Bear Down Wildcats

TheCat wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:57 pm Fuck off Choo you loser and bring us some outdated recruiting information that you stole from other sites. That is your only value.

Merkin wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:35 pm

pc in NM wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:13 am

Merkin wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:35 pm

Marquette only had the ball because of a typical CSM play - Xavier had the ballx with no shot clock left - their guard dribbled too long, went into the corner, was trapped and turned it over.

Dribble, dribble, dribble.... self-inflicted loss

CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:38 am

pc in NM wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:13 am

Merkin wrote: Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:35 pm

Marquette only had the ball because of a typical CSM play - Xavier had the ballx with no shot clock left - their guard dribbled too long, went into the corner, was trapped and turned it over.

Dribble, dribble, dribble.... self-inflicted loss

Was Coach supposed to run out on the court and prevent him from being trapped? Or are you thinking that was what he drew up in the huddle?

Hilarious.

Also, where are all the exclamation points and crazy huge writing in red in your post? Hard to pay attention without those.

Sean Miller’s second run at Xavier is dramatically different for one reason
----
Freed of his coaching tunnel vision, Miller saw the bigger picture of college basketball, where it was going and more importantly, where he wanted to go if he got back in.

The result is this: Xavier is the sixth-leading scoring team in the nation, averaging 82.1 points per game, and boasts the seventh most efficient offense according to Ken Pomeroy. The Musketeers rank in the 95th percentile in pace, 92nd in field goals attempted per game, and stand behind only Marquette in Big East offensive firepower.
----
... On April 7, 2021, when he was fired by Arizona, Miller went back to the basketball classroom. Along with watching games with Archie, he watched what Tommy Lloyd did with mostly the same roster at Arizona, saw how the Few disciple flipped the switch and made the Wildcats one of the best offensive teams in the nation. He’d exchange ideas with Archie, chat about European ball, and scratch notes feverishly on a legal pad, plotting a renaissance for a team that he didn’t yet have.
----
But standing at 23-8 with nearly double the Big East wins the Musketeers had last year, Miller is not about to part with his experiment anytime soon. “It’s like a merry-go-round and sometimes you don’t realize that you just keep going in a circle,’’ Miller says. You never take time to understand and appreciate the game of basketball. That year away, it allowed me to form a future in my mind and see things differently. I don’t plan on changing.’’

CalStateTempe wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:36 am Not a Miller fan boy, but he does have his teams built for March.

Too bad he got in bed with Book and found offense after UofA.

CalStateTempe wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:36 am Not a Miller fan boy, but he does have his teams built for March.

Too bad he got in bed with Book and found offense after UofA.

Merkin wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:18 pm Not a Miller fan, but Robbins and Heeke handled the Miller about as bad as humanely possible. Along with the self imposed ban.

Fuck them. I imagine the players who missed out from NCAAs say that too.

Merkin wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:07 pm A couple of reasons, one is his Bobby Knight treatment of players. Don't even recall Bobby swearing at players like Miller did, and we know for sure Lute never did. Lute never said "GET THE F*** OF THE COURT" like Miller did on national TV.

Also his unwillingness to change his offensive and defensive schemes based on the makeup of his players. I really hated watching the best big man in the nation Ayton trying to defend guards trying to shoot 3 point shots. To bring up Lute again, look at the Tucson Skyline and how he completely got away from 3 bigs on the floor at the same time.

He also tried to look at player ratings and not what is a good fit for Arizona. He offer sheet is legendary in how long it was. He also looked at ratings, and not so much at evaluating players. For example Jaime Jaquez did not get an UA offer, yet his mother played HS ball at Sabino.

His dealings with Book were also a little suspect. Once he caught Book feeding Ace information at PGU he suspended him, when he should have been fired. Not accusing Miller of anything nefarious, but a head coach is responsible for the whole program and why he was fired.

I don't dislike Miller, and truly wish him nothing but the best, but glad we have Tommy Lloyd now.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I really liked Bobby Knight, but it was a generational thing how coaches treated players. Also that Lute allowed Kevin O'Neill to verbally harass the players constantly. My dad used to go to the practices when they were open, and could not believe the words out of KO's mouth, including the N word.

Merkin wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:07 pm A couple of reasons, one is his Bobby Knight treatment of players. Don't even recall Bobby swearing at players like Miller did, and we know for sure Lute never did. Lute never said "GET THE F*** OF THE COURT" like Miller did on national TV.

