of that to say, maybe our pipelines as they currently exist are tapped or possibly overrated?

3) Arizona historically has been a destination school. Idk what it looks like now but when I got there yes the majority were in-staters and Californians (like myself) but there were so many midwesterners that we had an orientation in Chicago. Lots of Bergen County and Plano kids in the Greek system. I can see a version of U of A flourishing in the Big 12. While its not the SEC or the Big 10 it dumps on what we are doing now- we are the exotic brand in the conference. Suddenly all those students more athletic teammates are watching Arizona games with them growing up. Thats a bigger win than losing at UW at 3AM EST or winning a road game against Stanford in front of 700 people.

4) I HATE Pac-12 after dark. Can't emphasize that enough. Pre Pac-12 network you could watch games in groups. Last 6-7 seasons have been spent watching via Sling Blue. Pac 12 after dark is MACtion with some art deco features.

5) My parents moved to New Mexico about 17 years ago. The foods great, and I dig the Pit, but god that state blows. I would do anything I could not to end up with my alma mater turning into a glorified UNM or heaven forbid a conference foe of the Lobos. You want to hang around and wait on the Pac? Thats the most likely hand you're looking at down the line. The Big 12 is at least a punchers chance. While it's not a home run, it's good teams that put guys in the NFL, play in front of the odd sellout, and that people watch on TV nationally.

6) One final metaphor. Say this is the rust belt in 1970. While you will never be Austin or Miami, you're only other options as a city are Buffalo or Columbus. Which would you take?

I'm not delusional enough to be bullish on our chances, but this is how I would play it if I was Bobbins/MMD or on the ABOR.

[ChooChooCat]

The only way we get a SEC or B1G invite is to agree to be in a western pod with all our home games at night. Not impossible but not probable either. PAC or BIG 12 is late night for us already with a game or 2 exception each year currently. If we dont go to BIG12 we run a big risk in my opinion, of not having a seat when the music stops. Then we are relegated to MTN 2.0. Late night AZ vs Fresno state doesnt move the needle.

Yep, bingo.

[ChooChooCat]

For the record, I say gut the Pac 12 and bounce right now. The only rivalries I was invested in were against ASU and the LA schools. Like it or not, Arizona has much more in common with Texas than it does with Portland or Seattle. The conference is a stupid albatross that only flies in the middle of the night. Larry killed this thing and theres no iteration coming back- unless somehow SDSU and Long Beach suddenly became AAU institutions, Gonzaga invests billions into starting a football program, or Northridge decides its done being a commuter college. All of those are about as likely as an SEC "Double West" hypothetical right now.

Recruiting pipelines I have some thoughts on. Some other rambling as well.

1) Being first movers to a real conference might open up doors in southern California that staying in the Super-MWC (Super Pac?) will NEVER do for this university. The blue chippers will always leave sure, but the good LA, Conejo valley, San Diego, OC kids (not to mention bay area) are ripe for the picking if its a team in a league that plays in front of people during the occasional daylight hour in front of a great crowd in Stillwater, Ft. Worth, Morgantown, or Houston vs going to play in the mausoleums that will be Berkley and the Palouse.

2) Arizonas best teams since I've been a fan were in 2014, 2008 and 2009- before Gronk was hurt and may or may not have quit. The spine of that 14 side was Stoops guys- including tackles from Chicagoland, Mayno from norcal. The earlier iterations? Lots of Californians sure, but a lot of Bedenbaugh kids from Dupage county, Nick Foles from the wine and cheese district of Austin, Criner from Vegas, and tons of Texans. Look down our glue guys- X Kelley, Sterling Lewis, Terrell Turner, Donald Horton, Corey Hall, Michael Johnson, Yaniv Barnett, Ronnie Palmer. All guys who'd have been the best player on any Rich Rod defense (TT aside)- to say nothing of Sumlin. I'd much rather stock the pond with Desoto, Oak Cliff, Cypress and Tarrant County dudes than whatever it was that we've been doing since about Thanksgiving 2011. I say all of that to say, maybe our pipelines as they currently exist are tapped or possibly overrated?

