Bear Down Wildcats

The way I see it, anything will be an improvement

cerec_cat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:24 pm The way I see it, anything will be an improvement

In that case, welcome aboard Todd Graham.

azgreg wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:26 pm

cerec_cat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:24 pm The way I see it, anything will be an improvement

In that case, welcome aboard Todd Graham.

Well let’s don’t get stupid about it!

either Napier or Sarkisian i be fine with.

Brad stated yesterday he believed it wouldn’t be a retread but instead either a current Group of 5 HC or a Power 5 assistant.

Chicat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:11 pm

Brad stated yesterday he believed it wouldn’t be a retread but instead either a current Group of 5 HC or a Power 5 assistant.

I call BS It sound like Heeke is pretty damn desperate if news will be in a week.

cordera89 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:17 pm

Chicat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:11 pm

Brad stated yesterday he believed it wouldn’t be a retread but instead either a current Group of 5 HC or a Power 5 assistant.

I call BS It sound like Heeke is pretty damn desperate if news will be in a week.

You literally don’t know your asshole from your elbow.

Chicat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:18 pm

cordera89 wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:17 pm

Chicat wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:11 pm

Brad stated yesterday he believed it wouldn’t be a retread but instead either a current Group of 5 HC or a Power 5 assistant.

I call BS It sound like Heeke is pretty damn desperate if news will be in a week.

You literally don’t know your asshole from your elbow.

Again i going to call BS because our AD is so damn Desperate on trying not to screw up. So strike two.

From what I've seen, I like Hill. Brennan-not so much and definitely not Sark please.

Carcassdragger wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:43 pm From what I've seen, I like Hill. Brennan-not so much and definitely not Sark please.

What don’t you like about Brennan? Think of it this way, if this was a COVID free season, he’d put up at least 10 wins this year.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:10 am

Carcassdragger wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:43 pm From what I've seen, I like Hill. Brennan-not so much and definitely not Sark please.

What don’t you like about Brennan? Think of it this way, if this was a COVID free season, he’d put up at least 10 wins this year.

I feel like one good year shouldn’t be the only thing you need to get a P5 job. Would like him more if he had 3 consecutive years of good results at SJSU.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:10 am

Carcassdragger wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:43 pm From what I've seen, I like Hill. Brennan-not so much and definitely not Sark please.

What don’t you like about Brennan? Think of it this way, if this was a COVID free season, he’d put up at least 10 wins this year.

I'm not CD, but my reservation about Brennan is that it's really only this year we'd be hiring him off. Before this year, he was at or below the norm for SJSU.

Now, that doesn't mean he's not worth hiring, because SJSU is a tough job and this year is historically good for them. I just wish he'd done it there for one or two more years so it was clearer this year wasn't a Covid aberration or flash in the pan.

But realistically, we're not in a position to hire a sure thing regardless.

I'm with hiring Hill. A newcomer with a proven record. Let get him hired today and not lose the recruiting season as much as we did last time.

If you look at the roster at SJST it would appear they are poised to be competitive into the future.

He did it mostly by recruiting his local area and if the thought is he will recruit AZ well, I am not sure of that. I think kids want to get away these days.

I love the tie in with Dick Tomey and the fact he would appeal to past players. That is enough for me but I get it when others disagree

azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:09 am If you look at the roster at SJST it would appear they are poised to be competitive into the future.

He did it mostly by recruiting his local area and if the thought is he will recruit AZ well, I am not sure of that. I think kids want to get away these days.

I love the tie in with Dick Tomey and the fact he would appeal to past players. That is enough for me but I get it when others disagree

I would not mind the hire. When Sumlin was hired, I would say 95% of the people on this board thought Heeke hit a home run. They thought ASU made a mistake in hiring Edwards.
I remember when Tomey was hired, there were people scratching their heads. The UofA football program is not a top-25 program, so I would not mind hiring Brennan or Hill. Give them a few years to bring in their type of players. I believe Brennan would not use the UofA as a stepping stone. I just hope Heeke does not hire a former head coach who has been fired in the past. They need to go in the other direction.