Also his unwillingness to change his offensive and defensive schemes based on the makeup of his players. I really hated watching the best big man in the nation Ayton trying to defend guards trying to shoot 3 point shots. To bring up Lute again, look at the Tucson Skyline and how he completely got away from 3 bigs on the floor at the same time.

He also tried to look at player ratings and not what is a good fit for Arizona. He offer sheet is legendary in how long it was. He also looked at ratings, and not so much at evaluating players. For example Jaime Jaquez did not get an UA offer, yet his mother played HS ball at Sabino.

His dealings with Book were also a little suspect. Once he caught Book feeding Ace information at PGU he suspended him, when he should have been fired. Not accusing Miller of anything nefarious, but a head coach is responsible for the whole program and why he was fired.

I don't dislike Miller, and truly wish him nothing but the best, but glad we have Tommy Lloyd now.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I really liked Bobby Knight, but it was a generational thing how coaches treated players. Also that Lute allowed Kevin O'Neill to verbally harass the players constantly. My dad used to go to the practices when they were open, and could not believe the words out of KO's mouth, including the N word.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:34 am

Merkin wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:07 pm A couple of reasons, one is his Bobby Knight treatment of players. Don't even recall Bobby swearing at players like Miller did, and we know for sure Lute never did. Lute never said "GET THE F*** OF THE COURT" like Miller did on national TV.

Also his unwillingness to change his offensive and defensive schemes based on the makeup of his players. I really hated watching the best big man in the nation Ayton trying to defend guards trying to shoot 3 point shots. To bring up Lute again, look at the Tucson Skyline and how he completely got away from 3 bigs on the floor at the same time.

He also tried to look at player ratings and not what is a good fit for Arizona. He offer sheet is legendary in how long it was. He also looked at ratings, and not so much at evaluating players. For example Jaime Jaquez did not get an UA offer, yet his mother played HS ball at Sabino.

His dealings with Book were also a little suspect. Once he caught Book feeding Ace information at PGU he suspended him, when he should have been fired. Not accusing Miller of anything nefarious, but a head coach is responsible for the whole program and why he was fired.

I don't dislike Miller, and truly wish him nothing but the best, but glad we have Tommy Lloyd now.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I really liked Bobby Knight, but it was a generational thing how coaches treated players. Also that Lute allowed Kevin O'Neill to verbally harass the players constantly. My dad used to go to the practices when they were open, and could not believe the words out of KO's mouth, including the N word.

These are all fair points, Merk. You paid close attention to the situation as it played out, just like the rest of us.

I suppose I'd just counter by saying that most good coaches have baggage. Some even have full blown scandals (Roy Williams, Self, Calipari).

Given how bloody hard it is to hire a good coach in this sport, I just wonder if the decision to fire Sean Miller wasn't given sufficient prudence.

You've noted a number of flaws in Miller. Denigrating his own players, stubbornness in his approach to the game, mismanaged recruiting, and poor judgment with Book. These are all bad, obviously, so I won't waste our time considering whether these are somehow "okay" or redeemable.

I asked my closest UofA alum friend before this season who he thought would get further in this year's NCAA tourney. Without hesitation, he said Lloyd. As we get further into the Lloyd era, with Miller still coaching and still winning, I suppose this question could come up again. Whether firing Miller was the right move.

RawleArenas wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 10:09 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 9:34 am

Merkin wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:07 pm A couple of reasons, one is his Bobby Knight treatment of players. Don't even recall Bobby swearing at players like Miller did, and we know for sure Lute never did. Lute never said "GET THE F*** OF THE COURT" like Miller did on national TV.

Also his unwillingness to change his offensive and defensive schemes based on the makeup of his players. I really hated watching the best big man in the nation Ayton trying to defend guards trying to shoot 3 point shots. To bring up Lute again, look at the Tucson Skyline and how he completely got away from 3 bigs on the floor at the same time.

He also tried to look at player ratings and not what is a good fit for Arizona. He offer sheet is legendary in how long it was. He also looked at ratings, and not so much at evaluating players. For example Jaime Jaquez did not get an UA offer, yet his mother played HS ball at Sabino.

His dealings with Book were also a little suspect. Once he caught Book feeding Ace information at PGU he suspended him, when he should have been fired. Not accusing Miller of anything nefarious, but a head coach is responsible for the whole program and why he was fired.

