Bear Down Wildcats

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:53 am**

You agreed with exactly what I said last week

So what changed?

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:53 am**

We will see about the money as all we have is hope from GK that it will be higher.

I think it does hurt the Zags as while they have made it to a couple FF’s, they have lost the big games with what appeared to be superior talent. I actually think their conference is probably better than what we will have left in this conference.

I just think it’s time to move. I kind of have felt we have never been a good fit here(athletically) and we have been kind of the outlier program. We get zero respect. It’s just time to go

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:07 am**

Move to the BIG 12, and two things that cause late night home kickoffs won't change. Our time zone and the September heat. Assuming we move with the other 4 corner schools, we'd likely play at Utah or Colorado at least once a year. So we're talking 3 road conference games, at most, that might have better start times. Is that worth $3 million dollar less, assuming the next PAC contract is valued around $35million a school?

We might get a few more decent start times for basketball. But stay in the PAC, we'd get plenty of prime tv slots on the ESPN family, as they would still hold PAC-12 T1 rights for basketball. And in the PAC, Arizona would be the men's basketball flag bearer, especially with UCLA gone. Competition in the PAC may not match the BIG 12 now, but again, is increased competition in basketball worth a loss of $3 million a year? Not in my opinion. Money talks.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:21 am**

PHXCATS wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:53 am You agreed with exactly what I said last week

So what changed?

Which part of the following did I agree with last week?

"I am seeing a lot of people saying the current amount of late night kickoffs are a reason to move to the Big 12. That won't improve most likely in football by moving.

Yes the number of late night tipoff will go down. But kickoff times for home games and some road games will actually get worse."

I mean in what world do kickoff times for home games and some road games actually get worse for us, especially when you admit the number or late night tipoffs will go down?

I didn't agree with a single damn word there of yours. What the hell are you smoking?

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:25 am**

I remember when we had bumper stickers that said, “back the cats, WAC to PAC”

I am thinking about getting one that says,
“BAck the cats and let’s go Big”

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:31 am**

AzCatFan2 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:22 am The BIG 12 TV contract is worth $31.8 million per school. By all media leaks, the PAC will land somewhere between $34 and $36 million per school. There is an elevator clause in the BIG 12, and if Oregon and UW goes, it would likely be enacted. But even if that's an additional $5 million per school, that's only $2 to $3 million more for UO and UW. Does this even cover the additional travel costs for these schools? Remember, it's not just football, but all sports that would have to travel more. If the B1G offer UW and OU $40 million more a year, travel costs are moot. But $3 million more a year, travel costs are pertinent.

This assertation ONLY washes IF no further expansion occurs within the PAC. Expansion is something that GK has already gone on record stating would occur, so recalculate school payout. Once those expansion schools are added to the conference contract waters down to 28 to 30 million per school (at best). This is LESS than the XII schools.

By staying in the PAC this round, we will make more money. It's unlikely we'd enact the elevator clause by going to the BIG 12, and I'd rather make a few million more a year by staying in the PAC through this round of contract negotiations.

See my response above...As you say, more money is more money. PAC is NOT going to get more than XII.

And it's not just for personal reasons. More money is more money.

Bullshit. You have already cornered yourself on this one.

We also have more alumni and get more students from other PAC areas versus BIG 12 areas, which leads to more alumni donations and more out of state student enrollments. Which also means more money for the school overall.

Unless you have taken a census of every alum that has ever stepped on campus, you have no clue what the hell you are talking about. I live in Texas and I run into Arizona alum EVERYTIME I step out and go somewhere. Especially when I am in school garb. As for where students are coming from, you really seem to have a very myopic view on how far the universities reach is when it comes to acceptance/admittance. You seriously need to get out and explore areas other than the west coast.

As far as TV eyeballs, Arizona football is a Tier 3 property most weeks. Does anyone honestly think an Arizona football game is getting prime TV spots on ESPN competing against the SEC, ACC, and other BIG 12 schools? How about FOX, with the B1G and BIG 12? And let's remember, these large networks also have pro sports contracts, so they are obligated to show things like MLB playoff games which happen during football season. Tier 3 BIG 12 will be no better than what we have today, which is Tier 3 PAC, which is the PAC-12 Network. At least with Amazon, most households will have PAC-12 Network access. And hopefully Amazon adds to their DirecTv agreement and puts PAC sports on the same feed as TNF, which means PAC-12 Network games in sports bars.

