Conference Realignment

[TheCatInTheHat]

Since no fan who isn't also a massive multi-million dollar donor has any influence on college athletics departments, I've been mostly sitting back waiting for events to unfold. I've said my personal preference would be to take action and move to the Big XII, but that perhaps a quick and large enough influx of media money would make it seem like less of a mistake to wait under the concept of: better the devil you know than the devil you don't know. But this is going to drag on endlessly as a negotiating ploy by the media suits, while the naive Pac-12 presidents, who've always been the biggest problem, just sit there waiting for another briefing and clinging to the Titanic's railings. I've used the business analogy that those who are afraid of change and fail to adapt often face very unhappy circumstances. Kliavkoff was tasked with hitting a home run. If we were going to get big bucks from a streamer, he'd have circled the bases already. He didn't, and we're left waiting for Godot and/or whatever scraps are tossed our way in accepting a reduced existence. Time to go. Robbins needs to enlist whatever help he needs to overcome Crow's bullshit. I'm quite sure the Big XII would accept the Arizona schools by themselves. It would more than likely set the dominoes in play. Sorry if somebody can't rub elbows with, and delude themselves into thinking they're the equivalent of, Stanford and Berkeley anymore. Instead, you have a Big XII West of Arizona, ASU, BYU, Utah, Colorado, Texas Tech, Kansas, and Kansas St. You rotate in one additional team from the Big XII East for an 8-game conference schedule. West plays East at Jerry World. The basketball tournaments are in Kansas City, baseball is at the Rangers' field in Dallas, and softball is at the WCWS stadium in OKC. It's far from a fate worse than death, and life goes on. I'm not going to play ping-pong on this, so if there's any desire to copy/paste the same months-old counter-argument again...great.

[PHXCATS]

But too much streaming……

[CardiacCats97]

If the PAC can work out a deal close to, or worth more than the current BIG12 deal, that's probably best for us.

LOL, don’t hold your breath.

[PHXCATS]

espn and fox are running everything

The PAC12 fans dug the grave for the conference years and years ago

A deal not being done is not on George K or anyone else besides fox and espn purposely moving parts around to make their program as cheap as possible. Why pay 4 conferences when you can suck out the value of the 4th and only pay 3 and still get your late window. Fuck the players fuck the fans fuck tradition fuck everything except the bottom line for fox and espm

[AzCatFan2]

Since no fan who isn't also a massive multi-million dollar donor has any influence on college athletics departments, I've been mostly sitting back waiting for events to unfold. I've said my personal preference would be to take action and move to the Big XII, but that perhaps a quick and large enough influx of media money would make it seem like less of a mistake to wait under the concept of: better the devil you know than the devil you don't know. But this is going to drag on endlessly as a negotiating ploy by the media suits, while the naive Pac-12 presidents, who've always been the biggest problem, just sit there waiting for another briefing and clinging to the Titanic's railings. I've used the business analogy that those who are afraid of change and fail to adapt often face very unhappy circumstances. Kliavkoff was tasked with hitting a home run. If we were going to get big bucks from a streamer, he'd have circled the bases already. He didn't, and we're left waiting for Godot and/or whatever scraps are tossed our way in accepting a reduced existence. Time to go. Robbins needs to enlist whatever help he needs to overcome Crow's bullshit. I'm quite sure the Big XII would accept the Arizona schools by themselves. It would more than likely set the dominoes in play. Sorry if somebody can't rub elbows with, and delude themselves into thinking they're the equivalent of, Stanford and Berkeley anymore. Instead, you have a Big XII West of Arizona, ASU, BYU, Utah, Colorado, Texas Tech, Kansas, and Kansas St. You rotate in one additional team from the Big XII East for an 8-game conference schedule. West plays East at Jerry World. The basketball tournaments are in Kansas City, baseball is at the Rangers' field in Dallas, and softball is at the WCWS stadium in OKC. It's far from a fate worse than death, and life goes on. I'm not going to play ping-pong on this, so if there's any desire to copy/paste the same months-old counter-argument again...great.

