2025-26 Arizona Basketball

[84Cat]

Holding schools in limbo really blows. Had to be a better way to coordinate the timelines of college bball and the NBA draft

It's my understanding that the "transfer window" is not a deadline for athletes to actually commit to a new school. They can still transfer and commit to other schools at any time after entering the portal, as long as they meet the necessary admissions and academic requirements.

If that's correct, then waiting for NBA decision does NOT hold a school in "limbo".

AND, BTW, I still think CTL needs a couple of transfers in any case. That's especially true if ADO's usage will/would be significantly different next season. (I see no need for that myself).

I'm hoping for a 9-10 man rotation.

Most guys that are any good don't transfer to get 10 minutes a game

[Winger]

Holding schools in limbo really blows. Had to be a better way to coordinate the timelines of college bball and the NBA draft

It's my understanding that the "transfer window" is not a deadline for athletes to actually commit to a new school. They can still transfer and commit to other schools at any time after entering the portal, as long as they meet the necessary admissions and academic requirements.

If that's correct, then waiting for NBA decision does NOT hold a school in "limbo".

AND, BTW, I still think CTL needs a couple of transfers in any case. That's especially true if ADO's usage will/would be significantly different next season. (I see no need for that myself).

I'm hoping for a 9-10 man rotation.

True

You can leave the portal anytime. You must enter the portal by certain deadlines

Jimmy Buckets is willing to leave State University for Arizona but only for Arizona and isn’t putting his name in the portal until he knows he has Bryant’s spot.

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

[Chicat]

For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

Flash to…

*Tommy doing an impromptu interview with a local station at fall practice talking about how ADO has been a valuable member of the team as a starter and how much flexibility he gives us, as in the background he gets repeatedly cooked on defense by one of the student managers

[pc in NM]

Holding schools in limbo really blows. Had to be a better way to coordinate the timelines of college bball and the NBA draft

It's my understanding that the "transfer window" is not a deadline for athletes to actually commit to a new school. They can still transfer and commit to other schools at any time after entering the portal, as long as they meet the necessary admissions and academic requirements.

If that's correct, then waiting for NBA decision does NOT hold a school in "limbo".

AND, BTW, I still think CTL needs a couple of transfers in any case. That's especially true if ADO's usage will/would be significantly different next season. (I see no need for that myself).

I'm hoping for a 9-10 man rotation.

True

You can leave the portal anytime. You must enter the portal by certain deadlines

Jimmy Buckets is willing to leave State University for Arizona but only for Arizona and isn’t putting his name in the portal until he knows he has Bryant’s spot.

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

The opposition to ADO (starting, primarily, or even playing, for some) puzzles me. He does not get starter minutes - lowest PT among the 8-man rotation.

BUT, and this is primary for me, this last season, especially when he first became a starter, he helped establish good ball and off-ball movement establishing our offensive patterns. The team had a tendency much/most of the season, to stand and dribble too much on the perimeter, while others stood around; entry passes into the interior sucked also - ADO was the best entry passer most of the season. IMNSHO, just his first 4-5 minutes assisted in the designed offensive flow and subs were more likely to continue that. ADO was less TO prone also, especially compared to KJ.

His "D" is definitely his weak point, but I also think that was greatly overemphasized - I wished our chats were more focused on such specifics, but they seldom are. Mistakes stand out (for some more than others), and success is expected, and not noted...

I'm happy to have ADO return as a regular part of our rotation - 8, 9 or 10.

But, I don't think an 8-man rotation especially one relying on three frosh ain't gonna cut it - either in conference, or to get beyond the Sweet 16.

[Chicat]

The opposition to ADO (starting, primarily, or even playing, for some) puzzles me. He does not get starter minutes - lowest PT among the 8-man rotation.

I don’t mind him playing in spurts to take advantage of matchups. I do mind him starting and playing against the opposition’s best lineup and us getting down by 6-8 points because he can’t guard his man.

This year without KJ having to come off the bench (for some reason), my hope is that ADO can be that 8th guy who comes in and gives us a spark by hitting some threes, or will be in at the end to protect a lead with free throw shooting. If he’s still starting, I’ll seriously question CTL’s coaching acumen or eyesight.

[pc in NM]

The opposition to ADO (starting, primarily, or even playing, for some) puzzles me. He does not get starter minutes - lowest PT among the 8-man rotation.

I don’t mind him playing in spurts to take advantage of matchups. Samantha Odom

This year without KJ having to come off the bench (for some reason), my hope is that ADO can be that 8th guy who comes in and gives us a spark by hitting some threes, or will be in at the end to protect a lead with free throw shooting. If he’s still starting, I’ll seriously question CTL’s coaching acumen or eyesight.

Please name the specific occasions where ADO was, himself, responsible for the team getting into a 6-8 point deficit. BE SPECIFIC - I doubt you can name three.... early deficits did happen early too often - but, the starting five have owned that much more often than did ADO.

Question "CTL’s coaching acumen or eyesight" all you want. I'll choose to trust him. Actually, using ADO in the first 5 minutes of a half proved successful, and, probably was the best utilization of his available minutes; I would prefer him in their to establish the offensive structure, than to think of him as a "spark" is not the best use of his limited talents.

I think CTL gave one of his best coaching performances at Arizona this past season. Looks like he's building to have more talent next season (I hope so), but that building is not done.

Losing Henri and KJ is a novel experience for CTL - neither of these guys have approached their top performance ability - we've lost "expendable" players before (Krissa, Ballo, Boswell), but both these guys were top performers who were expected to return. (Next, we'll have fans questioning CTL for "chasing off players" a la Adia! )

[Chicat]

Please name the specific occasions where ADO was, himself, responsible for the team getting into a 6-8 point deficit. BE SPECIFIC -

No problem! Just go ahead and hold your breath while I break down the tape for you. I’ll get right on that.

[pc in NM]

Please name the specific occasions where ADO was, himself, responsible for the team getting into a 6-8 point deficit. BE SPECIFIC -

No problem! Just go ahead and hold your breath while I break down the tape for you. I’ll get right on that.

Looking forward to it.

[AzCatFan2]

ADO was a defensive liability last year. But, in my opinion, he improved from awful to start the season to bad by the end. I think he has never been in a position where he had to play D that hard every possession, and ADO had to learn. If he can improve from bad to serviceable over the offseason, ADO could be a terrific 6th man.