Simple answer to this is yes. Arizona will get prime TV spots just because of their opponents. If Arizona continues on it's upward improvement trend then they definitely will command prime TV spots whichever conference they are in. I tend to think that they would garner more looks in the XII just because of the level of competition. XII football is far more competitive than PAC football. There is much more parody up and down the XII than there is in the PAC. Every game is a fight. You don't and won't ever get that in the PAC.

As for men's basketball, once UCLA is gone, we will be the PAC flagbearers along with Oregon. Put is in the BIG 12, yes, there are more big match-ups. But that means more BIG 12 games ESPN can choose from for their Tier 1 games on ABC and on the family of networks. Stay in the PAC, and ESPN will be contractually obligated to show a number of PAC men's basketball games on ABC, ESPN, and ESPN 2. Once UCLA is gone, who draws more TV eyeballs during basketball season in the PAC than Arizona?

Arizona is a a basketball school plain and simple. If they are playing someone of significance in the world of college basketball they are going to get air time regardless of the conference or contractual obligation. Your thought process on basketball is simply just flawed.

A short term contract with ESPN holding T1 rights, and a streaming service like Amazon with the rest that makes more money than the BIG 12 TV contract is in our best interest right now. We make more money, stay with schools that are a better geo fit for our alumni and students, and don't lose much, if any brand equity from tv appearances. In fact, gambling with Amazon, we might actually gain some? Only time will tell.

Not going here anymore as you know damn good and well that Amazon limits exposure for the athletic programs. Maybe in 10 or 12 years when Amazon has built their sports viewership, but not now. Arizona deserves better than a friggin startup sports broadcaster. Too much risk and not enough reward to even warrant a sniff and GK is a moron for even looking in their direction.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:42 am**

AzCatFan2 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:47 am As for being battle tested in basketball, does it hurt Gonzaga to be in the WCC?

Yes

Are they complaining their conference competition is subpar?

Yes.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:01 pm**

Here's where U of A students come from. Note, we get more students from Washington than we do Texas. And outside of Arizona, California sends more students to UA than any other state, by far (https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges ... rsity.html)

Here's UA Alumni chapters. There are several in TX, but the none Oklahoma, and the one listed for Kansas is the Kansas City club (which probably has more Missouri residents than Kansas residents). All current PAC states are represented (https://arizonaalumni.com/stay-connected/chapters)

I would also imagine the media leaks for the PAC-12 media package numbers would include if the conference decides to add any members, like SDSU. The numbers have been on a per school basis, not total package numbers. Canzano said between $34 and $36 million per team, and did not mention any total numbers. If this is based on total package/10, and it actually total package/11 or 12, than this is poor reporting on Canzano's part. So far, he's been more accurate than not, so I'd imagine his reporting includes any/all PAC additions. I have seen numbers as high as $38 to $40 million per school, but they might not be including a 11th and/or 12th PAC member. I'd honestly be shocked if the PAC TV contract isn't bigger than the BIG 12.

And while some here think going with Amazon is foolish, fortune often favors the bold. We could do what we have been doing with ESPN and FOX, and continue to get the same results. Or, the PAC can try and be trailblazers. Maybe we flame out? Maybe we strike gold? Who knows. But if the contract is short term and expires by 2030, we won't be stuck in it for long. By this time, we'll know if the B1G decides to kill the PAC by taking UO and UW. At which point, the BIG 12 is clearly our best option, and ACC teams will still be stuck in their current contract for another 4 years. Or maybe, streaming is a hit, UO and UW like an easier path to the playoffs, and the PAC survives another round?

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:03 pm**

Battered spouse syndrome is apparently a thing when it comes to conference alignment.

“But the Pac10 loves me!”

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:18 pm**

Sports Business Journal on the recent BIG 12 deal and upcoming PAC Deal (https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/S ... 10/31.aspx)

Basically the BIG 12 were still locked in to negotiating with ESPN and FOX only. PAC has more flexibility, and adding Amazon, Apple and Warner Bros will help drive the PAC's price up. ESPN won't pay the BIG 12 more money than the ACC, and won't want to pay the PAC more money either. Expect the ESPN Tier 1 portion of the PAC to look similar to Tier 1 portion of the BIG 12. The difference is, we can hopefully get Amazon to pay more for Tier 2/3 than the BIG 12 got for their Tier 2 rights.

