2024-25 Arizona Basketball

[Winger]

Tommy can have an absolutely shit year due to poor roster construction and still be the long term right guy. He can't let obviously glaring issues like not having a starting guard that can shoot consistently happen again though. All 3 of our guards in a vacuum are great players we would always love to have, but I wouldn't ever have these 3 be my main 3 guards any season ever. They all have the same weaknesses and roughly the same strengths. They don't compliment each other at all.

A season like this is why you'd rather have seen Lloyd coach at a smaller school first so he could have learned lessons like this there instead of here.

How many guards has Lloyd brought in that can shoot?

Is Bradley even a PG? What's his assist % to date this season? 2%?

Lloyd has won a lot of games but what's his grade for PGs here at PGU to date?

What good is Love as a SG if 1) he frequently can't shoot and 2) when he is off he doesn't do anything else and 3) he is a liability defensively? Where has the "we're going to get Caleb driving, especially to his left, here at Arizona" gone? Shelved for "this season I am going to be a catch-and-shoot (air-balls lol) guy"?

I like Lewis, but for now he needs to be a zero-and-D guy and surrounded by players who can score.

Townsend is a 3 who can't shoot playing the 4 and, like so many other DGTs and 1-season transfer guys, can't do what he does at this level often enough.

ADO should never have been added.

Krivas and Veessaar have potential, but how many euros under Lloyd at Arizona have washed out without fulfilling their potential? How much longer do we need to wait? If you're going to play either, similar to Lewis, they both need to be surrounded by scorers, you can forget about using them as a legit block threat against anyone good, and you definitely can't play both together.

Martinez? Please.

Carter looks like he may have it, but imv he needs the lion's share of the minutes at the 4. Starting now. He is TBD, but looking favorable, imo.

Point being: how many lessons has Lloyd learned when it comes to roster construction?

Did he really like all these guys or rather are they more-so simply the best he can/could get/afford?

People are just fn stupid after a loss. Is Bradley even a pg? He was rated out of high school as a top 3 pg. Roster construction? Wow in his 4th year. Couple of number 1 or 2 seeds and you question if he can construct a roster? Not saying this one is perfect but let's not overreact to a loss to a team most had in the top 3 at the beginning of the year. Euro's washing out? First I don't think Krivas or Vessar are Euro's but if they are how about Tublius or was leading the league in scoring and rebounding a wash out in you mind? Take a step back and relax. Lots of season still to come. This team has one starter back and a bunch of pieces that Tommy is trying to figure how to use them together. Are they the right piece? I don't know but excited they are here and that we have a coach that will make the most of their abilities. Oh and for a guy that can't shoot I think Caleb is among the top 5 in NCAA scoring that is playing this year. Winger since you just said all our guys are POS I suggest you don't watch anymore games and just enlighten us with your connections. You will feel better and so will most of us optimist fans.

Pretty secure with my ability to scout and evaluate Arizona basketball players but before calling someone stupid maybe take a second to Google “European countries”.

This is Lloyd’s 2nd team without the stars being Miller’s players ftr, and we’re only 4 games in to squad #2.

[Chicat]

Tommy can have an absolutely shit year due to poor roster construction and still be the long term right guy. He can't let obviously glaring issues like not having a starting guard that can shoot consistently happen again though. All 3 of our guards in a vacuum are great players we would always love to have, but I wouldn't ever have these 3 be my main 3 guards any season ever. They all have the same weaknesses and roughly the same strengths. They don't compliment each other at all.

A season like this is why you'd rather have seen Lloyd coach at a smaller school first so he could have learned lessons like this there instead of here.

How many guards has Lloyd brought in that can shoot?

Is Bradley even a PG? What's his assist % to date this season? 2%?

Lloyd has won a lot of games but what's his grade for PGs here at PGU to date?

What good is Love as a SG if 1) he frequently can't shoot and 2) when he is off he doesn't do anything else and 3) he is a liability defensively? Where has the "we're going to get Caleb driving, especially to his left, here at Arizona" gone? Shelved for "this season I am going to be a catch-and-shoot (air-balls lol) guy"?

I like Lewis, but for now he needs to be a zero-and-D guy and surrounded by players who can score.

Townsend is a 3 who can't shoot playing the 4 and, like so many other DGTs and 1-season transfer guys, can't do what he does at this level often enough.

ADO should never have been added.

Krivas and Veessaar have potential, but how many euros under Lloyd at Arizona have washed out without fulfilling their potential? How much longer do we need to wait? If you're going to play either, similar to Lewis, they both need to be surrounded by scorers, you can forget about using them as a legit block threat against anyone good, and you definitely can't play both together.

Martinez? Please.

Carter looks like he may have it, but imv he needs the lion's share of the minutes at the 4. Starting now. He is TBD, but looking favorable, imo.