I don't dislike Miller, and truly wish him nothing but the best, but glad we have Tommy Lloyd now.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I really liked Bobby Knight, but it was a generational thing how coaches treated players. Also that Lute allowed Kevin O'Neill to verbally harass the players constantly. My dad used to go to the practices when they were open, and could not believe the words out of KO's mouth, including the N word.

These are all fair points, Merk. You paid close attention to the situation as it played out, just like the rest of us.

I suppose I'd just counter by saying that most good coaches have baggage. Some even have full blown scandals (Roy Williams, Self, Calipari).

Given how bloody hard it is to hire a good coach in this sport, I just wonder if the decision to fire Sean Miller wasn't given sufficient prudence.

You've noted a number of flaws in Miller. Denigrating his own players, stubbornness in his approach to the game, mismanaged recruiting, and poor judgment with Book. These are all bad, obviously, so I won't waste our time considering whether these are somehow "okay" or redeemable.

I asked my closest UofA alum friend before this season who he thought would get further in this year's NCAA tourney. Without hesitation, he said Lloyd. As we get further into the Lloyd era, with Miller still coaching and still winning, I suppose this question could come up again. Whether firing Miller was the right move.

As you well know, I've been more than supportive of the previous regime. That being said, over time I've gotten more in line with Merk and Choo's take on the whole situation. Looking back, CSM's tenure had more red flags than a Chinese parade. That doesn't take away from his basketball mind and his ability to put a great basketball product on the court. He has a dynamism about him that works well on the recruiting trail. He wouldn't have been able to secure his top classes if he didn't. As an aside, Coach Ros said in an interview that Lute got his offensive philosophy from Bobby Knight, with some tweaks of course. My main concern with CTL is that while he is a great coach with an understanding of the X's and O's there are two things that bother me:

1. He got the job a little too easily, he's never had to pull himself out of a hole hence his problems with recruiting. Generally, the guys who have this type of job have super strong resumes and go to work leveraging the Arizona name immediately. Not unlike what Nate Oats has done at Alabama, a school with far less basketball success than ours.

2. There's a saying that you're not a real boss until you fire someone. Can he get rid of players that are dead weight? Does he have the juice to have a tough conversation and basically gut the roster like CSMhad to do. I understand loyalty very well and I appreciate it. But when you have recruiting misses, they can set you back for years. I've mentioned this in the past about our problems with PJC, who Kriisa reminds me of because like him, he's being used out of position, hence our tournament woes. I'm not convinced yet if he has the ability to put his foot down and make the hard decisions.

I know a lot of people like CTL, and I'm ok with him (he can be a little dorky). But at the end of the day what separates the winners from the losers is your ability to shape your roster the way that you need to.

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:48 pm Miller is just 54. He was already showing some signs of change his last year in Tucson, like playing zone, and I think he would have continued to adapt had he stayed in Tucson. Small, minor changes that eventually, had he stayed, would have gotten us to a Final Four in my opinion. He's too good a coach and recruiter, and didn't need to tweak much. Heck, he had taken us to 3 Elite 8s. Eventually, you keep knocking , the door will open.

I also think Robbins and Heeke did Miller dirty. They underestimated his coaching ability, and thought his last year, no way we had a tournament quality team. But we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Miller. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban, and then there was no way we were going to keep Miller.

In the end, I'm happy with Tommy. And I'm happy Miller landed back home in Cincy with Xavier. Losing in the first round as a #2 seed sucks, but Tommy will learn from it. Heck, after Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years. With Tommy, I'd take a Final Four within the next four years and be happy about it.

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:48 pm With Tommy, I'd take a Final Four within the next four years and be happy about it.

pc in NM wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:35 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:48 pm Miller is just 54. He was already showing some signs of change his last year in Tucson, like playing zone, and I think he would have continued to adapt had he stayed in Tucson. Small, minor changes that eventually, had he stayed, would have gotten us to a Final Four in my opinion. He's too good a coach and recruiter, and didn't need to tweak much. Heck, he had taken us to 3 Elite 8s. Eventually, you keep knocking , the door will open.

I also think Robbins and Heeke did Miller dirty. They underestimated his coaching ability, and thought his last year, no way we had a tournament quality team. But we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Miller. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban, and then there was no way we were going to keep Miller.

In the end, I'm happy with Tommy. And I'm happy Miller landed back home in Cincy with Xavier. Losing in the first round as a #2 seed sucks, but Tommy will learn from it. Heck, after Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years. With Tommy, I'd take a Final Four within the next four years and be happy about it.

"They underestimated his coaching ability" - I've never seen any evidence of this. Do you have ANY?

