espn top 50 coaches

[cats101]

Kevin Ollie #10

[97cats]

so Gregg Marshall is ahead of Ollie too?

bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[Beachcat97]

so Gregg Marshall is ahead of Ollie too?

bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Remind me again: what has Marshall done? He's gotten to one FF while dominating the freaking Missouri Valley Conference. If that puts him ahead of guys like Miller, Boeheim, and freaking Roy Williams, I guess I just don't know as much about college hoops as Eamonn Brennan.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm surprised by the reaction here to Marshall. He's had success at Winthrop too. Having success with multiple programs is a big deal. Ollie is still playing with Calhoun's players, and Marshall has elevated two programs.

Also, I love Sean Miller, but are we the fan base to be pooh pooing final four appearances? Especially when he follows it by going undefeated and getting a 1 seed?

[97cats]

how did Sean Miller fair at Xavier?

and grabbing your first loss in the second round after pushing undefeated isnt a badge of honor.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Having posted biblical quotes with "Sean Miller" substituted for "God" on a number of occasions, I didn't expect to have my love of Miller challenged, but I'll say it: Sean Miller is the best coach Arizona could land, and there are no circumstances where he should be alive and not coaching the Cats until he retires.

My point on multiple teams was on Ollie. Ollie hasn't succeeded with his recruits yet, but people are surprised he doesn't beat out Marshall.

Even Miller, you can make a case for Marshall. I will never buy that case, but you can make it.

[Beachcat97]

So who's left? Marshall, K, Izzo, Calipari, Self, Donovan, Pitino?? Have they ranked Ryan yet?

[cats101]

So who's left? Marshall, K, Izzo, Calipari, Self, Donovan, Pitino?? Have they ranked Ryan yet?

All of those + John Beilein if I had to guess.

[midnightx]

so Gregg Marshall is ahead of Ollie too?

bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Remind me again: what has Marshall done? He's gotten to one FF while dominating the freaking Missouri Valley Conference. If that puts him ahead of guys like Miller, Boeheim, and freaking Roy Williams, I guess I just don't know as much about college hoops as Eamonn Brennan.

Bingo. This list has had some head-scratching moments, but also some absurd ones as well. There is way too much love for these mid-major coaches. Few and Stevens ushered in this crazy era of ranking the mid-major coaches alongside the best coaches from power conferences. Stevens got his teams ready for the tournament and had some luck, but there is no indication that he was ever going to pull major recruits away from the premier programs and have to compete at a high level all throughout a season in his weak conference. It is great that Marshall can dominate a terrible league and win some post-season games -- I'd love to see him do in the ACC, and love to see the kinds of players he could bring in on a yearly basis to compete with college basketball's best and deepest. Yes, Miller came from that environment as well; competing in a generally weak conference with a couple of deep runs in the tournament -- but he also showed that he could rebuild an elite program, recruit with the best, develop talent, and compete in a major conference. Sorry Eamonn, but if you think Marshall and Smart should be ranked ahead of Roy Williams, you need to look for another career.

And with regard to Ollie, the guy won a title. Credit needs to be given where credit is due. But, he also hasn't made his own mark at UConn yet in any other way. Is he going to be able to maintain its recruiting level? Is he going to be able to maintain its consistency at playing at a national, high level? Those are unanswered questions strangely enough. Way too soon to put this guy in the top-ten; especially over Williams or Boeheim.

[Spaceman Spiff]

They're basing the rankings on a coach's value right now. It's not about career accomplishments. I'm more interested in where they place K than Miller. There aren't 5 better coaches in the country right now than CSM. If someone misses that, I don't give a damn. We dealt with an unappreciated coach for 25+ years. CSM will win at least 1 title in the next 5 years.

The part about value right now bears repeating. I don't really get people pumping up Roy when he could pick up sanctions soon, and is close to retirement. Boeheim is at the end of the run too.

I can agree to disagree on Marshall's past, but is it really that odd Roy and Jimmy don't rank higher (minus the Aarp discount).