Point being: how many lessons has Lloyd learned when it comes to roster construction?

Did he really like all these guys or rather are they more-so simply the best he can/could get/afford?

People are just fn stupid after a loss. Is Bradley even a pg? He was rated out of high school as a top 3 pg. Roster construction? Wow in his 4th year. Couple of number 1 or 2 seeds and you question if he can construct a roster? Not saying this one is perfect but let's not overreact to a loss to a team most had in the top 3 at the beginning of the year. Euro's washing out? First I don't think Krivas or Vessar are Euro's but if they are how about Tublius or was leading the league in scoring and rebounding a wash out in you mind? Take a step back and relax. Lots of season still to come. This team has one starter back and a bunch of pieces that Tommy is trying to figure how to use them together. Are they the right piece? I don't know but excited they are here and that we have a coach that will make the most of their abilities. Oh and for a guy that can't shoot I think Caleb is among the top 5 in NCAA scoring that is playing this year. Winger since you just said all our guys are POS I suggest you don't watch anymore games and just enlighten us with your connections. You will feel better and so will most of us optimist fans.

What Bradley played in high school and what he’s capable of playing at this level aren’t necessarily the same thing. Richard Jefferson played center in high school.

Roster construction is about this year. Not what seed we achieved in past years. And this roster is full of holes including starting PF and back-up PG. You mentioned that Tommy is trying to figure out how to play these pieces together. You would hope he would have already had that vision when he recruited them and then honed it during off-season practices. If he’s still trying to figure it out after the season has started that means it’s not a well-constructed roster.

Caleb’s shooting woes are apparent to anyone who is watching the games. He’s at 32% overall shooting for the season and 21% from 3. But it’s only 4 games! Well, the last ten games of last year he shot 33% overall and 23% from 3 including games where he went 0-6, 1-7, 3-12, and 0-9 against Clemson. Slumps don’t usually carry over from one season to the next. And for Lloyd’s offense to work we need shooters who will spread the floor. No defense is scared of Love shooting the ball so they are clogging the passing lanes.

It’s ok to look at this team and see its flaws. They are staring all of us in the face. Demanding Winger or Choo or anyone else be a rah rah cheerleader and ignore the reasons why we’ve lost these two games and will likely lose more is ridiculous.

[Dave]

Agree 100%. When your 3 starting guards are collectively averaging 27% from 3pt range you are in for a long season. Does anyone know why we decided to leave 2 scholarships open?

[TheCat]

Tommy can have an absolutely shit year due to poor roster construction and still be the long term right guy. He can't let obviously glaring issues like not having a starting guard that can shoot consistently happen again though. All 3 of our guards in a vacuum are great players we would always love to have, but I wouldn't ever have these 3 be my main 3 guards any season ever. They all have the same weaknesses and roughly the same strengths. They don't compliment each other at all.

A season like this is why you'd rather have seen Lloyd coach at a smaller school first so he could have learned lessons like this there instead of here.

How many guards has Lloyd brought in that can shoot?

Is Bradley even a PG? What's his assist % to date this season? 2%?

Lloyd has won a lot of games but what's his grade for PGs here at PGU to date?

What good is Love as a SG if 1) he frequently can't shoot and 2) when he is off he doesn't do anything else and 3) he is a liability defensively? Where has the "we're going to get Caleb driving, especially to his left, here at Arizona" gone? Shelved for "this season I am going to be a catch-and-shoot (air-balls lol) guy"?

I like Lewis, but for now he needs to be a zero-and-D guy and surrounded by players who can score.

Townsend is a 3 who can't shoot playing the 4 and, like so many other DGTs and 1-season transfer guys, can't do what he does at this level often enough.

ADO should never have been added.

Krivas and Veessaar have potential, but how many euros under Lloyd at Arizona have washed out without fulfilling their potential? How much longer do we need to wait? If you're going to play either, similar to Lewis, they both need to be surrounded by scorers, you can forget about using them as a legit block threat against anyone good, and you definitely can't play both together.

Martinez? Please.

Carter looks like he may have it, but imv he needs the lion's share of the minutes at the 4. Starting now. He is TBD, but looking favorable, imo.

Point being: how many lessons has Lloyd learned when it comes to roster construction?

Did he really like all these guys or rather are they more-so simply the best he can/could get/afford?