With Brennan, seems like another year and everybody else would be on him. I don’t think being a GA for a year would appease those wanting alumni because it seems like that’s a push for someone with a name to get a handout. I personally like Hill better, but I think either one is at least a much better hire from a strategic standpoint than what we’ve done in the past.

Seems like Brennan is the current frontrunner. He isn't a retread, has ties to the Tomey era, turned around a program and would come pretty cheap. Kind of seems like what we need right now.

azcat49 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:09 am If you look at the roster at SJST it would appear they are poised to be competitive into the future.

He did it mostly by recruiting his local area and if the thought is he will recruit AZ well, I am not sure of that. I think kids want to get away these days.

I love the tie in with Dick Tomey and the fact he would appeal to past players. That is enough for me but I get it when others disagree

Recruiting AZ well isn't enough to guarantee success. It would be nice if we weren't consistently losing battles in state, like we have been, but AZ doesn't produce enough players where a strong in state presence helps like it does in CA, TX or FL.

An upside for Brennan is that he's recruited out of CA, and that's probably our 2nd home base in a good recruiting world. He hopefully has some connections he could bring.

All of our up and comer candidates, I'd like a little more certainty, but I don't really think that's realistic. I vastly prefer a guy like Brennan or Hill to another retread like Sark. Another downside of a guy like Sark is that you have to believe if he does well, he's leaving. Brennan or Hill might stick around for long enough to build a foundation if they're able.

At this point there’s only two ways Heeke can disappoint me:

A) Hiring a retread looking for a nice soft landing spot to chill in the sun for a few years.

B) Letting this process play out for weeks and weeks until all the good candidates have lost interest or were hired away at other schools and all of our halfway decent recruits have decommitted.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:52 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:10 am

Carcassdragger wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:43 pm From what I've seen, I like Hill. Brennan-not so much and definitely not Sark please.

What don’t you like about Brennan? Think of it this way, if this was a COVID free season, he’d put up at least 10 wins this year.

I'm not CD, but my reservation about Brennan is that it's really only this year we'd be hiring him off. Before this year, he was at or below the norm for SJSU.

Now, that doesn't mean he's not worth hiring, because SJSU is a tough job and this year is historically good for them. I just wish he'd done it there for one or two more years so it was clearer this year wasn't a Covid aberration or flash in the pan.

But realistically, we're not in a position to hire a sure thing regardless.

The norm for SJSU? Have you ever seen SJSU football before? They had one solid year with Mike Macintyre (which he left for CU shortly after) and that's about it. His first two years were rough, but having to build a program from nothing (sound familiar?) will do that to you.

He's been on the uptick and that's all that matters. If you can build something at San Jose State, you can build it at Arizona.

We agree that he's not a sure thing, but he's certainly worth taking the chance on for numerous reasons.

Oh and NO MORE FUCKING EXPENSIVE RETREADS.

I would take Hill or Brennan and be very happy. Needs to happen now, get it done!!!

I mean it sounds like it's already Brennan

"12/13 Update: We believe Brennan is the leader in the clubhouse right now. Boosters and alumni have reached out to Dave Heeke to support Brennan, including former players who know him from his Arizona days or are close to him personally. Simply put, this is the easiest hire for Heeke to make and it sounds like the most likely as of now."

From here: https://247sports.com/college/arizona/L ... 156654779/

It ain't happening until after he coaches in the MWC Championship game on Saturday.

What do you think a deal for Brennan would be? $2m a year for 5 years?

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:10 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:52 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:10 am

Carcassdragger wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:43 pm From what I've seen, I like Hill. Brennan-not so much and definitely not Sark please.

What don’t you like about Brennan? Think of it this way, if this was a COVID free season, he’d put up at least 10 wins this year.

I'm not CD, but my reservation about Brennan is that it's really only this year we'd be hiring him off. Before this year, he was at or below the norm for SJSU.

Now, that doesn't mean he's not worth hiring, because SJSU is a tough job and this year is historically good for them. I just wish he'd done it there for one or two more years so it was clearer this year wasn't a Covid aberration or flash in the pan.

But realistically, we're not in a position to hire a sure thing regardless.

