2023-2024 Arizona Basketball

[Beachcat97]

Love is gonna make a run at our pantheon of great dunkers before all's said and done this season. AG, D-Will, Iggy, Hassan, Mathurin, RJ, Chase...who else?

Rawle...of course.

[EastCoastCat]

I thought Sean had some good ones and basically started it all.

[AZCatGirl]

I'm glad they're warning us in advance.

[Merkin]

Love is gonna make a run at our pantheon of great dunkers before all's said and done this season. AG, D-Will, Iggy, Hassan, Mathurin, RJ, Chase...who else?

John Ash

You are probably thinking of Beau Mulbach

https://youtu.be/P2vTNRqT6u8

[KaibabKat]

I thought Sean had some good ones and basically started it all.

Herm Harris started it all - first player to dunk in McKale (missed his first attempt and immediately went to the bench).

[Merkin]

The dunk being a highlight now.

The dunk was only banned for 7 years, especially during the Lew Alcindor years.

Before that it was considered a sign of disrespect and could get you injured.

[EastCoastCat]

The dunk being a highlight now.

The dunk was only banned for 7 years, especially during the Lew Alcindor years.

Before that it was considered a sign of disrespect and could get you injured.

Slight correction - it was banned for 10 years (‘67-‘76) and it was banned because of Lew/Kareem. Btw, it was also banned in High School as well.

Kareem said it was a subtle form of discrimination. Some pro’s said there was an unwritten rule to take out the opponent’s legs on anyone trying to dunk so it was frowned upon.

But the rulemakers who outlawed the dunk said “it did not display any basketball skill - just a height advantage.”

[dovecanyoncat]

Went to a Montana Grizzlies game back in the 70s during the ban. One of our guys dunked during warm-ups and got a technical. Now you know why we old farts are weird: the world was weird when we were you.

[RichardCranium]

Another reason they banned it was that the "glass" was actually glass and could and did shatter with disastrous results. Not all regulations are laid down by party poopers to spoil the fun.

[EastCoastCat]

Another reason they banned it was that the "glass" was actually glass and could and did shatter with disastrous results. Not all regulations are laid down by party poopers to spoil the fun.

Never heard that and don’t think that was a major reason for the ban. Were high school and college kids even strong enough?

First time I heard of the backboard shattering was Daryl Dawkins with the ‘76ers.

[pc in NM]

Another reason they banned it was that the "glass" was actually glass and could and did shatter with disastrous results. Not all regulations are laid down by party poopers to spoil the fun.

Never heard that and don’t think that was a major reason for the ban. Were high school and college kids even strong enough?

First time I heard of the backboard shattering was Daryl Dawkins with the ‘76ers.

Why Did the NCAA Ban Dunking for 10 Years?

Today, the dunk is one of the most exciting moments in sports. That's why it's hard to believe the NCAA banned dunking for 10 years not that long ago.

https://www.sportscasting.com/why-did-t ... -10-years/

The NCAA banned the slam before the 1967-1968 college season for a couple of reasons. In the organization’s words, the dunk “was not a skillful shot,” and the rules committee said the ban was also a result of injury concerns.

Their report cited 1,500 events where a player was hurt around the backboard during the previous year.

While the NCAA never admitted it explicitly, many speculated the NCAA enacted the ban because of UCLA’s Lew Alcindor (he would later change his name to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar). Alcindor regularly dunked over his opponents his first year in college.

The media nicknamed it the “Lew Alcindor rule,” which prohibited players from making shots above and directly over the cylinder.

Alcindor’s coach at UCLA, the legendary John Wooden, said the NCAA indicated Alcindor was not the reason for the rule. However, the officials did admit his name came up in discussions.

Wooden, who was known for focusing on the game’s fundamentals, explained to his star center, it didn’t matter if he was the reason for the rule, it’s implementation was “going to make him a better basketball player.”

Alcindor didn’t necessarily agree. He thought the move had nothing to do with injuries and more to do with race.