Also, there will be no more Tier 3 rights for the BIG 12. So games not on ABC, Fox, or a cable version of these channels will likely be on ESPN+ only. Not confirmed, but just a guess on my part. But there are only so many channels that can televise live games, and a lot more games than channels, especially when ESPN has the SEC and ACC contracts, and FOX has the B1G contract too.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:21 pm**

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:27 pm**

Bill Walton's comments on the proposed UCLA conference change:

“UCLA’S WRONG TURN”

All progress requires change… not all change is progress,

I’m Bill Walton,

I’m a California native, resident, engaged citizen, voter, and taxpayer,

I’m a product of California’s terrific public school systems,

I’m a proud UCLA alum,

I am not in favor of UCLA’s recent announced decision to leave the Pac-12 Conference of Champions,

nor their desire to join the Big 10,

I don’t like this attempted move,

I don’t support it,

I hope it does not happen,

UCLA is a public school that is supposed to serve the interests of the State of California,

UCLA is one of the world’s greatest schools, and brands,

UCLA represents the best of what life has been, and can, could and should be,

UCLA has been as great and as important a part of my life as anything, ever,

I don’t believe that joining the Big 10 is in the best interest of UCLA, its students, its athletes, its alumni, its fans, the rest of the UC system, the State of California, or the world at large,

some of the many reasons why I am opposed to UCLA’s attempted move to the Big 10 are, in no particular order,

• the negative impact on the health, both physical and mental, of UCLA’s student-athletes,

the exponential increase in travel on UCLA’s student-athletes will hurt them physically, mentally, and in their overall lives,

• the negative impact of the excessive travel will extend to families, friends, fans, alumni and everyone else,

• the increased costs of joining the Big 10 will negate the projected increased revenue assumptions of this proposed move,

• this proposed move to the Big 10 is contrary to UCLA’s and the entire UC System’s stated and professed environmental sustainability goals,

• this proposed move to the Big 10 has serious negative implications and ramifications for the University of California, Berkeley,

and flies in the face of the supposed team concept that has always been a part of the California Dream, plan and business model,

• this proposed move to the Big 10, is all about football, and money,

• what about all the other 24 sports and 600+student-athletes at UCLA, who are responsible for 99+% of UCLA’s National Championships,

• how many of these “others” are represented and willing participants in this proposed deal,

I went to UCLA — gladly, willingly, and proudly,

it was my dream,

that dream never included the Big 10,

I have spoken to no one, other than the highest-level directors of athletics at UCLA, who think that this proposed move to the Big 10 is a good idea,

every argument made by these senior AD’s and why they like it, is about money,

these same proponents of moving to the Big 10, are the first people I have ever encountered in my life,

who have claimed economic hardship and limitations in Los Angeles,

and that the solution lies in the Midwest,

I have made my feelings known, privately, to the powers that be in the State of California, including the UC’s Board of Regents,

my hope and dream is that this proposed move by UCLA, my alma mater, will be rescinded,

Bill Walton,

UCLA 1974

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:36 pm**

Irish27 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:21 pm

A Bill Walton article makes for a newsy day. It's time to stop paying attention to Wilner lol.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:37 pm**

azgreg wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:42 am
AzCatFan2 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:47 am As for being battle tested in basketball, does it hurt Gonzaga to be in the WCC?
Yes

Are they complaining their conference competition is subpar?
Yes.

Gonzaga is literally considering joining the Big East for this very reason. Travel would be insane, but they have aspirations.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:41 pm**

ChooChooCat wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:36 pm
Irish27 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:21 pm

A Bill Walton article makes for a newsy day. It's time to stop paying attention to Wilner lol.

Canzano is the one who did the Bill Walton piece. He hinted at it yesterday. He never suggested it was major like some of his haters say.

Wilner is a weirdo but he usually does good work. I imagine there is something brewing besides this Walton piece that his podcast co-host had

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:44 pm**

This is like a car crash...I should look away but I can't.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:44 pm**

PHXCATS wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:41 pm
ChooChooCat wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:36 pm
Irish27 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:21 pm

A Bill Walton article makes for a newsy day. It's time to stop paying attention to Wilner lol.
Canzano is the one who did the Bill Walton piece. He hinted at it yesterday. He never suggested it was major like some of his haters say.