[97cats]

and ahead of John Beilein too

bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spaceman Spiff]

and ahead of John Beilein too

bwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

WHAT A JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think you discount age too much, but I think we have to agree to disagree. A decades difference in age VA their resumes, I would count heavily.

[97cats]

Gregg Marshall coaches at a Mid-Major -- his first game played against an opponent of significance in three months resulted in loss.

assuming he would have the same results (or better) in the BIG10 or Pac12 is ridiculous.

plus, hes most arrogant prick in the business -- a poor man's Bob Knight wanna be.

Gregg Marshall is not a better coach than Shaka Smart, Sean Miller, Kevin Ollie, or John Beilein and maybe even Tony Bennett.

that list is a joke

[Olsondogg]

hes most arrogant prick in the business --

Frank Martin & Bruce Pearl disagree

[Spaceman Spiff]

hes most arrogant prick in the business --

Frank Martin & Bruce Pearl disagree

Being the most arrogant coach is a really high bar. A lot of big time coaches make Kanye West look like Gandhi.

[97cats]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/ncaab/eye-on- ... -your-team

15. Gregg Marshall


Team: Wichita State
Drafted by: Gary Parrish

Why him? Bennett was on my short-list of options here before Borzello selected him, and my love of Ryan is well-documented. But I just can't pass on Marshall because he has replaced Stevens (and pulled neck-and-neck with Smart) on the list of the nation's most heavily pursued coaches. Why has he done that? Because he's terrific -- a true "coach" who has literally achieved an unprecedented amount of success at the only two places he's ever worked as a head coach. He could be at countless big-conference programs right now if he wanted, and he could be making in excess of $2.5 million at multiple schools. But Marshall has decided to stay at Wichita State for now because he's built a Missouri Valley Conference monster in seven years, and it's reasonable to suggest he could make his second Final Four in three years next season, at which point all of the so-called power-conference schools with openings will come calling all over again. -- Parrish

Hoiberg, Miller, Beilein, Smart, Bennett, Matta ALL much better than Marshall

[Merkin]

Yep.


4. Sean Miller

Team: Arizona
Drafted by: Jon Rothstein
Why him? He has yet to take a school to the Final Four, but it's only a matter of time before Miller is coaching on the sport's most hallowed stage. Since arriving in Tucson in 2009, Miller has recruited better than anyone else in college basketball not named John Calipari. What's the most impressive thing about Miller's recent surge in the desert? He doesn't have West Coast roots. A Pittsburgh native, Miller cut his collegiate coaching teeth at Xavier where he led the Musketeers to an Elite Eight appearance in 2008. There's always a passage of sorts in sports and in five-to 10 years when Calipari, Pitino, Self and Tom Izzo move on, Miller will be the one to lead college basketball. His presence in this sport is similar to Jim Harbaugh's in the NFL. -- Rothstein

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm starting to think 97 doesn't like Marshall much.

Any list that doesn't have Miller #1 could use some work. There isn't a better combo of age and ability with the possible exception of Donovan, and ranking Donovan is hard.

[97cats]

i think its widely known around here how HUGE of a Sean Miller supporter i am, but i cant say i would put him on this list ahead of Billy Donovan.

in fact, Donovan is the only coach in America i would consider taking in trade with Sean Miller, and even then i dont know if i could pull the trigger -- ten yrs ago Pitino would be my choice in a landslide but it aint ten yrs ago anymore.

as for Self, Calipari, and Krzyzewski -- i wouldnt swap any for Coach Miller

[Chicat]

Yep.


4. Sean Miller

Team: Arizona
Drafted by: Jon Rothstein
Why him? He has yet to take a school to the Final Four, but it's only a matter of time before Miller is coaching on the sport's most hallowed stage. Since arriving in Tucson in 2009, Miller has recruited better than anyone else in college basketball not named John Calipari. What's the most impressive thing about Miller's recent surge in the desert? He doesn't have West Coast roots. A Pittsburgh native, Miller cut his collegiate coaching teeth at Xavier where he led the Musketeers to an Elite Eight appearance in 2008. There's always a passage of sorts in sports and in five-to 10 years when Calipari, Pitino, Self and Tom Izzo move on, Miller will be the one to lead college basketball. His presence in this sport is similar to Jim Harbaugh's in the NFL. -- Rothstein

Wow, that is some seriously high praise.

