Bear Down Wildcats

rgdeuce wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.

His footwork is pretty amazing.

I'm convinced that Deandre came out of the womb and immediately stepped into a midrange jumper with perfect footwork.

It's probably the soccer background (see Hakeem).

A lot shorter, but Steve Nash was a big soccer player in Canada. Sports outside of basketball seem to help many of these athletes, see Budinger and Jud Buechler in volleyball where jump timing is extremely important.

Merkin wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.

His footwork is pretty amazing.

I'm convinced that Deandre came out of the womb and immediately stepped into a midrange jumper with perfect footwork.

It's probably the soccer background (see Hakeem).

A lot shorter, but Steve Nash was a big soccer player in Canada. Sports outside of basketball seem to help many of these athletes, see Budinger and Jud Buechler in volleyball where jump timing is extremely important.

Didn't name him because of the obvious size disparity and him not being a drastic outlier from other point guards in terms of what he did with his feet, but you are 100 percent correct. To take it a step further, I'm sure the field vision one needs to be a successful soccer player certainly correlated, as well as other things like pace/tempo, setting defenses up, teamwork, attacking, probing, patience, etc. Goes for most sports if you think about it. I had high school teammates who only wrestled in the winter because they were going to be in top notch condition for the spring baseball season. It was encouraged, and you see a lot of football guys move over to track in the spring.

I agree strongly that multiple sports create a synergistic effect. That is why I was so disappointed with our two centers who were good high school high jumpers. I forget their names, but one couldn't beat out the younger Albuquerque guy (AJ Bramlett) and he dated a big shot's daughter. He did help us win a few big games, but wasn't consistent. The other was very likable except for his DUI and had a growth spurt from PG to Center in high school. Neither one lived up to my expectations. My fave cross-overs are soccer, rugby and volleyball. However, I didn't like anything better than watching my ex Oakland Raider tight end buddy play power forward in the Tucson Senior Olympics. The ex tennis pro was a good hoops player too, but I'd expect soccer and volleyball to have the most carry-over value.

A lot of season left, but nothing so far makes me think that this team has anything, at best, than another one of Sean Elite Eight Miller's typical post seasons coming up.

In fact, I think Elite Eight is the high ceiling for this team.

The only tweak needed is for Miller to draw up some more plays for Ristic.

Longhorned wrote:The only tweak needed is for Miller to draw up some more plays for Ristic.

There ya go. Sounds like a winning strategy to me.

Maybe we could test it out in some tough road environment?

PieceOfMeat wrote:A lot of season left, but nothing so far makes me think that this team has anything, at best, than another one of Sean Elite Eight Miller's typical post seasons coming up.

In fact, I think Elite Eight is the high ceiling for this team.

4 of the main rotation guys on this team are almost always black holes, Ristic, Smith, PJC (unless he plays a mid major or another 5'8 pg like the Utah player) and Randolph.

Hell even Rawle and Trier just make terrible decisions and completely disappear at times

I see a lot of PAC12 road splits the rest of the season. The Oregon trip will be particularly tough as both UO and OSU can play the zone competently and have perimeter guards who can play defense and penetrate. The Bay trip will be our best chance for a sweep.

I'm thinking we are a 7-8 loss 5 or 6 seed with a Sweet 16 ceiling.

Miller as a coach is really overrated. Every team knows to play zone and you have a good chance of beating us. No excuses about the start time because this Colorado team is trash. POM is right, we'd be lucky to make the EE.

TatetheGreat wrote:Miller as a coach is really overrated. Every team knows to play zone and you have a good chance of beating us. No excuses about the start time because this Colorado team is trash. POM is right, we'd be lucky to make the EE.

I didn’t have any issue with how we attacked the zone. It led to uncontested 3s and bunnies that we missed. It didn’t matter how far away the looks were, the majority of them were missed today.

ETA we could have been much more aggressive earlier. That didn’t happen until it looked like he ripped Trier half way through the first half after he settled for a deep three instead of driving through the massive lane that opened up.

Too many major holes on this team. All of the freshmen (sans ayton) are far behind schedule and we need at least two to play some really important minutes. If this team ever gets into a high-foul slugfest in the tournament, it will be a crapshoot in any round, especially if we aren't a super high seed. Major concerns with Ristic and our point guard play.