People are just fn stupid after a loss. Is Bradley even a pg? He was rated out of high school as a top 3 pg. Roster construction? Wow in his 4th year. Couple of number 1 or 2 seeds and you question if he can construct a roster? Not saying this one is perfect but let's not overreact to a loss to a team most had in the top 3 at the beginning of the year. Euro's washing out? First I don't think Krivas or Vessar are Euro's but if they are how about Tublius or was leading the league in scoring and rebounding a wash out in you mind? Take a step back and relax. Lots of season still to come. This team has one starter back and a bunch of pieces that Tommy is trying to figure how to use them together. Are they the right piece? I don't know but excited they are here and that we have a coach that will make the most of their abilities. Oh and for a guy that can't shoot I think Caleb is among the top 5 in NCAA scoring that is playing this year. Winger since you just said all our guys are POS I suggest you don't watch anymore games and just enlighten us with your connections. You will feel better and so will most of us optimist fans.

Pretty secure with my ability to scout and evaluate Arizona basketball players but before calling someone stupid maybe take a second to Google “European countries”.

This is Lloyd’s 2nd team without the stars being Miller’s players ftr, and we’re only 4 games in to squad #2.

So Tommy's success was because of Miller's players? The guy that went out and recruited a bunch of European players and many felt it was time to move on?
How did Lloyd's 1st squad do?
Your ability to scout and evaluate players. You are just a bit full of yourself so sit back down and watch a team that you think is put together to your standards and enjoy. No team is perfect. The joy in watching a teams success is watching them overcome struggle and playing to their ability and together.
I didn't by the way call you stupid. People react disproportionate to losses on most fan sites especially this one.

[TheCat]

Tommy can have an absolutely shit year due to poor roster construction and still be the long term right guy. He can't let obviously glaring issues like not having a starting guard that can shoot consistently happen again though. All 3 of our guards in a vacuum are great players we would always love to have, but I wouldn't ever have these 3 be my main 3 guards any season ever. They all have the same weaknesses and roughly the same strengths. They don't compliment each other at all.

A season like this is why you'd rather have seen Lloyd coach at a smaller school first so he could have learned lessons like this there instead of here.

How many guards has Lloyd brought in that can shoot?

Is Bradley even a PG? What's his assist % to date this season? 2%?

Lloyd has won a lot of games but what's his grade for PGs here at PGU to date?

What good is Love as a SG if 1) he frequently can't shoot and 2) when he is off he doesn't do anything else and 3) he is a liability defensively? Where has the "we're going to get Caleb driving, especially to his left, here at Arizona" gone? Shelved for "this season I am going to be a catch-and-shoot (air-balls lol) guy"?

I like Lewis, but for now he needs to be a zero-and-D guy and surrounded by players who can score.

Townsend is a 3 who can't shoot playing the 4 and, like so many other DGTs and 1-season transfer guys, can't do what he does at this level often enough.

ADO should never have been added.

Krivas and Veessaar have potential, but how many euros under Lloyd at Arizona have washed out without fulfilling their potential? How much longer do we need to wait? If you're going to play either, similar to Lewis, they both need to be surrounded by scorers, you can forget about using them as a legit block threat against anyone good, and you definitely can't play both together.

Martinez? Please.

Carter looks like he may have it, but imv he needs the lion's share of the minutes at the 4. Starting now. He is TBD, but looking favorable, imo.

Point being: how many lessons has Lloyd learned when it comes to roster construction?

Did he really like all these guys or rather are they more-so simply the best he can/could get/afford?

People are just fn stupid after a loss. Is Bradley even a pg? He was rated out of high school as a top 3 pg. Roster construction? Wow in his 4th year. Couple of number 1 or 2 seeds and you question if he can construct a roster? Not saying this one is perfect but let's not overreact to a loss to a team most had in the top 3 at the beginning of the year. Euro's washing out? First I don't think Krivas or Vessar are Euro's but if they are how about Tublius or was leading the league in scoring and rebounding a wash out in you mind? Take a step back and relax. Lots of season still to come. This team has one starter back and a bunch of pieces that Tommy is trying to figure how to use them together. Are they the right piece? I don't know but excited they are here and that we have a coach that will make the most of their abilities. Oh and for a guy that can't shoot I think Caleb is among the top 5 in NCAA scoring that is playing this year. Winger since you just said all our guys are POS I suggest you don't watch anymore games and just enlighten us with your connections. You will feel better and so will most of us optimist fans.

What Bradley played in high school and what he’s capable of playing at this level aren’t necessarily the same thing. Richard Jefferson played center in high school.

Roster construction is about this year. Not what seed we achieved in past years. And this roster is full of holes including starting PF and back-up PG. You mentioned that Tommy is trying to figure out how to play these pieces together. You would hope he would have already had that vision when he recruited them and then honed it during off-season practices. If he’s still trying to figure it out after the season has started that means it’s not a well-constructed roster.