[Spaceman Spiff]

i think its widely known around here how HUGE of a Sean Miller supporter i am, but i cant say i would put him on this list ahead of Billy Donovan.

in fact, Donovan is the only coach in America i would consider taking in trade with Sean Miller, and even then i dont know if i could pull the trigger -- ten yrs ago Pitino would be my choice in a landslide but it aint ten yrs ago anymore.

as for Self, Calipari, and Krzyzewski -- i wouldnt swap any for Coach Miller

I just don't know how much to credit him for the 2 titles. I think you can argue he has under achieved to a certain degree if you ignore the 2 titles. Of course, you can't ignore them. I just don't know how much of that was Donovan and how much was a core of players that fit perfectly.

And I have a huge man crush on Miller.

[Olsondogg]

i think its widely known around here how HUGE of a Sean Miller supporter i am, but i cant say i would put him on this list ahead of Billy Donovan.

in fact, Donovan is the only coach in America i would consider taking in trade with Sean Miller, and even then i dont know if i could pull the trigger -- ten yrs ago Pitino would be my choice in a landslide but it aint ten yrs ago anymore.

as for Self, Calipari, and Krzyzewski -- i wouldnt swap any for Coach Miller

I just don't know how much to credit him for the 2 titles. I think you can argue he has under achieved to a certain degree if you ignore the 2 titles. Of course, you can't ignore them. I just don't know how much of that was Donovan and how much was a core of players that fit perfectly.

And I have a huge man crush on Miller.

I argued that exact point on the Donovan thread in the old site. Several times he's come up empty when seemingly having a chance to win it all...

[Spaceman Spiff]

i think its widely known around here how HUGE of a Sean Miller supporter i am, but i cant say i would put him on this list ahead of Billy Donovan.

in fact, Donovan is the only coach in America i would consider taking in trade with Sean Miller, and even then i dont know if i could pull the trigger -- ten yrs ago Pitino would be my choice in a landslide but it aint ten yrs ago anymore.

as for Self, Calipari, and Krzyzewski -- i wouldnt swap any for Coach Miller

I just don't know how much to credit him for the 2 titles. I think you can argue he has under achieved to a certain degree if you ignore the 2 titles. Of course, you can't ignore them. I just don't know how much of that was Donovan and how much was a core of players that fit perfectly.

And I have a huge man crush on Miller.

I argued that exact point on the Donovan thread in the old site. Several times he's come up empty when seemingly having a chance to win it all...

It just makes it harder to judge. I give him more credit for the Noah team's first run, but the second time around, I think that team could have coached itself.

I'd have Donovan and Miller as a top 2 in power rankings, but if I was thinking of putting Donovan 1, I'd like to see a NC without that core. Last year should have been that year.

[97cats]

Donovan is 49yrs old and is:

451–169 (.727) overall
35-12 in the NCAA Tournamernt
5-2 in the Final Four
2-1 in the NCAA Final
19-0 as coach of USA Basketball

its really not an argument who is the best coach based on pedigree/performance/history/age/timing if you could pick anyone to be the head of the snake for the next 20yrs.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Donovan is 49yrs old and is:

451–169 (.727) overall
35-12 in the NCAA Tournamernt
5-2 in the Final Four
2-1 in the NCAA Final
19-0 as coach of USA Basketball

its really not an argument who is the best coach based on pedigree/performance/history/age/timing if you could pick anyone to be the head of the snake for the next 20yrs.

Subtract Donovan's 2 tourney runs and he's 23-12 in the tourney with .727 regular season.

Miller is 14-7 in the tourney and .724 in the regular season. That .724 includes the resurrection here.

I say that not to crap on Donovan, but just to point out that those 2 years are huge to how you see his resume.

[97cats]

of course they are -- you cant subtract yrs!!!!

come on, Space!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

youre better than that.......