Despite his shooting numbers, PJC is too one dimensional and easy to defend. I know it wont happen, but at some point, if PJC doesn't start showing that he can get a mid-range floater or a pull up jumper to go in (he rarely even attempts, it may possibly be time to take a long look at maximizing each of your players and what your team strengths are. Cut Ristic's minutes, go small, run. PJC is at his best when the tempo raises, id actually call him a "good" college point guard when tempo is up. In any tempo lower than that, id consider him to be an "average" point guard, and depending on who his man is that night, even worse. The freshmen (sans Ayton) arent there and may never get there this season. They can run and they can finish and wont kill us at the foul line. Same with Smith, because you dont know what you are getting from him on any given night. You maximize a guy like Pinder too. .

With all these holes, we have to figure out how to make Lebron, Wade and Bosh work. This is a 3-man super team, with everything around it being multiple levels below. Still plenty of ball left, but at minimum these guys got to start gelling because they may well be carrying us the whole way.

Frybry02 wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:Miller as a coach is really overrated. Every team knows to play zone and you have a good chance of beating us. No excuses about the start time because this Colorado team is trash. POM is right, we'd be lucky to make the EE.

I didn’t have any issue with how we attacked the zone. It lead to uncontested 3s and bunnies that we missed. It didn’t matter how far away the looks were, the majority of them were missed today.

Yeah we left far too many points on the floor. And thats even without contemplating the open 3s.

Miller needs to develop a fucking quality bench player already. I get why he stuck with Ristic as late as he did today and it's because he has nobody on that bench that is remotely trustworthy. That is unacceptable at this point.

We had trouble breaking down the zone to start the game and that set the tone for the first half. We came out cold and stayed that way until the beginning of the second half. No clue why Miller kept Dusan out there. He was missing gimme buckets left and right and his slow-ass, reactionary defense never plays well. I won't miss these soft upperclassmen. Miller needs to recruit players who fit his system if he refuses to innovate.

ChooChooCat wrote:Miller needs to develop a fucking quality bench player already. I get why he stuck with Ristic as late as he did today and it's because he has nobody on that bench that is remotely trustworthy. That is unacceptable at this point.

Players don’t get better playing under Miller.

This team would be absolute garbage without Ayton and is going to be a train wreck next year with these returning players and no Ayton, Lauri or Gordon coming in to bail Sean out again.

Honestly remember this game well guys, our loss in the NCAA tournament will be a replay of this game.

ChooChooCat wrote:Honestly remember this game well guys, our loss in the NCAA tournament will be a replay of this game.

That is exactly how year 9 will end

I guess Miller's now on the hot seat huh?

You guys didn’t actually think we’d go 17-1, did you? There are always a couple unexpected losses in conference. Always. Don’t make this bigger than it is. We’re still in the driver’s seat to win the Pac and earn a decent seed. Losses at this point in the season are lessons in disguise. We’ll be fine.

Beachcat97 wrote:You guys didn’t actually think we’d go 17-1, did you? There are always a couple unexpected losses in conference. Always. Don’t make this bigger than it is. We’re still in the driver’s seat to win the Pac and earn a decent seed. Losses at this point in the season are lessons in disguise. We’ll be fine.

I sure didn't expect Arizona to lose to the worst team in the conference (I don't care what they did this week, they are still by far the worst or at best tied with Wazzu for worst), and have 20 more shot attempts and make 1 less than they did in the process. The ineptitude on display today was impressive to say the least.

Surprise surprise, a zone defense takes down our 'offense' with ease. I didn't even see the Colorado game but the stats have all the hallmarks of a Miller NCAA flameout:

Points in the paint: CU - 32, AZ with Ayton and Ristic - 32
3fg%: vsCU - 28%; vs Utah - 33%
Fast break points: vs CU - 4, vs Utah - 16

Paint Points: Thats something like half the games to date where the other team has tied or outscored our team that features 2 seven footers. Don't blame Ristic or Ayton, this is on Miller's religious devotion to Pack line, where Ayton spends 70% on defense out at the 3pt line because man to man. Ridiculous. Enable Ayton to stay in the paint where he belongs!!!

3fg/fast break points: Again, the response to a zone is "do what we do" don't adjust the offense, just huck lots of threes and try to out-talent them. It works when you make a decent amount of 3s, but not even a generational star like Ayton can out-talent the other team when you shoot under 30%. Against Utah, we compensated the low three percentage with an extraordinary number of fast break buckets somehow (GOOD!). Against CU we were our usual grind it out halfcourt excruciating offense with the usual 4 FB points.