Wilner is a weirdo but he usually does good work. I imagine there is something brewing besides this Walton piece that his podcast co-host had

Walton is on Wilner/Canzano's podcast. The Walton interview is what he was talking about with that tweet.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:48 pm**

See.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:53 pm**

ChooChooCat wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:48 pm See.

Ok cool. I still imagine there is more brewing

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:54 pm**

AzCatFan2 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:22 am By all media leaks, the PAC will land somewhere between $34 and $36 million per school.

Who says, George Kliavkoff?

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:04 pm**

First of all, this is not a shock that Mr. Conference of Champions has this viewpoint. Cuts into his schtick.

Second, Bill Walton has no influence as to what UCLA or any other Pac 12 school will do.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:05 pm**

Merkin wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:54 pm
AzCatFan2 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:22 am By all media leaks, the PAC will land somewhere between $34 and $36 million per school.

Who says, George Kliavkoff?

The Sports Business Journal Link for one. The Canzaro piece for another. And frankly, the PAC should get more. We have schools like UO and UW that are worth more than anything in the BIG 12, have as many major media markets, and as much as we hate the 4th window, we have 10 teams that can host games during this time slot, versus the BIG 12 with only 1 (BYU). Canzaro seems to be plugged into good sources, and he stated between $34 and $36 million per team when all is said and done.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 1:42 pm**

34-36 including Amazon who gets the production value of the PAC network? If so that is a fail to me. Streaming oblivion but at least we should get better start times there as they don’t care when it starts.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 2:27 pm**

CardiacCats97 wrote: Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:03 pm Battered spouse syndrome is apparently a thing when it comes to conference alignment.

“But the Pac10 loves me!”

LMAO I keep re-reading this trying to get past it and I can't. It just fits and is so true.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 5:18 pm**

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 9:16 pm**

$34-$36 million is pure bullshit in an attempt to make the Pac look like a bigger deal than the Big 12. Going to laugh when the real number is far lower.

Posted: **Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:22 pm**

Reality.

Look, I wish the Pac-12 would work. I wish the LA schools would stay. I wish we'd gotten the Longhorns and Sooners. Hell I have family in the panhandle who are Stillwater alums. I'd have been winning all day with tailgates, sideline passes, the whole thing. I always dug the PAC-10 logos and as a kid who lived in Minneapolis until I was 15, the Pac was 'cool'. Desert Swarm, Lute and guards making plays all over, Jason Kapono hitting treys, Oregon putting Joey Harrington on billboards, Pete Carroll USC teams that would've gotten more NIL money than the Chargers 2022 cap hit. On and on. It was all there to be a superconference- the SEC for real college (and 3 state schools).

But Reality.

We got Michael Crow and Larry Scott.

So it isn't trips to the Bay Area vs Lubbock.

Its Ft. Worth on a real TV station or Thursday night games in Albuquerque with Danny Kannell announcing from a remote feed.

Thats where we are at.

Oregon and UW will play hardball and join the Big 10- and if that doesn't work limp to the Big 12 with Scrooge McDuck pools of cash. Stanford will head to the Big Ten or do some provocative s*** with the Ivys or something weird/forward. Berkley is a mess but is a gorgeous frame from 30 thousand feet- like buying a stately old Hollywood mansion Brando or someone lived in. SDSU isn't AAU but they've done everything right for most of the last 25 years. And I don't think academics mattered- not ever but now the curtains down.

All of those schools- even lowly, former commuter school San Diego State- will get better offers than whatever we are or aren't going to get in the Pac.

The Pac isn't coming back. It sucks, but thats how this ends. We aren't adding Gonzaga, St. Marys, Fresno, Boise, Reno, whoever.

If Arizona gets an offer to the Big 12, you get it in writing and sign the damn thing before anyone leaves the room.

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:34 am**

I don't see the top 3 PAC schools ever joining the BIG 12. Stanford would never join a conference with BYU and Baylor. And for UW and Oregon, the BIG 12 means at best, equal money but more travel, while aligning with schools that don't have as high as academic standards as a CAL and Stanford. For OU and UW, that's a losing proposition.