[Winger]

Actually, using ADO in the first 5 minutes of a half proved successful

Not it wasn’t. Name me 3 times!

If it was successful Lloyd wouldn’t have played him 4 minutes of total gametime outside of his starting minutes to the 1st and 2nd halves. Have posted this a million times but Lloyd showed you, by restricting ADO’s minutes so significantly outside of the starts, that it wasn’t successful. If it was successful the starting 5 would have played more than 4 minutes together outside of the starts to the halves and would have finished games, which it just about never did.

Because ADO (and TT) were unplayable vs. the vast majority of Arizona’s opponents.

And I will give you one example: starring ADO vs Duke to begin the 2nd half cost Arizona any chance it had of coming back and winning that Sweet 16 game.

There are a bunch more but you don’t need any of us to show you. All you have to do is look at ADO’s (lack of …) minutes outside of his starts.

[Chicat]

It’s a shame pc missed so many of our games.

[LuteIsGod]

Holding schools in limbo really blows. Had to be a better way to coordinate the timelines of college bball and the NBA draft

It's my understanding that the "transfer window" is not a deadline for athletes to actually commit to a new school. They can still transfer and commit to other schools at any time after entering the portal, as long as they meet the necessary admissions and academic requirements.

If that's correct, then waiting for NBA decision does NOT hold a school in "limbo".

AND, BTW, I still think CTL needs a couple of transfers in any case. That's especially true if ADO's usage will/would be significantly different next season. (I see no need for that myself).

I'm hoping for a 9-10 man rotation.

True

You can leave the portal anytime. You must enter the portal by certain deadlines

Jimmy Buckets is willing to leave State University for Arizona but only for Arizona and isn’t putting his name in the portal until he knows he has Bryant’s spot.

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

The opposition to ADO (starting, primarily, or even playing, for some) puzzles me. He does not get starter minutes - lowest PT among the 8-man rotation.

BUT, and this is primary for me, this last season, especially when he first became a starter, he helped establish good ball and off-ball movement establishing our offensive patterns. The team had a tendency much/most of the season, to stand and dribble too much on the perimeter, while others stood around; entry passes into the interior sucked also - ADO was the best entry passer most of the season. IMNSHO, just his first 4-5 minutes assisted in the designed offensive flow and subs were more likely to continue that. ADO was less TO prone also, especially compared to KJ.

His "D" is definitely his weak point, but I also think that was greatly overemphasized - I wished our chats were more focused on such specifics, but they seldom are. Mistakes stand out (for some more than others), and success is expected, and not noted...

I'm happy to have ADO return as a regular part of our rotation - 8, 9 or 10.

But, I don't think an 8-man rotation especially one relying on three frosh ain't gonna cut it - either in conference, or to get beyond the Sweet 16.

I agree. His entry passes were consistently solid. I’d like to see him hunt for his shots next season i.e. look for open spots against the D within the 3 line and hit those easy shots plus some 3 balls.
I hope that he can be coached into getting wide and low on D to improve his lateral quickness.

[pc in NM]

Actually, using ADO in the first 5 minutes of a half proved successful

Not it wasn’t. Name me 3 times!

If it was successful Lloyd wouldn’t have played him 4 minutes of total gametime outside of his starting minutes to the 1st and 2nd halves. Have posted this a million times but Lloyd showed you, by restricting ADO’s minutes so significantly outside of the starts, that it wasn’t successful. If it was successful the starting 5 would have played more than 4 minutes together outside of the starts to the halves and would have finished games, which it just about never did.

Because ADO (and TT) were unplayable vs. the vast majority of Arizona’s opponents.

And I will give you one example: starring ADO vs Duke to begin the 2nd half cost Arizona any chance it had of coming back and winning that Sweet 16 game.

There are a bunch more but you don’t need any of us to show you. All you have to do is look at ADO’s (lack of …) minutes outside of his starts.

You haven't provided three games, none with specific details.

Honestly, if starting ADO after what you described was so "unsuccessful.", CTL would have stopped. Nothing else can explain the facts! NOTHING!! Given that he continued to start him each half throughout the entire conference, and both tournaments demonstrates that CTL thought that this was his best option for deploying his time. D'uh!!!

The fallacy you are committing is assuming that CTL believes his starting five are his best players. OBVIOUSLY MISTAKEN.

[pc in NM]

It’s a shame pc missed so many of our games.

The usual total avoidance of any meaningful response...

... so fucking predictable, and boring to boot.

[Chicat]

Honestly, if starting ADO after what you described was so "unsuccessful.", CTL would have stopped. Nothing else can explain the facts! NOTHING!!

Except that KJ wanted to come off the bench and there was no other guard outside of Conrad.

There’s your explanation. You’re welcome.

Are you ADO’s great grandfather or something? Has to be a reason for your adamant defense of a subpar player.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Hey, I thought we had a successful season, especially compared to how I thought thing were gonna go down after the first 9 games. Who knows how many stupid fouls CTL saved KJ from getting by giving him 5 min to watch and see. Plus if you don't give ADO any time, who says he gets put in. And who says he gains the confidence to make plays down the stretch. Or how about if KJ picks up his second foul with 14 min to go in the half, oof, now ADO is out there a long time. And our best defender is in foul trouble the whole game.

I think Tommy turned this season around. I'm never gonna say ADO was one of our best 5 or 6 players, but he played his role well and I was glad we had him and that he stayed. I trust Tommy to make the best out of this year's team as well. I'm really jazzed about it, great recruiting this year. I've heard commentators say if CB comes back we could be preseason #1? That's crazy.

[Winger]

Actually, using ADO in the first 5 minutes of a half proved successful

Not it wasn’t. Name me 3 times!

If it was successful Lloyd wouldn’t have played him 4 minutes of total gametime outside of his starting minutes to the 1st and 2nd halves. Have posted this a million times but Lloyd showed you, by restricting ADO’s minutes so significantly outside of the starts, that it wasn’t successful. If it was successful the starting 5 would have played more than 4 minutes together outside of the starts to the halves and would have finished games, which it just about never did.

Because ADO (and TT) were unplayable vs. the vast majority of Arizona’s opponents.

And I will give you one example: starring ADO vs Duke to begin the 2nd half cost Arizona any chance it had of coming back and winning that Sweet 16 game.