“To me the new ‘no-dunk’ rule smacks a little of discrimination,” he told the Chicago Defender. “When you look at it … most of the people who dunk are black athletes.”

IMNSHO, at the time and continuing 'til this day, if Lew Alcindor had been white, "no problem"!!!

[UAEebs86]

Yeah I call BS RC

[pc in NM]

OTOH, IMNSHO, the dunk has had a similar negative impact of basketball as has the homerun on baseball.

We know every highly rated American HS recruit can do awesome dunks, because of the highlight film and stupid dunk contests at every level... But, can they play basketball??? Not that well, in way to many cases!!

Fortunately, we have a great international recruiter as out head coach - BTFD!!!!

[Beachcat97]

So with Pac play beginning, how well do we need to do in league to secure a 1 seed? As it stands, we've got at least six teams competing for 1 seeds: Purdue, KU, Houston, AZ, UConn, Tennessee. I expect UNC and/or Kentucky could become part of this conversation by March. The teams beyond these eight would need the higher ranked teams to stumble in order to sneak into the 1 seed conversation. Looking at just the current top 4, Houston has tough games coming up in the next few weeks, some on the road. Purdue could go a while without losing. KU plays a surprisingly good OU team in a couple weeks. And we've got our toughest league opponent next week in Utah.

Given how weak the Pac is, with hardly any good OOC wins aside from what we've done, it feels like we'd need to put up a pretty spectacular league record in order to lock in a 1 seed. If we slip up and lose to any Pac bottom feeders like Cal or ucla, our key seeding metrics would take a bigger hit than usual. We have five remaining Q1 opponents on our schedule. Compare this to Purdue (8), Houston (11), KU (10), UConn (10), and Tennessee (9).

While I'd love to get a 1 seed, this season I'm more concerned with staying healthy, tightening up our weak spots, developing our bench players, and going into the tourney as one of the best defensive teams in the country.

[UAdevil]

Don't see a 1 seed now...

[Captain Obvious]

Don't see a 1 seed now...

Very doubtful. All these yo yo's proclaiming Arizona would run the the table in the conference. Nope.

[Beachcat97]

Don't see a 1 seed now...

Note to self: don’t count your long-term season prospects until they hatch.

[84Cat]

Don't see a 1 seed now...

It looks like we dropped 1 whole spot in KenPom, down to #4. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the Net rankings

[Beachcat97]

How do we win at Cameron and lose at Maples?

This team’s either going to lose in the 1st round or make the Final Four.

[RawleArenas]

Wildcat kryptonite:

CSM - Zone defenses

CTL - High ball screens

[Captain Obvious]

How do we win at Cameron and lose at Maples?

This team’s either going to lose in the 1st round or make the Final Four.

My money is on the former.

[dmjcat]

Ding, ding, we have a winner

[Merkin]

IMNSHO, at the time and continuing 'til this day, if Lew Alcindor had been white, "no problem"!!!

Without a doubt, but it is pretty cool that you are so dominating they name a rule after you. Wilt Chamberlain too probably had more NBA rule changes based on a single person than anyone.

Along with keeping tabs on all his groupies.

[RichardCranium]

Another reason they banned it was that the "glass" was actually glass and could and did shatter with disastrous results. Not all regulations are laid down by party poopers to spoil the fun.

Never heard that and don’t think that was a major reason for the ban. Were high school and college kids even strong enough?

First time I heard of the backboard shattering was Daryl Dawkins with the ‘76ers.

Why Did the NCAA Ban Dunking for 10 Years?

Today, the dunk is one of the most exciting moments in sports. That's why it's hard to believe the NCAA banned dunking for 10 years not that long ago.

https://www.sportscasting.com/why-did-t ... -10-years/

The NCAA banned the slam before the 1967-1968 college season for a couple of reasons. In the organization’s words, the dunk “was not a skillful shot,” and the rules committee said the ban was also a result of injury concerns.

Their report cited 1,500 events where a player was hurt around the backboard during the previous year.