3) Arizona historically has been a destination school. Idk what it looks like now but when I got there yes the majority were in-staters and Californians (like myself) but there were so many midwesterners that we had an orientation in Chicago. Lots of Bergen County and Plano kids in the Greek system. I can see a version of U of A flourishing in the Big 12. While its not the SEC or the Big 10 it dumps on what we are doing now- we are the exotic brand in the conference. Suddenly all those students more athletic teammates are watching Arizona games with them growing up. Thats a bigger win than losing at UW at 3AM EST or winning a road game against Stanford in front of 700 people.

4) I HATE Pac-12 after dark. Can't emphasize that enough. Pre Pac-12 network you could watch games in groups. Last 6-7 seasons have been spent watching via Sling Blue. Pac 12 after dark is MACtion with some art deco features.

5) My parents moved to New Mexico about 17 years ago. The foods great, and I dig the Pit, but god that state blows. I would do anything I could not to end up with my alma mater turning into a glorified UNM or heaven forbid a conference foe of the Lobos. You want to hang around and wait on the Pac? Thats the most likely hand you're looking at down the line. The Big 12 is at least a punchers chance. While it's not a home run, it's good teams that put guys in the NFL, play in front of the odd sellout, and that people watch on TV nationally.

6) One final metaphor. Say this is the rust belt in 1970. While you will never be Austin or Miami, you're only other options as a city are Buffalo or Columbus. Which would you take?

I'm not delusional enough to be bullish on our chances, but this is how I would play it if I was Bobbins/MMD or on the ABOR.

Also a bingo. Nailed it all man.

[ChooChooCat]

So your argument is essentially just accept we'll be in a minor league, head to the BIG 12 now, and abandon all hope something better may come along. Despite the fact that if we wait, the minor league will still be there and take us with open arms.

We're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.

The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?

If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.

We have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.

And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.

Our recruiting pipelines were in Los Angeles and they're never coming back. Yawn to the rest of your post.

Looking at the football roster only, I see kids from N. Cal, SLC, Denver, and Portland. A few from Houston and Florida, but more from non LA PAC areas.

And I'm not including San Diego. We flipped a top women's basketball recruit from UCLA. She is from San Diego. So home games for her are either 2 1/2 hour drives, or 6 hour drives. And away games during conference season? Max flight 3 hours, with all games in the MTN or PAC time zone versus 3 hour flights minimum, and potential early games on the east coast.

Speaking of travel, it's unlikely the BIG 12 TV contract, if larger than the PAC, will be large enough to offset our increased travel costs in the BIG 12. A BIG 12 invite means far trips to Orlando, W. Virginia, Cincinnati, and others.

In what world is it difficult to fly to Orlando or Cincinnati? Also there’s very little difference between a Wazzu road trip and a Morgantown road trip, look up the flight distance, it ain’t much. Either way that’s 3 road trips, not every Olympic program would have to travel to those locations every year, but you knew that.

[AzCatFan2]

We're already in a minor league now. You do know that right? If we go to the Big 12 it's not going to prevent the B1G or SEC to add us if they ever truly wanted to, which they won't during our lifetimes barring some drastic change to the status of Arizona Football or a huge market growth in the city of Tucson.

The minor league is only on the table as long as it doesn't get too big. We know the ACC is headed for death and those schools will have to find another home as well. It's far from a guarantee based on the fact we share the Arizona market and have garbage football that we'd be a no brainer add to the minor league, so if we don't play our cards right we can easily head for AA instead of AAA. There's literally no benefit to staying in the Pac-12, none. 6 more years or so to stay in a conference that is absolutely MEH in all regards about sports for what exactly? What are we gaining from that? Keeping Oregon State and Wazzu on life support a little longer? You have never given a good reply as to what the benefit of staying in the Pac-12 is outside of fricken fantasies of the B1G or SEC adding us within a decade. Give me something tangible. What's a tangible reason to stay and not move, when moving is inevitable and we can at least experience a sports league that cares about actual sports sooner?

If you say academics I will jump through the internet and smack you.

We have more alumni in PAC states versus BIG 12. We have more recruiting pipelines in PAC states versus BIG 12 states. And you're known by the company you keep, and PAC schools > BIG 12. Three reasons to stay, which I have already said.