"we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Millerr. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban" - again, do you have ANY actual evidence of this? AFAIK, the handwriting was on the wall ever since they did not renew his contract - his leaving was a foregone conclusion,

"Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years." - and then, we lost as a #1 in the Sweet 16 to #4 UNLV - UNLV was top-ranked the next season, and won the NC! Remind you of anyone?? (Hint: Houston?)

Like you, I'm happy with CTL - I'm a fan and don't think in todaay's game that "requiring a Final Four is a realistic requirement to retain a coach. I'd be thrilled by a Final Four anytime during his tenure, but admit that I love his personal style and attributes, his offensive style, the way he is a players coach, and the year-to-year improvement shown by many of his players! There's no one currently in the game I would rather have at Arizona!

I'm BTFD'ing!!!

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:43 pm

pc in NM wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:35 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:48 pm Miller is just 54. He was already showing some signs of change his last year in Tucson, like playing zone, and I think he would have continued to adapt had he stayed in Tucson. Small, minor changes that eventually, had he stayed, would have gotten us to a Final Four in my opinion. He's too good a coach and recruiter, and didn't need to tweak much. Heck, he had taken us to 3 Elite 8s. Eventually, you keep knocking , the door will open.

I also think Robbins and Heeke did Miller dirty. They underestimated his coaching ability, and thought his last year, no way we had a tournament quality team. But we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Miller. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban, and then there was no way we were going to keep Miller.

In the end, I'm happy with Tommy. And I'm happy Miller landed back home in Cincy with Xavier. Losing in the first round as a #2 seed sucks, but Tommy will learn from it. Heck, after Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years. With Tommy, I'd take a Final Four within the next four years and be happy about it.

"They underestimated his coaching ability" - I've never seen any evidence of this. Do you have ANY?

"we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Millerr. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban" - again, do you have ANY actual evidence of this? AFAIK, the handwriting was on the wall ever since they did not renew his contract - his leaving was a foregone conclusion,

"Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years." - and then, we lost as a #1 in the Sweet 16 to #4 UNLV - UNLV was top-ranked the next season, and won the NC! Remind you of anyone?? (Hint: Houston?)

Like you, I'm happy with CTL - I'm a fan and don't think in todaay's game that "requiring a Final Four is a realistic requirement to retain a coach. I'd be thrilled by a Final Four anytime during his tenure, but admit that I love his personal style and attributes, his offensive style, the way he is a players coach, and the year-to-year improvement shown by many of his players! There's no one currently in the game I would rather have at Arizona!

I'm BTFD'ing!!!

No inside info. Just reading between the lines. Yes, the writing was on the wall with no extension. But Robbins and Heeke wanted to fire Miller for performance. But can you really fire a coach for performance after a deep run in March? No.

I don't think Robbins and Heeke thought Miller's lay Arizona team was Tournament quality. But then we started winning, and found ourselves in the bubble. There was no reason to announce a post season ban, except to make sure Miller couldn't make a deep run in March.

The post season ban was overkill punishment. No other school in the scandal has faced anything like this.

But it's all water under the bridge now. Tommy is a great coach and I'm confident we'll find Tournament success with him, sooner more likely than later. And Miller is in a place where he is happy too. But I still say Robbins and Heeke did Miller, not to mention the team dirty with the post season ban.

pc in NM wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:47 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:43 pm

pc in NM wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:35 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:48 pm Miller is just 54. He was already showing some signs of change his last year in Tucson, like playing zone, and I think he would have continued to adapt had he stayed in Tucson. Small, minor changes that eventually, had he stayed, would have gotten us to a Final Four in my opinion. He's too good a coach and recruiter, and didn't need to tweak much. Heck, he had taken us to 3 Elite 8s. Eventually, you keep knocking , the door will open.

I also think Robbins and Heeke did Miller dirty. They underestimated his coaching ability, and thought his last year, no way we had a tournament quality team. But we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Miller. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban, and then there was no way we were going to keep Miller.

In the end, I'm happy with Tommy. And I'm happy Miller landed back home in Cincy with Xavier. Losing in the first round as a #2 seed sucks, but Tommy will learn from it. Heck, after Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years. With Tommy, I'd take a Final Four within the next four years and be happy about it.

"They underestimated his coaching ability" - I've never seen any evidence of this. Do you have ANY?