While the NCAA never admitted it explicitly, many speculated the NCAA enacted the ban because of UCLA’s Lew Alcindor (he would later change his name to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar). Alcindor regularly dunked over his opponents his first year in college.

The media nicknamed it the “Lew Alcindor rule,” which prohibited players from making shots above and directly over the cylinder.

Alcindor’s coach at UCLA, the legendary John Wooden, said the NCAA indicated Alcindor was not the reason for the rule. However, the officials did admit his name came up in discussions.

Wooden, who was known for focusing on the game’s fundamentals, explained to his star center, it didn’t matter if he was the reason for the rule, it’s implementation was “going to make him a better basketball player.”

Alcindor didn’t necessarily agree. He thought the move had nothing to do with injuries and more to do with race.

“To me the new ‘no-dunk’ rule smacks a little of discrimination,” he told the Chicago Defender. “When you look at it … most of the people who dunk are black athletes.”

IMNSHO, at the time and continuing 'til this day, if Lew Alcindor had been white, "no problem"!!!

I don't doubt that the 'official story' is what you say it is.

But I saw Eddie Myers break the glass during a game in the Pueblo High School gym in (must have been 1966 or 67). Myers went on to play for a poor Arizona team, get drafted, and spend no time in the league. He played for the Harlem Globetrotters for a while IIRC.

Backboards are expensive. High school couldn't afford that happening on a regular basis. The stupid thing about Eddie Myers smash was the Pueblo gym (nor any others I can remember in Tucson) had seats un the endzone. They didn't need clear backboards.

[RichardCranium]

Yeah I call BS RC

See my reply above.

I saw Eddie Myers break the glass during a game in the Pueblo High School gym in 1966 or 67.

[EastCoastCat]

Yeah I call BS RC

See my reply above.

I saw Eddie Myers break the glass during a game in the Pueblo High School gym in 1966 or 67.

But fiberglass (not glass) were few and far between in high schools in the ‘60’s.

I played in the late ‘70’s and even though we had a fiberglass backboard we might have had 1-2 players who could even dunk reasonably hard. It was usually that “barely over the rim” type of dunk.

[pc in NM]

Arizona's last full game playing with "Poise" (CTL's term) was vs Purdue. In that game, Purdue also played with "poise", and sports fans had an epic battle - surely, one of the best of the season.

The first half vs Cal was excellent "poise"; the second half was merely going through the motions...

Since Purdue, Arizona has been either/or taken out of it's offensive game plan, or been unable to defend effectively. Yesterday, even occasional 25 minutes of good defense broke down giving Stanford open shots and layups...

I'm discouraged to say, that Arizona's team is devolving to be LESS than the sum of its parts. I don't think its coaching; it's a lack of "poise" and team play; players reverting to one-one-one, over-dribbling and over-confident performances...

And, while we'll certainly have better personnel vs virtually every opponent the remainder of the regular season, we're likely to struggle in several games, and, while the conventional wisdom is that fall ball is not predictive of tournament play, it does often reveal the weaknesses that will be exploited in a six-game single elimination format.

Meanwhile, Arizona basketball is supposed to be one, and probably is, of the best things to look forward to as the New Year dawns!

IMNSHO, "BTFD!!!!" means having the competitive sense and high standards of Bill Walton every minute of every game!

Just, as they say, sayin'

[AZCatGirl]

Still top 10.

[Merkin]

Still 4th in NET.

https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketbal ... t-rankings

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Dropped to 4 in kenpom #8 O eff, #7 D eff.
Not sure how that's possible after giving up 100 to FURD of all places.!!!!!!

[Beachcat97]

Our wins over Duke, MSU, Wisconsin and Bama are no joke, and they’ll continue to pay dividends all season long. We’re set up well for a high tournament seed.

The only thing that can change this is a truly disastrous Pac season, where games like yesterday’s become the norm over the next several weeks. I don’t expect that to happen.