And the biggest reason? Hope that something better comes along while we wait. If not, we lose nothing. Heck, there's probably an equal or better chance that if the B1G never expands again, the PAC adds BIG 12 schools versus the opposite. The PAC has the bigger brands already.

Our recruiting pipelines were in Los Angeles and they're never coming back. Yawn to the rest of your post.

Looking at the football roster only, I see kids from N. Cal, SLC, Denver, and Portland. A few from Houston and Florida, but more from non LA PAC areas.

And I'm not including San Diego. We flipped a top women's basketball recruit from UCLA. She is from San Diego. So home games for her are either 2 1/2 hour drives, or 6 hour drives. And away games during conference season? Max flight 3 hours, with all games in the MTN or PAC time zone versus 3 hour flights minimum, and potential early games on the east coast.

Speaking of travel, it's unlikely the BIG 12 TV contract, if larger than the PAC, will be large enough to offset our increased travel costs in the BIG 12. A BIG 12 invite means far trips to Orlando, W. Virginia, Cincinnati, and others.

In what world is it difficult to fly to Orlando or Cincinnati? Also there’s very little difference between a Wazzu road trip and a Morgantown road trip, look up the flight distance, it ain’t much. Either way that’s 3 road trips, not every Olympic program would have to travel to those locations every year, but you knew that.

Extra travel for football is negligible. But football is just one of the 19 sports we have at the UArizona. Changing conferences means farther travel for all sports. Farther travel means higher costs. If you're UCLA or USC, and are making tens of millions more in the B1G, not an issue. But if the BIG 12 and PAC payments are equal, the costs of being in the BIG 12 will be higher because of travel.

And yes, the Olympic sports are making every trip every year, but in the current BIG 12, the Bay Area schools, Utah, and Colorado are all closer to Tucson than all BIG 12 schools except BYU and TTech. And no PAC schools are as far away as Orlando, Morgantown, or Cincinnati.

There are also few, of any scenarios where Arizona ends up in the Mountain West. I honestly can't think of any realistic ones where all the dominoes fall against our favor and worst case isn't the BIG 12 for us. Anyone want to lay out the case we need to worry, go for it. But remember, Oregon and UW want no part of the BIG 12.

Last, the argument we should go to the BIG 12 now because they have a collection of less worthy schools and are therefore more stable is defeatist. We may or may not get the call from a better conference, but why not wait to see if we do before we commit ourselves to the minors. The PAC may be the minors too, but we stand the chance of promotion if we stay. Go BIG 12 now, and we relegate ourselves to a minor league for a long time. If we wait and our fate is BIG 12 anyway, so be it. But no reason not to wait and see how this all plays out.

[EastCoastCat]

You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.

The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.

The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.

But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.

[ChooChooCat]

And yes, the Olympic sports are making every trip every year

No, they don't. Another null and void take by you.

[AzCatFan2]

You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.

The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.

The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.

But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.

What's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?

And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.

[azcat49]

If the inevitable is the Big 12, why wait. Control your destiny. You can play this game both ways.

If the conclusion is the PAC is toast (like most assume) with poor expansion options(again like most assume) then waiting only brings risk, not reward.

If one thinks that the SEC could come calling to capture a western division, then waiting might have some validity but that is a huge long shot. That is the only valid argument I have heard. We need to rid ourselves of this rotting fish of a conference

[ChooChooCat]

You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.

The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.

The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.

But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.

What's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?

And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.

I have laid out the scenario.

The Pac10 continues until the B1G is ready to snatch the schools it wants, around the same time the ACC's GOR is expiring, so their remaining schools will also be looking for homes. The Big 12 would then absorb the schools remaining that it would want. Arizona, with it's pitiful football program and smaller TV market than ASU's, gets left behind and we're in the MWC or Pac12 Lite, left behind with the Beavs/Cougs and some MWC schools.

The two things driving these realignment decisions are football brands (we don't have one) and market size (we're limited there as well). To act as cocky as you are about this is as arrogant, shortsighted, and dumb as the Pac-12 university presidents have been for decades that has led us to this mess. No wonder you're so adamant on staying in the Pac-12, you're probably related to one of those dipshits.

