Bear Down Wildcats

Going to overtime.

The roof might come off this place.

Chicat wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 6:13 pm I’m at the Chesterton (20-0) vs Valparaiso (18-3) basketball game.

An Indiana Friday night and pretty much the entirety of both towns are packed in this little field house.

It’s like something out of Hoosiers. Feels pretty old school.

I hadn't imagined there was a Valparaiso High School. I don't know why.

Chesterton pulls it out after being down pretty much all game.

Jimmy Chitwood went for 40 points.

Longhorned wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 8:28 pmI hadn't imagined there was a Valparaiso High School. I don't know why.

That’s where Femcat went (she was there at the same time as Bryce Drew) but tonight she crossed enemy lines to root for Chesterton since that’s where our kids will go.

It’s a small town, and we all pull for the team.

Nice. But if you want to be really cool say it was Bobby Plump (real life Jimmy Chitwood)

His name is actually Travis Grayson, and if he was 6’3” instead of 5’10”, he’d be playing at Butler, Purdue, or Indiana next year. Unfortunately he’s only being recruited by very very small schools and apparently isn’t in the running for Indiana Mr. Basketball even though he leads the #1 undefeated team in Class 4A.

The kid was nails. 9-15 from the floor and 20-22 at the line. For most of the second half and all of overtime the offense was “give it to Grayson and get the hell out of his way” and Valparaiso couldn’t stop him without fouling him. He even blocked what would have been a buzzer beating three at the end of regulation. He was awesome.

Sounds like a great time Chi. Just love HS basketball to this day.

High school basketball is the best. My friend's son played at Sabino with Korcheck and I went to a couple of games. It brought back lots of memories because Sabino has the same layout as Sahuaro where we played.

Remember watching that from the bar at the base of Big Sky, MT

Dang I'm getting old!

Dude looks great. VB keeping him in shape.

He looks like James Reyne in the 80s.

Sad. One of the great old-timers.

Fred Snowden, Coniel "Popcorn" Norman and Eric Money put Arizona basketball on the national scene for all the right reasons!! The "Kiddy Korps" made the brand new McKale Center a go to destination for fans!!!

Those were the days!!!!

Sad to hear of his passing!!

Oh man, that makes me sad. Before my time but the legend has been alive here this whole time.

I saw this yesterday and it made me very sad. If you look at my posts where we talk about all time great cats, I have always included corn. By far the best shooter this school has ever produced. He was my childhood hero and made me love wildcat basketball. Hard to believe he is gone

Went to every one of the games while Snowden was coach. Some really good, fun to watch teams. Sorry to hear about Coniel's passing away.

He was incredible and played initially in the old Bear Down gym. The games were so packed that they showed them on CC at the student union. That team was the start of Arizona basketball. Both Eric and Coniel left after their sophomore season in what was called the hardship draft. The best shooter I ever saw in person with Kerr a close second. Sorry and sad to hear of his passing.

50% shooter both years. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pl ... man-1.html

Shame there are no videos that I could find.

Good bio on him here and some of the demons he had: https://www.swsol.org/coniel-norman/

pc in NM wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 7:27 am Fred Snowden, Coniel "Popcorn" Norman and Eric Money put Arizona basketball on the national scene for all the right reasons!! The "Kiddy Korps" made the brand new McKale Center a go to destination for fans!!!

That's Fred "The Fox" Snowden, Coniel "Popcorn" Norman, and Eric "Dollar Bill" Money.

And man they were great.

As a guard, Money could penetrate a brick wall, but unfortunately couldn't guard a fence post. Thank goodness for Al Fleming.

Coniel was the greatest pure shooter I have ever seen, period. His shots went so high, they were coming almost straight down when they got to the rim. Before they moved into McKale, there were times when we all thought he was going to take out a light fixture in Bear Down.

I wish we had video of Norman's games, I'm positive if he had a 3point line back then he would have a few 60 point nights. His favorite spot was the right side corner. Watching Jim Rappis with a behind the back, no look dish to Coniel in the corner was beautiful man, beautiful.