The norm for SJSU? Have you ever seen SJSU football before? They had one solid year with Mike Macintyre (which he left for CU shortly after) and that's about it. His first two years were rough, but having to build a program from nothing (sound familiar?) will do that to you.

He's been on the uptick and that's all that matters. If you can build something at San Jose State, you can build it at Arizona.

We agree that he's not a sure thing, but he's certainly worth taking the chance on for numerous reasons.

Oh and NO MORE FUCKING EXPENSIVE RETREADS.

Don't get me wrong, this year is very impressive at SJSU.

But the coach before had 4 years with 6, 3, 6 and 4 wins. Before this year, Brennan has 2, 1 and 5 wins.

This year is far above the SJSU norm, but the other years weren't. That's my only point, and I'm not saying we shouldn't hire him. I'm just saying before this year, he would not have been close to a candidate. This year is a very, very good one for SJSU.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:33 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:10 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:52 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:10 am

Carcassdragger wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:43 pm From what I've seen, I like Hill. Brennan-not so much and definitely not Sark please.

What don’t you like about Brennan? Think of it this way, if this was a COVID free season, he’d put up at least 10 wins this year.

I'm not CD, but my reservation about Brennan is that it's really only this year we'd be hiring him off. Before this year, he was at or below the norm for SJSU.

Now, that doesn't mean he's not worth hiring, because SJSU is a tough job and this year is historically good for them. I just wish he'd done it there for one or two more years so it was clearer this year wasn't a Covid aberration or flash in the pan.

But realistically, we're not in a position to hire a sure thing regardless.

The norm for SJSU? Have you ever seen SJSU football before? They had one solid year with Mike Macintyre (which he left for CU shortly after) and that's about it. His first two years were rough, but having to build a program from nothing (sound familiar?) will do that to you.

He's been on the uptick and that's all that matters. If you can build something at San Jose State, you can build it at Arizona.

We agree that he's not a sure thing, but he's certainly worth taking the chance on for numerous reasons.

Oh and NO MORE FUCKING EXPENSIVE RETREADS.

Don't get me wrong, this year is very impressive at SJSU.

But the coach before had 4 years with 6, 3, 6 and 4 wins. Before this year, Brennan has 2, 1 and 5 wins.

This year is far above the SJSU norm, but the other years weren't. That's my only point, and I'm not saying we shouldn't hire him. I'm just saying before this year, he would not have been close to a candidate. This year is a very, very good one for SJSU.

Yep. If we had fired Sumlin last year, Brennan would absolutely not be on our list of candidates.

The one year thing is a double edged sword. The optimistic way to see it is that we might be getting in on a good, rising prospect before he makes himself a hotter prospect than we can actually attract here.

The pessimistic way to see it is wondering if the one year is an aberration.

I'm really over retreads, and if we don't heave a massive buyout at him, I'm down to see what Brennan has. I worry about a big buyout because I'm not certain enough on him to want to be too heavily locked in, although the way the market is, there has to be some buyout.

I don't think we're ever going to have certainty on a hire. If we did, some other school would be all over them as well. Hill has a great background with Urban/Whit and has built a winner. Brennan seems to be a year away from what us and most schools would be looking for, a hot up and comer from a G5 conference.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:47 am The one year thing is a double edged sword. The optimistic way to see it is that we might be getting in on a good, rising prospect before he makes himself a hotter prospect than we can actually attract here.

The pessimistic way to see it is wondering if the one year is an aberration.

I'm really over retreads, and if we don't heave a massive buyout at him, I'm down to see what Brennan has. I worry about a big buyout because I'm not certain enough on him to want to be too heavily locked in, although the way the market is, there has to be some buyout.

Well like I said you have to look at progression. During his time at SJSU he and his program obviously progressed, which is what you want to see.

azgreg wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:32 am What do you think a deal for Brennan would be? $2m a year for 5 years?

Around that, yes.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:27 am It ain't happening until after he coaches in the MWC Championship game on Saturday.

So Brennan is "the guy" then eh?

I was really liking HIll but as always, if I happen to like a candidate, they're not gonna get the job

PieceOfMeat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:01 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:27 am It ain't happening until after he coaches in the MWC Championship game on Saturday.

So Brennan is "the guy" then eh?

