Bear Down Wildcats

legallykenny wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

legallykenny wrote: I didn't realize that our opponents' players do not also sit for finals.

The personnel on the floor is a product of the coach's recruiting. At this point it's pretty obvious that Miller is reliant on a recruiting one or two stars a year to cover his ass on the floor and give him the excuse of "inexperience" when he loses and the bench full of recruiting misses and transfer stiffs can't make up the shortcomings. It's getting really hard to watch the product this yields.

So stop watching.

Some programs don't recruit stars and don't compete the way we do. I'd say we're spoiled from Lute, but we've won about the same % of Pac championships as we did under Lute's tenure.

Fans have these weird standards with Miller, like it's unacceptable and hard to watch success that's about as good as anyone has ever produced here. Lute's win % was .755, Miller's is .751. Like I said, Pac conference wins are pretty consistent too.

If you don't like watching this, ok. I like watching success.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but to my untrained and jaundiced eye, the PAC was significantly better during the Lute years than the Miller years.

Feels like our dominance of the conference should be even more pronounced.

It sort of depends. Lute won a significant # of Pac titles 90-91 and before. At that point, UCLA was down and there wasn't really a clear second level contender.

I would argue that the mid 80's to 90-91, the Pac was at current level or even weaker. UCLA had a bit of a resurgence under Harrick after then.

The last 13 years of Lute's tenure was probably the peak of the Pac, with Stanford making FF runs and UCLA, Oregon and even UW cycling into being contenders. We won 4 of 13 conference titles those years.

....and went to the NC game in two of the years in which we didn't win the conference.

This is sort of what I mean about moving the goalposts to whatever metric says what you want it to. Miller obviously has not made a FF, but removing that, his resume is startlingly similar to Lute's.

As I posted earlier, we had two open J's to go to the Final Four in 10-11 and 13-14. If those drop, does Miller become something other than what he is right now?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

legallykenny wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
So stop watching.

Some programs don't recruit stars and don't compete the way we do. I'd say we're spoiled from Lute, but we've won about the same % of Pac championships as we did under Lute's tenure.

Fans have these weird standards with Miller, like it's unacceptable and hard to watch success that's about as good as anyone has ever produced here. Lute's win % was .755, Miller's is .751. Like I said, Pac conference wins are pretty consistent too.

If you don't like watching this, ok. I like watching success.

I don’t necessarily disagree, but to my untrained and jaundiced eye, the PAC was significantly better during the Lute years than the Miller years.

Feels like our dominance of the conference should be even more pronounced.

It sort of depends. Lute won a significant # of Pac titles 90-91 and before. At that point, UCLA was down and there wasn't really a clear second level contender.

I would argue that the mid 80's to 90-91, the Pac was at current level or even weaker. UCLA had a bit of a resurgence under Harrick after then.

The last 13 years of Lute's tenure was probably the peak of the Pac, with Stanford making FF runs and UCLA, Oregon and even UW cycling into being contenders. We won 4 of 13 conference titles those years.

....and went to the NC game in two of the years in which we didn't win the conference.

This is sort of what I mean about moving the goalposts to whatever metric says what you want it to. Miller obviously has not made a FF, but removing that, his resume is startlingly similar to Lute's.

As I posted earlier, we had two open J's to go to the Final Four in 10-11 and 13-14. If those drop, does Miller become something other than what he is right now?

That's not moving the goalposts, that's evidence of how fucking strong the PAC was in that era. Today the 5th place team in the PAC is in the NIT. In 1997 it was a 4th seed and national championship contender.

When's the last time you saw a PAC game played at the level of the Arizona-Stanford games from the 00-02 era?

Yes.

16-17 P12 tourney championship.

A lot of this conversation is premature. If Miller gets to the FF this season — unlikely but certainly possible — he’s suddenly at the benchmark many here are out of patience for him to reach. Just saying.

A lot of talk about bad luck with Miller. I want Miller to stick around and I still believe highly in this team, but at some point you make your own luck. To be so "unlucky" so many times it is not luck at that point

An informal poll: who on this board was around and following Arizona basketball from 80s through ‘96?

I ask this question because Arizona was loaded, LOADED, in ‘88. If Kerr doesn’t get hurt in France, he doesn’t redshirt and doesn’t play in ‘88. Arizona “underachieved “ in ‘89 by losing in the round of 16 as a 1 seed. Total flameout in ‘90, getting plunked by Alabama in the second round. After a modest Sweet 16 appearance in ‘91, Arizona was bounced consecutive years as a 3-seed and a 2-seed. Holy shit, can you imagine the vitriol if Miller had that happen?

