John Oliver on March Madness

[ghostwhitehorse]

[JMarkJohns]

I've talked with athletes and administrators on this a few times.

1. Convert their role in athletics into a Physical Education minor, where they can take courses in health, nutrition, physical training, etc. or Sports Management with courses in finance, administration, and coaching/analytics. Many courses here being offered in Summer. Converts the additional work of being a student athlete into course credit towards a minor that can strategically supplement a major in athletic related fields.

2. Allow athletes to benefit from own celebrity independent of college. You can place in-season regulations to administer time spent, but out of season and in offseason, they can make money all they want. During the season if some restaurant wants to sponsor them free food for their mere presence because said presence likely draws in actual patrons to see them, etc., then so what?

Now you've helped improve their time, their degree, and their station while in school. Stars may make enough off shoe deals or offseason endorsements to justify remaining for their entire degree. And you've done so without costing yourself any of your precious revenue.

It's like I said, I had scholarships, and in the summer I took my skills learned from education and made money in photography. I didn't lose my scholarship. So why should a scholarship athlete helping run a summer camp in his/her sport not able to earn off their skills?

[azgreg]

I've talked with athletes and administrators on this a few times.

1. Convert their role in athletics into a Physical Education minor, where they can take courses in health, nutrition, physical training, etc. or Sports Management with courses in finance, administration, and coaching/analytics. Many courses here being offered in Summer. Converts the additional work of being a student athlete into course credit towards a minor that can strategically supplement a major in athletic related fields.

2. Allow athletes to benefit from own celebrity independent of college. You can place in-season regulations to administer time spent, but out of season and in offseason, they can make money all they want. During the season if some restaurant wants to sponsor them free food for their mere presence because said presence likely draws in actual patrons to see them, etc., then so what?

Now you've helped improve their time, their degree, and their station while in school. Stars may make enough off shoe deals or offseason endorsements to justify remaining for their entire degree. And you've done so without costing yourself any of your precious revenue.

It's like I said, I had scholarships, and in the summer I took my skills learned from education and made money in photography. I didn't lose my scholarship. So why should a scholarship athlete helping run a summer camp in his/her sport not able to earn off their skills?

All very solid. Nice post.

[legallykenny]

2. Allow athletes to benefit from own celebrity independent of college. You can place in-season regulations to administer time spent, but out of season and in offseason, they can make money all they want. During the season if some restaurant wants to sponsor them free food for their mere presence because said presence likely draws in actual patrons to see them, etc., then so what?

Might as well just shut down the system if you're going to do that because it becomes a bidding war that only a few schools will compete in. Prepare to lose every single star recruit in FB to Texas, 'Bama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Florida, Michigan, ND, USC and OSU and every BB recruit to Texas, Kentucky, UNC and Michigan. Most schools have no chance of matching the summer "appearance" and "job" comp that those schools would offer.

The only viable reforms are guaranteed 5-year scholarships with a waiver against the sport scholly cap for injuries (which the BIG and PAC are already moving towards anyway) and some minimal salary that at least all of the power conference schools can afford - probably something like 25k a year for FB and BB and less or nothing for non-revenue sports.

[Daryl Zero]

I posted the video in another thread.

I do believe that the college system has to shut down or completely change. It isn't amateur athletics (for football and men's basketball) other than they don't have to pay the athletes. I've said it before so won't repeat it.

[ASUHATER!]

I posted the video in another thread.

I do believe that the college system has to shut down or completely change. It isn't amateur athletics (for football and men's basketball) other than they don't have to pay the athletes. I've said it before so won't repeat it.

So if it doesn't change you are ok with ending college sports?

[azthrillhouse]

So why should a scholarship athlete helping run a summer camp in his/her sport not able to earn off their skills?

I think the only argument for most of these restrictions is the artifice of maintaining competitive balance. Those types of opportunities would be available to an Alabama football player, but not to a UAB football player due to the prestige of the program, fan interest, etc.

But, it is an artifice - competitive balance is in large part determined today by how much a fan base is itself willing to spend and is motivated to pressure its university to spend. Opening up these opportunities won't widen the gulf between the haves and the have-nots, it's already about as wide as it can get.

The saving grace of competitive balance is playing time - a kid might like the idea of getting some side benefits at Alabama knowing that he will have a hard time beating out the two 5-stars on the depth chart in front of him, but there's going to be plenty that are going to want to go someplace where they can actually play and showcase themselves.


EDIT: Didn't see Kenny's post, would have been better to reply to it.

[Daryl Zero]

I posted the video in another thread.

I do believe that the college system has to shut down or completely change. It isn't amateur athletics (for football and men's basketball) other than they don't have to pay the athletes. I've said it before so won't repeat it.

So if it doesn't change you are ok with ending college sports?

The only college sports that would end are men's football and basketball. And yes, I think they have to change because I believe they exploit the athletes in a ridiculously bad way. Colleges have essentially become publicly funded minor leagues. The rest of the sports are legitimately amateur sports.