CU is not a good team, do they even have a 4* on the roster? Losses to Ore St, Xavier by 30, Iowa and freaking Univ. San Diego.

Spiff, did you see something different or can you articulate what Miller's strategy is against a zone? Let me guess: its the players fault

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:You guys didn’t actually think we’d go 17-1, did you? There are always a couple unexpected losses in conference. Always. Don’t make this bigger than it is. We’re still in the driver’s seat to win the Pac and earn a decent seed. Losses at this point in the season are lessons in disguise. We’ll be fine.

I sure didn't expect Arizona to lose to the worst team in the conference (I don't care what they did this week, they are still by far the worst or at best tied with Wazzu for worst), and have 20 more shot attempts and make 1 less than they did in the process. The ineptitude on display today was impressive to say the least.

Look around the country, bro. Lots of top ranked teams losing today or struggling more generally. It's early. This team just has to learn from this loss, have a good week of practice, and keep building towards March. This team is not perfect. But you don't have to be perfect to win a championship. You just have to get hot and win six straight. This team can do that.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:You guys didn’t actually think we’d go 17-1, did you? There are always a couple unexpected losses in conference. Always. Don’t make this bigger than it is. We’re still in the driver’s seat to win the Pac and earn a decent seed. Losses at this point in the season are lessons in disguise. We’ll be fine.

I sure didn't expect Arizona to lose to the worst team in the conference (I don't care what they did this week, they are still by far the worst or at best tied with Wazzu for worst), and have 20 more shot attempts and make 1 less than they did in the process. The ineptitude on display today was impressive to say the least.

There's always going to be at least 1-2 games like this in conference play. Honestly I think from top to bottom the Pac 12 is just not a good basketball conference this year. I think 3 teams get in the NCAA tournament and no team will advance beyond the Sweet 16. Obviously there's lot's of basketball to be played. Whoever wins the Pac will have at least 4-5 losses in conference play IMO. It's frustrating for me because the Cats have arguably the best player in the country. Having Ayton against Wisconsin; we win both games. Having him against Xavier we beat them last year. I love CSM but I'm really starting to feel like he doesn't know how to utilize his best players. Also he still hasn't proven he's a good in game coach and has trouble making in game adjustments. Luckily we have Ayton this year but even with him this team's potential is probably the Sweet 16. Playing against average and below average teams until the NCAA tournament will not make the Cats much better for tournament play. I think the Cats will win the Pac 12 but I will be a little surprised if they get beyond the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.

Captain Obvious wrote: I think the Cats will win the Pac 12 but I will be a little surprised if they get beyond the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.

We're getting to the FF. We have Ayton. The rest of the tourney field does not. That's gonna be a handful for just about everyone. If we play above average basketball in the first two rounds, we're comfortably in the S-16. Beyond that, we'll need more from Trier, Rawle, and Deuce. I think our guys will step up this year. Just a feeling I've had since I first saw Ayton in an AZ jersey.

I don't think the end is nigh either, Ayton just didn't do well with the altitude in both games, which hurt him defensively especially. This is a still a young forming team, so when we play in these non-ideal conditions like late night Bahamian ballrooms and hi-altitude short rest road games, they are challenges. Not insurmountable, but we lost, though not sure this one game is a totally accurate barometer. Maybe that's just excuses.

But do agree with above we need to find a way to make the 3 best players dominate and keep the others from plugging things up, with the rest of the team adding in quality contributions every now and then (like a Ristic double double game, PJC good night, or somebody coming off the bench with 15, along with at least an average adequate level of defense. Too bad Akot never blossomed into that defensive stopper role off the bench.

scumdevils86 wrote:I guess Miller's now on the hot seat huh?

Maybe he'll get us to the FF in his contract year of 2022.

Beachcat97 wrote:You guys didn’t actually think we’d go 17-1, did you? There are always a couple unexpected losses in conference. Always. Don’t make this bigger than it is. We’re still in the driver’s seat to win the Pac and earn a decent seed. Losses at this point in the season are lessons in disguise. We’ll be fine.

I agree that we probably still win the PAC12 but doubt we see a decent seed. Here's the conference RPI's as of 1/5

asu 14
UA 16
USC 37
Utah 46
UCLA 56
UW 58
Col 79
UO 111
WSU 125
Cal 171
Stan 179
OSU 184

Given how weak the conference is, and the reasonable probability that we will end up with 4-5 conference losses, there
is NO WAY that we end up with a high seed. A 4/5/6 seed may very well be our ceiling with a potential 2nd round exit being
very possible given the plethora of weaknesses with this team.

