Fallen Leaf

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:36 am

Conspiracy theorist in me thinks he was always plant (by Adidas, Magic, UCLA), sent to lull Arizona into false security, then decommit at one of the times it would hurt the most (dead period, day prior to Hands visit) in a way that captured headlines for multiple reasons (AAU, National Team), inferring along the way reasons of infidelity (always recruiting others), slow pace (no freedom), and then reclassify and join UCLA as the 14th scholarship where Bryce then walks on to make room.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:28 am

JMark- When did you get the tinfoil hat?!!

JMarkJohns · Post by **JMarkJohns** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:35 am

Alieberman wrote:JMark- When did you get the tinfoil hat?!!

I've been driven to it.

You don't go from possibly reclassifying and coming to Arizona early to reclassifying and going to UCLA as a 14th scholarship without a great deal of bullshit having been wade through, and from that point in April to now August seems like too short a time. Convenience of it all is all too convenient.

The callousness with which things have ended speaks to a long-term issue, maybe a long-term feigned interest.

Catstatic · Post by **Catstatic** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:32 am

My speculation on this:

1) Maybe Leaf was furious about not making the U19 team and blamed Miller, right or wrong. If he left because of this, good riddance. If he thought Miller would hand him anything, even at U of A, he was misinformed.

2) Maybe Miller didn't like what he saw in Leaf at the U19 tryouts, and they came to a mutual agreement. Hard to believe this since Leaf is clearly a top-tier player and no team has the talent to pass on a top 15 player.

3) Perhaps someone got in his ear and convinced him the grass is greener at UCLA, some other college, or overseas. If this is the case then it had to be a family decision. My guess is some $$ would be involved in this scenario, particularly if he decides to play in Europe.

My completely ignorant guess is that, of the three, 3 is most likely.

One of the things I don't think Miller gets enough credit for is his ability to make guys into the best defensive players they can be. Leaf is obviously a talent. If he had learned defense from Miller, there is a good chance he lasts in the NBA an extra 2-3 years at least. Imagine the financial benefit of that!

Honestly, none of the above scenarios make sense. Probably why this seems like such a shock to many of us. Any word from the coaching staff on this?

Go Cats!!

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:34 am

JMarkJohns wrote:
Alieberman wrote:JMark- When did you get the tinfoil hat?!!
I've been driven to it.

You don't go from possibly reclassifying and coming to Arizona early to reclassifying and going to UCLA as a 14th scholarship without a great deal of bullshit having been wade through, and from that point in April to now August seems like too short a time. Convenience of it all is all too convenient.

The callousness with which things have ended speaks to a long-term issue, maybe a long-term feigned interest.

My tin foil hat is on as well. As I mentioned earlier it is far from coincidence this happened a day before Jaylen Hands's visit.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:02 pm

Maybe a kid just changed his mind?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:05 pm

Catstatic wrote: My guess is some $$ would be involved in this scenario, particularly if he decides to play in Europe.

My completely ignorant guess is that, of the three, 3 is most likely.

Probably Israel if he does go pro. He did pretty well this summer there making U18 Euro tourney MVP averaging 16/8.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:06 pm

Alieberman wrote:Maybe a kid just changed his mind?

He definitely had people in his ear about it.

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:03 pm

Merkin wrote:
Catstatic wrote: My guess is some $$ would be involved in this scenario, particularly if he decides to play in Europe.

My completely ignorant guess is that, of the three, 3 is most likely.
Probably Israel if he does go pro. He did pretty well this summer there making U18 Euro tourney MVP averaging 16/8.

I think this has everything to do with the decision..and it's just that simple. Kids that age are pretty impressionable and an experience abroad like that, after getting dropped by Miller, well it makes lots of sense.

Catstatic · Post by **Catstatic** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:14 pm

threenumberones wrote:
Merkin wrote:
Catstatic wrote: My guess is some $$ would be involved in this scenario, particularly if he decides to play in Europe.

My completely ignorant guess is that, of the three, 3 is most likely.
Probably Israel if he does go pro. He did pretty well this summer there making U18 Euro tourney MVP averaging 16/8.
I think this has everything to do with the decision..and it's just that simple. Kids that age are pretty impressionable and an experience abroad like that, after getting dropped by Miller, well it makes lots of sense.

