Bear Down Wildcats

520in480 wrote:I have been reading the posts in this forum for years. Love the insight and intelligent debate (most of the time). I have never felt compelled to participate, until today.

I have been both depressed and fascinated by this scandal. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that ASU hired an Adidas guy as an assistant basketball coach recently. This jogged some memories and after just a couple of minutes, I found the following information about ASU, Adidas, and top 2020 recruit, Kyree Walker. These are just dots. I don't know if they connect or not. But given what's been shared on this board regarding the nature of recruiting and the influence shoe companies have in the recruiting process, this seems to fit the script.

July 2015 – ASU officially switches from Nike to Adidas

May 2016 – ASU basketball hires Adidas marketing rep, Anthony Coleman, as an assistant coach. From HouseOfSparky.com, "Coleman will play a critical role in recruiting as his Adidas ties will allow ASU to tap into that portion of the AAU circuit."

April 2017 – Adidas and ASU create international sports center, creating a new faculty position in the process. From BizJournal.com, "Kenneth L. Shropshire, director of the Wharton Sports Business Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania, will become the first Adidas Distinguished Professor of Global Sport at ASU, a brand-new position at the university. Adidas contributed to the position at an undisclosed cost."

June 30, 2017 – Kyree Walker commits to ASU … Announced that Kyree will be attending Hillcrest Prep and his father will be coaching there.

July 2017 – Kyree Walker leaves Nike-sponsored Oakland Soldiers for Adidas-sponsored Dream Vision

Sep. 2017 – Hillcrest Prep announces a partnership with Adidas

Just thought I would share because I was stunned at how easy I found this after I knew what to look for based on the info that's been shared on this site.

CatFanOneMil wrote:

520in480 wrote:I have been reading the posts in this forum for years. Love the insight and intelligent debate (most of the time). I have never felt compelled to participate, until today.

I have been both depressed and fascinated by this scandal. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that ASU hired an Adidas guy as an assistant basketball coach recently. This jogged some memories and after just a couple of minutes, I found the following information about ASU, Adidas, and top 2020 recruit, Kyree Walker. These are just dots. I don't know if they connect or not. But given what's been shared on this board regarding the nature of recruiting and the influence shoe companies have in the recruiting process, this seems to fit the script.

July 2015 – ASU officially switches from Nike to Adidas

May 2016 – ASU basketball hires Adidas marketing rep, Anthony Coleman, as an assistant coach. From HouseOfSparky.com, "Coleman will play a critical role in recruiting as his Adidas ties will allow ASU to tap into that portion of the AAU circuit."

April 2017 – Adidas and ASU create international sports center, creating a new faculty position in the process. From BizJournal.com, "Kenneth L. Shropshire, director of the Wharton Sports Business Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania, will become the first Adidas Distinguished Professor of Global Sport at ASU, a brand-new position at the university. Adidas contributed to the position at an undisclosed cost."

June 30, 2017 – Kyree Walker commits to ASU … Announced that Kyree will be attending Hillcrest Prep and his father will be coaching there.

July 2017 – Kyree Walker leaves Nike-sponsored Oakland Soldiers for Adidas-sponsored Dream Vision

Sep. 2017 – Hillcrest Prep announces a partnership with Adidas

Just thought I would share because I was stunned at how easy I found this after I knew what to look for based on the info that's been shared on this site.

And which of these things violates federal law or NCAA rules?

I get that it's easy to research and find stuff...but man...as much as I hate ASu none of this is illegal at ALL...

YoDeFoe wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:Some are suggesting this has been going on since the days of Wooden...I'm saying there is no way, not on the level people are suggesting...there is no evidence for that...someone give me proof of college players being paid to play for the last 20 years...if its as rampant as is being sold there would proof...

I get that there are always a few bad eggs exploiting young dumb players and poverty stricken families, but that has been going on since Rome built the colosseum...its one thing to suggest this happens because of human nature in a few, its another to say it is systemic.

If Lute Olson was asking Sonny Vaccaro for a shoe contract 35 years ago, it's systemic.

It's called incentivizing. For both coaches and players. If that was removed entirely, not even Vegas would run a line on the games anymore.

OneMil... google "Sam Gilbert."

The paper quoted Brent Clark, an NCAA field investigator who said that, in 1977, he was told to drop his case in Westwood. "If I had spent a month in Los Angeles, I could have put them on indefinite suspension," he said of UCLA. An NCAA spokesman disputed this claim, saying that Clark was living a "fantasy world."

CatFanOneMil wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:
You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.

Scouts are saying they knew about this. Pundits are saying they'd always heard this was happening. Coaches are on TV saying 100 programs have a guy like Book. And yes, people on anonymous message boards are saying it too.