[JMarkJohns]

2. Allow athletes to benefit from own celebrity independent of college. You can place in-season regulations to administer time spent, but out of season and in offseason, they can make money all they want. During the season if some restaurant wants to sponsor them free food for their mere presence because said presence likely draws in actual patrons to see them, etc., then so what?

Might as well just shut down the system if you're going to do that because it becomes a bidding war that only a few schools will compete in. Prepare to lose every single star recruit in FB to Texas, 'Bama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Florida, Michigan, ND, USC and OSU and every BB recruit to Texas, Kentucky, UNC and Michigan. Most schools have no chance of matching the summer "appearance" and "job" comp that those schools would offer.

The only viable reforms are guaranteed 5-year scholarships with a waiver against the sport scholly cap for injuries (which the BIG and PAC are already moving towards anyway) and some minimal salary that at least all of the power conference schools can afford - probably something like 25k a year for FB and BB and less or nothing for non-revenue sports.

Schools only have so many scholarships/roster spots/regularized roles/starring roles/years to benefit the individual player.

The cream of the crop may every year bring in that year's best, but they'll quickly note in doing so they will sacrifice continuity and development because many will transfer if recruited over or the well runs dry in financial opportunity.

The idea the top-25 programs will hoard every great player every year is laughable.

The idea that most boosters are bottomless wells of financial support to the tune of millions of dollars a year (or even hundreds of thousands) is absurd. Outside of the T Boone's of this world, most boosters are wealthy, not epically rich, and, you can always put a cap on how much an individual can proffer to an institution. Sure, there's ways around that, see any campaign fund, but, the idea this can't work because there's too much money isn't true.

Why would a successful businessman hemorrhage cash yearly for a fandom that doesn't really put funds back in his wallet? Sure, he'll spend within reason, and sure, the greatest of the great will likely follow the top dollar yearly and make a nice amount, but so what?

Most kids will still go to the best college for them, independent of money. I think it's similar to the mindset of college baseball. Most preps drafted don't sign and go to school, despite the opportunity to earn a good amount of money while playing baseball. Most top basketball prospects turn down lucrative contracts overseas to go to school, even if for a year.

The talent simply cannot be hoarded over a long period of time due to the inherent nature of prospects wanting to play, want to star, wanting to earn more.

I just don't see boosters treating their hard earned dollars like Halloween candy to every prospect every year in an extravagant fashion.

And like I said, even if it happens, legislation can help keep things in check.

And like DZ said, it's mostly for Football, Basketball, and maybe some Baseball and Hockey in certain regions.

[Jwsisliving]

I posted the video in another thread.

I do believe that the college system has to shut down or completely change. It isn't amateur athletics (for football and men's basketball) other than they don't have to pay the athletes. I've said it before so won't repeat it.

So if it doesn't change you are ok with ending college sports?

The only college sports that would end are men's football and basketball.

Only them

So you mean only the two college sports most people give a crap about.

Can't remember the last time I got excited about lacrosse or rowing.

[azgreg]

I wouldn't be surprised if sports left both high school and college all together and became club sports.

[qwertyus]

I've never been totally on board with the whole "NCAA sucks" bandwagon. I mean, they suck, and there are silly rules and regulations that should be changed, but I don't think there's an inherent moral wrongness with the concept. The NCAA doesn't force people to play sports. These athletes aren't forced to play basketball, football, gymnastics, or ultimate frisbee, and they know the rules of the game when they sign up. If you don't like them, don't play within that organization. There are student-run and athletic department-run versions of these things at most universities of any reasonable size. Instead, play for fun, play pickup games, don't play at all, whatever makes you happy. The fact that the NCAA makes money off of these events isn't evil in and of itself, because the athletes that play have the freedom to decide not to play.

Now, I'm sure the arguments surrounding scholarships are bound to come up. I don't know whether or not a scholarship is "enough compensation" for athletes, and I'm sure there are things about athletic scholarships that could be changed for the better. Doesn't really matter either way from a moral point of view in my mind, as long as the requirements and rewards of the scholarship are explicitly stated.

[Daryl Zero]

I posted the video in another thread.

I do believe that the college system has to shut down or completely change. It isn't amateur athletics (for football and men's basketball) other than they don't have to pay the athletes. I've said it before so won't repeat it.

So if it doesn't change you are ok with ending college sports?

The only college sports that would end are men's football and basketball.

Only them

So you mean only the two college sports most people give a crap about.

Can't remember the last time I got excited about lacrosse or rowing.

That's the problem. The colleges (collectively) are making billions of dollars on this cash cow and the players don't get much of it and are subject to stupid rules. Its going to change whether by the players, the courts or what have you. The fact that we like watching the sports isn't a reason to keep it going this way.

[ASUHATER!]

I posted the video in another thread.

I do believe that the college system has to shut down or completely change. It isn't amateur athletics (for football and men's basketball) other than they don't have to pay the athletes. I've said it before so won't repeat it.

So if it doesn't change you are ok with ending college sports?

The only college sports that would end are men's football and basketball. And yes, I think they have to change because I believe they exploit the athletes in a ridiculously bad way. Colleges have essentially become publicly funded minor leagues. The rest of the sports are legitimately amateur sports.