"we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Millerr. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban" - again, do you have ANY actual evidence of this? AFAIK, the handwriting was on the wall ever since they did not renew his contract - his leaving was a foregone conclusion,

"Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years." - and then, we lost as a #1 in the Sweet 16 to #4 UNLV - UNLV was top-ranked the next season, and won the NC! Remind you of anyone?? (Hint: Houston?)

Like you, I'm happy with CTL - I'm a fan and don't think in todaay's game that "requiring a Final Four is a realistic requirement to retain a coach. I'd be thrilled by a Final Four anytime during his tenure, but admit that I love his personal style and attributes, his offensive style, the way he is a players coach, and the year-to-year improvement shown by many of his players! There's no one currently in the game I would rather have at Arizona!

I'm BTFD'ing!!!

No inside info. Just reading between the lines. Yes, the writing was on the wall with no extension. But Robbins and Heeke wanted to fire Miller for performance. But can you really fire a coach for performance after a deep run in March? No.

I don't think Robbins and Heeke thought Miller's lay Arizona team was Tournament quality. But then we started winning, and found ourselves in the bubble. There was no reason to announce a post season ban, except to make sure Miller couldn't make a deep run in March.

The post season ban was overkill punishment. No other school in the scandal has faced anything like this.

But it's all water under the bridge now. Tommy is a great coach and I'm confident we'll find Tournament success with him, sooner more likely than later. And Miller is in a place where he is happy too. But I still say Robbins and Heeke did Miller, not to mention the team dirty with the post season ban.

You’re playing your movie on their screens; sorry, but all I see is your projections. There’s a possibility you are correct, but I deem it highly improbable. IMNSHO, They had concluded long before that they would part ways with CSM, but they honored the contract, and avoided a ton of buyout. I have no idea of their personal/professional judgments of his performance, his skills or his character - but they clearly concluded that it was in the best interests of the university that they separate.

Whether intended or not, it was good for CSM.

And in spite of almost everyone’s initial judgments, they made one hell of a hire!

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:51 pm

pc in NM wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:47 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:43 pm

pc in NM wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 2:35 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 1:48 pm Miller is just 54. He was already showing some signs of change his last year in Tucson, like playing zone, and I think he would have continued to adapt had he stayed in Tucson. Small, minor changes that eventually, had he stayed, would have gotten us to a Final Four in my opinion. He's too good a coach and recruiter, and didn't need to tweak much. Heck, he had taken us to 3 Elite 8s. Eventually, you keep knocking , the door will open.

I also think Robbins and Heeke did Miller dirty. They underestimated his coaching ability, and thought his last year, no way we had a tournament quality team. But we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Miller. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban, and then there was no way we were going to keep Miller.

In the end, I'm happy with Tommy. And I'm happy Miller landed back home in Cincy with Xavier. Losing in the first round as a #2 seed sucks, but Tommy will learn from it. Heck, after Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years. With Tommy, I'd take a Final Four within the next four years and be happy about it.

"They underestimated his coaching ability" - I've never seen any evidence of this. Do you have ANY?

"we ended up being on the bubble, and that messed with the plans to fire Millerr. Go on a tournament run, and can't fire Miller. So Robbins/Heeke pulled the rug out from under the season and announced the post-season ban" - again, do you have ANY actual evidence of this? AFAIK, the handwriting was on the wall ever since they did not renew his contract - his leaving was a foregone conclusion,

"Lute lost in the first round as a #2 seed, we made the Final Four the next year, and were National Champions within 4 years." - and then, we lost as a #1 in the Sweet 16 to #4 UNLV - UNLV was top-ranked the next season, and won the NC! Remind you of anyone?? (Hint: Houston?)

Like you, I'm happy with CTL - I'm a fan and don't think in todaay's game that "requiring a Final Four is a realistic requirement to retain a coach. I'd be thrilled by a Final Four anytime during his tenure, but admit that I love his personal style and attributes, his offensive style, the way he is a players coach, and the year-to-year improvement shown by many of his players! There's no one currently in the game I would rather have at Arizona!

I'm BTFD'ing!!!

No inside info. Just reading between the lines. Yes, the writing was on the wall with no extension. But Robbins and Heeke wanted to fire Miller for performance. But can you really fire a coach for performance after a deep run in March? No.

I don't think Robbins and Heeke thought Miller's lay Arizona team was Tournament quality. But then we started winning, and found ourselves in the bubble. There was no reason to announce a post season ban, except to make sure Miller couldn't make a deep run in March.

The post season ban was overkill punishment. No other school in the scandal has faced anything like this.