Respectfully disagree. ESPN and FOX have done deals like this with college conferences all the time. They are so good at it, they locked the ACC into a GOR that seems to be ironclad. Streamers like AppleTv and Amazon, on the other hand, have little experience negotiating with sports leagues, and zero experience negotiating with college athletic conferences. And when you are dealing with inexperienced lawyers, things often take more time than expected.

I think on the heels of the ACC deal, the schools are being extra careful too not to be too locked in for too long. If the B1G comes calling for UW and Oregon, they don't want to be stuck having to pay 7 figures to leave.

These things are complicated. Just ask the B1G. Their contract with NBC hasn't been fully signed and executed yet like everyone thought. Oops. https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... ncertainty

Last, if the money is around the same, I still arguing streaming on AppleTv is better than ESPN+, where our games would be buried along with NBA, MLB, NHL, and promoted behind the SEC and the ACC, which is what the BIG12 is looking at.

[EastCoastCat]

I vote to close this thread until something fucking happens.

Opinions, theories and ouija board takes have been provided ad nauseum.

[GlobalCat]

espn and fox are running everything

The PAC12 fans dug the grave for the conference years and years ago

A deal not being done is not on George K or anyone else besides fox and espn purposely moving parts around to make their program as cheap as possible. Why pay 4 conferences when you can suck out the value of the 4th and only pay 3 and still get your late window. Fuck the players fuck the fans fuck tradition fuck everything except the bottom line for fox and espm

Their hands are tied too. Higher interest rates, slowing economy, shifting viewership patterns, changes in ad spend, and greater focus on profitability (and related threats from activist investors) have make new media leaders hesitate to do new deals without achievable profitability targets.

The other conferences were huge beneficiaries of market timing.

[84Cat]

[EastCoastCat]

It’s an Oxymoron with Heeke’s picture next to the phrase “Arizona’s Future”

[KillerKlown]

[Merkin]

How could moving out of SF cost them money? The current PAC administration has to be the most inept entity in the entire history of the conference of champions.

I was a huge admirer of the Ralph Miller basketball years at OSU, and especially what Mike Price and Mike Leach did with WSU football, but sadly those teams are not going to come out well with this. Those are Big West schools. WSU has 2 more Rose Bowl appearances than the UA does, and Mike Price by himself put 5 QBs into the league. The UA of course has no Rose Bowl appearances, and only one QB ever to take a snap in a NFL game during the PAC era, and he was just cut.

[PHXCATS]

This was not a good interview at all

[azcat49]

I agree as I thought it was weekly done. More of a fan boy, rah rah type of interview. Didn’t dig at all into issues and lobbed soft balls at him

[CardiacCats97]

I agree as I thought it was weekly done. More of a fan boy, rah rah type of interview. Didn’t dog at all all into issues and lobbed soft balls at him

Tough to conduct hard hitting interviews when access journalism is how you pay the bills. If we are going to get real answers from Heeke it’s going to have to come from an interview with a national news outlet but none of them give a ripe fart about the PAC-10.

[azcat49]

Agree with that so why even spend 3 minutes on the topic when he isn’t going yo give you anything.

Would have loved to hear deeper questions on the baseball and softball programs along with more NIL questions.

The blowing up of our coaches(and Heeke)could have been left out but as you said, that is their meal ticket

[RondaeShimmy]

This was not a good interview at all

If Luke is such a bad thing for Arizona why is our AD on his show multiple times, along with Fisch and other people close to the football program and people close to the bball program?

[ChooChooCat]

Agree with that so why even spend 3 minutes on the topic when he isn’t going yo give you anything.

Would have loved to hear deeper questions on the baseball and softball programs along with more NIL questions.