Caleb’s shooting woes are apparent to anyone who is watching the games. He’s at 32% overall shooting for the season and 21% from 3. But it’s only 4 games! Well, the last ten games of last year he shot 33% overall and 23% from 3 including games where he went 0-6, 1-7, 3-12, and 0-9 against Clemson. Slumps don’t usually carry over from one season to the next. And for Lloyd’s offense to work we need shooters who will spread the floor. No defense is scared of Love shooting the ball so they are clogging the passing lanes.

It’s ok to look at this team and see its flaws. They are staring all of us in the face. Demanding Winger or Choo or anyone else be a rah rah cheerleader and ignore the reasons why we’ve lost these two games and will likely lose more is ridiculous.

You wont get any arguments from me that Love is struggling but evaluating him over a handful of games ignores what he has shown over 4 years. I don't care whether Winger or Choo are rah rah. Winger just went through our entire roster and said they were shit. Well go watch a team that is not. This team has flaws. Which one doesn't? Let's see if they are strong enough to fight through them. I don't know if they are.
But that is the beauty of watching kids play and develop. No one has rose color glasses on. We are picked to finish 5th in our new conference. We will struggle to win games where in the PAC the question was whether we were going to be first or second. That is a mind shift that I think most here will struggle with.
Your comparison of Bradley to Jefferson makes little sense to me but my point was he was "evaluated" in his position and found to be top 5 in the country. I assume the people that evaluated him know more than the fans on this site but maybe I'm wrong.

[EastCoastCat]

I’m hoping that for once we stumble out of the gate and then gel late when the games really count like in the Tourney.

[Chicat]

The “go watch some other team if you’re going to be critical” trope is about the dumbest one out there. I’m sure I’ve made it before since I’m not above saying dumb shit but nothing Winger or Choo or anyone has said would indicate they don’t love Arizona Basketball. In fact, it’s the exact opposite.

[azcat49]

I think Wingers analysis is spot on. Love might be one of the worst SG1 in high level college ball. His shot selection is terrible and I was amazed Tommy brought him back

He had to be wondering where we would get points from and that also led to the quick decision to sign ADO, who can’t defend and even struggles to play with effort IMO.

Townsend isn’t a 4 and Tommy seemed to know that when encouraging him to hoist three’s. He just isn’t comfortable with that.

A disturbing trend to me is that we have not beat a P4 +.500!team since beating Oregon last March. We have lost our last 4 games vs Oregon (P12 tourney), Clemson, Wisky and Duke.

Tommy said pre season that this might be one of our best defensive teams and I have not seen any evidence of that. I do think we will get better but this is a team with plenty of deficiencies

[Winger]

Problem with Love has always been that he has never been a good shooter.

3FG shooting: 26.6% then 36%, then 30%, and then for Arizona 33% last season and 21% so far for this one.

His eFG% has been meh his entire career as well: ranging from a low of 37% to a high of 50% (last season) and he currently sits at 38% this season.

Accordingly, expecting him to be a good or better shooter flies in the face of 4+ seasons of data.

On an overall basis shooting for college basketball players improves across their careers, but the biggest jump is season 1 to season 2, and it is a law of diminishing returns from there.

Something else* besides Love's shot is going to have to change because at this point his shot isn't.

* - shot selection

[Djcat]

Agree with most of the posters here, this team doesn’t pass the “eye test”. Chemistry is not there and Love has been bad since the exhibition games. Something seems off with him. Team not making free throws is really telling. JB is usually reliable with FT and he missed 6 in a row during the wisky game.

Some are saying it’s only 4 games but last two games showed the world that effort and performance seem lacking. It’s a strong indication of how this team will perform rest of the way.

I know some won’t like this take but I don’t see a tournament team right now. All this talk about getting better and ready for the tournament is way premature.

[Merkin]

His shot selection is terrible and I was amazed Tommy brought him back

Lloyd certainly has Tomey like loyalty to his upperclassmen.

Obviously don't know anything, but I wonder how much is on Tommy letting Love back due to pressure from the booster who ponied up all the Love NIL money? Huge donor boosters want to see something for their money. Look at Cam Rising.

Love said something interesting the other day, said that he needs to wait for the right opening to shoot. No doubt Tommy telling him to only fire up a 3 in a catch and shoot situation, no more on ball shooting.

But even down to Duke by double digits, Love passed up a couple of good looks. Lack of confidence now? Nothing like a little pine time to get your head on straight.

But Lloyd's comments after Duke makes it very clear that Love is the guy, period. Prone to getting a lot of points, but needs a lot of shots to do it.

Even with Love having a couple of good games v. Duke while at UNC, he was very inefficient. Before the Duke game the other night, Love was shooting 26.1 3PT% lifetime v. Duke, with some good wins in there.

[AZCatGirl]

Obviously don't know anything, but I wonder how much is on Tommy letting Love back due to pressure from the booster who ponied up all the Love NIL money? Huge donor boosters want to see something for their money. Look at Cam Rising.