There are a bunch more but you don’t need any of us to show you. All you have to do is look at ADO’s (lack of …) minutes outside of his starts.

You haven't provided three games, none with specific details.

Honestly, if starting ADO after what you described was so "unsuccessful.", CTL would have stopped. Nothing else can explain the facts! NOTHING!! Given that he continued to start him each half throughout the entire conference, and both tournaments demonstrates that CTL thought that this was his best option for deploying his time. D'uh!!!

The fallacy you are committing is assuming that CTL believes his starting five are his best players. OBVIOUSLY MISTAKEN.

None of that is true. Lloyd didn’t have a choice other than playing a 6 man rotation (JB, CL, KJL, CB, HV, TA). He decided a 6 man rotation wasn’t going to work. So he surrounded ADO and TT with what he considered the 3 best players to play them with and tried to ride that for as many minutes as possible.

That being his best option is a very very far cry from it being “successful”.

It wasn’t successful. Despite those 2 playing with our 3/4 best other players (depending on if they played alongside TA vs HV) it was our least effective lineup.

This season wasn’t very successful by Arizona’s standards as well. Which is more proof that it didn’t work.

Losing every OOC game vs a team that wasn’t dogshit led to the worst Arizona OOC performance in forever. Finishing 3/4 in conference isn’t successful. We lost 6 conference games including to most of the better B12 teams we played and finished 5 games out of 1st. And the B12 outside of Houston was nothing to write home about this season as well (3rd best conference by NetRtg, 2 teams in the top 10 at the end of the season and the 2nd was 9th, 2 teams in the G8 1 in the F4). A conference of 1 great team and a bunch of mids. Arizona lost THIRTEEN games and was blown out lost 5 times (and needed a once in a quarter century shot to beat ISU @ home). Arizona started the season ranked #10 and immediately played its way out of the top 25, where it stayed for 9 consecutive weeks. Scratched its way back in to the back end of the top 25 due to a backloaded B12 schedule, only to fall out unranked again the week prior to the B12T; and finished up 15th.

Personally given what he didn’t have (which is his fault) I give Lloyd props for coaching this team to what it accomplished.

But ADO being unplayable doesn’t make the manner in which Lloyd played him “successful”.

[Hank of sb]

ADO was a defensive liability last year. But, in my opinion, he improved from awful to start the season to bad by the end. I think he has never been in a position where he had to play D that hard every possession, and ADO had to learn. If he can improve from bad to serviceable over the offseason, ADO could be a terrific 6th man.

Aristode better be our 6th man.

Duke is inarguably THE best program in the country. That's now settled science. And when Duke offers a guy they probably expect their offers will take up a slot. Aristode said that CTL was on him the longest.

In high school, Aristode was ALWAYS assigned to guard their opponent's best player, no matter the position. IOW, he guarded centers and point guards. I'm guessing that means he possesses not only quick feet but is strong. Apparently he's a great kid, to boot. A leader and it's team first with him. Being # 31 on the recruiting charts is nothing to sneeze at. This team will be loaded with guys who make the NBA and, depending on any portal news, there may be 6/7 that actually get to the NBA, not Europe!

I'm in the camp that ADO makes for an interesting 8th man, a pure shooter.

I hope there are at least 7 guys that get more minutes. I can handle ADO setting strategic minutes as each game requires but starting him makes no sense.

[Chicat]

Hey, I thought we had a successful season, especially compared to how I thought thing were gonna go down after the first 9 games. Who knows how many stupid fouls CTL saved KJ from getting by giving him 5 min to watch and see. Plus if you don't give ADO any time, who says he gets put in. And who says he gains the confidence to make plays down the stretch. Or how about if KJ picks up his second foul with 14 min to go in the half, oof, now ADO is out there a long time. And our best defender is in foul trouble the whole game.

How is it different if KJ picks up his first foul at the 18 minute mark or if he picks it up at the 14 minute mark?

And is that difference more impactful than ADO starting and getting torched by the opposing team’s best players and us being down early or giving up a lead early in the second half?

I thought CTL did a great job this year. His decision to start TT and ADO is still puzzling to me. I thought he should have told KJ to get over it and start the halves because we needed him out there to get us momentum right from the jump and that he trusted him not to pick up stupid fouls rather than watch ADO trailing his man by three steps as he got into the lane and either scored easily or caused Awaka and Henri to pick up fouls we could ill afford.

[azcat49]

Winger isn’t wrong on any of that. TT and ADO were there to simply eat some minutes as you can’t ride 6 in a 40 minute game at that level.

I do think the XII was better than the pollsters and metrics afforded them. I also think CTL did his best coaching job and maybe his worst roster construction all in the same season. Still, I wouldn’t trade him

[pc in NM]

Honestly, if starting ADO after what you described was so "unsuccessful.", CTL would have stopped. Nothing else can explain the facts! NOTHING!!

Except that KJ wanted to come off the bench and there was no other guard outside of Conrad.

There’s your explanation. You’re welcome.

Are you ADO’s great grandfather or something? Has to be a reason for your adamant defense of a subpar player.

Well, that's an entirely novel explanation!!

As I understand it, KJ volunteered to come off the bench; CTL started Bryant in his place vs UCLA - Arizona's 12th game.recall, at that time, Bryant wasn't much better than ADO on defense.

ADO's first start was in the next game vs Samford - Arizona's 13th game. And, three games later, CTL reduced PT to the regualr 8-man rotation he used for the rest of the season., except in late game, garbage time....

No, I'm not ADO's relative; just An Arizona sports fan with different takes than you. I don't understand why differences of opinion trigger you so much and so often...

[Chicat]

I just want to know what it is about pointing out the deficiencies that ADO displayed in particular that gets you so up in arms. Even in game threads, you rode in to his defense when we were all watching him get torched. It was illogical, which is surprising coming from someone who constantly remarks how logic guides their arguments.

[UAEebs86]

I just want to know what it is about pointing out the deficiencies that ADO displayed in particular that gets you so up in arms. Even in game threads, you rode in to his defense when we were all watching him get torched. It was illogical, which is surprising coming from someone who constantly remarks how logic guides their arguments.

Same bat signal he gets for the NY Times.