[Olsondogg]

Donovan is 49yrs old and is:

451–169 (.727) overall
35-12 in the NCAA Tournamernt
5-2 in the Final Four
2-1 in the NCAA Final
19-0 as coach of USA Basketball

its really not an argument who is the best coach based on pedigree/performance/history/age/timing if you could pick anyone to be the head of the snake for the next 20yrs.

For 10 years, in fact an entire decade if you add it up, Donovan either didn't make the NCAA's or exited before the first weekend was over. Yeah, so in the last 4 years he's make the Elite 8 every year, and the Final 4 one time. The three years prior, he had one first round exit and 2 years of no dancing at all. His great team that decided to stay in school got him two rings. That's awesome for him. Look what happened after that team left.

How is he 5-2 in the final 4? He's made the Final 4 four times, and won three of them...I see that as 3-1. Am I misguided?

[97cats]

1999-2000 NCAA Runner-Up (1-1)
2005-2006 NCAA Champion (2-0)
2006-2007 NCAA Champion (2-0)
2013-2014 NCAA Final Four (0-1)

Record in the Final Four (5-2)

*** and i know you're trying to be cute with the 3-1/2-1 -- either way you slice it its impressive

PS -- did i mention hes only 49?

[Beachcat97]

I love Miller, but Donovan >>>> Miller

It's not close. This could change over time, but for now, there's no serious discussion worth having.

[Olsondogg]

Not arguing him against miller. But ol' Eddie Munster has not done anything in the tourney several years. He's 49, but also has a decade of garbage ends to his seasons. First round exit, second round exit, first round exit, repeat...repeat...

[97cats]

in fairness to Odogg and the conversation, below is Donovan's entire regular and post season body of work.

i dont consider a second round loss in the NCAA's a failure, and generally dont think of a first round exit as such either, however, i understand the argument so will concede the point -- especially for a guy like Donovan -- that making the NCAA Tournament and losing in the first round is under-performing.

that makes in eighteen yrs (excluding his first season, and what probably should his second as well) where five season were disappointments.

during that period Donovan is 35-12 in the NCAA Tournament with three National Title game appearances and a .721 winning percentage.

at the age of 49 with a 19-0 USA Basketball mark including two gold medals its scary to think the best is yet to come.

Florida Gators (1996–present)

1996–97 Florida 13–17 no post-season
1997–98 Florida 14–15 NIT First Round
1998–99 Florida 22–9 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1999–00 Florida 29–8 NCAA Runner-up
2000–01 Florida 24–7 NCAA Second Round
2001–02 Florida 22–9 NCAA First Round
2002–03 Florida 25–8 NCAA Second Round
2003–04 Florida 20–11 NCAA First Round
2004–05 Florida 24–8 NCAA Second Round
2005–06 Florida 33–6 NCAA Champions
2006–07 Florida 35–5 NCAA Champions
2007–08 Florida 24–12 NIT Semifinals
2008–09 Florida 25–11 NIT Quarterfinals
2009–10 Florida 21–13 NCAA First Round
2010–11 Florida 29–8 NCAA Elite Eight
2011–12 Florida 26–11 NCAA Elite Eight
2012–13 Florida 29–8 NCAA Elite Eight
2013–14 Florida 36–3 NCAA Final Four

[Olsondogg]

in fairness to Odogg and the conversation, below is Donovan's entire regular and post season body of work.

i dont consider a second round loss in the NCAA's a failure, and generally dont think of a first round exit as such either, however, i understand the argument so will concede the point -- especially for a guy like Donovan -- that making the NCAA Tournament and losing in the first round is under-performing.

that makes in eighteen yrs (excluding his first season, and what probably should his second as well) where five season were disappointments.

during that period Donovan is 35-12 in the NCAA Tournament with three National Title game appearances and a .721 winning percentage.

at the age of 49 with a 19-0 USA Basketball mark including two gold medals its scary to think the best is yet to come.