Bottom line, Arizona is back in position to be relevant again. That took a significant hit the last two years because of the off court bullshit. Are we back yet? Not quite. But how can you expect to be fully back when you have three freshmen as your best players and the season is six weeks old?

This team has some dynamic talent. It’s not an overwhelming powerhouse. But it could easily make a run in March. If anything, losing to Gonzaga shows the players how close they are, how much work needs to be done. Beating Gonzaga may have been a little fools gold. You saw that with Michigan and Ohio State this week. I’d rather take some hits in December and have them continue to learn to be stronger in March.

Been around since 68 so seen it all. Comparing Miller to What Lute accomplished is apples to oranges. Lute had guys for 3 or 4 years. Miller turns over the bulk of his roster every year it seems.

College coaches have to be so much more today. Lute wouldn’t hardly recruit you if you wouldn’t give him at least two years.

In this iteration of what college basketball is, I like who we have. Gonzaga’s success is because they identify and developed those guys who are 2-4 year players. If there was a change in Miller I would love to see more emphasis on these kind of players but that is tough with our expectations

The FBI investigation is an unparalleled program challenge in NCAA basketball. Some of it is Miller's own doing in retaining Book, but it's not all Miller's fault. The media's treatment of us has made us radioactive for a while.

It just isn't a simple equation as to what success is today for Arizona basketball.

zonagrad wrote:An informal poll: who on this board was around and following Arizona basketball from 80s through ‘96?

I started as a freshman in 1981, so went through the Snowden -> Lindsey -> Lute transitions. Just awful times, could not give seats away.

Snowden was on the heat seat anyway, then his wife was caught shoplifting, which was the straw.

azcat49 wrote:Been around since 68 so seen it all. Comparing Miller to What Lute accomplished is apples to oranges. Lute had guys for 3 or 4 years. Miller turns over the bulk of his roster every year it seems.

I think Brian Williams (Bison Dele) was the first players Lute had to declare for the draft early. BDub was a transfer too. Even the greatest Sean Elliott stayed all 4 years.

Gonzaga only has one Mickey D on their roster as was noted during the game. Even Miller said after the game that when the Zags went small ball, and the Cats had to counter, Gonzaga had much more maturity to do it than the Cats did.

zonagrad wrote:An informal poll: who on this board was around and following Arizona basketball from 80s through ‘96?

I didn't start at UofA till '96, so I missed almost all of that span. I do remember watching AZ in the Final Four, though. They were heating up as a program. I remember hearing about Mike Bibby choosing AZ.

Like you, zg, I think this team can still do big things. Regardless of one's opinion about Miller, this roster's potential is undeniable. In Nico's worst game of the season (by far), we lost by 2 to the #2 team in the country. And it happened in mid-December. I gotta think these guys will be further along in their development by March. Nico is a legit star, but he's young and will have some growing pains. Green and Zeke have lived up to their high rankings, imo. Stone remains injured, and getting him back gives us another shooter and another big body on D.

I'm actually going to the game this Saturday vs. St. John's. Really excited to see them in person. I think we're going to bounce back nicely and get a nice neutral court win.

Well, I went to the first game at Mckale Center, so I guess I have been around awhile, and through the ups and downs and coaching changes.

Someone earlier in this thread said Miller will one day be a Hall of Fame coach, and I believe this to be true. So, unless something sours him on the UA or vice versa, I would hope he stays here until retirement. He WILL break through, and it will probably come at a time when we least expect it, much like our natty came unexpectedly.

BBQ wildcat wrote: He WILL break through, and it will probably come at a time when we least expect it, much like our natty came unexpectedly.

I agree. It's either going to happen for him here or at the next job he takes.

I agree, I believe he will break through whether here or elsewhere.

I will say this, I firmly believe Final Fours mean a lot to fans, but are a terrible marker of coaching skill.

Look at guys like Kevin Ollie, John Brady and Mike Davis. All those guys eventually were run out of town because they caught lightning in a bottle and then couldn't build a program. Frank Martin and Shaka Smart are recent FF guys who have dicey job prospects going forward.

Howland put UCLA in 3 straight FF's and then crashlanded into a firing. The list of coaches who make that run and can't replicate it is unusually long.