I agree. I think his success in that tournament as well as people in his ear about staying there and playing professionally for a year was the difference. Another school like UCLA? That would surprise me. Regardless, Miller must be fuming and considering what (if anything) the staff can do to ensure this does not happen again.

Go Cats!!

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:24 pm

My guess is it was the compton magic who pressed him repeatedly about Jarrett and more specifically York's career. Lot of hands in that cookie jar for sure

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:33 pm

azcat49 wrote:My guess is it was the compton magic who pressed him repeatedly about Jarrett and more specifically York's career. Lot of hands in that cookie jar for sure

What is wrong with York's career? The kid has played major minutes for two seasons, and has had many starts. Not bad for a player that wasn't a 5-star recruit and who is a bit undersized.

luteformayor2 · Post by **luteformayor2** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:42 pm

Easily replaceable.

Get fucked.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:45 pm

Catstatic wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
Merkin wrote:
Catstatic wrote: My guess is some $$ would be involved in this scenario, particularly if he decides to play in Europe.

My completely ignorant guess is that, of the three, 3 is most likely.
Probably Israel if he does go pro. He did pretty well this summer there making U18 Euro tourney MVP averaging 16/8.
I think this has everything to do with the decision..and it's just that simple. Kids that age are pretty impressionable and an experience abroad like that, after getting dropped by Miller, well it makes lots of sense.
I agree. I think his success in that tournament as well as people in his ear about staying there and playing professionally for a year was the difference. Another school like UCLA? That would surprise me. Regardless, Miller must be fuming and considering what (if anything) the staff can do to ensure this does not happen again.

Go Cats!!

He almost committed to UCLA before he committed to Arizona, but something with ADIDAS got soured. It had since been rectified

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:05 pm

KaibabKat wrote:Do you miss me yet?

Yes, I do.

But I am recovering better than those that still long for this guy... The one with 'that passion, that energy'.

Catstatic · Post by **Catstatic** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:06 pm

luteformayor2 wrote:Easily replaceable.

Get fucked.

Now that's funny!

Thanks, I needed that.

Go Cats!!

az91 · Post by **az91** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:17 pm

MrBug708 wrote:
Catstatic wrote:
threenumberones wrote:
Merkin wrote:
Catstatic wrote: My guess is some $$ would be involved in this scenario, particularly if he decides to play in Europe.

My completely ignorant guess is that, of the three, 3 is most likely.
Probably Israel if he does go pro. He did pretty well this summer there making U18 Euro tourney MVP averaging 16/8.
I think this has everything to do with the decision..and it's just that simple. Kids that age are pretty impressionable and an experience abroad like that, after getting dropped by Miller, well it makes lots of sense.
I agree. I think his success in that tournament as well as people in his ear about staying there and playing professionally for a year was the difference. Another school like UCLA? That would surprise me. Regardless, Miller must be fuming and considering what (if anything) the staff can do to ensure this does not happen again.

Go Cats!!
He almost committed to UCLA before he committed to Arizona, but something with ADIDAS got soured. It had since been rectified

Interesting, so the next time we hear about Leaf, it will most likely be that he has committed to UCLA?

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:28 pm

az91 wrote:
Interesting, so the next time we hear about Leaf, it will most likely be that he has committed to UCLA?

I dont think it's a forgone conclusion right now, but I think people wouldnt be shocked if he ended up at UCLA

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:32 pm

MrBug708 wrote:
az91 wrote:
Interesting, so the next time we hear about Leaf, it will most likely be that he has committed to UCLA?
I dont think it's a forgone conclusion right now, but I think people wouldnt be shocked if he ended up at UCLA

He'll put on a farce and act like he's really open, take some visits to some big schools, and then pop for ucla just like Shabazz did. Bad secrets abound in Westwood.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:36 pm

midnightx wrote:
azcat49 wrote:My guess is it was the compton magic who pressed him repeatedly about Jarrett and more specifically York's career. Lot of hands in that cookie jar for sure
What is wrong with York's career? The kid has played major minutes for two seasons, and has had many starts. Not bad for a player that wasn't a 5-star recruit and who is a bit undersized.