The structure and the size have changed many times over the years, I'm sure. But the "we'll take care of you" part of recruiting big recruits seems painfully obvious now that the veil has been so publicly pierced and the "in-the-knows" have sighed instead of screamed.

Scouts are PAID to look like they know stuff they can only guess...their jobs depend on this illusion...
Pundits ALWAYS say they knew, their job is spin...and spin is a product.
One coach said this not "coaches" plural...there are at least 300 coaches...one does not make a major voice...
Anonymous people say ALL KINDS of things on online forums...

Data...please.

Cold hard data.

I am a computer programer, I deal in logic and there is no room for innuendo...its not hard.

Make factual statements with proof...all any of us have so far is an FBI investigation and a bunch of hand wringing...even the FBI stuff is not actually "facts" yet, it is people on tapes SAYING things, that could or could not be true...true false statements have no room for play in my world a fact is either true or it is not a fact yet.

I am not saying this is not possible, anything is possible, but so far everything is inflated and conflated to be things other than facts.

The facts do not support it being systemic , YET.

CatFanOneMil wrote:

520in480 wrote:I have been reading the posts in this forum for years. Love the insight and intelligent debate (most of the time). I have never felt compelled to participate, until today.

I have been both depressed and fascinated by this scandal. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that ASU hired an Adidas guy as an assistant basketball coach recently. This jogged some memories and after just a couple of minutes, I found the following information about ASU, Adidas, and top 2020 recruit, Kyree Walker. These are just dots. I don't know if they connect or not. But given what's been shared on this board regarding the nature of recruiting and the influence shoe companies have in the recruiting process, this seems to fit the script.

July 2015 – ASU officially switches from Nike to Adidas

May 2016 – ASU basketball hires Adidas marketing rep, Anthony Coleman, as an assistant coach. From HouseOfSparky.com, "Coleman will play a critical role in recruiting as his Adidas ties will allow ASU to tap into that portion of the AAU circuit."

April 2017 – Adidas and ASU create international sports center, creating a new faculty position in the process. From BizJournal.com, "Kenneth L. Shropshire, director of the Wharton Sports Business Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania, will become the first Adidas Distinguished Professor of Global Sport at ASU, a brand-new position at the university. Adidas contributed to the position at an undisclosed cost."

June 30, 2017 – Kyree Walker commits to ASU … Announced that Kyree will be attending Hillcrest Prep and his father will be coaching there.

July 2017 – Kyree Walker leaves Nike-sponsored Oakland Soldiers for Adidas-sponsored Dream Vision

Sep. 2017 – Hillcrest Prep announces a partnership with Adidas

Just thought I would share because I was stunned at how easy I found this after I knew what to look for based on the info that's been shared on this site.

And which of these things violates federal law or NCAA rules?

I get that it's easy to research and find stuff...but man...as much as I hate ASu none of this is illegal at ALL...

Olsondogg wrote:Because it’s coming...

midnightx wrote:It is official: Pitino is out.

This is going to get ugly. And not just for Arizona (don't be surprised if the 2018 recruiting class disappears from decommits), but a number of the individuals and entities that are being indicted by the DOJ could conceivably try to make deals, and expose much greater and wider corruption. If five star recruits are receiving money and it is a widespread throughout college basketball's major programs, don't be surprised if other major programs are exposed down the road.

97cats wrote:should I crack a beer? start an "I'm in the mood..." thread

just like the good ol days!!!

cpt wrote:Friend who has insider info says Miller is out and Romar is in. Not sure how reliable it is but we have a mutual friend who is very tight with Romar.

gumby wrote:I don't ever recall a person staying silent who was innocent. The program is getting hammered, mocked and abused. Will be forever know as #apayersprogram. (That slogan is a victim, for sure).

Miller needs to say something. Saying nothing looks like calculation. Like he's wondering who knows what and who might flip and who might be loyal and on and on. Like he's weighing his options.

That's what it looks like. If he wants to change that, he needs to act.

Jwsisliving wrote:

cpt wrote:Friend who has insider info says Miller is out and Romar is in. Not sure how reliable it is but we have a mutual friend who is very tight with Romar.

You're friend is full of crap but thanks for the contribution.

Bosy Billups wrote:

gumby wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:

97cats wrote:every top 50 program for the last 25 years has paid for the vast majority of their top players.

the top, top programs pay for a much higher percentage due to the fact that they get a higher percentage of top players -- its been a know practice and somewhat accepted for as long as i can remember, and yes, Arizona is right there with the best of them.

the programs with the pedigree, resources, and willingness to "do what it takes" have had the clear advantage in landing the top stars.

where this falls on Adidas is that they have long been cornered with direct benefits to the teams they sponsor, whereas other programs like Arizona have had a deft process and tight secrecy.