Missed a lot of open shots. Missed a lot of points in the paint. CU made contested shots. Miller coached a stinker. These things don't happen every game and UA only lost by 3 on a quick turn around on the road.

Officially nothing to be concerned about yet. U of A wins at least the next six in a row. Book it. Pun unintended.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Captain Obvious wrote: I think the Cats will win the Pac 12 but I will be a little surprised if they get beyond the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.

We're getting to the FF. We have Ayton. The rest of the tourney field does not. That's gonna be a handful for just about everyone. If we play above average basketball in the first two rounds, we're comfortably in the S-16. Beyond that, we'll need more from Trier, Rawle, and Deuce. I think our guys will step up this year. Just a feeling I've had since I first saw Ayton in an AZ jersey.

Ayton is that type of player. With him it seems like the Cats could win it all. It's what's going on around him that concerns me and that includes coaching. I really do love CSM and I believe in him to get us to the FF and beyond eventually. Games like this just happen sometimes. It's just the way it goes. Arizona will have a lot of great games before this season is over and a lot more wins. I just have a bad feeling they'll get to the NCAA tournament and lose in a very similar fashion to the way they lost today.

It's unarguable, or at least extremely close to it, that this is still a team that can get to the final four, even if there is minimal improvement from here on out. That last piece certainly isn't ideal and leaves you as that team everyone says, "I wouldnt be shocked if they lost in the first round, or if they won it all." Very vulnerable and we all know our luck, we need to be winning a fair share of our tourny games by a large margin to minimize the chance of crap luck or a blown call.

ChooChooCat wrote:Honestly remember this game well guys, our loss in the NCAA tournament will be a replay of this game.

"Let's win and vacate."

We need a hustle guy/energy player that is good at basketball. All of the players are pretty low energy players, all the ones that play at least.

Hank of sb wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Honestly remember this game well guys, our loss in the NCAA tournament will be a replay of this game.

"Let's win and vacate."

"Let's willingly shove our own thumbs up our rectums and pretend it'll solve any problem that could possibly come our way."

I really wish Miller would start pressing, when we are behind, sooner.
Seems like we waited until under two minutes today and we ran out of time.

Postmaster wrote:I really wish Miller would start pressing, when we are behind, sooner.
Seems like we waited until under two minutes today and we ran out of time.

We don't have the athletes to press. An aggressive opponent would shred us. And you certainly can't press with Ristic on the floor.

zonagrad wrote:

Postmaster wrote:I really wish Miller would start pressing, when we are behind, sooner.
Seems like we waited until under two minutes today and we ran out of time.

We don't have the athletes to press. An aggressive opponent would shred us. And you certainly can't press with Ristic on the floor.

are you joking? i can't tell. We have a lotto 7'ter who's been compared to a cheetah in and 4/5* blue-chippers at every friggn position and a Sr pg that was 4*

i've heard it all now - cmon man!'

I have to say, i'm really tired after losses like this reading Miller give these post game tirades that shift all the blame to the players "effort and execution". Kinda strange for a guy who made the tagline "A Players Program".

how about explaining why your predictable PackLine D has crap teams outscoring us in the paint while we have a two 7'rs playing side by side?

RiseAndFire wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

Postmaster wrote:I really wish Miller would start pressing, when we are behind, sooner.
Seems like we waited until under two minutes today and we ran out of time.

We don't have the athletes to press. An aggressive opponent would shred us. And you certainly can't press with Ristic on the floor.

are you joking? i can't tell. We have a lotto 7'ter who's been compared to a cheetah in and 4/5* blue-chippers at every friggn position and a Sr pg that was 4*

i've heard it all now - cmon man!'

I have to say, i'm really tired after losses like this reading Miller give these post game tirades that shift all the blame to the players "effort and execution". Kinda strange for a guy who made the tagline "A Players Program".

how about explaining why your predictable PackLine D has crap teams outscoring us in the paint while we have a two 7'rs playing side by side?

You're an idiot who posts the same garbage after every loss. Duke lost to NC State tonight, playing two seven footers side by side. I suppose coach K is an idiot as well because Duke doesn't have a defensive identity. The Dookies are 1-2 in the ACC with losses to Boston College & NC State, two teams that might not make the NCAA tourney.