I was really liking HIll but as always, if I happen to like a candidate, they're not gonna get the job

Not necessarily, especially if you’re looking to save a few bucks.

Hill makes more sense financially.

PieceOfMeat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:01 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:27 am It ain't happening until after he coaches in the MWC Championship game on Saturday.

So Brennan is "the guy" then eh?

I was really liking HIll but as always, if I happen to like a candidate, they're not gonna get the job

I'm not going to say he's "the guy," but he's certainly the favorite for numerous reasons.

Heeke better not fuck this up.

Brenan was 14-29 before this year. Really? This is the top guy. His 6-0 record this year could be the result of keeping his team healthy during COVID while other could not. I think this is a high risk hire but we are not exactly a sure thing destination. Not sure where to go.......

TheCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:34 am Brenan was 14-29 before this year. Really? This is the top guy. His 6-0 record this year could be the result of keeping his team healthy during COVID while other could not. I think this is a high risk hire but we are not exactly a sure thing destination. Not sure where to go.......

Brennan has a lot going for him that is not represented in his W/L record. He's certainly the type of guy we should be going after. Others like him might have better records but may not have a few other things we're looking for.

No one is a sure thing, but there are some guys out there that are definitely a bad choice. I don't think Brennan is one of them.

Chicat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:48 am

TheCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:34 am Brenan was 14-29 before this year. Really? This is the top guy. His 6-0 record this year could be the result of keeping his team healthy during COVID while other could not. I think this is a high risk hire but we are not exactly a sure thing destination. Not sure where to go.......

Brennan has a lot going for him that is not represented in his W/L record. He's certainly the type of guy we should be going after. Others like him might have better records but may not have a few other things we're looking for.

No one is a sure thing, but there are some guys out there that are definitely a bad choice. I don't think Brennan is one of them.

Then what happen if we choose him and fails within 4 season at the helm?

cordera89 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:54 am

Chicat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:48 am

TheCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:34 am Brenan was 14-29 before this year. Really? This is the top guy. His 6-0 record this year could be the result of keeping his team healthy during COVID while other could not. I think this is a high risk hire but we are not exactly a sure thing destination. Not sure where to go.......

Brennan has a lot going for him that is not represented in his W/L record. He's certainly the type of guy we should be going after. Others like him might have better records but may not have a few other things we're looking for.

No one is a sure thing, but there are some guys out there that are definitely a bad choice. I don't think Brennan is one of them.

Then what happen if we choose him and fails within 4 season at the helm?

Then we start over again. We keep doing it until we find the right guy.

cordera89 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:54 am

Then what happen if we choose him and fails within 4 season at the helm?

Then we fire him, wouldn't have to pay a $28374982374982374987234897238972348732 buyout, and try again. This isn't complicated. This is the type of level of guy Arizona football should always hire.

TheCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:34 am Brenan was 14-29 before this year. Really? This is the top guy. His 6-0 record this year could be the result of keeping his team healthy during COVID while other could not. I think this is a high risk hire but we are not exactly a sure thing destination. Not sure where to go.......

I've put out my concerns with him, but the flip side is that SJSU is a very difficult job. It's basically no better than 3rd best in the Bay Area, and they have minimal resources.

They were bad when he took over and he's turned that around. I've said I'd like more evidence the turnaround is for good, but succeeding at SJSU like he did is comparable to overcoming the challenges he'd see at Arizona.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:57 am

cordera89 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:54 am

Then what happen if we choose him and fails within 4 season at the helm?

Then we fire him, wouldn't have to pay a $28374982374982374987234897238972348732 buyout, and try again. This isn't complicated. This is the type of level of guy Arizona football should always hire.

Yep while I'm slightly skeptical and have no clue if Brennan is the "right" hire this is all we can do. And should do really.

Arizona is not a dead end job for someone on his way up. Smith left for USC, and Tomey was courted by Miami (FL), but the interest wasn't mutual. The difference between these two guys and a Sumlin or Mackovic is Smith and Tomey were on their way up when they landed in Tucson. Sumlin and Mack on their way down.