[ChooChooCat]

If the inevitable is the Big 12, why wait. Control your destiny. You can play this game both ways.

If the conclusion is the PAC is toast (like most assume) with poor expansion options(again like most assume) then waiting only brings risk, not reward.

If one thinks that the SEC could come calling to capture a western division, then waiting might have some validity but that is a huge long shot. That is the only valid argument I have heard about not ridding ourselves of this rotting fish of a conference

The SEC will gobble up what it wants of the ACC before it ever bothers moving west, if it ever bothers moving west.

[AzCatFan2]

You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.

The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.

The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.

But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.

What's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?

And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.

I have laid out the scenario.

The Pac10 continues until the B1G is ready to snatch the schools it wants, around the same time the ACC's GOR is expiring, so their remaining schools will also be looking for homes. The Big 12 would then absorb the schools remaining that it would want. Arizona, with it's pitiful football program and smaller TV market than ASU's, gets left behind and we're in the MWC or Pac12 Lite, left behind with the Beavs/Cougs and some MWC schools.

The two things driving these realignment decisions are football brands (we don't have one) and market size (we're limited there as well). To act as cocky as you are about this is as arrogant, shortsighted, and dumb as the Pac-12 university presidents have been for decades that has led us to this mess. No wonder you're so adamant on staying in the Pac-12, you're probably related to one of those dipshits.

14 years. The ACC contract doesn't expire for another 14 years. For this scenario to play out, the B1G leaves the LA schools on an island alone for a dozen years and doesn't expand again until the ACC GOR expires.

Meanwhile, if the PAC survives this long, we will have signed two, maybe three media rights agreements in this time. No team in the PAC will want to be stuck like the ACC currently is. We will want outs.

If this were 2032 instead in 2022, then maybe your scenario would have merit, and it would be time to jump. But we have the luxury of time while the ACC GOR slowly expires. And we can assume the B1G will likely not leave the LA schools all alone for over a decade, with the closest conference rival being Nebraska.

We can sign a short term media agreement that doesn't expire until 2029, and still have 7 years before the ACC GOR expires. If we do this, and there's no movement with the SEC or B1G before this, then we should bail. But a lot can, and likely will happen in the next 14 years.

[ChooChooCat]

You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.

The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.

The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.

But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.

What's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?

And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.

I have laid out the scenario.

The Pac10 continues until the B1G is ready to snatch the schools it wants, around the same time the ACC's GOR is expiring, so their remaining schools will also be looking for homes. The Big 12 would then absorb the schools remaining that it would want. Arizona, with it's pitiful football program and smaller TV market than ASU's, gets left behind and we're in the MWC or Pac12 Lite, left behind with the Beavs/Cougs and some MWC schools.

The two things driving these realignment decisions are football brands (we don't have one) and market size (we're limited there as well). To act as cocky as you are about this is as arrogant, shortsighted, and dumb as the Pac-12 university presidents have been for decades that has led us to this mess. No wonder you're so adamant on staying in the Pac-12, you're probably related to one of those dipshits.

14 years. The ACC contract doesn't expire for another 14 years. For this scenario to play out, the B1G leaves the LA schools on an island alone for a dozen years and doesn't expand again until the ACC GOR expires.

Meanwhile, if the PAC survives this long, we will have signed two, maybe three media rights agreements in this time. No team in the PAC will want to be stuck like the ACC currently is. We will want outs.

If this were 2032 instead in 2022, then maybe your scenario would have merit, and it would be time to jump. But we have the luxury of time while the ACC GOR slowly expires. And we can assume the B1G will likely not leave the LA schools all alone for over a decade, with the closest conference rival being Nebraska.

We can sign a short term media agreement that doesn't expire until 2029, and still have 7 years before the ACC GOR expires. If we do this, and there's no movement with the SEC or B1G before this, then we should bail. But a lot can, and likely will happen in the next 14 years.