Book exposed Arizona thru a channel it has never used, Adidas, for his own personal greed and gain -- not to mention 5k...and therein lies where all Arizona fans should be infuriated, fucking Book Richardson did this for 5k, 5 fucking k, and did so by going outside of the model that was so effective and un-penetrable up to this point.

so, its not about if the teams cheat, its how they cheat, and Arizona did it as good or better than anyone.

and one last thing, how do you guys think i know all the inside information i know? is it because you think i talk to Sean Miller everyday? or that Greg Byrne and Jim Livengood used to call me and tell me that Stanley Johnson was going to commit, or Aaron Gordon was coming to Arizona or that Chase Budinger was going to stay for his Jr year or that Sean Miller met with our main booster in Santa Fe or that John Calipari convinced Miller to come to AZ?

no, its because the web of involvement of people not directly affiliated with the program are intertwined in the mix, they are the ones who pull the strings and cover the man holes, and its like that at every school that handles their business effectively at this level.

its the darkest kept secret of of a 1000 or so people around the country at various universities who are not employees or staff members who are vital to the culture of college basketball today, and that culture is a culture of greed and billions and billions of dollars on the line.... from CBS and FOX to ESPN and Adidas and NIKE and Under Armor and Foot Locker and McDonalds and on and on and on.....

So this is exactly like the steroids in baseball. You either take them and compete, or not take them and lose. This may be too big to fail. Perhaps Patino will become the Barry Bonds, I just hope we aren't the Sammy Sosa.

Still feel great about Lance Armstrong. Gotta do what ya gotta do!

#livestrong!

I don't think taking supplements is cheating. Nor is getting Tommy John surgery, or using anesthesia to dull the pain to go through the Tommy John surgery. It's a stupid rule and medical technology, including supplements, should be legal and/or doctor supervised at the least. So, yeah, Lance Armstrong did an amazing thing.

Same with paying player's families who live in the ghettos, while the NCAA and schools make filthy lucre off them. Unfortunately the ban created the black market with seedy characters, much like the alcohol and weed prohibitions. Face!

CatFanOneMil wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:
You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.

Scouts are saying they knew about this. Pundits are saying they'd always heard this was happening. Coaches are on TV saying 100 programs have a guy like Book. And yes, people on anonymous message boards are saying it too.

The structure and the size have changed many times over the years, I'm sure. But the "we'll take care of you" part of recruiting big recruits seems painfully obvious now that the veil has been so publicly pierced and the "in-the-knows" have sighed instead of screamed.

The desire to want Arizona to somehow be innocent of the reality every other college basketball program competes in truly puzzles me.

Good God, where in the hell do people think Lute got his new cars he parked at McKale? How in the world did Sean Elliott and Chris Mills afford their cars to drive around Tucson in?

Oh, their parents just took out a loan? Give me a Nell Carter-sized break.

Why does an employee of the state have to be part of systemic corruption to drive a new car?

My daughter LEASES a new Mercedes and she's a district Attorney in Cali, should we assume she's on the take to the mob? What kind of inflated nonsense is that?

I have no idea how any players afford anything but I don't just jump to the conclusion that they got what they have by illegal activity, thats just cynicism on PED's..

I drove a new car when I went to college because I was a given a student loan and had good credit, I had no special ability OR illegal opportunity to drive one...

These arguments are nonsense.

HiCat wrote:Adidas rep said Arizona offered top recruit $150,000, according to another fed complaint

Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star Sep 28, 2017 Updated 3 hrs ago

While local focus largely has been on the federal charges involving Book Richardson, the other prong of the FBI's investigation into college basketball revealed a reference that Arizona may have offered five-star Florida forward Nassir Little $150,000.

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... a359e.html" target="_blank

phxcat23 wrote:

HiCat wrote:Adidas rep said Arizona offered top recruit $150,000, according to another fed complaint

Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star Sep 28, 2017 Updated 3 hrs ago

While local focus largely has been on the federal charges involving Book Richardson, the other prong of the FBI's investigation into college basketball revealed a reference that Arizona may have offered five-star Florida forward Nassir Little $150,000.

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... a359e.html" target="_blank

That's my main question, is that Book went off on his own. But we already had our method of trying to get recruits to go to Arizona. So now that Book got caught doing his side stuff, and with reports that we were in the running for some of these recruits, that exposes that we were still doing something to try to sway recruits.