[Alieberman]

As someone who tried to support ADO all of last year as best as I could and defended Lloyd's position on starting him... It seems pretty obvious that if we want to be an elite team, his role needs to be diminished. Not erased... but limited

[pc in NM]

I just want to know what it is about pointing out the deficiencies that ADO displayed in particular that gets you so up in arms. Even in game threads, you rode in to his defense when we were all watching him get torched. It was illogical, which is surprising coming from someone who constantly remarks how logic guides their arguments.

I've agreed all along that he has defensive deficiencies, though, yes, I think many have grossly overstated them.

I recall (but am not gonna search a 19 page thread to verify) there were times he was harshly criticized during game threads, but mostly those were generalizations, and blatant misplays by others were ignored. I even tried to address that in real time, but no specifics in response.

I've also tried to point out what he does contribute in the first five minutes of halves, but no responses...

I agree ADO was the weakest player in the 8-man rotation. But using him as he did, IMNSHO, I maintain that CTL maximized the value he could get from him, AND that proved to be mostly successful overall.

Please feel free to point out any illogical arguments I've made - but, I assure you, my logic is flawless.

Now, my assessments and opinions about players, coaches and basketball/sports in general are highly imperfect, often mistaken, and subject to change - JUST LIKE YOURS AND EVERYONE ELSE HERE.

[SunnyAZ]

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

ADO is pretty clearly going to be the 1st guard off the bench.

[Chicat]

I did a breakdown in late January of how our points per minute was worse in the first five minutes of the first half than they were the rest of the game.

There’s no science behind it, but I hate playing from behind because I feel like it takes more energy to catch up than it does to defend a lead. A lead also allows you to set the pace, and influence the crowd. On the road allowing a team to get their home crowd into the game early and to dictate pace can be really difficult to overcome. Seems silly just to give KJ that “coming off the bench” mentality but it is working so I should probably quit bitching.

Just because I'm bored- Here are all of scores 5 minutes into the game since we started Big 12 play:

TCU 11-6 (+5)
Cin 6-6 (Even)
WV 8-8 (Even)
UCF 16-12 (+4)
Baylor 7-3 (+4)
Texas Tech 7-9 (-2)
OK ST 10-11 (-1)
Colorado 12-7 (+5)
ISU 6-10 (-4)

Read into this what you want!

We average 1.98 points per minute in conference play overall.

According to your numbers, in the first five minutes of those games we averaged 1.84 points per minute.

If you remove the first five minutes of every game we average 2.1 points per minute for the rest of the game.

Those have been slow starts.

This is where you demand that I prove it was ADO’s fault. Yeah yeah, I get it. Couldn’t possibly be his fault because I can’t prove it was. But…

With Henri replacing TT in the starting lineup we averaged 1.75 points per minute in the first 5 minutes. But our overall ppm for the game went up to 2.2 when Henri was a starter.

Maybe it was JB, or Love, or Awaka, or maybe it was everyone (it is a team game after all), but when a team scores better when a guy who is in solely for his offense leaves the game, maybe he shouldn’t be starting.

[TheCat]

Actually, using ADO in the first 5 minutes of a half proved successful

Not it wasn’t. Name me 3 times!

If it was successful Lloyd wouldn’t have played him 4 minutes of total gametime outside of his starting minutes to the 1st and 2nd halves. Have posted this a million times but Lloyd showed you, by restricting ADO’s minutes so significantly outside of the starts, that it wasn’t successful. If it was successful the starting 5 would have played more than 4 minutes together outside of the starts to the halves and would have finished games, which it just about never did.

Because ADO (and TT) were unplayable vs. the vast majority of Arizona’s opponents.

And I will give you one example: starring ADO vs Duke to begin the 2nd half cost Arizona any chance it had of coming back and winning that Sweet 16 game.

There are a bunch more but you don’t need any of us to show you. All you have to do is look at ADO’s (lack of …) minutes outside of his starts.

You haven't provided three games, none with specific details.

Honestly, if starting ADO after what you described was so "unsuccessful.", CTL would have stopped. Nothing else can explain the facts! NOTHING!! Given that he continued to start him each half throughout the entire conference, and both tournaments demonstrates that CTL thought that this was his best option for deploying his time. D'uh!!!

The fallacy you are committing is assuming that CTL believes his starting five are his best players. OBVIOUSLY MISTAKEN.

None of that is true. Lloyd didn’t have a choice other than playing a 6 man rotation (JB, CL, KJL, CB, HV, TA). He decided a 6 man rotation wasn’t going to work. So he surrounded ADO and TT with what he considered the 3 best players to play them with and tried to ride that for as many minutes as possible.

That being his best option is a very very far cry from it being “successful”.

It wasn’t successful. Despite those 2 playing with our 3/4 best other players (depending on if they played alongside TA vs HV) it was our least effective lineup.

This season wasn’t very successful by Arizona’s standards as well. Which is more proof that it didn’t work.

Losing every OOC game vs a team that wasn’t dogshit led to the worst Arizona OOC performance in forever. Finishing 3/4 in conference isn’t successful. We lost 6 conference games including to most of the better B12 teams we played and finished 5 games out of 1st. And the B12 outside of Houston was nothing to write home about this season as well (3rd best conference by NetRtg, 2 teams in the top 10 at the end of the season and the 2nd was 9th, 2 teams in the G8 1 in the F4). A conference of 1 great team and a bunch of mids. Arizona lost THIRTEEN games and was blown out lost 5 times (and needed a once in a quarter century shot to beat ISU @ home). Arizona started the season ranked #10 and immediately played its way out of the top 25, where it stayed for 9 consecutive weeks. Scratched its way back in to the back end of the top 25 due to a backloaded B12 schedule, only to fall out unranked again the week prior to the B12T; and finished up 15th.

Personally given what he didn’t have (which is his fault) I give Lloyd props for coaching this team to what it accomplished.

But ADO being unplayable doesn’t make the manner in which Lloyd played him “successful”.

Arizona finished higher in the B12 than the experts predicted. I'm not sure what you consider successful by Arizona standards because if those standards were established in the PAC I agree. We either won the conference or the tournament or both. That won't happen in the B12. Arizona lost 80% of their starters last year. They finished 15th in the country, not sure that is a failure especially after the start they had and losing the player that the staff thought would be best on the team. If you considered the B12 one good team and a bunch of mids then what did you consider the PAC which I assume is the standard that Arizona didn't live up to? Arizona started out 10th and not sure how accurate preseason polls are especially on a team that lost 80% of their starters. Preseason polls are a educated guess or Kansas would have ran away with the national championship followed closely by UCONN.