RIP Coniel.

Playing around the internet for info on Coniel, I came across this story by Javier Morales - its a pretty good read...

Top 10 Games Fred Snowden Era: Bob Elliott, Al Fleming too much for Robert Parish

Ha! I thought it was an olde story from way back, but NO! It is current! Dated 24 March 2022

So in case you missed it...

RichardCranium wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:53 am Playing around the internet for info on Coniel, I came across this story by Javier Morales - its a pretty good read...

Top 10 Games Fred Snowden Era: Bob Elliott, Al Fleming too much for Robert Parish

Ha! I thought it was an olde story from way back, but NO! It is current! Dated 24 March 2022

So in case you missed it...

Also recommend this SI article about the vibe around Snowden and the Kiddie Corp (plus Big Bird).

https://vault.si.com/vault/1974/02/11/b ... us-flowers

Coniel Norman went 17-22 vs Wyoming at McKale and 21-24 on the road vs BYU can you imagine if a player today did that? We would go nuts.

atlantakat wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 5:42 am

RichardCranium wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:53 am Playing around the internet for info on Coniel, I came across this story by Javier Morales - its a pretty good read...

Top 10 Games Fred Snowden Era: Bob Elliott, Al Fleming too much for Robert Parish

Ha! I thought it was an olde story from way back, but NO! It is current! Dated 24 March 2022

So in case you missed it...

Also recommend this SI article about the vibe around Snowden and the Kiddie Corp (plus Big Bird).

https://vault.si.com/vault/1974/02/11/b ... us-flowers

Dang, that's impressive.

For 10 years Snowden coached in the Detroit school system where his teams had an 189-7 total record, never losing more than two games in a single year. He took a pay cut to become an assistant coach at Michigan in 1968.

Amazing the changes in pay from then to today.

Now he has two television shows, appears in several commercials and generates almost enough outside income to match his $23,500 salary from the university. Last week, while he prepared for the Arizona State game, he also was wrestling with the problems of a new $50,000 house. "I always dreamed big dreams," he says.

And where's the film?

Arizona won the game despite an average performance from Coniel Norman, whose names go as well backward as forward but whose scoring style is straight ahead. "He's the best shooter in college basketball," says Holmes. Named the WAC's Most Valuable Player last year as a freshman, Norman was a high school teammate of Money's and once made 127 out of 128 practice free throws. And if Bobby Riggs ever cares to challenge him, he will let the old man shoot from the foul line while he fires away from half court. A television crew filmed him shooting 20-footers earlier this year. Norman swished 37 straight before the crew ran out of film.

RichardCranium wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:53 am Playing around the internet for info on Coniel, I came across this story by Javier Morales - its a pretty good read...

Top 10 Games Fred Snowden Era: Bob Elliott, Al Fleming too much for Robert Parish

Ha! I thought it was an olde story from way back, but NO! It is current! Dated 24 March 2022

So in case you missed it...

Amazing. Centenary was Div I until 2011, and has a student enrollment of 787. Now down to Div III.


https://gocentenary.com/sports/mbkb/202 ... d_Book.pdf

Centenary was 1-2 v. UA between 1952-74,
Their record v. ASU was 2-1.

azcat49 wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:01 am Coniel Norman went 17-22 vs Wyoming at McKale and 21-24 on the road vs BYU can you imagine if a player today did that? We would go nuts.

I was fortunate enough to be front and center for the Wyoming game and up in the nose bleed section at the BYU game in Provo.

Very sad day today to hear of his passing.

8: 1997

Best attribute(s): An awesome Sweet 16 and Arizona


Best game: Arizona 85, Kansas 82 (Sweet 16)

After a rather staid first weekend to the 1997 tournament -- 13 of the final 16 teams were top-six seeds -- all hell broke loose in the Sweet 16, with three overtime games (including a double-OT classic between Minnesota and Clemson) and six of eight games decided by six or fewer points.