Cam Rising is what immediately came to my mind as well. We might be stuck with Love starting every game and getting tons of playing time simply because of that big booster.

Guess we'll just have to hope he gets hot in March.

[Chicat]

Obviously don't know anything, but I wonder how much is on Tommy letting Love back due to pressure from the booster who ponied up all the Love NIL money? Huge donor boosters want to see something for their money. Look at Cam Rising.

Cam Rising is what immediately came to mind to me as well. We might be stuck with Love starting every game and getting tons of playing time simply because of that big booster.

Guess we'll just have to hope he gets hot in March.

What we’ll have to hope is that when he does get hot it’s needed and when he goes cold it doesn’t kill us. But teams have figured out that their best defense against us is letting us shoot and none of the guards are setting the world on fire from distance.

[TheCat]

The “go watch some other team if you’re going to be critical” trope is about the dumbest one out there. I’m sure I’ve made it before since I’m not above saying dumb shit but nothing Winger or Choo or anyone has said would indicate they don’t love Arizona Basketball. In fact, it’s the exact opposite.

Chi if you can not find a single player that is worth anything as Winger pointed out why make yourself unhappy. If you are like Choo and wish our coach went to a mid-major first in order to work out the kinks (most absurd statement considering his record) then there is no hope of figuring it out since Tommy should be at a lesser school to earn his wings. Make yourself happy and avoid the aggravation. Come back when you think we have the perfect roster.
Don't enjoy the struggle. Don't enjoy the success that comes with player development. Don't watch the lineups develop that will help with deficiencies in the roster. Why be hopeful?
Or be reasonable in your expectations. Recognize that having only one starter back was going to be an issue until they have time together as starters. Recognize that losing Ballo (a player I might add that was ridiculed early on by this fan base) was going to be a challenge. Ignore the success Arizona has had in figuring it out whether it was Miller or Tommy. Ignore the PAC championships and focus on the negative. Don't find any success unless you win the NCAA championship. Don't acknowledge this is a different world in college sports and that most likely having top 5 recruiting classes are going to be much more difficult. Remain miserable and bitch a lot because YOUR expectation are not being met.

[pc in NM]

His shot selection is terrible and I was amazed Tommy brought him back

Lloyd certainly has Tomey like loyalty to his upperclassmen.

Obviously don't know anything, but I wonder how much is on Tommy letting Love back due to pressure from the booster who ponied up all the Love NIL money? Huge donor boosters want to see something for their money. Look at Cam Rising.

Love said something interesting the other day, said that he needs to wait for the right opening to shoot. No doubt Tommy telling him to only fire up a 3 in a catch and shoot situation, no more on ball shooting.

But even down to Duke by double digits, Love passed up a couple of good looks. Lack of confidence now? Nothing like a little pine time to get your head on straight.

But Lloyd's comments after Duke makes it very clear that Love is the guy, period. Prone to getting a lot of points, but needs a lot of shots to do it.

Even with Love having a couple of good games v. Duke while at UNC, he was very inefficient. Before the Duke game the other night, Love was shooting 26.1 3PT% lifetime v. Duke, with some good wins in there.

"Loyalty to his upperclassmen"?

• Tell that to Oumar Ballo? Four years with CTL..

• Caleb a senior, but only one year with CTL. And he was an All-American & Pac-12 POY

"due to pressure from the booster"? Yes, you "don't know anything", but such a claim casts aspersions on CTL's coaching character, which is a big step! IMNSHO, everything I've seen about CTL is that he's a high quality character...

Interesting that Jada Williams is having similar shooting issues to Caleb starting the season, yet, like Caleb, she is making big contributions (both ones that show on the box scores, and more that don't)

It's only four games into the season. Arizona has only one returning starter. Krivas hasn't been able to practice with the team. Veesaar missed all last season.

I think Bradley and Lewis are filling their roles very well. Cater looks like an emerging star and will be getting ample PT.

And Duke looks like an amazing team with the top-rated recruiting class ( with the highest rated recruit in... decades. And Wisconsin. looks like the surprise team of the early season (they dismantled UCF easily).... No need to panic in either of those losses.

I think criticism is always appropriate for fans on a site like this, but I think for our own players it should be constructive and respectful. I mean, there's no malfeasance or illegal behavior involved. Let's get through the pre-cpnference season before drawing harsh conclusions...

[Chicat]

The “go watch some other team if you’re going to be critical” trope is about the dumbest one out there. I’m sure I’ve made it before since I’m not above saying dumb shit but nothing Winger or Choo or anyone has said would indicate they don’t love Arizona Basketball. In fact, it’s the exact opposite.