[Winger]

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

ADO is pretty clearly going to be the 1st guard off the bench.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Shoot, ADO starting wouldn’t even surprise me.

Which induces terror. I clearly have ptsd from ADO and TT 1) being signed to Arizona and 2) starting. I am as big a Tommy Lloyd guy as you will find and I wouldn’t trade him for hardly anyone in the country.

But, ADO and TT scare/scared the shit out of me.

Maybe I simply am a fraidycat.

[pc in NM]

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

ADO is pretty clearly going to be the 1st guard off the bench.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Shoot, ADO starting wouldn’t even surprise me.

Which induces terror. I clearly have ptsd from ADO and TT 1) being signed to Arizona and 2) starting. I am as big a Tommy Lloyd guy as you will find and I wouldn’t trade him for hardly anyone in the country.

But, ADO and TT scare/scared the shit out of me.

Maybe I simply am a fraidycat.

Lets not assume a 10-man rotation - we're way short of that at the moment...

Thought experiment - if you HAD to play ADO 10 minutes per game (New Trump EO!!), where would you use him to maximize benefit and reduce costs??

Maybe the first 5 minutes of each half is optimal (and of course, maybe not!). What would you try/do

[UAEebs86]

For starters (pun intended), I would not play him against the other teams best 5 players at their most rested points in the game (beginning of each half).

[Winger]

Arizona finished higher in the B12 than the experts predicted. I'm not sure what you consider successful by Arizona standards because if those standards were established in the PAC I agree. We either won the conference or the tournament or both. That won't happen in the B12. Arizona lost 80% of their starters last year. They finished 15th in the country, not sure that is a failure especially after the start they had and losing the player that the staff thought would be best on the team. If you considered the B12 one good team and a bunch of mids then what did you consider the PAC which I assume is the standard that Arizona didn't live up to? Arizona started out 10th and not sure how accurate preseason polls are especially on a team that lost 80% of their starters. Preseason polls are a educated guess or Kansas would have ran away with the national championship followed closely by UCONN.

Being picked 5th in any conference reflects roster building failure (assuming it doesn’t end up being proven a miseval by say winning the conference championship). Holding that out as an example of Arizona exceeding expectations doesn’t work because the expectation is too low for a program like Arizona (ftr I posted preseason that 5th was too low for Arizona and that I felt some pro-original-Big 12/lack of respect for Arizona in that ballot).

I never posted that the season was a failure stop moving goalposts. I said it wasn’t a success.What I consider the Pac is totally irrelevant, stop creating straw men. Save the dishonest mellowdrama for the sitcom.

My expectation is that Arizona will be a quasi blue blood program. That means beating good teams in the OOC preseason. Contending for conference championships. Being ranked in the top 10 just about all season. And making deep runs in the NCAA tournament which a Sweet 16 loss doesn’t equate to.

By those standards Arizona’s 2024-2025 season was not a success.

In large part because Tommy had to play 2 dudes that couldn’t play at this level (to bring it back to subject).

If your standards for Arizona are lower then you wont see things as I do. You posted most all season that Arizona would be a 6-seed and not to put words in your mouth (sorry in advance if I am misjudging here) you seeded fine with that.

A 6-seed would also be, to me, emblematic of an unsuccessful season.

[Chicat]

For starters (pun intended), I would not play him against the other teams best 5 players at their most rested points in the game (beginning of each half).

Bingo

When their best guard(s) goes out, give our best guard(s) a rest and see if we can run some plays to get ADO open for catch-&-shoot opportunities. If he can hit a couple threes it might pressure the other team to bring their guard back in sooner because we’ve extended a lead or caught up to theirs, and hopefully he’ll be more fatigued later in the game.

[Winger]

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

ADO is pretty clearly going to be the 1st guard off the bench.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Shoot, ADO starting wouldn’t even surprise me.

Which induces terror. I clearly have ptsd from ADO and TT 1) being signed to Arizona and 2) starting. I am as big a Tommy Lloyd guy as you will find and I wouldn’t trade him for hardly anyone in the country.

But, ADO and TT scare/scared the shit out of me.

Maybe I simply am a fraidycat.

Lets not assume a 10-man rotation - we're way short of that at the moment...

Thought experiment - if you HAD to play ADO 10 minutes per game (New Trump EO!!), where would you use him to maximize benefit and reduce costs??

Maybe the first 5 minutes of each half is optimal (and of course, maybe not!). What would you try/do

In competitive games (meaning not blowouts) against teams he can’t defend I wouldn’t play him at all. Zero minutes. Which is why I never would have put him in an Arizona uniform. Especially going in to the Big 12.

If, like for Lloyd last season, I had to play him 10 minutes a game so my squad wouldn’t implode by the end of the season I would try to sneak him on the court against my opposition’s bench players and 1) play a zone and 2) try to slow the game down so there are fewer possessions when he is on the court.

And I sure as heck wouldn’t have him on this 2025-2026 Arizona team*.

Let’s flip the experiment: how would you do it/play him?



* baring a considerable improvement in his strength, athleticism, quickness, speed etc. … which as I understand things hardly ever, if ever, happens for a player going from college season 3 to season 4.

[Alieberman]

Why do I think that ADOs own family don’t talk about him as much as we do?

[Chicat]

Why do I think that ADOs own family don’t talk about him as much as we do?

I’d love to stop talking about him. But I’m afflicted with the same PTSD Winger has.

In fact, I think his man just scored again… (shudder)

[PHXCATS]

I trust Tommy

He will play the guys who gives the best chance to win.

Period

[AzCatFan2]

ADO can be a useful player. As instant offense off the bench against the other team's 2's. I'd also sub ADO in for offense in late game situations. He is a very good shooter, and the best FT shooter on the team. But starting ADO? Not ideal.

[Winger]

Why do I think that ADOs own family don’t talk about him as much as we do?

I’d love to stop talking about him. But I’m afflicted with the same PTSD Winger has.

In fact, I think his man just scored again… (shudder)

I get Al’s point. Will cease and desist on ADO. Think we’d talk about him less if we understood wtf was going on, however. And, if we, like PHX above, trusted Lloyd to do the right thing this upcoming season. Or, at least I would.