With the B1G deciding for whatever reason(s) not to send a death blow to the PAC this round by taking UW and OU, UW and OU currently have only two options. Stay in the PAC, or go BIG 12. It should be obvious which direction they are headed. The PAC is likely to survive this round, and with a contract that according to Canzaro will be larger, per school, than the BIG 12. Canzaro could be wrong, but he's well connected in both Eugene and Seattle, and I find it unlikely Canzaro's sources would be so far off from the $34 to $36 million per school mark.

Staying with the PAC for this round gives us more options, and most likely more money. Assuming our contract ends like the BIG 12 in 2030, come 2030, if the B1G kills the PAC by taking Oregon and UW, the BIG 12 will then be our best option. But maybe Oregon and UW like having easier access to the playoffs? Maybe UCLA reconsiders their move? Maybe the SEC/ESPN wants to be a coast-to-coast conference, and UW and Oregon still harbor anger against USC, and we get included in this move? Who knows.

Staying until 2030 gives us options. And in 2030, the ACC will still have 4 more years on their contract. Staying in the PAC will likely bring us more money too. The exposure difference between the BIG 12 and PAC is TBD, but the risk of being the first conference on a streaming service might bring us rewards? If not, it's only a few years.

Last, if the BIG 12 is stable, it's only because after OK and TX leave, the conference will consist of a bunch of P5 also-rans and G5 schools recently promoted. And yes, I understand Arizona fits the demographic of a P5 also-ran, but if we want to become something more, better to align ourselves with schools that already are. There isn't a single Big 12 school that the SEC or B1G want, except for maybe Kansas. And Kansas would not be in the top 5 wish list for either. If the BIG 12 also-ran conference is our best option in the future, so be it. But until that's the case, we should keep other options open.

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:46 am**

AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:34 am I don't see the top 3 PAC schools ever joining the BIG 12. Stanford would never join a conference with BYU and Baylor. And for UW and Oregon, the BIG 12 means at best, equal money but more travel, while aligning with schools that don't have as high as academic standards as a CAL and Stanford. For OU and UW, that's a losing proposition.

With the B1G deciding for whatever reason(s) not to send a death blow to the PAC this round by taking UW and OU, UW and OU currently have only two options. Stay in the PAC, or go BIG 12. It should be obvious which direction they are headed. The PAC is likely to survive this round, and with a contract that according to Canzaro will be larger, per school, than the BIG 12. Canzaro could be wrong, but he's well connected in both Eugene and Seattle, and I find it unlikely Canzaro's sources would be so far off from the $34 to $36 million per school mark.

Staying with the PAC for this round gives us more options, and most likely more money. Assuming our contract ends like the BIG 12 in 2030, come 2030, if the B1G kills the PAC by taking Oregon and UW, the BIG 12 will then be our best option. But maybe Oregon and UW like having easier access to the playoffs? Maybe UCLA reconsiders their move? Maybe the SEC/ESPN wants to be a coast-to-coast conference, and UW and Oregon still harbor anger against USC, and we get included in this move? Who knows.

Staying until 2030 gives us options. And in 2030, the ACC will still have 4 more years on their contract. Staying in the PAC will likely bring us more money too. The exposure difference between the BIG 12 and PAC is TBD, but the risk of being the first conference on a streaming service might bring us rewards? If not, it's only a few years.

Last, if the BIG 12 is stable, it's only because after OK and TX leave, the conference will consist of a bunch of P5 also-rans and G5 schools recently promoted. And yes, I understand Arizona fits the demographic of a P5 also-ran, but if we want to become something more, better to align ourselves with schools that already are. There isn't a single Big 12 school that the SEC or B1G want, except for maybe Kansas. And Kansas would not be in the top 5 wish list for either. If the BIG 12 also-ran conference is our best option in the future, so be it. But until that's the case, we should keep other options open.

Your argument is completely illogical, and frankly, ridiculous.

UW/UO are going to go wherever they can get the most money......PERIOD. Academics and appearances are not going to influence the NW schools, $$$$$$$$$ will.

And if that ends up being the Big12 then they will take slots that, for the moment, are open to the UA. If we stand pat, we may end up in a conference with Oregon State, WSU and the MWC remnants.

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:14 am**

Maybe UCLA reconsiders?
Maybe the SEC takes us along with Oregon/UW?

Are you high?

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:27 am**

CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:14 am Maybe UCLA reconsiders?