[TheCatInTheHat]

They're 11-2 overall and 2-0 in conference play, neither of which can we say, although with a little different strength of schedule. They split a pair with RIchmond and Florida St at Daytona. Then, they lost a rivalry game at Colorado St, playing against a former teammate who could provide a nice scouting report. They beat Miami in Brooklyn, and then swept the Washingtons at Boulder. One point is that we don't go to Boulder this season, which is nice, but they're also motivated by their one and only shot at us in McKale. Of course, I'm sure we're also pretty motivated after giving up 100 at Stanford. Their top five scorers average a combined 45% from beyond the arc, with 6-8 freshman Cody Williams leading the way at 60%. Otherwise, no doubt the same Tad Boyle bump, grind, and grab defense and rebounding with running commentary for the refs, and some aggressive drives to the basket.

[Merkin]

Better than I thought.

the UA has dropped to 226th out 362 Division I teams in 3-point field goal defense.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... IZiU9on9Is

[KaibabKat]

Does Chris Rodger's have any eligibility lefr?

[Beachcat97]

Better than I thought.

the UA has dropped to 226th out 362 Division I teams in 3-point field goal defense.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... IZiU9on9Is

This is just bizarre to me. If we’re not significantly improved in this area by March, gonna be hard not to blame our coaching. This is a very coachable skill.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

I've been wondering about this, are we really that bad at 3 point D? Or have we just hit a few teams on flukey great nights where the were just hitting any garbage they threw up?
I can't tell by watching cause I'm no coach but our 3 losses, there were multiple guys on each team that went off! Is our 3 point defense that much worse than northwesterns or Florida gulf coast?
Just curious what someone who knows what they are talking about thinks, not just what analytics says.
I'm not saying that anyone else who has commented here on this doesn't, just that I'm sure there's someone that really knows their stuff and has been observing this.

[Dave]

I was listening to Andy Patton the host for Locked On Zags. He said the Zags have had a long history of not being able to defend the 3 point line.
https://youtu.be/VO7YVqiez08?si=ugynmwgcikAAIUXO

[TheCatInTheHat]

Personally, I'd be in favor of moving the line out again, to the NBA distance, as I think college players have progressed to a level where it's a little out of balance. It's kind of like the height of the pitching mound, how tight the ball is wound, and how much you test for PEDs when you've got too many 60 homer guys. But the current rules are what we've got. FAU is a great shooting team, and Stanford had two guys who shot the lights out. And we have another season of having to tip-toe on the road with a number of the refs in this league. We scheduled a lot of games on the road, maybe too many. Flying out at somebody late does absolutely nothing, as good shooters are locked on the rim. So positioning really matters, and you have to risk opening up the middle a little more. "Run With Us" is great, but you have to make sure your players aren't saving themselves for offense too much or cheating a step or two to sneak out on the break. I think Lloyd can adjust positioning and re-emphasize defense, even if he has to re-allocate minutes a bit to keep players fresh. And you block/harass a right-handed shooter with your left, and vice-versa. And if somebody is built more like Gail Goodrich than Jerry West, you need to take that into account.

[pc in NM]

Personally, I'd be in favor of moving the line out again, to the NBA distance, as I think college players have progressed to a level where it's a little out of balance. It's kind of like the height of the pitching mound, how tight the ball is wound, and how much you test for PEDs when you've got too many 60 homer guys. But the current rules are what we've got. FAU is a great shooting team, and Stanford had two guys who shot the lights out. And we have another season of having to tip-toe on the road with a number of the refs in this league. We scheduled a lot of games on the road, maybe too many. Flying out at somebody late does absolutely nothing, as good shooters are locked on the rim. So positioning really matters, and you have to risk opening up the middle a little more. "Run With Us" is great, but you have to make sure your players aren't saving themselves for offense too much or cheating a step or two to sneak out on the break. I think Lloyd can adjust positioning and re-emphasize defense, even if he has to re-allocate minutes a bit to keep players fresh. And you block/harass a right-handed shooter with your left, and vice-versa. And if somebody is built more like Gail Goodrich than Jerry West, you need to take that into account.