Went to my first game in '84, and was hooked for life. (Despite the tiny crowd.) McKale just felt like a cathedral to me, and I swear I heard angels singing when I walked through those doors. Worked concession during some of the high points in the 90's. Got in free, had to miss the first half, but got to watch the second half without paying. Wrote for CatTracks, back when it was still a print publication. Loved every second of it!!

I moved to Tucson in Summer of ‘71, so have followed through the Snowden, Olson and Miller years.

I had season tickets from’84 through ‘89, when I moved out-of-state...

The Snowden years were mostly great - the first home game against UCLA was a bucket list experience!

I sat at foul line in row 8 for half the Lindsey year - the ticket holder wouldn’t even bother to go to the games - worst coach I ever saw - any sport (And, he WAS considered to be an up-and- comer, a “good hire” at the time!)

I remember where I was when I heard Lute was hired - my buddy and I high-fived - ”we’re going to the Final Four!!!” (had to explain “final four” to his wife... )

It was a different game then. High school athletes played about 20 games a year for a high school coach. Player evaluation was much more difficult, I think. Players stayed for 4 years, with only very few exceptions. McMillan was the first McDonald’s AA to come to Arizona, I believe.

One thing that always stood out for Lute’s teams was that they were in top form from the beginning of the season. For the first several years of his tenure, the Pac-10 sucked. In fact, I think that was one of the draws for Lute to leave the Big-10 and come to Arizona....

AzWdCatFan wrote:Went to my first game in '84, and was hooked for life. (Despite the tiny crowd.) McKale just felt like a cathedral to me, and I swear I heard angels singing when I walked through those doors. Worked concession during some of the high points in the 90's. Got in free, had to miss the first half, but got to watch the second half without paying. Wrote for CatTracks, back when it was still a print publication. Loved every second of it!!

I hear ya on this. I went to old bear down gym under Larsen then saw the excitement Freddy brought with the kiddie corps. Was at the first game in McKale against Wyoming and was in awe of the crowd. We had the season tickets until I became a student and never missed a game including a NYE game vs Kansas.

Then I graduated and Lute cane and have had these seats since 83. Lots of great memories

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I will say this, I firmly believe Final Fours mean a lot to fans, but are a terrible marker of coaching skill.

Look at guys like Kevin Ollie, John Brady and Mike Davis. All those guys eventually were run out of town because they caught lightning in a bottle and then couldn't build a program. Frank Martin and Shaka Smart are recent FF guys who have dicey job prospects going forward.

Howland put UCLA in 3 straight FF's and then crashlanded into a firing. The list of coaches who make that run and can't replicate it is unusually long.

Since you brought it up, Howland at UCLA: 10 seasons (2003–2013), 233-107 (.685), 4 Pac reg season titles, 2 Pac tourney titles,
3 Final Fours

Miller at AZ: 10 completed seasons, 11th in progress (2009-present), 274-91 (.751), 5 Pac reg season titles, 3 Pac tourney titles,
0 Final Fours

Howland was the 2nd winningest coach in UCLA history, and they fucking fired him...after winning a Pac title, no less. I suspect that some UCLA folks wonder if that was the right move.

Miller is the 3rd winningest coach at AZ, only because Enke was coach for a quarter century. For those strongly in favor of firing Miller, take a hard look at UCLA post-Howland because that's probably not a bad example of how most programs do after firing a great coach.

It's nearly impossible to make two "good hires" back to back. So are we ready to roll those dice, or are we better off sticking with a guy who's probably better than 90% of the coaches out there?

Great posts everyone. Lots of perspective. When I was little, Coneil Norman was my favorite. Played against Sean Elliott in high school and have followed every season religiously since, working local TV sports for some of the best seasons (‘97-‘04).

I love Miller as our coach. He’s not perfect but neither was Lute. And Lord knows the basketball gods owe us after ‘05, ‘11, and ‘14 near misses.

Chicat wrote:I am in no way ready to call for Miller being fired. That’s ludicrous to me.

I am in every way ready for Miller to take this program to the next level. And I’ve seen no evidence that’s happening this year. That’s profoundly disappointing to me.

And you get that because he lost to a higher rank team and a top 20 team. You are starting 3 freshman and a guy NO ONE on this board thought should play a minute. You have Jeter who is serviceable at center. Great perspective......Miller should go to fans that are appreciative of his talents. We might get Kelvin Sampson if we are damn lucky.

Trust the process indefinitely, whatever. I just want to cut down some nets before Lute passes.