Florida Gators (1996–present)

1996–97 Florida 13–17 no post-season
1997–98 Florida 14–15 NIT First Round
1998–99 Florida 22–9 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1999–00 Florida 29–8 NCAA Runner-up
2000–01 Florida 24–7 NCAA Second Round
2001–02 Florida 22–9 NCAA First Round
2002–03 Florida 25–8 NCAA Second Round
2003–04 Florida 20–11 NCAA First Round
2004–05 Florida 24–8 NCAA Second Round
2005–06 Florida 33–6 NCAA Champions
2006–07 Florida 35–5 NCAA Champions
2007–08 Florida 24–12 NIT Semifinals
2008–09 Florida 25–11 NIT Quarterfinals
2009–10 Florida 21–13 NCAA First Round
2010–11 Florida 29–8 NCAA Elite Eight
2011–12 Florida 26–11 NCAA Elite Eight
2012–13 Florida 29–8 NCAA Elite Eight
2013–14 Florida 36–3 NCAA Final Four

If Miller had similar results at UA, he'd garner complaint after complaint. 10 years of not advancing into or past the first weekend of the NCAA's. So basically more often than not he's been less than successful in the tourney. I think we can agree that anything less than a Sweet 16 is not considered a success, well at any high level program with a high level coach. I'd bet Lance Armstrongs remaining nut that the coaches would agree with me on that...

Oh, and on that point I will always believe it is easier to coach basketball in a football town than in a basketball one...

[Spaceman Spiff]

of course they are -- you cant subtract yrs!!!!

come on, Space!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

youre better than that.......

No I'm not. There's no way I'm better than that.

My point was more about how identical Miller and Donovan are without considering those two years. I think it's fair to question whether that was Donovan's success until he repeats it.

At the very least there's a good deal of luck in back to back championships. If Miller had been lucky and Ashley stayed healthy, we'd be talking about 2014-15 as out own chance for a repeat. It can be that close, and if he had Donovan's luck, Miller would have a ring too.

[97cats]

pooh, I luv ya!!!!!

subtract the best two yrs of any coach and the numbers change significantly -- would be an interesting exercise sometime at the very least; good idea.

to, Odogg -

if Sean Miller wins two Nationa titles and gets to four Final Fours in the next thirteen yrs I will be happy -- maybe you won't but I will.

[Olsondogg]

pooh, I luv ya!!!!!

subtract the best two yrs of any coach and the numbers change significantly -- would be an interesting exercise sometime at the very least; good idea.

to, Odogg -

if Sean Miller wins two Nationa titles and gets to four Final Fours in the next thirteen yrs I will be happy -- maybe you won't but I will.

Ha...nowhere did I say I would be unhappy with similar accomplishments. I just don't do the slow-jerk on Donovan's chode...

He's got a couple of Nat'l titles. That's good for him like I said. I just don't think he's the greatest coach out there, and one that I would trade Miller for. I am quite confident that we will see a similar trajectory, without the pitfalls that Mr. Munster has had in football town.

We don't see eye to eye on this dude, and that's ok. I would never ever want him as UA's coach. But to each their own.

[97cats]

in 18yrs that is what Donovan has done (which you called failure) Coach Miller is in his fifth yr and is behind schedule on the same trajectory.

i apologize that im pointing out facts but thats what it is, Coach Miller would have to go to 3 National Tile games (winning two) and four Final Fours in the next 13 yrs to match what Donovan has done at Florida over the same span (18 yrs) which you called "garbage" at Florida.

facts are facts and those results/numbers are ones i'd gladly live with for Miller at Arizona, if in fact he could match what Donovan has done in Gainesville.

to each his own

[Olsondogg]

in 18yrs that is what Donovan has done (which you called failure) Coach Miller is in his fifth yr and is behind schedule on the same trajectory.

i apologize that im pointing out facts but thats what it is, Coach Miller would have to go to 3 National Tile games (winning two) and four Final Fours in the next 13 yrs to match what Donovan has done at Florida over the same span (18 yrs) which you called "garbage" at Florida.

facts are facts and those results/numbers are ones i'd gladly live with for Miller at Arizona, if in fact he could match what Donovan has done in Gainesville.

to each his own

If you are gonna state facts, try starting with what I actually said. Show me where i said "failure" or "garbage".