Giving up 100 points to ANY team in 40 minutes is a defensive failure.

Giving up 100 points to Stanford in 40 minutes is a crisis.

Arizona must admit this and deal with it seriously.

[84Cat]

[TheCatInTheHat]

Those are pretty sweet...I like the pinstripe things around the bottom laces.

Regarding the defense, I doubt Lloyd is going to bench anybody as a scapegoat, or switch to a 1-3-1 as a base or something like that. I think it's more subtle than that, in terms of positioning and certainly effort. Sometimes it has to do with game circumstances and matchups. And there are also trade-offs. You may sacrifice a little more access to the lane to extend out on the perimeter, and you may not be able to cherry pick as much for breakaways.

[Beachcat97]

I've been wondering about this, are we really that bad at 3 point D? Or have we just hit a few teams on flukey great nights where the were just hitting any garbage they threw up?
I can't tell by watching cause I'm no coach but our 3 losses, there were multiple guys on each team that went off! Is our 3 point defense that much worse than northwesterns or Florida gulf coast?
Just curious what someone who knows what they are talking about thinks, not just what analytics says.
I'm not saying that anyone else who has commented here on this doesn't, just that I'm sure there's someone that really knows their stuff and has been observing this.

I've noticed a tendency of our perimeter defenders to go under screens, rather than chasing their man around the screen or trying to evade the screen. When you dip under a screen, you're effectively conceding an open look to the shooter. It may only be a split second, but it's enough time for a decent shooter to hit that shot. Stanford was shooting lights out all game, so it made even less sense to dip under screens. I'm not sure how this is being addressed in practice.

[Merkin]

And the help has been awful when someone is screened. You can see the players sniping at each other on missed switches.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Great points on the screening issue. I'll add that it can be a bit problematic in the Pac, depending on refs who sometimes don't accept the concept of "fighting through screens." We only had two players with any kind of foul trouble at Stanford (Ballo and Love with 3 each), so maybe we've been a bit too paranoid about it. I think it was Al McGuire who said "Football is a collision sport, but basketball is still a contact sport."

[Beachcat97]

And the help has been awful when someone is screened. You can see the players sniping at each other on missed switches.

Again, this is something the coaches have to recognize and address. If they're not working on this in practice, it's going to get easier and easier to beat Arizona this season.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Watched the lowlights of the Furd game, lots of late closeouts and Renaud was just not guarded on some of his threes, that plus some just absurd threes. But Spencer Jones had some open looks and so did Carlyle, but still the percentages they put up are like unguarded 3point competition numbers, they probably don't shoot that well in practice guarded by a trainer. And not just 1 or 2 guys, 5 guys shot 50% or better from 3. That's nuts.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if we let 5 guys shoot over 50% from 3 in any other game, we lose that one too. And so does Purdue, and probably the Pistons. Ok that last one is hyperbole.

[Postmaster]

Just heard a CTL interview and he seemed pretty defensive regarding defense. Said cats were second nationally in defense a week ago and sees no need to change base defense. He cut the interviewer off before he could finish the question.
He did mention the need for effort for whole game.

Not sure of source as I was hearing it on someone else’s phone.

[Postmaster]

And the help has been awful when someone is screened. You can see the players sniping at each other on missed switches.

Seems like that has been a season long occurrence.

[84Cat]

Just heard a CTL interview and he seemed pretty defensive regarding defense. Said cats were second nationally in defense a week ago and sees no need to change base defense. He cut the interviewer off before he could finish the question.
He did mention the need for effort for whole game.

Not sure of source as I was hearing it on someone else’s phone.

It was at today's press conference. Tommy was incredibly feisty today. Here is the entire thing:

[Merkin]

Just for shits and grins, went to Torvik to see how Sean Miller's Musketeers are doing with Pack Line Defense if he still runs it.

31st in 2 pt defense, 32nd in 3 pt defense.

UA 99th and 219th.

Not that I want to see Miller or the Pack Line Defense again at Arizona.