The blowing up of our coaches(and Heeke)could have been left out but as you said, that is their meal ticket

You always ask the question(s) just in case he does give you something. Was it likely Heeke was going to be dumb? No. Heeke has his weaknesses, but opening his mouth too much isn't one of them. On the other hand there are dipshits like Ray Anderson who will give noteworthy responses whether right or wrong. It's part of the world, you ask questions people want the answers to regardless if you know you're going to get spin or not. There's always a chance a guy could be off his game or say too much on accident.

[azcat49]

That makes perfect sense Choo but I then would have given some scenario’s to see if he would have bit on those questions. He simply asked the question and moved on which I thought was weak.

Maybe he was trying to cover too much ground in that short period. He talked about the locker room remodel at HiCo but no follow up on where the AD can help the program get more competitive in attracting top flight arms.

Maybe I am just being to critical

[PHXCATS]

This was not a good interview at all

If Luke is such a bad thing for Arizona why is our AD on his show multiple times, along with Fisch and other people close to the football program and people close to the bball program?

Amazing how you read what you wanted to and not what was typed and on your screen

[PHXCATS]

That makes perfect sense Choo but I then would have given some scenario’s to see if he would have bit on those questions. He simply asked the question and moved on which I thought was weak.

Maybe he was trying to cover too much ground in that short period. He talked about the locker room remodel at HiCo but no follow up on where the AD can help the program get more competitive in attracting top flight arms.

Maybe I am just being to critical

Many many many missed opportunities in every topic plus did not bring up the biggest issue in the department currently. Could have asked many things about it that are not even about the issue but how it is impacting others etc.

That is why it was a bad interview. Heeke did what he wanted. It was basically an audio Wildcat Weekly email.

[PHXCATS]

The more I think about it, the more I think we are staying in the PAC as long as Washington Stanford and Cal are as well. Washington leaves then I think U of A goes elsewhere.

This is all due to academics. Athletics makes up about 5% of the yearly budget for the entire University. Grants, donations, applications etc will obviously will never go away, but how many of those are helped by being associated with Stanford, Cal, Washington, UCLA, USC? Going to the Big 12 would be a difference of what worse case? $11Million dollars when the University has a yearly budget of around $2Billion?

U of A would be by far the best academic school overall in the Big 12 if it moved solo today after Texas leaves. BYU is a good school but has way different focuses than U of A.

I know I have primarily focused on the athletics aspect of this as well as the overall academic standing of the conferences. I was not thinking of the dollar amounts being associated with those top tier schools mean to the overall University

[Merkin]

This is all due to academics. Athletics makes up about 5% of the yearly budget for the entire University.

Pacific ATHLETIC Conference.

Not saying PAC presidents haven't been academic snobs, they have for decades, and why SDSU and UNLV have not been invited to the PAC, although they are ideal due to location.

Just that P5 conferences athletic departments are normally self sufficient, and do not rely on academic funds. So $11M is a huge difference to them.

Just a side note, UCLA and Cal cannot use state funds to travel to Arizona due to some AZ discriminatory legislation. Those expenses are totally paid for by the AD.

UA AD has reported revenue of $119,744,767, and expenses of $116,078,717. You don't think $11M is a difference maker?

Looking up UCLA, they actually break even to the exact dollar.

[PHXCATS]

Of course Merk doesn't get the point

[PHXCATS]

Total revenue for UA in 2022 FY was over 1,500,000,000. Yes 11,000,000 is less than 1%

[azcat49]

What I think you are saying is that the University’s total revenue is aided greatly by being linked to the Bay Area schools and Washington.

I did see an article that said something like the whole Big12 research revenue was below most of the PAC’s individual school totals or it was something like that

I think I saw Robbins had set a goal to reach the 1B mark in research grants by 2025. No doubt staying would help on that front.

That said then why wouldn’t the B1G want those three schools? Your thoughts there make the most sense of why we should stay but I am having trouble looking at other schools bolting as even 40m might be chump change unless Northwestern and Michigan are Stanford’s equal in this equation

[CardiacCats97]

Of course Merk doesn't get the point

This schtick is stupid and you know it.