I have a colleague who has a son who plays at San Jose State, and both player and mother love Coach Brennan. Would hate to see him go, but says Brennan is building a winning culture at SJSU and the team will likely be even better next year. The kid actually wanted to go to Arizona, as he has family in Tucson, but Sumlin wouldn't give him the time of day, even as a preferred walk-on, as he was only rated 2-stars. He did have some D1 offers, including a school in the SEC, but committed to SJSU because of Brennan.

If we don't hire Brennan, we might live to regret it. It looks like they are poised to win close to 10 games next year, and if we don't hire him now, someone else will.

The only other coach mentioned other than Brennan we should look at is Hill from Weber State. He's another coach that has built a winning culture, and is coming up through the coaching ranks, not looking for a soft landing spot after getting fired.

cordera89 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:54 am

Chicat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:48 am

TheCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:34 am Brenan was 14-29 before this year. Really? This is the top guy. His 6-0 record this year could be the result of keeping his team healthy during COVID while other could not. I think this is a high risk hire but we are not exactly a sure thing destination. Not sure where to go.......

Brennan has a lot going for him that is not represented in his W/L record. He's certainly the type of guy we should be going after. Others like him might have better records but may not have a few other things we're looking for.

No one is a sure thing, but there are some guys out there that are definitely a bad choice. I don't think Brennan is one of them.

Then what happen if we choose him and fails within 4 season at the helm?

When you say "him" I think you mean "anyone" and the answer should be obvious, even to you, as many others pointed out.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:57 am

cordera89 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:54 am

Then what happen if we choose him and fails within 4 season at the helm?

Then we fire him, wouldn't have to pay a $28374982374982374987234897238972348732 buyout, and try again. This isn't complicated. This is the type of level of guy Arizona football should always hire.

That's sort of how I see it. If we're not convinced anyone else is a dynamite hire, which is sort of where I'm at, that sort of contract is fine.

An up and coming guy is always somewhat of a roll of the dice. Unless we're passing up someone notably better, I'm ok with rolling the dice.

I always did like Niumatalolo, Harsin is a dream and Hill is interesting in a similar way to Brennan, but for a guy of Brennan's profile, that's a solid deal for us.

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:08 amArizona is not a dead end job for someone on his way up. Smith left for USC, and Tomey was courted by Miami (FL), but the interest wasn't mutual. The difference between these two guys and a Sumlin or Mackovic is Smith and Tomey were on their way up when they landed in Tucson. Sumlin and Mack on their way down.

This. Always Always Always hire a coach whose career trajectory is on the upward scale. They will always work harder than the guys who have already reached their career peak and are taking that one last job and it's not even debatable. The very worst case scenario is the the guy simply doesn't work out and you try it again. The next worst case scenario is he succeeds and leaves for a better job, in which case you have a better foundation built and you hire another in a similar situation.

Arizona Football = Arizona State Basketball. Any retread hired at these schools wash out. Any up and comer either washes out or succeeds and moves on. That is our destiny and there's nothing wrong with it. Only in one case though do you see success.

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:08 am I have a colleague who has a son who plays at San Jose State, and both player and mother love Coach Brennan. Would hate to see him go, but says Brennan is building a winning culture at SJSU and the team will likely be even better next year. The kid actually wanted to go to Arizona, as he has family in Tucson, but Sumlin wouldn't give him the time of day, even as a preferred walk-on, as he was only rated 2-stars. He did have some D1 offers, including a school in the SEC, but committed to SJSU because of Brennan.

If we don't hire Brennan, we might live to regret it. It looks like they are poised to win close to 10 games next year, and if we don't hire him now, someone else will.

The only other coach mentioned other than Brennan we should look at is Hill from Weber State. He's another coach that has built a winning culture, and is coming up through the coaching ranks, not looking for a soft landing spot after getting fired.

Thanks for this. Great info.

Brennan has enough ties to the program to help 'check that box'.
He is cheap.
He has shown, very briefly, that he was able to build at SJSU to a successful (very anecdotal) season this year.

I was painfully wrong on Sumlin but I think Brennan or Hill should be the type of candidates we go for.

Here's a helpful hint on hiring:

Never a hire an employee who is currently making millions of dollars for getting fired.

They generally don't have much incentive to actually do a good job.

What say you Machina?