Ok fine, but what's the point? What's the end game? What's the point in sticking together in a doomed marriage? Keep a broken marriage together for another 7 years just because? By 2029 it may already be known that the big ACC schools are already bolting (we knew Texas & OU were out 3 years before they actually could leave). That leaves way more competition to fill those remaining schools that the Big12 would be willing to take on. Inaction for the sake of biding time accomplishes nothing. Make sure you have a seat at the table, always, otherwise hello MWC. I gotta tell ya, you'd suck at musical chairs.

[azgreg]

[AzCatFan2]

You wait and you run the risk of getting shut out. That is the reason you go to the B12 if invited and you don’t look back. Anyone with half a brain gets that.

The PAC is a wounded animal and I don’t see any scenario it survives as a Power 12. They have no leverage other than the late night slot which to me is only a “nice little” selling point. There are no big fish out there to reel in so if the B12 comes calling - and let’s face it it won’t be the B10 nor SEC - you say yes every day and twice on Sunday.

The LA schools ditching the PAC was a hard slap in the face what today’s college sports is all about. You better be playing hard ball if you want to keep up otherwise Arizona will be looking up at the big boys.

But I do have a backup plan. My daughter is attending Michigan in a couple of weeks so at least I will have a “big” school to root for.

What's the risk? Lay out a scenario where the worst case for Arizona isn't a BIG 12 invite?

And apologies. I should have said Olympic sports are making trips (plural) every year, too infer their travel costs go up. And not singular trip, to infer they are visiting every school in the conference every year. But the point stands, join the BIG 12 as it will stand after TX and OU leave, and travel costs go up.

I have laid out the scenario.

The Pac10 continues until the B1G is ready to snatch the schools it wants, around the same time the ACC's GOR is expiring, so their remaining schools will also be looking for homes. The Big 12 would then absorb the schools remaining that it would want. Arizona, with it's pitiful football program and smaller TV market than ASU's, gets left behind and we're in the MWC or Pac12 Lite, left behind with the Beavs/Cougs and some MWC schools.

The two things driving these realignment decisions are football brands (we don't have one) and market size (we're limited there as well). To act as cocky as you are about this is as arrogant, shortsighted, and dumb as the Pac-12 university presidents have been for decades that has led us to this mess. No wonder you're so adamant on staying in the Pac-12, you're probably related to one of those dipshits.

14 years. The ACC contract doesn't expire for another 14 years. For this scenario to play out, the B1G leaves the LA schools on an island alone for a dozen years and doesn't expand again until the ACC GOR expires.

Meanwhile, if the PAC survives this long, we will have signed two, maybe three media rights agreements in this time. No team in the PAC will want to be stuck like the ACC currently is. We will want outs.

If this were 2032 instead in 2022, then maybe your scenario would have merit, and it would be time to jump. But we have the luxury of time while the ACC GOR slowly expires. And we can assume the B1G will likely not leave the LA schools all alone for over a decade, with the closest conference rival being Nebraska.

We can sign a short term media agreement that doesn't expire until 2029, and still have 7 years before the ACC GOR expires. If we do this, and there's no movement with the SEC or B1G before this, then we should bail. But a lot can, and likely will happen in the next 14 years.

Ok fine, but what's the point? What's the end game? What's the point in sticking together in a doomed marriage? Keep a broken marriage together for another 7 years just because? By 2029 it may already be known that the big ACC schools are already bolting (we knew Texas & OU were out 3 years before they actually could leave). That leaves way more competition to fill those remaining schools that the Big12 would be willing to take on. Inaction for the sake of biding time accomplishes nothing. Make sure you have a seat at the table, always, otherwise hello MWC. I gotta tell ya, you'd suck at musical chairs.

The end game? Too many unknowns to make a proper decision today. Let's first find out how the PAC will be carved up. Who does go B1G? Will the SEC make a west coast play? Or, will there be a loose agreement between the ACC and PAC, and will this lead to top BIG 12 teams thinking PAC or ACC?

We have the luxury of time. And there may be better options available to us in the future if we wait. Move now, and we all but eliminate future options. It's why no PAC team is moving to the BIG 12 right now. Say seven years from now and there is no movement, that changes the calculus, because of when the ACC GOR ends. But today? Be patient. Maybe good things come for those who wait?