10 years Donovan has either not made the dance, or not made it out of the first weekend. Again, I am confident with what I see being built in Tucson those things can be reached by Miller in the next 13, starting in October...

*Edit--I see I said "garbage ends" to seasons...which is what the NIT is called, or a first/second round exit. Nowhere was failure mentioned, except by you.

[97cats]

Not arguing him against miller. But ol' Eddie Munster has not done anything in the tourney several years. He's 49, but also has a decade of garbage ends to his seasons. First round exit, second round exit, first round exit, repeat...repeat...

[Olsondogg]

Not arguing him against miller. But ol' Eddie Munster has not done anything in the tourney several years. He's 49, but also has a decade of garbage ends to his seasons. First round exit, second round exit, first round exit, repeat...repeat...

I edited for "garbage ends" that was a FAILURE on my part.

1996-97
1997-98
2000-01
2001-02
2002-03
2003-04
2004-05
2007-08
2008-09
2009-10

[97cats]

If Miller had similar results at UA, he'd garner complaint after complaint. 10 years of not advancing into or past the first weekend of the NCAA's. So basically more often than not he's been less than successful in the tourney. I think we can agree that anything less than a Sweet 16 is not considered a success, well at any high level program with a high level coach. I'd bet Lance Armstrongs remaining nut that the coaches would agree with me on that...

[97cats]

i will take Donovans success for Sean Miller at Arizona every day and on Sunday -- he has quite an uphill climb to get there and match what you think is underachievement.

youre right, we disagree.

[Olsondogg]

If Miller had similar results at UA, he'd garner complaint after complaint. 10 years of not advancing into or past the first weekend of the NCAA's. So basically more often than not he's been less than successful in the tourney. I think we can agree that anything less than a Sweet 16 is not considered a success, well at any high level program with a high level coach. I'd bet Lance Armstrongs remaining nut that the coaches would agree with me on that...

Your point?

[97cats]

If Miller had similar results at UA, he'd garner complaint after complaint. 10 years of not advancing into or past the first weekend of the NCAA's. So basically more often than not he's been less than successful in the tourney. I think we can agree that anything less than a Sweet 16 is not considered a success, well at any high level program with a high level coach. I'd bet Lance Armstrongs remaining nut that the coaches would agree with me on that...

Your point?

thats is the definition of underacheivement and failure as printed his results are "not considered a success" by your standards.

are you not saying that?

if not, i concede -- if so, stand up.

[Olsondogg]

[

thats is the definition of underacheivement and failure "not considered a success".

are you not saying that?

if not, i concede -- if so, stand up.

Underachievement is not considered failure. I was a straight-A student in HS, up until my first C my senior year...that's not the same as an F, but an underachievement for me.

If you think that Donovan succeeded at Florida by exiting early or not dancing in 10 out of his 18 years in Florida, then you have your work cut out for you with the fans here in Arizona. Majority of the posters on the old board considered last year a "failure" because we didn't score an extra bucket.

Perhaps you want me to say Donovan is a failure as a coach, or something. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the dude has 2 rings, 4 final 4's and a handful of Elite 8's to go with his 10 years of underachieving.

You like him, I get it. I don't. We aren't getting anywhere here.

[97cats]

nah, i dont want you to say that, but for me (not everyone obviously) i would take two National Titles, a national runner-up, and Four Final Fours in 18 yrs from Coach Miller -- considering he is in his fifth yr and is yet to get to his first Final Four and i think hes still done a remarkable says it all.

lets check back in 13yrs

[Olsondogg]

nah, i dont want you to say that, but for me (not everyone obviously) i would take two National Titles, a national runner-up, and Four Final Fours in 18 yrs from Coach Miller -- considering he is in his fifth yr and is yet to get to his first Final Four and i think hes still done a remarkable says it all.

lets check back in 13yrs

Check back in 13 months...Miller will be one step closer...