[Merkin]

Total revenue for UA in 2022 FY was over 1,500,000,000. Yes 11,000,000 is less than 1%

I guess you missed the part where I said that athletic department funding is different than the academic funding.

But never mind, conversing with you is like beating my head against the wall.

I imagine you are for what Wilner is proposing, giving UDub and Oregon a bigger share of the pie.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Different colors of money. Athletics is virtually a different company within the University. Their revenues come exclusively from media rights, ticket sales, merch, direct donations, etc. Both Arizona schools get scholarship waivers for athletes, but that's it. As to academics, the University of Texas was in the Big XII for a long time, and they're far ahead of UArizona by most academic metrics. Now they've moved to the SEC, which isn't much better than the Big XII academically. It's pretty much the Texas schools and Vandy. I don't believe any sports league "linkage" to any other school causes more government or private grants. They do the research they do (genomics, optics, space sciences, etc.) and they may partner with other schools which are good at some aspect of those areas, but not because of their athletic affiliation. There's absolutely nothing stopping Arizona from partnering with Cal, Stanford, UCLA, or Washington regardless of any sports league anybody is in. The LA schools went to the Big Ten for more net athletic department revenue and exposure. They will certainly continue to collaborate academically with the Bay Area schools and Washington after they become Big Ten schools.

[PHXCATS]

Total revenue for UA in 2022 FY was over 1,500,000,000. Yes 11,000,000 is less than 1%

I guess you missed the part where I said that athletic department funding is different than the academic funding.

But never mind, conversing with you is like beating my head against the wall.

I imagine you are for what Wilner is proposing, giving UDub and Oregon a bigger share of the pie.

For fuck sake. Who is the decision maker as I said? President Robbins. Does he oversee just Athletics or the entire University? He of course has to take into account the whole thing including how much U of A benefits being associated with Cal, Stanford, Washington etc as I said. HELLO. It is a hell of a lot more than $11 Million a year.

And no, I am not for that proposal.

[PHXCATS]

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! Cardiac Cat is triggered

[PHXCATS]

Different colors of money. Athletics is virtually a different company within the University. Their revenues come exclusively from media rights, ticket sales, merch, direct donations, etc. Both Arizona schools get scholarship waivers for athletes, but that's it. As to academics, the University of Texas was in the Big XII for a long time, and they're far ahead of UArizona by most academic metrics. Now they've moved to the SEC, which isn't much better than the Big XII academically. It's pretty much the Texas schools and Vandy. I don't believe any sports league "linkage" to any other school causes more government or private grants. They do the research they do (genomics, optics, space sciences, etc.) and they may partner with other schools which are good at some aspect of those areas, but not because of their athletic affiliation. There's absolutely nothing stopping Arizona from partnering with Cal, Stanford, UCLA, or Washington regardless of any sports league anybody is in. The LA schools went to the Big Ten for more net athletic department revenue and exposure. They will certainly continue to collaborate academically with the Bay Area schools and Washington after they become Big Ten schools.

The PAC-12 and Big Ten are very similar academically.

Yeah Arizona can still partner with those schools but the overall image of the University academically will take a hit moving the the Big 12. It just will. How much is what President Robbins needs to figure out. That is not an easy number to figure out but I am willing to bet a lot of money it will be more than $11 Million a year.

We all are big fans of the Athletic Department. But it is such a small part of the overall University. Just because the Athletic Department runs their own budget does not mean the entire University is not part of the PAC-12. I think we have all focused on Athletics only and not how it rolls into the entire University.

I am sure a merger/partnership with the ACC would be very beneficial to all the Presidents of the PAC-12 and ACC. Would help Athletic and would not hurt Academics in any way

[CardiacCats97]

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! Cardiac Cat is triggered

Says the guy who is literally mad at everything all the time.