[TucsonCat]

The end game? Too many unknowns to make a proper decision today. Let's first find out how the PAC will be carved up. Who does go B1G? Will the SEC make a west coast play? Or, will there be a loose agreement between the ACC and PAC, and will this lead to top BIG 12 teams thinking PAC or ACC?

We have the luxury of time. And there may be better options available to us in the future if we wait. Move now, and we all but eliminate future options. It's why no PAC team is moving to the BIG 12 right now. Say seven years from now and there is no movement, that changes the calculus, because of when the ACC GOR ends. But today? Be patient. Maybe good things come for those who wait?
[/quote]

I’ve been reading this, increasingly painful, back and forth for the past couple of weeks, and one thing has become painfully obvious. AzCatFan2 is among those deluded individuals who actually believes that the longer, and more detailed, his posts, the more detractors he will convince to abandon their way of thinking to admit that he is correct. I’m sure that he actually believes what he is saying (I disagree), but honestly that has become secondary at this point.

It’s time to simply admit that others have their own opinions, and that you do not have to be the “winner” of a conversation. You believe what you believe. Good for you. But you don’t have to argue your point every time someone voices an opinion that is counter to your own. You are NOT going to change anyone’s mind. Period. And no one is going to change yours. Just move on until some type of resolution occurs, and then you can come back to voice your opinion on what has become the new reality. Until that happens, you are simply shouting into the wind.

[CardiacCats97]

11 years ago after not adding Texas & Oklahoma:

“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”

2022 after losing USC and UCLA and officially entering mid-tier status:

“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”

It’s the year 2034 and the ACC has announced plans to merge with the SEC while the B1G has already scooped up Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Baylor, OKState, and Utah, and the SEC/B1G postseason tournament and title game is the only championship worth anything in the eyes of football fans:

“We have the luxury of time………”

[AzCatFan2]

11 years ago after not adding Texas & Oklahoma:

“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”

2022 after losing USC and UCLA and officially entering mid-tier status:

“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”

It’s the year 2034 and the ACC has announced plans to merge with the SEC while the B1G has already scooped up Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Baylor, OKState, and Utah, and the SEC/B1G postseason tournament and title game is the only championship worth anything in the eyes of football fans:

“We have the luxury of time………”

As soon as the B1G scoops up Oregon and Washington, that changes the calculus. Times up. Now, if you think the college sports landscape isn't going to change again in the next dozen years, and it's 2034, UW and Oregon are still in the PAC, and it's announced all at once that they are finally going B1G, and the ACC and BIG 12 are merging, then you can panic. But it's highly doubtful the B1G leaves UCLA and USC all alone out west for a dozen years.

11 years ago, when we missed on OU and TX, I said, there goes our future. There simply was never any PAC future without TX and OU. Adding Utah and Colorado was only delaying the inevitable. Another huge mistake was going it alone on the PAC-12 Network. FOX owns 60% of the B1G Network, and had the PAC done the same with FOX, maybe we could have created a PAC-B1G alliance on FOX, and convinced TX and OU to look west instead of east? Ifs and buts.

Today, different story. No PAC team is moving because each is waiting to see what other avenues open up to them, knowing it will be a dozen years before ACC teams even announce they are moving. We'll likely sign a short term media contract, and if everything looks the same when that deal is expiring, or again, if Oregon and UW announce they are leaving, that changes the calculus, and it will be time to bail. Until then, we do have the luxury of time. Silly not to use it.

[ChooChooCat]

11 years ago after not adding Texas & Oklahoma:

“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”

2022 after losing USC and UCLA and officially entering mid-tier status:

“We have the luxury of time and there may be better options available to us if we wait.”

It’s the year 2034 and the ACC has announced plans to merge with the SEC while the B1G has already scooped up Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Baylor, OKState, and Utah, and the SEC/B1G postseason tournament and title game is the only championship worth anything in the eyes of football fans:

“We have the luxury of time………”

Lol this is great.

[AzCatFan2]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping? Are all 10 University Presidents and ADs just stupid and only people here are smart? Or maybe, just maybe, the PAC schools understand that with the ACC GOR, it will at least a decade before ACC teams even announce they are changing conferences. And with the SEC and B1G both standing pat at the moment, the best course of action is sign a short term contract that expires long before the ACC GOR, and reevaluate at that point?