[TheCat]

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

ADO is pretty clearly going to be the 1st guard off the bench.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. Shoot, ADO starting wouldn’t even surprise me.

Which induces terror. I clearly have ptsd from ADO and TT 1) being signed to Arizona and 2) starting. I am as big a Tommy Lloyd guy as you will find and I wouldn’t trade him for hardly anyone in the country.

But, ADO and TT scare/scared the shit out of me.

Maybe I simply am a fraidycat.

Lets not assume a 10-man rotation - we're way short of that at the moment...

Thought experiment - if you HAD to play ADO 10 minutes per game (New Trump EO!!), where would you use him to maximize benefit and reduce costs??

Maybe the first 5 minutes of each half is optimal (and of course, maybe not!). What would you try/do

In competitive games (meaning not blowouts) against teams he can’t defend I wouldn’t play him at all. Zero minutes. Which is why I never would have put him in an Arizona uniform. Especially going in to the Big 12.

If, like for Lloyd last season, I had to play him 10 minutes a game so my squad wouldn’t implode by the end of the season I would try to sneak him on the court against my opposition’s bench players and 1) play a zone and 2) try to slow the game down so there are fewer possessions when he is on the court.

And I sure as heck wouldn’t have him on this 2025-2026 Arizona team*.

Let’s flip the experiment: how would you do it/play him?



* baring a considerable improvement in his strength, athleticism, quickness, speed etc. … which as I understand things hardly ever, if ever, happens for a player going from college season 3 to season 4.

I just want to point out a few things:

Ado is/was a subpar defender and so was Carter Bryant. I think they both made slight improvements during the season and I would say against Duke was Carter's low point. Carter is a better rebounder and shot blocker so I like his potential to improve with experience.

The two guys you state should never be in an Arizona uniform both score more points per game than Carter, ADO is less minutes, ADO also had more assist per game, ADO had a higher 3 pt %, overall fg % was basically identical and ft% was not even in the same ballpark with ADO at 90%.

The ceiling for both players is completely different but to state ADO didn't belong is ignoring the role he played and the numbers he put up, regardless of those that consider him as an example of a failure in roster construction. At the same time we need to recognize both Carter's and ADO's limitation on defense.

My hope is that ADOs defense improves and is serviceable, that Carter maximizes his potential and is talked about as a potential all american and that Krivas regains his health and shows everyone why the coaching staff was so high on him. I hope the freshman find many ways to contribute early as none of them look like freshman physically. That the team jells and truly enjoy playing together.

I look forward to the new season and hope that the team realizes it's potential whatever that is. I trust our coaching staff to help that happen. Bear Down!!!!!!!!!!!

[TucsonClip]

Holding schools in limbo really blows. Had to be a better way to coordinate the timelines of college bball and the NBA draft

It's my understanding that the "transfer window" is not a deadline for athletes to actually commit to a new school. They can still transfer and commit to other schools at any time after entering the portal, as long as they meet the necessary admissions and academic requirements.

If that's correct, then waiting for NBA decision does NOT hold a school in "limbo".

AND, BTW, I still think CTL needs a couple of transfers in any case. That's especially true if ADO's usage will/would be significantly different next season. (I see no need for that myself).

I'm hoping for a 9-10 man rotation.

True

You can leave the portal anytime. You must enter the portal by certain deadlines

Jimmy Buckets is willing to leave State University for Arizona but only for Arizona and isn’t putting his name in the portal until he knows he has Bryant’s spot.

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

I've been fighting that fight vigorously since the off-season started. It's laughable, IMO.

A really brief summary is... Whatever # ADO is in the rotation, cross that number off, and we are left with the number before him in our rotation, in games that matter. Breaking news, that's a lot of games.

That's just not good enough. Sorry. If he's the 10th man. Perfect, as long as the 10th man is t starting and barely seeing the floor. If he's the 8th man. Welcome back to a 7 man rotation again, being 1 asterisk away from our 6 man rotation. Not good.

[TheCat]

ADO can be a useful player. As instant offense off the bench against the other team's 2's. I'd also sub ADO in for offense in late game situations. He is a very good shooter, and the best FT shooter on the team. But starting ADO? Not ideal.

Uh no.....he is not the best free throw shooter on the team that would be the other guy that just transferred in from Harvard that can't play and no one has seen. He is also a plus 40% shooter from 3. But don't worry he will be at best 13-14 in the rotation.

I think with 3 freshman playing a large role on this team we better buckle up especially early. Some have prioritized getting freshman as vital and while I agree they are important I would trade one for an experienced proven junior in a heartbeat. It is great to tout the recruiting class but that means less and less each year. I mentioned two guys early on that I really wanted but they were snatched up by other programs fairly quickly. Both were plus 40% 3 pt shooters and proven in major conferences.

[Winger]

Holding schools in limbo really blows. Had to be a better way to coordinate the timelines of college bball and the NBA draft

It's my understanding that the "transfer window" is not a deadline for athletes to actually commit to a new school. They can still transfer and commit to other schools at any time after entering the portal, as long as they meet the necessary admissions and academic requirements.

If that's correct, then waiting for NBA decision does NOT hold a school in "limbo".

AND, BTW, I still think CTL needs a couple of transfers in any case. That's especially true if ADO's usage will/would be significantly different next season. (I see no need for that myself).

I'm hoping for a 9-10 man rotation.

True

You can leave the portal anytime. You must enter the portal by certain deadlines

Jimmy Buckets is willing to leave State University for Arizona but only for Arizona and isn’t putting his name in the portal until he knows he has Bryant’s spot.

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

I've been fighting that fight vigorously since the off-season started. It's laughable, IMO.

A really brief summary is... Whatever # ADO is in the rotation, cross that number off, and we are left with the number before him in our rotation, in games that matter. Breaking news, that's a lot of games.

That's just not good enough. Sorry. If he's the 10th man. Perfect, as long as the 10th man is t starting and barely seeing the floor. If he's the 8th man. Welcome back to a 7 man rotation again, being 1 asterisk away from our 6 man rotation. Not good.

To use your rotation number ADO theory, here is my problem:

You can’t cross ADO off. Because he is in fact playing minutes. Mostly against the opposition’s starters. And anything he does to adversely affect the relative point total (both points scored/conceded AND what Arizona could have done with someone else on the floor) when he is in the game counts.