[azgreg]

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! Cardiac Cat is triggered

[PHXCATS]

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! Cardiac Cat is triggered

Bless you Greg

[ChooChooCat]

The PAC-12 and Big Ten are very similar academically.

Yeah Arizona can still partner with those schools but the overall image of the University academically will take a hit moving the the Big 12.

LMAO according to fucking whom? My god no Arizona alum goes around bragging about Arizona's academic prowess outside of when comparing themselves to ASU alums and we're in the same god damn conference. This conference also has academic mediocrities in Wazzu & Oregon State as well.

Seriously who here has ever claimed that Arizona was a mighty academic powerhouse or ever bragged "I graduated from a Pac-12 school?" TCU and BYU's academic prowess is greater than ours for fuck sakes, but oh no our image academically will falter!

GTFO of here. Asinine take is asinine.

We are talking about sports conferences here. SPORTS conferences! The research money will not dry up because we're no longer going to be playing football on a yearly basis against Stanford. Go away with this shit. I am so tired of how stupid of an argument this is.

[pc in NM]

Which college football conferences have the best academic rankings?

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zac ... 2cd1c9511a

Rankings last updated on Jan. 13, 2023.
Big Ten
Average ranking: 56th
Northwestern — 10th
UCLA — 20th
Michigan — 25th
Southern Cal — 25th
Wisconsin — 38th
Illinois — 41st
Ohio State — 49th
Purdue — 51st
Maryland — 55th
Rutgers — 55th
Minnesota — 62nd
Indiana — 72nd
Michigan State — 77th
Penn State — 77th
Iowa — 83rd
Nebraska — 151st

ACC
Average ranking: 57th (55th with Notre Dame)
Duke — 10th
(Notre Dame — 18th)
Virginia — 25th
North Carolina — 29th
Wake Forest — 29th
Boston College — 36th
Georgia Tech — 44th
Florida State — 55th
Miami — 55th
Pittsburgh — 62nd
Syracuse — 62nd
Virginia Tech — 62nd
NC State — 72nd
Clemson — 77th
Louisville — 182nd

Pac-12
Average ranking: 97th
Stanford — 3rd
California — 20th
Washington — 55th
Colorado — 97th
Arizona — 105th
Oregon — 105th
Utah — 105th
Arizona State — 121st
Oregon State — 151st
Washington State — 212th

SEC
Average ranking: 109th
Vanderbilt — 13th
Florida — 29th
Texas — 38th
Georgia — 49th
Texas A&M — 67th
Auburn — 97th
South Carolina — 115th
Tennessee — 115th
Missouri — 121st
Oklahoma — 127th
Kentucky — 137th
Alabama — 137th
Mississippi — 151st
Arkansas — 176th
LSU — 176th
Mississippi State — 194th

Big 12
Average ranking: 148th
Baylor — 77th
BYU — 89th
TCU — 89th
Kansas — 121st
Iowa State — 127th
UCF — 137th
Cincinnati — 151st
Kansas State — 166th
Houston — 182nd
Oklahoma State — 182nd
Texas Tech — 219th
West Virginia — 234th

AAC
Average ranking: 182nd
Rice — 15th
Tulane — 44th
SMU — 72nd
South Florida — 97th
Temple — 121st
Tulsa — 137th
UAB — 137th
Charlotte — 219th
East Carolina — 234th
Florida Atlantic — 263rd
Memphis — 263rd
North Texas — 285th
UTSA — 331st
Navy — N/A
Wichita State — 331st (non-football member)

Mountain West
Average ranking: 226th
Colorado State — 151st
San Diego State — 151st
Hawaii — 166th
Wyoming — 202nd
New Mexico — 212th
Fresno State — 250th
Utah State — 250th
Nevada — 263rd
UNLV — 285th
Boise State — 331st
San Jose State — N/A
Air Force — N/A

MAC
Average ranking: 240th

Conference USA
Average ranking: 291st

Sun Belt
Average ranking: 299th

Research 1 universities

Another way to measure academic status is by the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education. There are 131 schools in the country with Research 1 (R1) status.