Three No. 1 seeds survived and advanced to the Final Four, but 4-seed Arizona, led by an incredible perimeter attack (Miles Simon, Mike Bibby, Michael Dickerson, Jason Terry), won three games by four or fewer points -- including a thriller over Kansas, the Southeast region's top seed -- to advance to the Final Four. Once there, the Wildcats took down North Carolina in the semis and survived Kentucky in overtime to earn Lute Olson his only national title.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... ournaments

^^^ enfuego just got triggered.

I would buy a 1987 version of this shirt:

Back when a tourney like that counted only as a single game. Once the NCAA made each game count as a separate game that ruined them.

Thought that was a Dirtbags shirt for a quick second

So ESPN ranks the all time starting 5's from Seeet 16 teams. Arizona comes in at #7.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... et-16-team

One thing I find interesting is that I think I can give you a second 5 from Arizona that would either beat or give the first 5 all it could handle. As my second 5, give me:

Jason Terry
Gilbert Arenas
RJ
Aaron Gordon
Deandre Ayton

I assume you get the college version, so I miss out on DA's defensive development in the pros, but 1-4, that's a monster defensive team. Terry, Arenas and Ayton can all give you 30 at any point and you want to talk about athleticism and length?

Yeah, I didn’t agree with ESPN’s AZ starting five. We could probably move up a couple spots.

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:14 am Yeah, I didn’t agree with ESPN’s AZ starting five. We could probably move up a couple spots.

The thing about Arizona...we have depth other teams don't. Like Houston's starting 5 might be better, but our second unit would murder theirs.

The second unit I put together, I'd at minimum take it over Michigan's, Houston's and probably Duke's.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:18 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:14 am Yeah, I didn’t agree with ESPN’s AZ starting five. We could probably move up a couple spots.

The thing about Arizona...we have depth other teams don't. Like Houston's starting 5 might be better, but our second unit would murder theirs.

The second unit I put together, I'd at minimum take it over Michigan's, Houston's and probably Duke's.

JT, Jefferson, Arenas, Gordon, Ayton, McConnell, Salim, Iguodala, Walton…just a few of the names that come to mind. Oh, here’s another one: Benn freaking Mathurin!

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:36 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:18 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:14 am Yeah, I didn’t agree with ESPN’s AZ starting five. We could probably move up a couple spots.

The thing about Arizona...we have depth other teams don't. Like Houston's starting 5 might be better, but our second unit would murder theirs.

The second unit I put together, I'd at minimum take it over Michigan's, Houston's and probably Duke's.

JT, Jefferson, Arenas, Gordon, Ayton, McConnell, Salim, Iguodala, Walton…just a few of the names that come to mind. Oh, here’s another one: Benn freaking Mathurin!

You didn't even mention Steve Kerr, Khalid Reeves, Channing Frye, Nick Johnson...Arizona has a stacked lineup through 3-4 teams. I don't disagree with ESPN that our top five might not be in a top five all time, but we do have some tremendous depth.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:42 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:36 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:18 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:14 am Yeah, I didn’t agree with ESPN’s AZ starting five. We could probably move up a couple spots.

The thing about Arizona...we have depth other teams don't. Like Houston's starting 5 might be better, but our second unit would murder theirs.

The second unit I put together, I'd at minimum take it over Michigan's, Houston's and probably Duke's.

JT, Jefferson, Arenas, Gordon, Ayton, McConnell, Salim, Iguodala, Walton…just a few of the names that come to mind. Oh, here’s another one: Benn freaking Mathurin!

You didn't even mention Steve Kerr, Khalid Reeves, Channing Frye, Nick Johnson...Arizona has a stacked lineup through 3-4 teams. I don't disagree with ESPN that our top five might not be in a top five all time, but we do have some tremendous depth.

Totally. Our roster of great players is DEEP.

Mathurin has a shot to crack the starting five if he does what I'm thinking he will!