Counts every bit the same as the relative point total when he is on the bench. If he is a net positive Arizona is more likely to win and vice versa.

If Arizona scratched ADO in these games (0 minutes) it’d be cool. But Arizona doesn’t (or didn’t) scratch him. It freaking started him. Which, worse, guaranteed him 6-8 minutes every game.

All of this is why I am expecting ADO to play at least as much next season, if not more. Especially if Carter declares and we can’t find another 3 who can shoot and play defense. You want me to buy in to ADO being the 10th guy in the rotation? (Rhetorical question) Well, that’s an uphill road … but its likely to be predicated on Bryant returning and even then I have my doubts.

Shit, sorry Al I did it again!

[Winger]

ADO can be a useful player. As instant offense off the bench against the other team's 2's. I'd also sub ADO in for offense in late game situations. He is a very good shooter, and the best FT shooter on the team. But starting ADO? Not ideal.

Uh no.....he is not the best free throw shooter on the team that would be the other guy that just transferred in from Harvard that can't play and no one has seen. He is also a plus 40% shooter from 3. But don't worry he will be at best 13-14 in the rotation.

I think with 3 freshman playing a large role on this team we better buckle up especially early. Some have prioritized getting freshman as vital and while I agree they are important I would trade one for an experienced proven junior in a heartbeat. It is great to tout the recruiting class but that means less and less each year. I mentioned two guys early on that I really wanted but they were snatched up by other programs fairly quickly. Both were plus 40% 3 pt shooters and proven in major conferences.

What good is it to be the best free throw shooter on your team if you never get to the line?

(In case you dont know this neither ADO nor Nelson get to the line and Nelson played opponents of far lesser caliber the past 3 seasons than he will face at Arizona).

What good is it to be a great 3FG shooter if you hardly ever shoot the ball?

(In case you don’t know this, Nelson is a mid-low volume shooter. For a recent reference: he shoots the ball about as often as Veesaar did this past season).

And, its tough to maintain FG% when you make a move from a midmajor to a major. Especially in a conference known in part for its physical and good defenses.

But shooting isnt the problem. Defense is a big part of it (see: ADO). And a second part is as a PG he turns the ball over a lot and has a rep for being a bit loose and careless with the ball (decision making issues). Maybe that can be improved in Lloyd’s offense but he isn’t going to be playing against American and Holy Cross and Dartmouth at Arizona.

Can Nelson give you 10-15 quality minutes as a backup PG for a top 10 or better (my threshold) Arizona team in the Big 12?

I.e. be a legit rotation player on a legit contender. TBD but I would say “no”. Which is why I post that he (and ADO and Martinez) can’t play at this level.

[SunnyAZ]

And, its tough to maintain FG% when you make a move from a midmajor to a major. Especially in a conference known in part for its physical and good defenses.

Townsend and ADO were both more efficient scorers their 1 year at UA than they were their previous seasons. Same with Cedric Henderson. I think that's all the mid major transfers under Tommy.

[TucsonClip]

It's my understanding that the "transfer window" is not a deadline for athletes to actually commit to a new school. They can still transfer and commit to other schools at any time after entering the portal, as long as they meet the necessary admissions and academic requirements.

If that's correct, then waiting for NBA decision does NOT hold a school in "limbo".

AND, BTW, I still think CTL needs a couple of transfers in any case. That's especially true if ADO's usage will/would be significantly different next season. (I see no need for that myself).

I'm hoping for a 9-10 man rotation.

True

You can leave the portal anytime. You must enter the portal by certain deadlines

Jimmy Buckets is willing to leave State University for Arizona but only for Arizona and isn’t putting his name in the portal until he knows he has Bryant’s spot.

And I agree with you on ADO. For the everything in the offseason is rosy regime the messaging is going to be “he is fine as the 10th guy why are you worried about the 10th guy” but after last season I am terrified that Lloyd will continue to start him.

I've been fighting that fight vigorously since the off-season started. It's laughable, IMO.

A really brief summary is... Whatever # ADO is in the rotation, cross that number off, and we are left with the number before him in our rotation, in games that matter. Breaking news, that's a lot of games.

That's just not good enough. Sorry. If he's the 10th man. Perfect, as long as the 10th man is t starting and barely seeing the floor. If he's the 8th man. Welcome back to a 7 man rotation again, being 1 asterisk away from our 6 man rotation. Not good.

To use your rotation number ADO theory, here is my problem:

You can’t cross ADO off. Because he is in fact playing minutes. Mostly against the opposition’s starters. And anything he does to adversely affect the relative point total (both points scored/conceded AND what Arizona could have done with someone else on the floor) when he is in the game counts.

Counts every bit the same as the relative point total when he is on the bench. If he is a net positive Arizona is more likely to win and vice versa.

If Arizona scratched ADO in these games (0 minutes) it’d be cool. But Arizona doesn’t (or didn’t) scratch him. It freaking started him. Which, worse, guaranteed him 6-8 minutes every game.

All of this is why I am expecting ADO to play at least as much next season, if not more. Especially if Carter declares and we can’t find another 3 who can shoot and play defense. You want me to buy in to ADO being the 10th guy in the rotation? (Rhetorical question) Well, that’s an uphill road … but its likely to be predicated on Bryant returning and even then I have my doubts.

Shit, sorry Al I did it again!

Yeah, totally agree with everything here. I was trying to rile people up by eliminating ADO from the rotation against any quality competition. Lloyd effectively did this, outside what you mention, the important 5 mins to start each half.

He's just not good enough to be a cog in the rotation, and laughable that he could/may/will/did start.

I was being mocked for wanting a legitimate 3rd guard when we still had Carter. Imagine if Carter is gone and we can't replicate his impact (which also includes being the primary backup 4 lol)?

[TheCat]

ADO can be a useful player. As instant offense off the bench against the other team's 2's. I'd also sub ADO in for offense in late game situations. He is a very good shooter, and the best FT shooter on the team. But starting ADO? Not ideal.

Uh no.....he is not the best free throw shooter on the team that would be the other guy that just transferred in from Harvard that can't play and no one has seen. He is also a plus 40% shooter from 3. But don't worry he will be at best 13-14 in the rotation.