Of the 69 schools that will be part of the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 or SEC by 2025, the only ones that don’t have R1 status are BYU, Baylor, TCU and Wake Forest.

Of the other 62 schools that play FBS football, just 17 of them have R1 status

[CardiacCats97]

Oh no! What will I ever do if I can’t tell people that my beloved alma mater is no longer academically adjacent to Stanford by way of athletic conference affiliation?

[Merkin]

According to Machina's criteria, the ACC may not even want more than half the PAC schools.

[TheCatInTheHat]

To begin with, anything other than very broad tier academic rankings are false precision. And as to ranking schools overall, you might as well compare apples to toaster ovens. If you're going into pre-med, you don't necessarily care about somebody's ranking of the business school. And other than a certain amount of early career networking and entree to some graduate programs, once you're applying for that second or third job, it's pretty rare that anybody particularly cares about the school. You care about the experience at the last company and how that matches up to your requirements, and how your spider sense felt about the person in their interview. Otherwise, that Stanford degree may give you pause that the person may think they deserve more than is allocated for the job, or that they may not pay back their OJT with enough time holding down that position before they jump somewhere. Or maybe you don't want some ASU honk disrupting a place with a big Wildcat culture. But in general, it's undergraduate degree...check...graduate degree if required...check...necessary certifications...check. Beyond that, it's all job experience and how the person projects as a member of the team. Anyway, all of that is about Ken and Barbie heading off to college and embarking on their careers, while this thread is about the big business revenue producing sports at Arizona Athletics, Inc.

[CardiacCats97]

The PAC-12 and Big Ten are very similar academically.

Yeah Arizona can still partner with those schools but the overall image of the University academically will take a hit moving the the Big 12.

LMAO according to fucking whom? My god no Arizona alum goes around bragging about Arizona's academic prowess outside of when comparing themselves to ASU alums and we're in the same god damn conference. This conference also has academic mediocrities in Wazzu & Oregon State as well.

Seriously who here has ever claimed that Arizona was a mighty academic powerhouse or ever bragged "I graduated from a Pac-12 school?" TCU and BYU's academic prowess is greater than ours for fuck sakes, but oh no our image academically will falter!

GTFO of here. Asinine take is asinine.

We are talking about sports conferences here. SPORTS conferences! The research money will not dry up because we're no longer going to be playing football on a yearly basis against Stanford. Go away with this shit. I am so tired of how stupid of an argument this is.

Are we not even going to get a flaccid “you obviously missed the point” response from Phxcat? Disappointing

[KillerKlown]

[TheCatInTheHat]

Here's the Dodd story...

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... ng-pac-12/

[CardiacCats97]

The PAC-10 TV negotiations must be as embarrassing as we all assume them to be.

[PHXCATS]

Just a FYI

[84Cat]

[dmjcat]

[BBQ wildcat]

PLEASE, Colorado!!! Pull the plug so this shitshow of a conference can finally go down the drain.

[PHXCATS]

FYI.

Does not seem to start on time. 41:30 is the realignment rumor

[CardiacCats97]

That was less than useless.

[AzCatFan2]

Colorado fans on All Buffs (PAC 12 Losing USC and UCLA thread) are mostly 2:1 against going to the BIG12. Or the Buc-ee12 as many of them refer to it.

In other news, ASu, along with George Washington, UC Riverside, Miami, Notre Dame, and South Florida have been invited to become AAU schools (https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltni ... 6371924e6d). While I think ASu being invited to the AAU is a positive for the state, it adds some interesting flavor to the realignment talk. ASu is now a school the B1G might consider. Oregon and UW have already been vetted for B1G membership, but if the B1G is interested in travel partners for the LA schools, the AZ schools are much closer. There are also a ton of B1G alumni who live in Arizona, and a growing number of top prep players coming out of AZ.