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote:
IMNSHO, if Miller left by any means other than his own choice (Exception - NCAA shame), U of A would not be able to immediately replace him with a comparable coach....

I'd take that bet.

And you will lose. Name 3 guys that would come here after you fire a guy with top 10 recruiting classes and multiple conference championships. It doesn't happen. You going after Ben Howland ....multiple final 4's? Kelvin Sampson??? Rick Barnes who I can't ever remember Arizona losing too. Tony Bennet?

TatetheGreat wrote:Trust the process indefinitely, whatever. I just want to cut down some nets before Lute passes.

We all want that....no more than Miller. That is what drives him to recruit the hell out of the country.

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote:
IMNSHO, if Miller left by any means other than his own choice (Exception - NCAA shame), U of A would not be able to immediately replace him with a comparable coach....

I'd take that bet.

Choo, you have more faith in Dave Heeke than most of us.

Ned Zissou wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote:
IMNSHO, if Miller left by any means other than his own choice (Exception - NCAA shame), U of A would not be able to immediately replace him with a comparable coach....

I'd take that bet.

Choo, you have more faith in Dave Heeke than most of us.

That's cause Choo's already said it would not be Heeke choosing the new coach

I just wish Miller would adapt his system to his players.
I firmly believe that the packline is pretty complex and it takes multiple seasons for players to get good at it. Most of Miller’s recruits aren't here that long.

Just to use DD as an example, Miller wanted him to work in Miller’s offense and therefore change how in played in HS. Perfectly valid. But I want Miller to be able to change some of his ways at times.

Postmaster wrote:I just wish Miller would adapt his system to his players.
I firmly believe that the packline is pretty complex and it takes multiple seasons for players to get good at it. Most of Miller’s recruits aren't here that long.

Just to use DD as an example, Miller wanted him to work in Miller’s offense and therefore change how in played in HS. Perfectly valid. But I want Miller to be able to change some of his ways at times.

I think you tailor your style to the players you have. Arizona has a pretty athletic team (unlike the Ristic/PJC years) and can and should play pressure defense to force turnovers. The pack line is useful when you don't have the athleticism. But Josh Green, Zeke Nnaji, Nico Mannion & Dylan Smith are very athletic. Depending on your opponent -- trapping and pressing should always be on the menu this season and not just when Arizona is down ten points and needs a furious comeback. Pressing and trapping can also help kickstart inefficient offense as it gets you into transition.

zonagrad wrote:

Postmaster wrote:I just wish Miller would adapt his system to his players.
I firmly believe that the packline is pretty complex and it takes multiple seasons for players to get good at it. Most of Miller’s recruits aren't here that long.

Just to use DD as an example, Miller wanted him to work in Miller’s offense and therefore change how in played in HS. Perfectly valid. But I want Miller to be able to change some of his ways at times.

I think you tailor your style to the players you have. Arizona has a pretty athletic team (unlike the Ristic/PJC years) and can and should play pressure defense to force turnovers. The pack line is useful when you don't have the athleticism. But Josh Green, Zeke Nnaji, Nico Mannion & Dylan Smith are very athletic. Depending on your opponent -- trapping and pressing should always be on the menu this season and not just when Arizona is down ten points and needs a furious comeback. Pressing and trapping can also help kickstart inefficient offense as it gets you into transition.

I wish that trapping and pressing was back on the menu, boys:

zonagrad wrote:

Postmaster wrote:I just wish Miller would adapt his system to his players.
I firmly believe that the packline is pretty complex and it takes multiple seasons for players to get good at it. Most of Miller’s recruits aren't here that long.

Just to use DD as an example, Miller wanted him to work in Miller’s offense and therefore change how in played in HS. Perfectly valid. But I want Miller to be able to change some of his ways at times.

I think you tailor your style to the players you have. Arizona has a pretty athletic team (unlike the Ristic/PJC years) and can and should play pressure defense to force turnovers. The pack line is useful when you don't have the athleticism. But Josh Green, Zeke Nnaji, Nico Mannion & Dylan Smith are very athletic. Depending on your opponent -- trapping and pressing should always be on the menu this season and not just when Arizona is down ten points and needs a furious comeback. Pressing and trapping can also help kickstart inefficient offense as it gets you into transition.

Especially having a deep bench of athletic guards to press. Used to really like watching Nolan Richardson's 40 minutes of hell defense (and offense) at Arkansas. Never let up.