I think with 3 freshman playing a large role on this team we better buckle up especially early. Some have prioritized getting freshman as vital and while I agree they are important I would trade one for an experienced proven junior in a heartbeat. It is great to tout the recruiting class but that means less and less each year. I mentioned two guys early on that I really wanted but they were snatched up by other programs fairly quickly. Both were plus 40% 3 pt shooters and proven in major conferences.

What good is it to be the best free throw shooter on your team if you never get to the line?

(In case you dont know this neither ADO nor Nelson get to the line and Nelson played opponents of far lesser caliber the past 3 seasons than he will face at Arizona).

What good is it to be a great 3FG shooter if you hardly ever shoot the ball?

(In case you don’t know this, Nelson is a mid-low volume shooter. For a recent reference: he shoots the ball about as often as Veesaar did this past season).

And, its tough to maintain FG% when you make a move from a midmajor to a major. Especially in a conference known in part for its physical and good defenses.

But shooting isnt the problem. Defense is a big part of it (see: ADO). And a second part is as a PG he turns the ball over a lot and has a rep for being a bit loose and careless with the ball (decision making issues). Maybe that can be improved in Lloyd’s offense but he isn’t going to be playing against American and Holy Cross and Dartmouth at Arizona.

Can Nelson give you 10-15 quality minutes as a backup PG for a top 10 or better (my threshold) Arizona team in the Big 12?

I.e. be a legit rotation player on a legit contender. TBD but I would say “no”. Which is why I post that he (and ADO and Martinez) can’t play at this level.

You have beat this horse to death. You don't like either player even the one you have never seen. Enough said. It doesn't matter their contribution, which in your mind is nothing (let me correct that a negative) even though ADO scored,assisted and shot better from 3 than Carter in less minutes. To me there is some value there. You have said for 10 pages you think ADO is shit and believe me we get it. That is your opinion and I value it as such. Please tell us again why you think they are shit. We haven't heard it enough. Oh and ADO did it against their starters which is another of your constantly repeated points. It is getting real boring.

It doesn't matter what they achieve if it doesn't end in a top ten , tourney title and elite eight. I get it. Makes sense for a quasi blue blood program. I appreciate the struggle and the way that last year's team stuck together, did not flinch, supported each other and you don't. I also appreciate that our OCC is not against directional schools and playing teams like Duke, UCONN and Wiskey win or lose will help.

[pc in NM]

IMNSHO, third place in the Big-12, ans Sweet 16 constitute a good basketball season. Ask any random basketball fan, and they'd agree!

Fortunately, or unfortunately, Arizona fans are used to seasons at this level, AND have expectations for better seasons and accomplishments. There's nothing wrong with that - it's normal and expected. So, of course many are disappointed when the season ends like that.

However, when such fans believe that a) performances like 24/25 are "unacceptable", and/or are angry at players or coaches for "letting them down", that is another story entirely. Then we're dealing with unjustifiable fan entitlement -"over-entitlement" might be more appropriate. Why? Because it's unearned - the fan has invested nothing into the equation more than a fan of any other team, and is therefore not owed anything in "return"!

I know this, because there were times and teams I cheered in my youthful and immate days where I committed this same mistake. Sports fan emotions and passion can be intense, and easily get the better of any of us - and have probably buried each of one time or another.

But, as with all life's challenges (even the trivial one's like sports entertainment), maturation involves having some humility and perspective...

To that point, ADO is an Arizona student-athlete; by all appearances and available information, he's a high character guy, a good teammate, and hustles every time he's on the floor. He also was a key member of an 8-man rotation for the third place team in the big-12, that made it to the Sweet 16. Therefore, he CAN indisputably play at the D1 level- that is not a debatable point.

How can he contribute in the future, or how can he best be deployed are valid discussion points.

[dmjcat]

IMNSHO, third place in the Big-12, ans Sweet 16 constitute a good basketball season. Ask any random basketball fan, and they'd agree!

Fortunately, or unfortunately, Arizona fans are used to seasons at this level, AND have expectations for better seasons and accomplishments. There's nothing wrong with that - it's normal and expected. So, of course many are disappointed when the season ends like that.

However, when such fans believe that a) performances like 24/25 are "unacceptable", and/or are angry at players or coaches for "letting them down", that is another story entirely. Then we're dealing with unjustifiable fan entitlement -"over-entitlement" might be more appropriate. Why? Because it's unearned - the fan has invested nothing into the equation more than a fan of any other team, and is therefore not owed anything in "return"!

I know this, because there were times and teams I cheered in my youthful and immate days where I committed this same mistake. Sports fan emotions and passion can be intense, and easily get the better of any of us - and have probably buried each of one time or another.

But, as with all life's challenges (even the trivial one's like sports entertainment), maturation involves having some humility and perspective...

To that point, ADO is an Arizona student-athlete; by all appearances and available information, he's a high character guy, a good teammate, and hustles every time he's on the floor. He also was a key member of an 8-man rotation for the third place team in the big-12, that made it to the Sweet 16. Therefore, he CAN indisputably play at the D1 level- that is not a debatable point.

How can he contribute in the future, or how can he best be deployed are valid discussion points.

I'd +rep this post if I could.

I would add to your comment about "unjustifiable fan entitlement". In the age of NIL I would also refer to it
as Unrealistic Fan Expectations........or maybe just fanboy stupidity.

Given that the UA ranks somewhere around #6 in the Big12 in terms of NIL (and outside the Top 20 nationally), it is completely unrealistic to believe that we should be challenging for the Big12 Title every year. If CTL gets the UA anywhere inside the Top 5 in the Big12 (or in the Top 20 nationally) he is exceeding expectations. To expect ANY UA BBall coach to consistently outperform BYU (for example) going forward is truly idiotic. When a school like BYU has the financial ability to buy the best players every year one can't expect the UA coach to consistently beat them.

This is no longer an amateur sport. Its not about CTL selling himself or the school.......its about having the $$$$$ to outbid everyone else and this factor has to be taken into account for fan expectations. I think we still have a number of fans, and posters, who have not calibrated themselves to this new reality of professional college sports. Its no longer 2015 people

[Chicat]

You have beat this horse to death.

The only way to get those of us who think that ADO is not a BigXII caliber player to shut up about him is for him to prove that he is actually a BigXII caliber player.

Telling Winger to shut up and go away, and he does, doesn’t make ADO better. It just makes this board worse.