Chi……

That was a very long straw man take and you should have enough respect for your fellow fan not to assign them outlandish emotions not anywhere in evidence. Really, it’s embarrassing for you.

[TucsonClip]

Problem with Love has always been that he has never been a good shooter.

3FG shooting: 26.6% then 36%, then 30%, and then for Arizona 33% last season and 21% so far for this one.

His eFG% has been meh his entire career as well: ranging from a low of 37% to a high of 50% (last season) and he currently sits at 38% this season.

Accordingly, expecting him to be a good or better shooter flies in the face of 4+ seasons of data.

On an overall basis shooting for college basketball players improves across their careers, but the biggest jump is season 1 to season 2, and it is a law of diminishing returns from there.

Something else* besides Love's shot is going to have to change because at this point his shot isn't.

* - shot selection

Not to mention, because of his penchant to fire off the dribble jumpers, his FTr is horrific for someone with his skill level.

Fore reference, Love has a career FTr of .26. Kerr Kriisa, whom nobody expected to ever draw FTs, has a career FTr of .18. Allonzo Tier was at .54

[TheCat]

The “go watch some other team if you’re going to be critical” trope is about the dumbest one out there. I’m sure I’ve made it before since I’m not above saying dumb shit but nothing Winger or Choo or anyone has said would indicate they don’t love Arizona Basketball. In fact, it’s the exact opposite.

Chi……

That was a very long straw man take and you should have enough respect for your fellow fan not to assign them outlandish emotions not anywhere in evidence. Really, it’s embarrassing for you.

Not sure what you are talking about. Winger said those things about each player (never mentioned that our "suppose pg" as had some improvement with his shot, KJ defense is elite or that we held Duke to 16 points below their average). Maybe there is some good in that badly constructed team. He did express confidence in HIS player evaluation.
Choo wished Tommy had mid-major experience before coming here so he wouldn't have so many holes in the roster. I find that curious considering his record. To quote him "A season like this is why you'd rather have seen Lloyd coach at a smaller school first so he could have learned lessons like this there instead of here" That is what you are saying about a coach that after his first 3 season has more NCAA wins than all but 1 in history and we are not playing cupcakes. Is that a bit of an overreaction or do you agree Chi?

That is what they said not what was assigned to them.

[Djcat]

Let’s be real here Duke is not an “amazing” team. Good yes, but offensively they have issues. Even their fan base recognized it. Last year’s Cats would have destroyed this Duke team at home.

[Winger]

Problem with Love has always been that he has never been a good shooter.

3FG shooting: 26.6% then 36%, then 30%, and then for Arizona 33% last season and 21% so far for this one.

His eFG% has been meh his entire career as well: ranging from a low of 37% to a high of 50% (last season) and he currently sits at 38% this season.

Accordingly, expecting him to be a good or better shooter flies in the face of 4+ seasons of data.

On an overall basis shooting for college basketball players improves across their careers, but the biggest jump is season 1 to season 2, and it is a law of diminishing returns from there.

Something else* besides Love's shot is going to have to change because at this point his shot isn't.

* - shot selection

Not to mention, because of his penchant to fire off the dribble jumpers, his FTr is horrific for someone with his skill level.

Fore reference, Love has a career FTr of .26. Kerr Kriisa, whom nobody expected to ever draw FTs, has a career FTr of .18. Allonzo Tier was at .54

Which is a big part of why Lloyd was stressing him taking the ball to the rack more at the start of last season. It is also a part of when he is off not getting much of anything else out of him.

Look, imv last season Lloyd brought out something close to Plato’s Caleb Love Form. From there it seemed likely that there would be some regression to the mean this season. Or, dismissing that, that the best you could expect was play at a similar level and of a similar type. If last season wasn’t good enough for you — you needed to move on.

Sometimes, especially for good teams, the right moves aren’t obvious but I remain convinced that what I posted shortly after the Clemson game — that Lloyd and Arizona needed to move on from Boswell (can’t have that many no shows from your PG), Ballo (can’t run an offense around a guy that needs to change his shot hand to try and make FTs), and Love (can’t be controlled and Lloyd doesn’t do that kind of thing anyway and will ultimately shoot you to too many losses) — was the right move.

Hopefully I will end up being wrong on Love.

But man it doesn’t look good right now at all and watching him vs Duke I had the occasional thought that he has his $$$, has acquiesced to his future, and is now mailing it in.

Arizona Basketball is asking for $25,000 NIL commitments from low level “boosters”. If you were assessing that critically would you be convinced that Lloyd - Arizona - Big XII is worthy of that at this point?

Tough call imo.

[AZCatGirl]

Really surprised we didn't drop out. Hope we can rebound this week.

[TheCat]

FYI.....
It’s the 61st consecutive week Arizona has been ranked, the fourth-longest active streak in college basketball and fifth-longest streak in school history.