He was considered a god in the LA basketball scene. He's been far from that at Arizona. The problem is you're thinking with your higher cognitive function and using common sense for your basis of reasoning. AAU programs and parents don't have the ability to do that. Irrationality to the thought of how good Gabe York really is has hurt the perception of Arizona. Hell you can say the same for Zeus for the simple fact that he was ridiculously overrated by recruiting sites when his physical limitations were more than obvious from the get go. It sucks, but it is what it is. Miller has made some bad recruiting choices during his prime years on the recruiting trail. This 2015 class is a move in the right direction though minus an immediate star.

MrBug708 · Post by **MrBug708** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:57 pm

A god in the LA basketball scene?

lol

ghostwhitehorse · Post by **ghostwhitehorse** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:22 pm

TJ Leaf = Ryan Leaf?

. . . mostly.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:26 pm

MrBug708 wrote:A god in the LA basketball scene?

lol

York City was a movement my man. You probably weren't aware because when he was in high school UCLA didn't even field a basketball team.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:55 pm

Since when is a 4 year player who has improved every year and is a preseason all PAC player a recruting mistake? People love to pile on, and to regurgitate opinions of scouts who did not rate a player the same as others.

I find the fandom of some very entertaining.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:57 am

Olsondogg wrote:Since when is a 4 year player who has improved every year and is a preseason all PAC player a recruting mistake? People love to pile on, and to regurgitate opinions of scouts who did not rate a player the same as others.

I find the fandom of some very entertaining.

Someone called him a recruiting mistake? I sure wouldn't since he has contributed to Arizona, but when the lack of showcasing him greatly hurts your cause with an AAU program that currently has the most talent on the west coast it's not exactly good. We also chose Gabe York over Joseph Young. Was that the right decision for us? Especially when it seems that Sean Miller has no problem overrecruiting at positions he really doesn't need to over players who are similarly rated as Gabe York was? Either way Josiah Turner and Sidiki Johnson were recruiting mistakes. I sure wouldn't put Gabe York in that category no matter any negativity his presence could have possibly caused us on the recruiting trail. Arizona is bigger than one AAU program.

Also there's a preseason All-Pac 12 list already? One that includes Gabe York on it? You have a link for that?

whatisee · Post by **whatisee** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:38 am

Gabe York is turning into this teams Fogg. Witch IMO is a good thing. Clutch...he should have a great year this year IMO. This team is going to be much better than people are giving them credit for.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:13 am

York is going to get a lot of minutes at the point guard position besides starting at the 2 while Trier and Simon learn to adapt to the college game. PJC is certainly going to be good, but as we saw last year the other teams took advantage of his low stature so Miller had to yank him.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:17 am

Merkin wrote:York is going to get a lot of minutes at the point guard position besides starting at the 2 while Trier and Simon learn to adapt to the college game. PJC is certainly going to be good, but as we saw last year the other teams took advantage of his low stature so Miller had to yank him.

This entire post, and especially the first portion of the first sentence, completely contradicts the bolded part in the post below. If Parker's low stature is going to haunt this team enough to the point where Miller is giving Gabe York "a lot of minutes at the point guard position" then Miller made a mistake in recruiting Parker plain and simple, because Gabe York has zero business commanding a lot of minutes at point guard. Honestly the more minutes PJC has on the court the better this team will be and I'm sure Miller knows that.

whatisee wrote:Gabe York is turning into this teams Fogg. Witch IMO is a good thing. Clutch...he should have a great year this year IMO. This team is going to be much better than people are giving them credit for.

Just don't see this team being "much better" than people are giving them credit for. I mean ESPN picks this team to be 15th in the nation and IMO that's generous enough as is. The real talent on this team is very young and aren't the Stanley/Gordon type of players who contribute at a high level immediately. I just don't see it...

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:44 am

15th is probably fair. PJC will show flashes but still is too small and too inconsistent to be a floor general that TJ was or what is needed with this group to win the conference by multiple games. Hope he figures it out by PAC12 play but I would not bet on that right now.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:49 pm

PHXCATS wrote:15th is probably fair. PJC will show flashes but still is too small and too inconsistent to be a floor general that TJ was or what is needed with this group to win the conference by multiple games. Hope he figures it out by PAC12 play but I would not bet on that right now.

I doubt even the people very optimistic about PJC (me included) thinks he'll be as good this year as TJ was last year, but he's by far and away Arizona's best option at point guard to win as many games as possible and it's not even close.