I am concerned the miller wear-down of the players has already begun . When was the last time anybody on this team looked like they were having fun playing basketball ? Maybe Ira Lee?

Nico-Even keel
Green-businesslike
Baker-stoic
Nnaji- serious/angry
Smith-focused
Hazzard- intense
Jeter-weird fucking shorts guy

RiseAndFire wrote:I am concerned the miller wear-down of the players has already begun . When was the last time anybody on this team looked like they were having fun playing basketball ? Maybe Ira Lee?

Nico-Even keel
Green-businesslike
Baker-stoic
Nnaji- serious/angry
Smith-focused
Hazzard- intense
Jeter-weird fucking shorts guy

RiseAndFire-spanking the monkey in Momma's bath robe.

Postmaster wrote:I just wish Miller would adapt his system to his players.

zonagrad wrote:
I think you tailor your style to the players you have.

But then he couldn't continue his mantra of do what we do

zonagrad wrote:trapping and pressing should always be on the menu this season and not just when Arizona is down ten points and needs a furious comeback.

Don't forget that you can also only use trapping and pressing if there's not enough time on the clock for it to usually matter.

RiseAndFire wrote:I am concerned the miller wear-down of the players has already begun . When was the last time anybody on this team looked like they were having fun playing basketball ? Maybe Ira Lee?

Nico-Even keel
Green-businesslike
Baker-stoic
Nnaji- serious/angry
Smith-focused
Hazzard- intense
Jeter-weird fucking shorts guy

This is quite possibly the weakest post ever -- and that's impressive since you post weak shit.

RiseAndFire wrote:I am concerned the miller wear-down of the players has already begun . When was the last time anybody on this team looked like they were having fun playing basketball ? Maybe Ira Lee?

Nico-Even keel
Green-businesslike
Baker-stoic
Nnaji- serious/angry
Smith-focused
Hazzard- intense
Jeter-weird fucking shorts guy

I actually think this looks like the most involved and happiest team I've seen in a bit. Against Gonzaga, you could see a bit of energy lapse, but when you can't make a shot, that can happen.

Like Lute, Miller has had some great assistants but unlike Lute, he didn’t have a Roz for the major tenure of his career. Just wonder this impact. Guys like Archie, Pasternack, Whitfield have all done pretty well at their gigs and brought a lot to our program

azcat49 wrote:Like Lute, Miller has had some great assistants but unlike Lute, he didn’t have a Roz for the major tenure of his career. Just wonder this impact. Guys like Archie, Pasternack, Whitfield have all done pretty well at their gigs and brought a lot to our program

Miller had that in Mark Phelps. Dave Heeke is a fucking moron.

ChooChooCat wrote:

azcat49 wrote:Like Lute, Miller has had some great assistants but unlike Lute, he didn’t have a Roz for the major tenure of his career. Just wonder this impact. Guys like Archie, Pasternack, Whitfield have all done pretty well at their gigs and brought a lot to our program

Miller had that in Mark Phelps. Dave Heeke is a fucking moron.

this

Here you go my doubting Thomas's https://sports.yahoo.com/college-basket ... 55978.html" target="_blank

TheCat wrote:Here you go my doubting Thomas's https://sports.yahoo.com/college-basket ... 55978.html" target="_blank

And the top 2 coaches on that list endured the exact same doubts about their future success vs ceiling that people have about Sean

Dear Coach Miller,

You’re blowing it.

This was supposed to be the year we forgot about the scandals and early exits. This was supposed to be the season we focused on the on-court success, not the off-court distractions.

If your team can’t beat any halfway decent competition and looks like it won’t make any postseason noise, what the hell else are we going to talk about?

You. Are. Blowing. It.

Sincerely,

Chicat

First round exit with the best player in the nation last season.

This season, another likely first round exit with 3 players who are probably first round picks.

What the heck is going on? We were all talking Final 4 with this group of players.

I've been as solid as anyone in the Sean Miller camp.

But this is not good.

Again we are loaded with talent and it's not translating to big wins.

Merkin wrote:First round exit with the best player in the nation last season.

That was two seasons ago Merk. Good job on completely erasing last season from your memory. Wish I could.

Lot of boosters were at that game. Curious what they thought.

Alieberman wrote:I've been as solid as anyone in the Sean Miller camp.

But this is not good.

Again we are loaded with talent and it's not translating to big wins.