CalStateTempe wrote:I'm waiting for today's bloodletting like a child on Christmas morning.

My lack of productivity this week has surpassed first weekend of tourny status.

Olsondogg wrote:The SEC (conference) just cancelled its coaches meeting scheduled for today...

SCCats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:The SEC (conference) just cancelled its coaches meeting scheduled for today...

Also I wonder if we're going to see some (or most, or all) of those high profile older coaches that we've been wondering about when they were going to retire (K, Roy, Boeheim, etc) all bow out this year.

520in480 wrote:I have been reading the posts in this forum for years. Love the insight and intelligent debate (most of the time). I have never felt compelled to participate, until today.

I have been both depressed and fascinated by this scandal. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that ASU hired an Adidas guy as an assistant basketball coach recently. This jogged some memories and after just a couple of minutes, I found the following information about ASU, Adidas, and top 2020 recruit, Kyree Walker. These are just dots. I don't know if they connect or not. But given what's been shared on this board regarding the nature of recruiting and the influence shoe companies have in the recruiting process, this seems to fit the script.

July 2015 – ASU officially switches from Nike to Adidas

May 2016 – ASU basketball hires Adidas marketing rep, Anthony Coleman, as an assistant coach. From HouseOfSparky.com, "Coleman will play a critical role in recruiting as his Adidas ties will allow ASU to tap into that portion of the AAU circuit."

April 2017 – Adidas and ASU create international sports center, creating a new faculty position in the process. From BizJournal.com, "Kenneth L. Shropshire, director of the Wharton Sports Business Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania, will become the first Adidas Distinguished Professor of Global Sport at ASU, a brand-new position at the university. Adidas contributed to the position at an undisclosed cost."

June 30, 2017 – Kyree Walker commits to ASU … Announced that Kyree will be attending Hillcrest Prep and his father will be coaching there.

July 2017 – Kyree Walker leaves Nike-sponsored Oakland Soldiers for Adidas-sponsored Dream Vision

Sep. 2017 – Hillcrest Prep announces a partnership with Adidas

Just thought I would share because I was stunned at how easy I found this after I knew what to look for based on the info that's been shared on this site.

Longhorned wrote:Why are people expecting revelations today?

Longhorned wrote:Why are people expecting revelations today?

dmjcat wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Why are people expecting revelations today?

Because a majority of the posters are still in the denial stage. We have a lot of folks clinging to the "Everyone else does it so we won't get punished fantasy"

The 5 stages of grief.

1. Denial and isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance.

Olsondogg wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Why are people expecting revelations today?

Because a majority of the posters are still in the denial stage. We have a lot of folks clinging to the "Everyone else does it so we won't get punished fantasy"

The 5 stages of grief.

1. Denial and isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance.

Such an idiot

BE4RDOWN21 wrote:If anyone thinks that this ends well for Miller, you are naive. Let's just accept the fact that we will be renting Romar for the season and then we'll make way for the Pastner era to begin.

dmjcat wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Why are people expecting revelations today?

Because a majority of the posters are still in the denial stage. We have a lot of folks clinging to the "Everyone else does it so we won't get punished fantasy"

The 5 stages of grief.

1. Denial and isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance.

CatFanOneMil wrote:I completely agree the system is broken, hell the entire college system is becoming useless except for research, going to college to get a degree so you can join the "Job consumers" is in Pink Floyd's words just another brick in the wall...

What we do have is systemic poverty, systemic lower education opportunity for minorities, I have absolutely no problem with kids smoking pot, it should be legal six ways to Sunday, we are living in the moral collapse of an older empire an I for one think these college athletes should be highly compensated as well as the scientist kids and the drama kids and the swimming kids and well, this is our future, how well we treat it determines how far we go as a culture...to insubordinate it to a bunch of old rules that are leftovers of a bygone era is just stupid...their families should be compensated...their lives should be made easier...but I think that should apply to everyone...I am for universal basic income...ending the war on drugs (we lost) ending the industrial prison complex and the military money machine...but frankly those days are much further down the road than my lifetime...but I think we get there...eventually...I believe in the basic goodness of humanity as a WHOLE...yes there are some bad folks but mostly we are decent.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

Longhorned wrote:Why are people expecting revelations today?

Because a majority of the posters are still in the denial stage. We have a lot of folks clinging to the "Everyone else does it so we won't get punished fantasy"

The 5 stages of grief.

1. Denial and isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance.

Dude, we're getting punished. Everyone knows that. The positivity deals with the fact it may not be program crippling punishment.

I don't think anyone honestly thinks that nothing is coming, just hopes that what is coming is something that does not send us into ASU territory.