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:37 pm

If PJC makes the 'usual' freshman to sophomore jump he still may not be quite as good as TJ was last year but he could very well be dang close.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:44 pm

Can we move this off the Arizona Basketball forum?

Hobbes · Post by **Hobbes** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:11 pm

I am hoping that we can count on PJC this year. If PJC can run the point successfully, York will be freed up to do what he does best: Shoot off the ball.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:33 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:15th is probably fair. PJC will show flashes but still is too small and too inconsistent to be a floor general that TJ was or what is needed with this group to win the conference by multiple games. Hope he figures it out by PAC12 play but I would not bet on that right now.
I doubt even the people very optimistic about PJC (me included) thinks he'll be as good this year as TJ was last year, but he's by far and away Arizona's best option at point guard to win as many games as possible and it's not even close.

Been a long time since we had a PG like TJ, and going to be a long time again before we see another. Shakur's senior year was the last good PG year before TJ.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:38 pm

Merkin wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:15th is probably fair. PJC will show flashes but still is too small and too inconsistent to be a floor general that TJ was or what is needed with this group to win the conference by multiple games. Hope he figures it out by PAC12 play but I would not bet on that right now.
I doubt even the people very optimistic about PJC (me included) thinks he'll be as good this year as TJ was last year, but he's by far and away Arizona's best option at point guard to win as many games as possible and it's not even close.

Been a long time since we had a PG like TJ, and going to be a long time again before we see another. Shakur's senior year was the last good PG year before TJ.

That's a fair take, but I'm curious why you believe it will be a long time before we have another great point guard year? Is it merely PJC's small stature that deters you from believing he could have a year like TJ did or a year like Shakur's season year? Honestly he's everything you want at point guard from a skill set stand point so I don't know why you have no hopes for the kid? I understand this upcoming year, but he has two upperclassmen years ahead of him.

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:46 pm

My concerns with pjc have nothing to do with his size and everything to do with his inability to play on the road.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:09 pm

gronk4heisman wrote:My concerns with pjc have nothing to do with his size and everything to do with his inability to play on the road.

Did very well in 3 of his last 4 road games. I wasn't even aware this was a concern?

gronk4heisman · Post by **gronk4heisman** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:24 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
gronk4heisman wrote:My concerns with pjc have nothing to do with his size and everything to do with his inability to play on the road.
Did very well in 3 of his last 4 road games. I wasn't even aware this was a concern?

What games are those? His a:to on the road was 6:10, at home 42:9. To me that seems like an issue. His last road game miller barely played him because he couldn't handle it.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:31 pm

So leaf is looking at 8 (!) schools, none of which is Arizona.

ok then.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:55 pm

gronk4heisman wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
gronk4heisman wrote:My concerns with pjc have nothing to do with his size and everything to do with his inability to play on the road.
Did very well in 3 of his last 4 road games. I wasn't even aware this was a concern?
What games are those? His a:to on the road was 6:10, at home 42:9. To me that seems like an issue. His last road game miller barely played him because he couldn't handle it.

Cal, Furd, and Colorado. Didn't play much against Utah for obvious reasons, but his A/TO ratio was 1:1 in those games in back up minutes. To me the stats you posted were pretty much consistent with any freshman back up point guard. Obviously those tend to improve as they get older.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:44 pm

So our one and only 2016 pledge in TJ Leaf just completely out of the blue decommit's from one of the best BB programs on the planet (UofA) and its just a yawn or on to the next one crap.

Not only does he go from a committed position, to a decommit, he now has 8 other schools that he is considering and the UofA doesn't even get a reach around as if we don't even exist.

Does anyone seriously think that any of this is on the up an up as being presented.

Even an outsider from afar can look at this situation and see something happened that was "personal" to the point that there must be some kind of hard feeling somewhere between the parties involved not being talked about.

The AAU Adidas finger pointing slant is just a smoke screen of BS to lead you off of the trail. Leaf said all of the right things about the program so he won't be looked at as tainted goods. Thats just smart business and logical.

Something personal from a negative standpoint was bubbling below the surface that is driving this logic defying decision and it hasn't got jackshit to do with playing overseas either.

So now its 8 new schools and not one of them involves Arizona on the list. Sorry I'm not buying the BS being fed to the public.

Going to be interesting when the truth comes out, and it will.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:06 pm

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:16 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:Does anyone seriously think that any of this is on the up an up as being presented.