[Spaceman Spiff]

pooh, I luv ya!!!!!

subtract the best two yrs of any coach and the numbers change significantly -- would be an interesting exercise sometime at the very least; good idea.

to, Odogg -

if Sean Miller wins two Nationa titles and gets to four Final Fours in the next thirteen yrs I will be happy -- maybe you won't but I will.

It stands out more with Donovan because it was shocking that a team that won it all and had 3 lottery picks had zero leave for the league. Quite literally, there isn't another modern example of that. That is a stroke of crazy luck that sets Donovan apart.

Reading on to your conversation with Odogg, I'll bet you a billion Internet bucks that if Ashley didn't get hurt and all our guys returned, Miller would be even with Donovan in NC'S next year. That's why I don't know if Donovan is just that good or if he just had lightning strike like that and elevate an otherwise good but not dominant career.

[thenewazcats]

I wonder how many rings Jackson would have if the NBA had a single elimination tournament?

Donovan's seeds: 6, 5, 3, 5, 2, 5, 4, 3, 1, 10, 2, 7, 3, 1. That's just three seasons his teams weren't deemed one of the nation's top 20 after 30+ games, or nearly 90% of a Sweet 16 team's games.

We all want that tournament success but using it as a barometer for overall success or ability is a flawed method.

Greg Marshall ahead of CSM is ridiculous. Making that argument depends entirely on one tournament success, like Larrañaga, and one completely misleading undefeated regular season, like Martelli. I dare anyone to look me in the eye and say they would take Greg Marshall before Sean Miller to lead their team right now, tomorrow or ten years in the future.



Donovan is a top tier coach. I wouldn't take him before CSM.

[97cats]

Full Top 50 Coaches List

No. 50: Tie -- Randy Bennett, Saint Mary's; Scott Drew, Baylor
No. 49: Richard Pitino, Minnesota
No. 48: Stew Morrill, Utah State
No. 47: Bob Hoffman, Mercer
No. 46: John Thompson III, Georgetown
No. 45: Mike Brey, Notre Dame
No. 44: Rick Barnes, Texas
No. 43: Chris Mack, Xavier
No. 42: Josh Pastner, Memphis
No. 41: Ed Cooley, Providence
No. 40: Bruce Weber, Kansas State
No. 39: Tubby Smith, Texas Tech
No. 38: Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech
No. 37: Rick Byrd, Belmont
No. 36: Steve Alford, UCLA
No. 35: Phil Martelli, Saint Joseph's
No. 34: Tad Boyle, Colorado
No. 33: Fran McCaffery, Iowa
No. 32: Tim Miles, Nebraska
No. 31: Lon Kruger, Oklahoma
No. 30: Bob Huggins, West Virginia
No. 29: Jim Crews, Saint Louis
No. 28: Jim Larranaga, Miami
No. 27: Mick Cronin, Cincinnati
No. 26: Archie Miller, Dayton
No. 25: Jamie Dixon, Pittsburgh
No. 24: Bob McKillop, Davidson
No. 23: Greg McDermott, Creighton
No. 22: Tommy Amaker, Harvard
No. 21: Larry Brown, SMU
No. 20: Thad Matta, Ohio State
No. 19: Jay Wright, Villanova
No. 18: Steve Fisher, San Diego State
No. 17: Mark Few, Gonzaga
No. 16: Roy Williams, North Carolina
No. 15: Fred Hoiberg, Iowa State
No. 14: Tony Bennett, Virginia
No. 13: Shaka Smart, VCU
No. 12: Jim Boeheim, Syracuse
No. 11: Sean Miller, Arizona
No. 10: Kevin Ollie, UConn
No. 9: John Beilein, Michigan
No. 8: Gregg Marshall, Wichita State
No. 7: Bo Ryan, Wisconsin
No. 6: Bill Self, Kansas
No. 5: Rick Pitino, Louisville

final four, in no particular order: Calipari, Krzyzewski, Donovan, Izzo

http://espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/ ... ick-pitino

[Spaceman Spiff]

You forgot Sendek in the final four. It's the only time he'll make one.

Edit: Bo Ryan at that point? OK then.