If it's year 2034, nothing has changed between now and then, and we haven't agreed to join the BIG 12 already, that would be a mistake. But does anyone truly think the college athletics landscape won't change between now and 2034?

[ChooChooCat]

Are all 10 University Presidents and ADs just stupid.

Yes. They have proven this time and time again.

[Merkin]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping?

How come Scarlett Johansson isn't marrying me?

[EastCoastCat]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping?

How come Scarlett Johansson isn't marrying me?

How come Arizona is not in the Rose Bowl...


...oh wait.

[UAEebs86]

Are all 10 University Presidents and ADs just stupid.

Yes. They have proven this time and time again.

Wow AzCatFan2 really put that one on a tee for you.

[AzCatFan2]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping?

How come Scarlett Johansson isn't marrying me?

Maybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.

I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?

[UAEebs86]

The geniuses who let Larry Scott run this conference for 12 years are going to save us? LMFAO

[ChooChooCat]

The geniuses who let Larry Scott run this conference for 12 years are going to save us? LMFAO

The geniuses who said no to taking the Oklahoma schools when they were begging to join are going to save us. They know exactly what they're doing.

[CardiacCats97]

The geniuses who let Larry Scott run this conference for 12 years are going to save us? LMFAO

The geniuses who said no to taking the Oklahoma schools when they were begging to join are going to save us. They know exactly what they're doing.

If Michael Crow found an old lamp in a sand trap at TPC Scottsdale, rubbed the dust off it, and a genie popped out promising to grant him three wishes including being able to get his school into the SEC or B1G, he’d wish for a turkey club sandwich, then he’d wish it didn’t have mayo… and then he’d change his mind and wish for just a little mayo.

[AzCatFan2]

With the exception of Crow at ASu and the Colorado Chancellor, I think all other PAC Presidents have been appointed 2015 or later. They were smart enough to finally let Larry Scott go and not renew his contract. And University Presidents are often self-serving egomaniacs, they generally aren't stupid. The smart ones also know the value of athletics, and no University President is going to want to be on the record when the school got regulated from a P5 to G5. Wouldn't serve their ego too well.

[dovecanyoncat]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping?

How come Scarlett Johansson isn't marrying me?

Because in the conference metaphor I'm her first choice.

[ChooChooCat]

and no University President is going to want to be on the record when the school got regulated from a P5 to G5. Wouldn't serve their ego too well.

Too late.

[TucsonCat]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping?

How come Scarlett Johansson isn't marrying me?

Maybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.

I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?

Sigh… You are exactly like one of those guys that was a 5, back in college, had a girl that was a 7 that was totally into you and ready to commit to a long term, permanent, loving relationship, but you couldn’t commit because there happened to be a 10 in one of your classes that you were sure if you just gave it a little time (I mean, after all you have the advantage of youth, and all the time in the world, on your side, right?) she would eventually realize what a catch you were and snap you up. All of this only to end up never having had a chance with that 10 (and honestly even if you did, you likely would have been miserable trying to compete in that world for the rest of your life), and losing out on the 7 when she realized there were some other options available to her that were a little more in her range, and who happened to have the ability to commit. Meanwhile, you sit there and look across (hopefully not too bitterly) at the 4 you married, and try to convince yourself that you were right to wait, and that you ended up exactly where you thought you’d be.

But hey, happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, right?

[dovecanyoncat]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping?

How come Scarlett Johansson isn't marrying me?

Maybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.

I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?

Sigh… You are exactly like one of those guys that was a 5, back in college, had a girl that was a 7 that was totally into you and ready to commit to a long term, permanent, loving relationship, but you couldn’t commit because there happened to be a 10 in one of your classes that you were sure if you just gave it a little time (I mean, after all you have the advantage of youth, and all the time in the world, on your side, right?) she would eventually realize what a catch you were and snap you up. All of this only to end up never having had a chance with that 10 (and honestly even if you did, you likely would have been miserable trying to compete in that world for the rest of your life), and losing out on the 7 when she realized there were some other options available to her that were a little more in her range, and who happened to have the ability to commit. Meanwhile, you sit there and look across (hopefully not too bitterly) at the 4 you married, and try to convince yourself that you were right to wait, and that you ended up exactly where you thought you’d be.

