Bear Down Wildcats

84Cat wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:14 pm

loomer wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:19 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:29 pm

Chicat wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:14 am Yeah, gonna have to mark it as “still waiting” as far as Lloyd’s first true recruiting coup for Arizona. Obviously he re-recruited a couple of current UA players and has gotten some transfers during what was an unprecedented transfer atmosphere, but we are still waiting on Tommy to go head to head against a bunch of other schools for a high school stud and land that whale.

Jaden Bradley is deciding very soon.

RawleArenas wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

IndianaZonaFan wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:13 pm

RawleArenas wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

IndianaZonaFan wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:13 pm

RawleArenas wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:56 pm

IndianaZonaFan wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:13 pm

RawleArenas wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

If Lloyd can't recruit until 2023, we ****ed up bad.

Losing Bradley...when does losing out become the norm for Lloyd? We heard about how Tyty and Kaluma were ok because they were last minute things, but Bradley was a significant target Lloyd's had his whole tenure here on.

The longer this goes losing out on all big recruits...I mean, our #7 national class is just becoming sophomores. We won these battles up until a few months ago.

YoDeFoe wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:16 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:56 pm

IndianaZonaFan wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:13 pm

RawleArenas wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

If Lloyd can't recruit until 2023, we ****ed up bad.

Losing Bradley...when does losing out become the norm for Lloyd? We heard about how Tyty and Kaluma were ok because they were last minute things, but Bradley was a significant target Lloyd's had his whole tenure here on.

The longer this goes losing out on all big recruits...I mean, our #7 national class is just becoming sophomores. We won these battles up until a few months ago.

Alabama has been on Bradley since 2019. Lloyd was on Bradley less than a single offseason.

I'm not saying that to excuse anything. I'm not. This losing out on recruits shit sucks.

But "his whole tenure" ...let's have the right perspective.

YoDeFoe wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:05 pm Spiff I'm not saying we need to be on a guy for two years to compete with the guys who have been, but seriously: Tommy Lloyd was recuiting for a different program less than six months ago. Same with Coach Rob. Our staff legit just got here. I'm not happy to lose on these guys, not making excuses. Losing is bad. But if we're wondering why it's not a completely nebulous.

DrWildcat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:10 am I'm not going to worry about recruiting banners as the only thing those have led to over the years is disappointment.

gronk4heisman wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:24 pm

IndianaZonaFan wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:13 pm

RawleArenas wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

Better hope Tubelis and Ben stay or 22-23 could be a very down year at this rate.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:47 am

DrWildcat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:10 am I'm not going to worry about recruiting banners as the only thing those have led to over the years is disappointment.

I'm going to disagree with you here.

I only went back 10 years, but 9 of the last 10 teams to win an NCAA championship had multiple top 50 recruits on their team. The majority of teams also had multiple top 20 recruits.

Right now, Dalen Terry is our only top 50 recruit and we don't have a guy who'd be a second top 50 recruit incoming. So historically, we don't have the talent level to win a NC.

RawleArenas wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:48 am I'm not sure if I understand your post. This year's team would have been Miller's best in terms of depth, experience and guard play. That team was locked and loaded and ready to compete with anyone. I was really excited to see us getting back to squashing teams in our conference like Oregon and UCLA.

I'm not a fan of taking a wait and see approach to the IARP. No other team (OSU, LSU, Auburn/Kansas(not in the same situation but under heavy scrutiny and/or future penalties) and USC) is waiting to hear back from the powers that be to decide to their jobs. When you come to a big time program, that's what you sign up for: big personalities, crazy politics and outrageous expectations. When you fire a coach as good as our last one, I want you to show me quickly why we hired you. I want a 'WOW' experience, especially when you forcibly lowered the ceiling on this year's team.

Coming to here to Arizona, many of us were expecting the new coach to come in ready to impress and hit the ground running, but as far as I can see he's only been hitting the ground.

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:57 am

gronk4heisman wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:24 pm

IndianaZonaFan wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:13 pm

RawleArenas wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

Better hope Tubelis and Ben stay or 22-23 could be a very down year at this rate.

In a world where we still have Kerr, Pelle, and Dalen, we’re doing just fine in 2022-23. The post will be fine that season as well, trust me.

Now we have to land our targets in the 2023 class, but the IARP should be behind us then and we are putting work into that class more so than we’ve been able to work the 2022 class.

TheCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:20 am IARP has not stopped other teams from landing good recruits (see Kansas which has a ton of allegations against it) .This excuse is wearing a bit thin at times when others seem to have overcome it. Kerr, Pelle and Dalen are not going to bring a PAC-12 championship to Ariz. Maybe you have reason to be optimistic but I am seeing struggle and excuses.

RawleArenas wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:48 am I'm not sure if I understand your post. This year's team would have been Miller's best in terms of depth, experience and guard play. That team was locked and loaded and ready to compete with anyone. I was really excited to see us getting back to squashing teams in our conference like Oregon and UCLA.