March Madness: Ranking the all-time starting fives for the 2022 NCAA tournament Sweet 16 teams

7. Arizona Wildcats

The two Elliotts anchor this strong all-time lineup.

G Mike Bibby: Led team to 1997 national championship; AP All-America first team (1998); averaged 17.2 PPG, 5.7 APG, 39% from 3 in 1997-98

G Damon Stoudamire: AP All-America first team (1995), led team to Final Four in 1994; 1995 Pac-12 player of the year; averaged 22.8 PPG, 7.3 APG, 46% from 3

F Sean Elliott: Won the Wooden Award (1989); AP-All America first team (1988, 1989); led team to 1988 Final Four; averaged 22.3 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 44% from beyond the arc in 1988-89

F Derrick Williams: AP All-America second team (2011); averaged 17.8 PPG, 7.7 RPG in two years at Arizona; Pac-10 (now Pac-12) Player of the Year (2011)

F Bob Elliott: Let team to first Elite Eight in 1976; his 23.3 PPG in 1974-75 is fifth all-time in school history

Coach: Lute Olson (1997 national championship)

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... et-16-team

Until the (team/year that shall not be named) game came along this was my worst UA memory.

Lots of good ones in the replies

UAEebs86 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:00 am Lots of good ones in the replies

It says a lot about the athletes at Arizona that my list of top 5 dunkers here wouldn't include Hassan Adams, Sean Elliott and Benn Mathurin.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:48 am

UAEebs86 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:00 am Lots of good ones in the replies

It says a lot about the athletes at Arizona that my list of top 5 dunkers here wouldn't include Hassan Adams, Sean Elliott and Benn Mathurin.

Top 5: Derrick Williams, Iguodala, RJ, Rawle, and AG.

Honorable mention: Nick Johnson, Mathurin, Adams, Dickerson, Budinger

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:22 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:48 am

UAEebs86 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:00 am Lots of good ones in the replies

It says a lot about the athletes at Arizona that my list of top 5 dunkers here wouldn't include Hassan Adams, Sean Elliott and Benn Mathurin.

Top 5: Derrick Williams, Iguodala, RJ, Rawle, and AG.

Honorable mention: Nick Johnson, Mathurin, Adams, Dickerson, Budinger

I have Nick in my top 5, agree with the other 4 you named. Nick was hitting in game 360's like Rawle didn't.

Kind of telling I forgot Budinger and that we're not even mentioning guys like Rondae, Stanley, Buechler, etc.

For me, NJ, Bennedict, Stan, and RHJ are above rawle. NJ and Benn are hard to pick between for the #5 spot. Could you imagine Benn next year?? Holy Wah!! That would be some amazing stuff.

AG is easily number 1 for me.

But then again, it was very difficult to see very many Arizona games before the Miller era. Nationwide access has been much better since then, even if you have to stream sling to get pac 12, wasn't even an option not that many years ago.

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:13 pm For me, NJ, Bennedict, Stan, and RHJ are above rawle. NJ and Benn are hard to pick between for the #5 spot. Could you imagine Benn next year?? Holy Wah!! That would be some amazing stuff.

AG is easily number 1 for me.

But then again, it was very difficult to see very many Arizona games before the Miller era. Nationwide access has been much better since then, even if you have to stream sling to get pac 12, wasn't even an option not that many years ago.

Gotta be Iggy in your top 5.

https://youtu.be/bZAkWvpEFhs

Or DWill.

https://youtu.be/SZCN7_S9DZQ

https://youtu.be/iPWQqK5pRSk

I agree with the other 4, AG, DWill, Iggy, RJ, then it is NJ or Benn.

Sorry, should have made that more clear, just disputing rawle, he had some good stuff but he's down the list a bit.

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:10 pm I agree with the other 4, AG, DWill, Iggy, RJ, then it is NJ or Benn.

Sorry, should have made that more clear, just disputing rawle, he had some good stuff but he's down the list a bit.

Or I could have been less of an internet jerk. I'd go NJ at 5, but even pushing for top 5 at Arizona is a big deal.