Not bad for a mid major coach.

We are going to take our lumps this year being in a new conference. I have renewed my commitment to not come to this site for at least a few days after each loss. Everyone here wants a tough schedule but what they want more is to win every game. We will be tested in most games this season. I am sure even seasoned fans are not going to be ready for that.

[pc in NM]

So, let's stop the stupid "mid-major coach" bs, eh???

He was a critical part of building Gonzaga from an average mid-major program into the premier D1 program in the West! Yes, Gonzaga is today that program!!

[U.P. Zona Fan]

We really need 2 wins this weekend, I was looking at our big XII schedule, we could feasibly lose 11 of those games. We really need to figure some crap out, this year is gonna be brutal.

[Postmaster]

Really surprised we didn't drop out. Hope we can rebound this week.

Literally

[TheCat]

We really need 2 wins this weekend, I was looking at our big XII schedule, we could feasibly lose 11 of those games. We really need to figure some crap out, this year is gonna be brutal.

I think that is about accurate. The fifth place team (where we are projected) in the Big 12 lost 9 conference games last year. That would be brutal in the PAC but not in this league

[Winger]

We really need 2 wins this weekend, I was looking at our big XII schedule, we could feasibly lose 11 of those games. We really need to figure some crap out, this year is gonna be brutal.

I think that is about accurate. The fifth place team (where we are projected) in the Big 12 lost 9 conference games last year. That would be brutal in the PAC but not in this league

Point taken, but it’s going to be a bit apples and oranges.

BYU and Kansas tied for 5th last season at 11-8, followed by UT and TCU tied for 7th at 10-9. All those teams (8 of 14) made the tournament.

This season the conference has 16 as opposed to 14 teams and will play a more unbalanced schedule of 20 games compared to 16. That could affect how things shake out with regard to tournament bids.

More importantly, the Big 12 was the KP #1 conference last season, though as is common, people who prop the conference forget or dismiss its very poor NCAA Tournament showing. This season the Big 12 isn’t off to a great start. Currently sits at KP #2 but the #3 conference (B1G) is right behind and …

Cinci at 5-0 has played nobody.
Houston has lost to the only good team it played (Auburn).
Ditto ISU (also lost to Auburn).
Baylor is 4-2 having been blown out by Gonzaga and Tennessee.
Arizona is 2-2 having been smoked by Wisky and Duke.
And, the rest of the conference has lost to every single good or better team it has played.

Too offset that KU is 4-0 with good wins over MSU and UNC but watchout the Hawks have Duke tonight. And in addition to the 2 losses Baylor has good wins over St Johns and possibly Arkansas.

But that’s it. 3 or 4 good wins at this point coupled with an otherwise roughly 0-13 record vs the good or better teams nationally.

Still a ways to go for the conference but it has work to do, starting this week,

Point being: Arizona can’t mail in the OOC relying on say a 10-10 conference record to get it into the tournament. To say nothing of the short-term damage to the brand being unranked and not mattering all season would bring.

It’s impossible to say what Arizona “needs” this early but if you’re hoping for a Top 4 seed and mattering nationally this season it seems a win over Davidson and then either OU or Providence, followed by a competitive showing in the Championship game, would be a good start.

And as important as that showing (and hopefully a win over Dickhead Mick and UCLA) would be, demonstrating that Arizona can in fact play the game at a high level would be big too. Lloyd is 5-0 at Arizona in OOC Tournament games, wining the Roman event in Vegas and Maui, and stamping that this squad is good enough to do the same would also go a ways to show that the 2 losses so far were outliers and not emblematic of a lack of talent/fit.

At this point, I’d be stoked with 8-3 OOC including a win over UCLA and a competitive showing vs Gonzaga (seems unlikely anyone else out of that side of the bracket will make the champ game).

[Beachcat97]

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

[AZCatGirl]

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

It's Davidson...

If we can't beat Davidson we need to have a whole different discussion than the one we're having now.

[Postmaster]

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

They no longer have Curry?

[Postmaster]

Anyone else think Knipple looks like Lady Mormont from Bear Island?

[Beachcat97]

At this point, I’d be stoked with 8-3 OOC including a win over UCLA and a competitive showing vs Gonzaga (seems unlikely anyone else out of that side of the bracket will make the champ game).

We’re not beating ucla. That team is waaaaay ahead of us development-wise. Watched them annihilate their opponent tonight.

[AZCatGirl]

At this point, I’d be stoked with 8-3 OOC including a win over UCLA and a competitive showing vs Gonzaga (seems unlikely anyone else out of that side of the bracket will make the champ game).

We’re not beating ucla. That team is waaaaay ahead of us development-wise. Watched them annihilate their opponent tonight.