But it's all water under the bridge now. Tommy is a great coach and I'm confident we'll find Tournament success with him, sooner more likely than later. And Miller is in a place where he is happy too. But I still say Robbins and Heeke did Miller, not to mention the team dirty with the post season ban.

You’re playing your movie on their screens; sorry, but all I see is your projections. There’s a possibility you are correct, but I deem it highly improbable. IMNSHO, They had concluded long before that they would part ways with CSM, but they honored the contract, and avoided a ton of buyout. I have no idea of their personal/professional judgments of his performance, his skills or his character - but they clearly concluded that it was in the best interests of the university that they separate.

Whether intended or not, it was good for CSM.

And in spite of almost everyone’s initial judgments, they made one hell of a hire!

I am projecting. I also remember Heeke stating he let Miller go because we weren't meeting the high expectations of the program. Can Heeke Say that if we go on a run in March?

And again, there was no reason to self punish at the time. We had no idea how any school would be punished. And signs were pointing to limited punishments, which is ultimately what happened.

Robbins and Heeke had made up their mind mid-season. Only thing that could've derailed their plan was a Tinkle style March run. Make an Elite 8 or further, can Heeke say Miller isn't living up to on court expectations? No. So, Robbins and Heeke did the one thing that ensured Miller couldn't make a deep run.

TheCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:08 pm I don't think Book loyalty had anything to do with the case against Arizona or Miller. Do you honestly believe that Sean knew Book was receiving money for steering players after they turned pro to a financial advisor? What's in it for Sean or the Arizona program? Nothing.

EastCoastCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:20 pm

TheCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:08 pm I don't think Book loyalty had anything to do with the case against Arizona or Miller. Do you honestly believe that Sean knew Book was receiving money for steering players after they turned pro to a financial advisor? What's in it for Sean or the Arizona program? Nothing.

You need to catch up. There have been countless posts by well sourced people stating that this wasn't Book's first misstep.

CSM should have cut him off a long time ago but he didn't. It ultimately led to his downfall at Arizona whether he knew what Book did in this case or not.

As Hopper once said in A Bug's Life:

TheCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:08 pm I don't think Book loyalty had anything to do with the case against Arizona or Miller. Do you honestly believe that Sean knew Book was receiving money for steering players after they turned pro to a financial advisor? What's in it for Sean or the Arizona program? Nothing.

EastCoastCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:20 pm You need to catch up. There have been countless posts by well sourced people stating that this wasn't Book's first misstep.

dovecanyoncat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:19 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:20 pm

TheCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:08 pm I don't think Book loyalty had anything to do with the case against Arizona or Miller. Do you honestly believe that Sean knew Book was receiving money for steering players after they turned pro to a financial advisor? What's in it for Sean or the Arizona program? Nothing.

You need to catch up. There have been countless posts by well sourced people stating that this wasn't Book's first misstep.

CSM should have cut him off a long time ago but he didn't. It ultimately led to his downfall at Arizona whether he knew what Book did in this case or not.

As Hopper once said in A Bug's Life:

Close, but it's a tad more nuanced: In leadership: not always at fault but always responsible.

Merkin wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:05 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 3:27 pm

dovecanyoncat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:19 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:20 pm

TheCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:08 pm I don't think Book loyalty had anything to do with the case against Arizona or Miller. Do you honestly believe that Sean knew Book was receiving money for steering players after they turned pro to a financial advisor? What's in it for Sean or the Arizona program? Nothing.

You need to catch up. There have been countless posts by well sourced people stating that this wasn't Book's first misstep.

CSM should have cut him off a long time ago but he didn't. It ultimately led to his downfall at Arizona whether he knew what Book did in this case or not.

As Hopper once said in A Bug's Life:

Close, but it's a tad more nuanced: In leadership: not always at fault but always responsible.

It was supposed to be tongue in cheek Dove. You are such a literal MF.

dovecanyoncat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:19 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:20 pm

TheCat wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:08 pm I don't think Book loyalty had anything to do with the case against Arizona or Miller. Do you honestly believe that Sean knew Book was receiving money for steering players after they turned pro to a financial advisor? What's in it for Sean or the Arizona program? Nothing.

You need to catch up. There have been countless posts by well sourced people stating that this wasn't Book's first misstep.

CSM should have cut him off a long time ago but he didn't. It ultimately led to his downfall at Arizona whether he knew what Book did in this case or not.

As Hopper once said in A Bug's Life:

Close, but it's a tad more nuanced: In leadership: not always at fault but always responsible.