We are loaded with highly-rated recruits whose talent will eventually emerge in the NBA - they are raw, inexperienced former-AAU players who haven't been accountable to real coaching and teamwork before...

... BIG difference!!!

Chicat wrote:Dear Coach Miller,

You’re blowing it.

This was supposed to be the year we forgot about the scandals and early exits. This was supposed to be the season we focused on the on-court success, not the off-court distractions.

If your team can’t beat any halfway decent competition and looks like it won’t make any postseason noise, what the hell else are we going to talk about?

You. Are. Blowing. It.

Sincerely,

Chicat

Chicat, this is how I feel too.

UAEebs86 wrote:

Merkin wrote:First round exit with the best player in the nation last season.

That was two seasons ago Merk. Good job on completely erasing last season from your memory. Wish I could.

Oh shit, that's right. When Jeter was our best player but injury prone, Akot quit on the team, and Brandon Williams reinjured his knee.

Merkin wrote:First round exit with the best player in the nation last season.

This season, another likely first round exit with 3 players who are probably first round picks.

What the heck is going on? We were all talking Final 4 with this group of players.

I'm not sure if I agree with this assessment. Expecting a Final Four with three freshmen is a tall order, especially considering that Few, Coach K, and Calipari couldn't make it last year with even better talent. The Ayton year was frustrating in that we had a lot of good pieces, but not great chemistry. We also had a lot of holes: subpar defense, lack of quality point guard play and unfair seeding. It would have taken a perfect seeding for us to even make the second weekend. All those things get thrown out the window when we discuss that year, because everyone is so primed to criticize Miller. Btw, before the extracurricular legal stuff, fans still had outrageous demands about Miller, complaining about stuff like 'Why aren't we blowing out more teams?'

For a rebound year, I think the second weekend is not out of the question, our ceiling is high enough. We are also not the only blue blood with five star talent that has underperformed in must win games.

To be fair, the Gonzaga game really hurt; to me that was our Ohio State/Michigan type game. I still believe that once Stone returns things should begin to turn around, but fans should temper their expectations a bit.

It’s hard to argue with Chicat’s post. However Miller prepares his team, they’ve played similarly awful against three opponents in December.

One clear move he made was to bench Smith. Conversely, think it’s clear he’s letting Mannion and Green play through their mistakes and letting them learn through experience instead of tightening their leashes. That’s something I’ll be watching into the next couple of months. There’s other things that went wrong last night and previously, but Arizona wins all those games if its three freshmen don’t play like freshmen. So far, only Nnaji is where we need him to be, and maybe he is because he played through the challenges he of being a focus of opposing defenses.

RawleArenas wrote:

Merkin wrote:First round exit with the best player in the nation last season.

This season, another likely first round exit with 3 players who are probably first round picks.

What the heck is going on? We were all talking Final 4 with this group of players.

I'm not sure if I agree with this assessment. Expecting a Final Four with three freshmen is a tall order, especially considering that Few, Coach K, and Calipari couldn't make it last year with even better talent. The Ayton year was frustrating in that we had a lot of good pieces, but not great chemistry. We also had a lot of holes: subpar defense, lack of quality point guard play and unfair seeding. It would have taken a perfect seeding for us to even make the second weekend. All those things get thrown out the window when we discuss that year, because everyone is so primed to criticize Miller. Btw, before the extracurricular legal stuff, fans still had outrageous demands about Miller, complaining about stuff like 'Why aren't we blowing out more teams?'

For a rebound year, I think the second weekend is not out of the question, our ceiling is high enough. We are also not the only blue blood with five star talent that has underperformed in must win games.

To be fair, the Gonzaga game really hurt; to me that was our Ohio State/Michigan type game. I still believe that once Stone returns things should begin to turn around, but fans should temper their expectations a bit.

Gonzaga stepped on our throats on our home court and confirmed being the king of the west. Yeah, yeah it was four points at the end. So what? Gonzaga owned us; plain and simple. Gettings return will be negligible at best. I agree tempering our expectations is important. We are NOT a blue blood. Zero Final Fours in 20 years hardly puts us in that category. I feel the program has been in steady decline since the second Wisconsin loss. Once the NCAA hands down their punishment I'm anticipating probation, loss of scholarships, and possibly a parting of ways with Miller. I just don't see things improving going forward. Systemic changes are of the utmost necessity and Miller will never adjust his strategic approach to the game. For now we will continue to see the same thing year after year; doing less with more. It's getting harder and harder to tolerate.