UCLA won't reconsider by choice no matter what stoner alumni say, but GK is trying to convince the regents to change the 1991 ruling where campus presidents can make their own contracts without regent approval.

https://www.si.com/college/ucla/news/pa ... to-big-ten

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:32 am**

dmjcat wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:46 am
AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:34 am I don't see the top 3 PAC schools ever joining the BIG 12. Stanford would never join a conference with BYU and Baylor. And for UW and Oregon, the BIG 12 means at best, equal money but more travel, while aligning with schools that don't have as high as academic standards as a CAL and Stanford. For OU and UW, that's a losing proposition.

With the B1G deciding for whatever reason(s) not to send a death blow to the PAC this round by taking UW and OU, UW and OU currently have only two options. Stay in the PAC, or go BIG 12. It should be obvious which direction they are headed. The PAC is likely to survive this round, and with a contract that according to Canzaro will be larger, per school, than the BIG 12. Canzaro could be wrong, but he's well connected in both Eugene and Seattle, and I find it unlikely Canzaro's sources would be so far off from the $34 to $36 million per school mark.

Staying with the PAC for this round gives us more options, and most likely more money. Assuming our contract ends like the BIG 12 in 2030, come 2030, if the B1G kills the PAC by taking Oregon and UW, the BIG 12 will then be our best option. But maybe Oregon and UW like having easier access to the playoffs? Maybe UCLA reconsiders their move? Maybe the SEC/ESPN wants to be a coast-to-coast conference, and UW and Oregon still harbor anger against USC, and we get included in this move? Who knows.

Staying until 2030 gives us options. And in 2030, the ACC will still have 4 more years on their contract. Staying in the PAC will likely bring us more money too. The exposure difference between the BIG 12 and PAC is TBD, but the risk of being the first conference on a streaming service might bring us rewards? If not, it's only a few years.

Last, if the BIG 12 is stable, it's only because after OK and TX leave, the conference will consist of a bunch of P5 also-rans and G5 schools recently promoted. And yes, I understand Arizona fits the demographic of a P5 also-ran, but if we want to become something more, better to align ourselves with schools that already are. There isn't a single Big 12 school that the SEC or B1G want, except for maybe Kansas. And Kansas would not be in the top 5 wish list for either. If the BIG 12 also-ran conference is our best option in the future, so be it. But until that's the case, we should keep other options open.
Your argument is completely illogical, and frankly, ridiculous.

UW/UO are going to go wherever they can get the most money......PERIOD. Academics and appearances are not going to influence the NW schools, $$$$$$$$$ will.

And if that ends up being the Big12 then they will take slots that, for the moment, are open to the UA. If we stand pat, we may end up in a conference with Oregon State, WSU and the MWC remnants.

UW and Oregon have ivory towers. Not as big as CAL or Stanford's, but still quite large. UW didn't want to let ASu into the conference back in 1978 because of academic reasons. It's not the defining factor that would keep UW and OU out of the BIG 12 like it is for Stanford and CAL. But academics are a consideration for these schools. Always have been.

And if it's just about money, if Oregon and UW thought the BIG 12 could bring them significantly more, they would have left the PAC already. The BIG 12 put their stake in the ground with their contract. By all media outlet reports, the PAC contract will be larger. Not significantly, but still, more money. Could be wrong, but again, what reason do we have to doubt a guy like Canzaro, who has proven himself to be well connected with the PNW schools? And if the money between the PAC and BIG 12 are about even, then why would the PNW schools move? In the end, for those schools, travel costs would mean being in the BIG 12 would actually mean less money. Not as much a concern for the 4-corner schools, but last I looked, there's a lot of land between Tucson and Seattle.

The fear that Oregon and UW will bolt for the BIG 12 is illogical and frankly, ridiculous. Oregon and UW have already thumbed their noses at the BIG 12, and Phil Knight has had back-channel conversations with the SEC and the B1G. There have been zero reports that Knight has done nothing but laugh at the BIG 12. At best, for the PNW, it's a lateral move that will likely not bring in significantly more money, if any. And in the end, make the ivory tower types at these schools scoff at who they are aligned with. Just another nail in the coffin that kills any UO and UW move to the BIG 12. It's not happening, unless the PAC negotiations go completely off the rails. Which again, by all media reports, isn't happening either.