But hey, happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, right?

So, does UofA need to MGTOW and go it's own way? Do we need to go full tilt Red Pill?

(Finally, this thread isn't quite so boring.)

[AzCatFan2]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping?

How come Scarlett Johansson isn't marrying me?

Maybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.

I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?

Sigh… You are exactly like one of those guys that was a 5, back in college, had a girl that was a 7 that was totally into you and ready to commit to a long term, permanent, loving relationship, but you couldn’t commit because there happened to be a 10 in one of your classes that you were sure if you just gave it a little time (I mean, after all you have the advantage of youth, and all the time in the world, on your side, right?) she would eventually realize what a catch you were and snap you up. All of this only to end up never having had a chance with that 10 (and honestly even if you did, you likely would have been miserable trying to compete in that world for the rest of your life), and losing out on the 7 when she realized there were some other options available to her that were a little more in her range, and who happened to have the ability to commit. Meanwhile, you sit there and look across (hopefully not too bitterly) at the 4 you married, and try to convince yourself that you were right to wait, and that you ended up exactly where you thought you’d be.

But hey, happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, right?

The BIG 12 isn't a 7 without TX and OU. It's a 5.5 or 6 at best. And they want us more than we want them. And they are willing to wait for us to strike out with the 10, and aren't going to marry anyone else before we do. That's because all the other best guys out there are contractually in a relationship until 2036.

[TucsonCat]

If anyone with half a brain knows jumping to the BIG 12 now is the best option, how come none of the PAC schools are hopping?

How come Scarlett Johansson isn't marrying me?

Maybe because she's already married and doesn't want to commit polygamy? Some good inside information to have before you ask questions.

I'd image the 10 PAC University Presidents also have some inside info that we're not privy to. But with the information we do have, the ACC GOR timeline, and the fact the B1G and SEC are currently in a holding pattern, we can still make logical, educated guesses as to why no PAC school has jumped to the BIG 12. And logically, it makes sense to sign an agreement that ends 2029 or earlier, and see what parts move between now and then, knowing that in 2029, the ACC will still have 5 years left on its GOR. They aren't moving. If in 2029, things look exactly like they do today, which is possible, but highly unlikely, then a move to the BIG 12 before any ACC schools become available will likely be the right move. But today?

Sigh… You are exactly like one of those guys that was a 5, back in college, had a girl that was a 7 that was totally into you and ready to commit to a long term, permanent, loving relationship, but you couldn’t commit because there happened to be a 10 in one of your classes that you were sure if you just gave it a little time (I mean, after all you have the advantage of youth, and all the time in the world, on your side, right?) she would eventually realize what a catch you were and snap you up. All of this only to end up never having had a chance with that 10 (and honestly even if you did, you likely would have been miserable trying to compete in that world for the rest of your life), and losing out on the 7 when she realized there were some other options available to her that were a little more in her range, and who happened to have the ability to commit. Meanwhile, you sit there and look across (hopefully not too bitterly) at the 4 you married, and try to convince yourself that you were right to wait, and that you ended up exactly where you thought you’d be.

But hey, happiness comes in all shapes and sizes, right?

The BIG 12 isn't a 7 without TX and OU. It's a 5.5 or 6 at best. And they want us more than we want them. And they are willing to wait for us to strike out with the 10, and aren't going to marry anyone else before we do. That's because all the other best guys out there are contractually in a relationship until 2036.

The fact that you included the sentence “they want us more than we want them” in response to that analogy tells me everything I will ever need to know about you, my friend. Even if they were “only” a 6, to your 5, they automatically have more options than you do. And the fact that you would be willing to treat the one that wants you (one that is more of a catch than you are) with such disdain, means that you are completely deserving of the 4 that you end up with for the rest of your life. Funny thing is, you would sit there lying to yourself and pretending that things couldn’t have ended up differently if you’d grown a spine and acted taken your future into your own hands.