The absolute first thing I thought when I saw it was eight schools and saw the eight schools listed (including no Arizona) was 'This is smoke. This is the type of big list you put out when you want it to seem like you're open.'

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:27 pm

SCCats wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:Does anyone seriously think that any of this is on the up an up as being presented.
The absolute first thing I thought when I saw it was eight schools and saw the eight schools listed (including no Arizona) was 'This is smoke. This is the type of big list you put out when you want it to seem like you're open.'

Behind the closed doors something happened and we are not being told at this point.

Sean Miller being blindsided by Leaf's decommit is very likely more BS as well. This drastic move involves some self-serving hard feelings somewhere along the line and its hard to tell who, what, where and when is really at the center of the situation.

Nothing about this remotely passes the smell test.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:04 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:So our one and only 2016 pledge in TJ Leaf just completely out of the blue decommit's from one of the best BB programs on the planet (UofA) and its just a yawn or on to the next one crap.

Who's saying this?

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:09 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:
SCCats wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:Does anyone seriously think that any of this is on the up an up as being presented.
The absolute first thing I thought when I saw it was eight schools and saw the eight schools listed (including no Arizona) was 'This is smoke. This is the type of big list you put out when you want it to seem like you're open.'

Behind the closed doors something happened and we are not being told at this point.

Sean Miller being blindsided by Leaf's decommit is very likely more BS as well. This drastic move involves some self-serving hard feelings somewhere along the line and its hard to tell who, what, where and when is really at the center of the situation.

Nothing about this remotely passes the smell test.

The Adidas crap isn't smoke screen and I have no idea why you'd prefer to throw Arizona under the bus here as opposed to seeing basketball recruiting for what it really is. Hell before he committed to Arizona nobody expected him to do so, he was pegged for UCLA from the get go, but something that didn't sit right with his circle put them out of contention when he decided he wanted to commit. There was enough time between his commitment to Arizona and to his signing day to create amends and here we are. Also outside of Jerryd Bayless, how many guys have decommitted from a school publicly and ended up seriously considering them let alone committing to them after? Arizona isn't going to waste the time recruiting him now. That's why they're not on the list amongst other reasons.

We all have our tin foil hat on here, I get it, but you're taking it to an extreme that just isn't there. It's been clear from the get go what is going on and UCLA fans even admit it.

Also fwiw there hasn't been many recruits that have committed to UCLA that have remotely passed the smell test in some years. Kyle Anderson, Kevon Looney, any of the Georgia kids they've landed, the Isaac Hamilton recruitment fiasco, and of course Shabazz Muhammad.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:10 am

Now that was some funny and out of context ****, with or without a tin foil hat.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:13 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:Now that was some funny and out of context ****, with or without a tin foil hat.

No more funny than your ridiculously out of context smell test. You may want to get checked out for anosmia or maybe simply remove the turd from your nose.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:36 am

Gladiator Cat wrote:So our one and only 2016 pledge in TJ Leaf just completely out of the blue decommit's from one of the best BB programs on the planet (UofA) and its just a yawn or on to the next one crap.

Not only does he go from a committed position, to a decommit, he now has 8 other schools that he is considering and the UofA doesn't even get a reach around as if we don't even exist.

Does anyone seriously think that any of this is on the up an up as being presented.

Even an outsider from afar can look at this situation and see something happened that was "personal" to the point that there must be some kind of hard feeling somewhere between the parties involved not being talked about.

The AAU Adidas finger pointing slant is just a smoke screen of BS to lead you off of the trail. Leaf said all of the right things about the program so he won't be looked at as tainted goods. Thats just smart business and logical.

Something personal from a negative standpoint was bubbling below the surface that is driving this logic defying decision and it hasn't got jackshit to do with playing overseas either.

So now its 8 new schools and not one of them involves Arizona on the list. Sorry I'm not buying the BS being fed to the public.

Going to be interesting when the truth comes out, and it will.

Maybe he just did not enjoy his experience with Miller before being cut? Or maybe he just changed his mind since he committed fairly early. I do not think there is a personal thing or anything that is fraudulent or illegal going on.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:54 am

I highly highly doubt there was a nefarious plan by Adidas, UCLA, and the Illuminati to bring down Arizona Basketball from the inside. The kid changed his mind. We should probably just accept it and move on as a fanbase.

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