I'm not a fan of taking a wait and see approach to the IARP. No other team (OSU, LSU, Auburn/Kansas(not in the same situation but under heavy scrutiny and/or future penalties) and USC) is waiting to hear back from the powers that be to decide to their jobs. When you come to a big time program, that's what you sign up for: big personalities, crazy politics and outrageous expectations. When you fire a coach as good as our last one, I want you to show me quickly why we hired you. I want a 'WOW' experience, especially when you forcibly lowered the ceiling on this year's team.

Coming to here to Arizona, many of us were expecting the new coach to come in ready to impress and hit the ground running, but as far as I can see he's only been hitting the ground.

RawleArenas wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:17 am The laundry list of violations from Kansas is far worse than what we're dealing with, especially since we've already self-sanctioned. Again, I wholly disagree with the idea that we need to wait before we decide how we are going to operate as a program. We have tons of smart people within our administration who have access to consultants and legal personnel that can help them effectively hedge against any future penalties. So in my mind, this whole obsession is a non starter.

Now, on behalf of this year's team I can't take your assessment seriously. We had four all conference players and a top 25 recruiting class coming in. We would have returned all of our important players on team that likely would have made a sweet sixteen this past year if we had not forfeited our postseason. The 2014 and 2015 had bad luck and depth issues that prevented it from capturing a title. This team didn't. We had the reigning Pac 12 sixth man of the year, Tubelis, Aiken and Koloko (who is presumed to be all conference caliber as well) Kriisa and first year guard KJ Simpson who I was really high on and still think he would have been another Miller development success story. Miller was also looking to add another big for depth. Looking at the teams that did well this past year from the Pac like Oregon State, Colorado and USC, two of them which made the elite 8, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that this years team would be fully capable of making a deep run, considering our team would have been FAR stronger and deeper than those. That team wasn't a project, they needed some experience which they have now and were fully ready to make noise this year. That's why they were ranked #15 preseason.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people are so down on Miller that they are ready to rewrite his history, no matter how far they have to stretch the facts.

TheCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:20 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:57 am

gronk4heisman wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:24 pm

IndianaZonaFan wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:13 pm

RawleArenas wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:57 pm You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

Better hope Tubelis and Ben stay or 22-23 could be a very down year at this rate.

In a world where we still have Kerr, Pelle, and Dalen, we’re doing just fine in 2022-23. The post will be fine that season as well, trust me.

Now we have to land our targets in the 2023 class, but the IARP should be behind us then and we are putting work into that class more so than we’ve been able to work the 2022 class.

IARP has not stopped other teams from landing good recruits (see Kansas which has a ton of allegations against it) .This excuse is wearing a bit thin at times when others seem to have overcome it. Kerr, Pelle and Dalen are not going to bring a PAC-12 championship to Ariz. Maybe you have reason to be optimistic but I am seeing struggle and excuses.

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

TheCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:15 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean's players stood by him and came here when they didn't have to. Tommy Lloyd doesn't lie. How do you know what he is telling folks or what Sean told folks. Quit making shit up because you didn't like Miller. You need another break.

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:50 pm

TheCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:15 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean's players stood by him and came here when they didn't have to. Tommy Lloyd doesn't lie. How do you know what he is telling folks or what Sean told folks. Quit making shit up because you didn't like Miller. You need another break.

Please point to me where I said Sean lied to every player he’s ever coached. Just because Miller didn’t lie to every single player he coached doesn’t mean he didn’t lie to land a recruit for something as simple of a reason as to prevent a guy from going to a rival school.

Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here.

TheCat wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:22 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:50 pm

TheCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:15 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean's players stood by him and came here when they didn't have to. Tommy Lloyd doesn't lie. How do you know what he is telling folks or what Sean told folks. Quit making shit up because you didn't like Miller. You need another break.

Please point to me where I said Sean lied to every player he’s ever coached. Just because Miller didn’t lie to every single player he coached doesn’t mean he didn’t lie to land a recruit for something as simple of a reason as to prevent a guy from going to a rival school.

Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here.

Choo quite frankly you don't know what you are talking about. You have NO idea what Sean has said to a player or his family. You bit off more than you can chew, got called on it and it is best just to move on from this. It doesn't help your credibility.

BBQ wildcat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:51 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

I know you know a lot about the program and have inside info. And we appreciate the info you bring But I call bullshit on that statement. Is there any way you can back it up, other than to say "believe me"? Because branding Miller a liar and Tommy a saint smacks of having a hate/love blinder on.

IndianaZonaFan wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:08 am
Choo’s also not branding Miller a flat out liar. Just saying he might gas up a recruit to get a commitment.

Alieberman wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:24 am Sean Miller once told me to Bear Down. I honestly thought he was sincere at the time… but now I don’t know what to think…