I'll never agree they are exploited when they get tens of thousands a year in benefits and perks yearly

[qwertyus]

I posted the video in another thread.

I do believe that the college system has to shut down or completely change. It isn't amateur athletics (for football and men's basketball) other than they don't have to pay the athletes. I've said it before so won't repeat it.

So if it doesn't change you are ok with ending college sports?

The only college sports that would end are men's football and basketball.

Only them

So you mean only the two college sports most people give a crap about.

Can't remember the last time I got excited about lacrosse or rowing.

That's the problem. The colleges (collectively) are making billions of dollars on this cash cow and the players don't get much of it and are subject to stupid rules. Its going to change whether by the players, the courts or what have you. The fact that we like watching the sports isn't a reason to keep it going this way.

...So what? So what that people make money in the NCAA system? So what if players "don't get much", whatever the hell that means? If you don't like it, don't play within it, don't support it by watching it.

[Salty]

2. Allow athletes to benefit from own celebrity independent of college. You can place in-season regulations to administer time spent, but out of season and in offseason, they can make money all they want. During the season if some restaurant wants to sponsor them free food for their mere presence because said presence likely draws in actual patrons to see them, etc., then so what?

Might as well just shut down the system if you're going to do that because it becomes a bidding war that only a few schools will compete in. Prepare to lose every single star recruit in FB to Texas, 'Bama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Florida, Michigan, ND, USC and OSU and every BB recruit to Texas, Kentucky, UNC and Michigan. Most schools have no chance of matching the summer "appearance" and "job" comp that those schools would offer.

The only viable reforms are guaranteed 5-year scholarships with a waiver against the sport scholly cap for injuries (which the BIG and PAC are already moving towards anyway) and some minimal salary that at least all of the power conference schools can afford - probably something like 25k a year for FB and BB and less or nothing for non-revenue sports.

100% agree.

[Salty]

I posted the video in another thread.

I do believe that the college system has to shut down or completely change. It isn't amateur athletics (for football and men's basketball) other than they don't have to pay the athletes. I've said it before so won't repeat it.

So if it doesn't change you are ok with ending college sports?

The only college sports that would end are men's football and basketball.

Only them

So you mean only the two college sports most people give a crap about.

Can't remember the last time I got excited about lacrosse or rowing.

That's the problem. The colleges (collectively) are making billions of dollars on this cash cow and the players don't get much of it and are subject to stupid rules. Its going to change whether by the players, the courts or what have you. The fact that we like watching the sports isn't a reason to keep it going this way.

The vast, vast majority of the money that the NCAA makes goes directly to funding non-revenue earning sports, like swimming or gymnastics.

Take away that funding and the University's have to pick up those tabs. Which means higher tuition for students.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So why should a scholarship athlete helping run a summer camp in his/her sport not able to earn off their skills?

I think the only argument for most of these restrictions is the artifice of maintaining competitive balance. Those types of opportunities would be available to an Alabama football player, but not to a UAB football player due to the prestige of the program, fan interest, etc.

But, it is an artifice - competitive balance is in large part determined today by how much a fan base is itself willing to spend and is motivated to pressure its university to spend. Opening up these opportunities won't widen the gulf between the haves and the have-nots, it's already about as wide as it can get.

The saving grace of competitive balance is playing time - a kid might like the idea of getting some side benefits at Alabama knowing that he will have a hard time beating out the two 5-stars on the depth chart in front of him, but there's going to be plenty that are going to want to go someplace where they can actually play and showcase themselves.


EDIT: Didn't see Kenny's post, would have been better to reply to it.

X2 on this post, especially the fallacy about widening the competitive gap. Kentucky dominates basketball recruiting. Alabama has 4 straight #1 classes. There is no competition right now. UAB and Alabama aren't fishing in the same pool to begin with.

There is really no reason to simply allow athletes to profit off their image. Doesn't offend Title IX because it's equal. Doesn't cost the school a penny. Ends the hypocrisy.

[azgreg]

It's my understanding that very few athletic programs in college are in the black.

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's my understanding that very few athletic programs in college are in the black.

That's correct. The NCAA is the suckling piggy we could turn into delicious bacon.

If anything, allowing athletes to profit off their image would only help schools keep expenses lower. If Nike wants to sign Marcus Mariota to a shoe deal, he's not gonna need as much of a monthly stipend from Oregon.

[Daryl Zero]

It's my understanding that very few athletic programs in college are in the black.

That's because of their expenditures. Not only on non-revenue generating sports but also facilities, salaries etc. Its like saying non-profits don't make money. They do. They just have to spend all of their money.

I do not agree that these athletes in the revenue generating sports are not exploited. Some of you are saying don't support them. I don't really support them directly at all. I do go to a few games but usually with donated tickets. I don't support the sponsors. I don't pay into the system other than the Pac12 network. I don't buy the merchandise.

Do I love watching the college games? Yes. Do I love talking about them? Yes. But I also recognize that something stinks about it.

This has been the system for about 100 years or so. It hasn't been this lucrative for that long. Something will change. Pretending that everything is okay is an okay strategy I guess but it will change.