We'd annihilate Southern Utah as well. I'm not sure why you think we can't beat UCLA when the only decent school they've played is New Mexico and lost to them.

Not saying we'll win, just don't get why you think we have no chance. UCLA would get their butts kicked by Wisconsin and Duke as well.

[gronk4heisman]

At this point, I’d be stoked with 8-3 OOC including a win over UCLA and a competitive showing vs Gonzaga (seems unlikely anyone else out of that side of the bracket will make the champ game).

We’re not beating ucla. That team is waaaaay ahead of us development-wise. Watched them annihilate their opponent tonight.

Cool story bro

[PHXCATS]

At this point, I’d be stoked with 8-3 OOC including a win over UCLA and a competitive showing vs Gonzaga (seems unlikely anyone else out of that side of the bracket will make the champ game).

We’re not beating ucla. That team is waaaaay ahead of us development-wise. Watched them annihilate their opponent tonight.

Want to bet on it?

UA wins You don't post the rest of the season

UCLA wins I won't post the of the season

Deal?

[Winger]

At this point, I’d be stoked with 8-3 OOC including a win over UCLA and a competitive showing vs Gonzaga (seems unlikely anyone else out of that side of the bracket will make the champ game).

We’re not beating ucla. That team is waaaaay ahead of us development-wise. Watched them annihilate their opponent tonight.

Always take good offense over defense. Mick is a lousy coach with a piss poor system. I am spooked by what Arizona has looked like so far but if we can handle their physicality I like our chances. If we cant beat UCLA imv the ceiling for this season lowers.

[Fishclamps]

At this point, I’d be stoked with 8-3 OOC including a win over UCLA and a competitive showing vs Gonzaga (seems unlikely anyone else out of that side of the bracket will make the champ game).

We’re not beating ucla. That team is waaaaay ahead of us development-wise. Watched them annihilate their opponent tonight.

UCLA looks worse than they normally do, I wouldn't trust them to win shit

[AZCatGirl]

Looks like we don't have to worry about Gonzaga unless we lose to Davidson.

[azcat49]

Davidson has a couple guys that have them in the top 10 in protection at the rim. They are a very experienced team on the perimeter. Very surprised the spread is 16 points. Doubly surprised if we cover that line

[TheCat]

We won't win by 16 that is a joke. Good teams are losing everywhere (see Zags, UCONN twice and Indiana). NIL is what bought Memphis a team and they have a few good players. Not sure what this season is going to look like but upset early is the rule not the exception this year.

[84Cat]

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

How'd we do?

[84Cat]

We won't win by 16 that is a joke. Good teams are losing everywhere (see Zags, UCONN twice and Indiana). NIL is what bought Memphis a team and they have a few good players. Not sure what this season is going to look like but upset early is the rule not the exception this year.

16

[PHXCATS]

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

CoNvInCe Me We CaN wIn ToMoRrOw

[TheCat]

Problem with Love has always been that he has never been a good shooter.

3FG shooting: 26.6% then 36%, then 30%, and then for Arizona 33% last season and 21% so far for this one.

His eFG% has been meh his entire career as well: ranging from a low of 37% to a high of 50% (last season) and he currently sits at 38% this season.

Accordingly, expecting him to be a good or better shooter flies in the face of 4+ seasons of data.

On an overall basis shooting for college basketball players improves across their careers, but the biggest jump is season 1 to season 2, and it is a law of diminishing returns from there.

Something else* besides Love's shot is going to have to change because at this point his shot isn't.

* - shot selection

Caleb is struggling as we can all see. What we also know is he ranks eighth in University of North Carolina (UNC) history for three-pointers made with 200. That is 8th after 3 years not 4 or 5. Love also had a streak of 86 consecutive games with at least one three-pointer made between the 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons. Everybody knows about his tournament performance against Duke while at NC. He has struggled this year I think because he is trying to change his game. He was the PAC player of the year although he disappeared at time. His final story is being written as we speak. I hope it is a good one for AZ and Caleb.

[84Cat]

We're favored by 4.5 over Oklahoma

[Beachcat97]

We're favored by 4.5 over Oklahoma

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

[PHXCATS]

We're favored by 4.5 over Oklahoma

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

CoNvInCe Me

[Chicat]

We're favored by 4.5 over Oklahoma

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

Mercury is in retrograde.

[AZCatGirl]

We're favored by 4.5 over Oklahoma

Convince me we can win tomorrow.

So you're just going to keep doing this until we lose.

What fun...

[U.P. Zona Fan]

We will have the 3 best players on the court most of the time. We can and should win this game. Should be the same for Louisville, and will have 3 of the best 4 against West Virginia. Doesn't guarantee a win but you aren't starting off in a hole.