Oregon and UW would be welcomed into the BIG 12 immediately if these two PNW schools wanted in. To date, they have showed zero interest in the BIG 12, and full interest that if a B1G or SEC invite isn't on its way to stay in the PAC. If the BIG 12 could pay UO and UW B1G money, different story. But if that were true, I'd be advocating for a BIG12 move myself.

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:17 pm**

Gonzaga is going to beat us to the punch in joining the Big 12

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:20 pm**

Alieberman wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:17 pm Gonzaga is going to beat us to the punch in joining the Big 12

We should already have one foot out the door to the Big12. Instead we’ll be shutting out the lights on the PAC-6 when the MWC decides to give us a mercy invite.

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:52 pm**

Alieberman wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:17 pm Gonzaga is going to beat us to the punch in joining the Big 12

The Big-12's pro rata deal only includes P5 teams.

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:17 pm**

So we're looking for a travel partner for the Big 12, Gonzaga is exploring joining... why don't we team up and get it done?

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:19 pm**

AZCatGirl wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:17 pm So we're looking for a travel partner for the Big 12, Gonzaga is exploring joining... why don't we team up and get it done?

Anything that gets us out of this abusive relationship, I’m on board.

Posted: **Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:48 pm**

I don’t see how anyone wants to stay in the Pac. Fuckk the Pac 10/12 I am sick of this pos conference. Even though I have the same nostalgia we all do, that shit is over. We should already be signing a Big12 deal. Big12 basketball with AZ and Zags would be amazing and football would be just as solid as the PAC if not better.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:36 am**

Does Gonzaga have a football team?

If not, package a deal with Gonzaga Basketball and Boise State Football.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:37 am**

I doubt BSU would be cool with having their football team be in a different conference than the rest of their sports.

Maybe Gonzaga will start to field a football team if they can get money up front to do so. Didn’t UConn do that?

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:44 am**

CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:37 am I doubt BSU would be cool with having their football team be in a different conference than the rest of their sports.

Maybe Gonzaga will start to field a football team if they can get money up front to do so. Didn’t UConn do that?

Boise actually had that arrangement set up when their football was leaving for the Big East, before it fractured. They were set to move their non-football sports ironically enough to the WCC.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:51 am**

Notre Dame also keeps their football program as an independent while the other sports are in the ACC.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:05 am**

Merkin wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:51 am Notre Dame also keeps their football program as an independent while the other sports are in the ACC.

ND football is and will always be an extreme outlier to this debate.

There is no equal comparison as no other single football entity can warrant an exclusive TV contract.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 12:13 pm**

ChooChooCat wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:44 am
CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:37 am I doubt BSU would be cool with having their football team be in a different conference than the rest of their sports.

Maybe Gonzaga will start to field a football team if they can get money up front to do so. Didn’t UConn do that?
Boise actually had that arrangement set up when their football was leaving for the Big East, before it fractured. They were set to move their non-football sports ironically enough to the WCC.

Ah thanks. I had forgotten about that.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 2:29 pm**

ChooChooCat wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:44 am
CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:37 am I doubt BSU would be cool with having their football team be in a different conference than the rest of their sports.

Maybe Gonzaga will start to field a football team if they can get money up front to do so. Didn’t UConn do that?
Boise actually had that arrangement set up when their football was leaving for the Big East, before it fractured. They were set to move their non-football sports ironically enough to the WCC.

Also, IIRC, their wrestling team used to be in the PAC-12.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:32 pm**

Cal Poly SLO wrestles in the PAC-12. Same with Bakersfield and Little Rock. Just not enough schools in the PAC with wrestling programs due to Title IX and other reasons.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:35 pm**

Gonzaga to the PAC would never happen because the Washington schools are too jealous and the Bay Area schools would shun any religious school. So in other words the Big 12 will benefit and we will remain tortured in this shit conference.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:25 pm**

Boy I’d love to flip back and forth between the World Series and the Eagles/Texans game but TNF is on Amazon.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:10 pm**

ChooChooCat wrote: Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:35 pm Gonzaga to the PAC would never happen because the Washington schools are too jealous and the Bay Area schools would shun any religious school. So in other words the Big 12 will benefit and we will remain tortured in this shit conference.

Yep. We have to embrace the "new" reality. Academics be damned. Athletics is a "separate entity" when it comes to finances.

Posted: **Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:15 pm**

Just another dreadful decision in a long line of mistakes but hey, let’s stick around and wallow in the mud with them

Bear Down Wildcats

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