Arizona's problem is that the best 5 offensive players are not the best 5 defensive players. And Sean Miller is trying to get guys who should be able to play good defense to buy in. And they haven't. Alonzo Trier took 9 shots today and all but one was from 3 point range. He did not get to the foul line. Basically, he did not assert himself in a game where leadership from an upperclassman is essential. Our point guard was O-fer from the field. He did not assert himself either. And our normally reliable 7 footer who makes everything in the paint shot 6-16 from the floor. It's not like he was taking 30 foot jumpers. But go ahead and blame Miller because he is the head coach. The fact is, you don't have an answer to Arizona's problems. Miller challenged his players publicly by going to the media and saying he can't get them to play hard. That's publicly calling them out for lack of effort, togetherness and intensity. It's on them to show up and go hard for 40 minutes. And that didn't happen. Blame Miller. Blame the travel schedule. But R&Fail, you never seem to blame the players.

For the most part we got a lot of open shots against the zone, they just didn't fall. Combine this with our horrendous effort on defense and this is the game you get.

Ristic is usually pretty reliable on offense but he missed so many point blank shots. This was a game where you would really like to sit him since he gives so little on defense, but there is just no one else to go to. The bench players all look lost when they come into the game.

The zone got us again?

How did trier do? How much hero ball did he play?

CalStateTempe wrote:The zone got us again?

How did trier do? How much hero ball did he play?

He didn't play hero ball. We lost because Miller thought it would be ok to let Ristic take 16 shots, with him missing the majority of them from 2 ft out.

They also played some of the worst defense possible letting CU get an absurd amount of open looks.

PHXCATS wrote:Missed a lot of open shots. Missed a lot of points in the paint. CU made contested shots. Miller coached a stinker. These things don't happen every game and UA only lost by 3 on a quick turn around on the road.

Officially nothing to be concerned about yet. U of A wins at least the next six in a row. Book it. Pun unintended.

Well this post didn't age well after seeing Miller's comments

Dosia wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:The zone got us again?

How did trier do? How much hero ball did he play?

He didn't play hero ball. We lost because Miller thought it would be ok to let Ristic take 16 shots, with him missing the majority of them from 2 ft out.

They also played some of the worst defense possible letting CU get an absurd amount of open looks.

Ristic was definitely bad in this game but who would you replace him with? All other options are just as bad. At least Ristic pulled down 11 rebounds (next closest guy had 5). I also highly doubt Miller was saying get the ball to Ristic specifically. Pretty sure he just wanted to get the ball inside because we couldn't hit outside shots either.

DrWildcat wrote:

Dosia wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:The zone got us again?

How did trier do? How much hero ball did he play?

He didn't play hero ball. We lost because Miller thought it would be ok to let Ristic take 16 shots, with him missing the majority of them from 2 ft out.

They also played some of the worst defense possible letting CU get an absurd amount of open looks.

Ristic was definitely bad in this game but who would you replace him with? All other options are just as bad. At least Ristic pulled down 11 rebounds (next closest guy had 5). I also highly doubt Miller was saying get the ball to Ristic specifically. Pretty sure he just wanted to get the ball inside because we couldn't hit outside shots either.

I'd have Ayton at the 5 and get Randolph more minutes. While Randolph's D has been trash so has Dusans. I'd rather develop a younger guy that has a future on this team.

Dosia wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:

Dosia wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:The zone got us again?

How did trier do? How much hero ball did he play?

He didn't play hero ball. We lost because Miller thought it would be ok to let Ristic take 16 shots, with him missing the majority of them from 2 ft out.

They also played some of the worst defense possible letting CU get an absurd amount of open looks.

Ristic was definitely bad in this game but who would you replace him with? All other options are just as bad. At least Ristic pulled down 11 rebounds (next closest guy had 5). I also highly doubt Miller was saying get the ball to Ristic specifically. Pretty sure he just wanted to get the ball inside because we couldn't hit outside shots either.

I'd have Ayton at the 5 and get Randolph more minutes. While Randolph's D has been trash so has Dusans. I'd rather develop a younger guy that has a future on this team.

Unfortunately Miller is doing what K has done repeatedly over the years. Which is have a short rotation, not develop your bench, and then complain in March that you have no bench in March. And of course because of that, by the end of the year the team is gassed and tired playing so many minutes.

If Miller says something about the bench in March I'm going to rage.

We do need more bench development and Randolph does seem to be the likely canditate. There should be games that we can win with him playing 20+ minutes. I'd also like to see Akot get all the minutes his knees will take.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the update.

Talk about Dejavu! We hear that every year.

DrWildcat wrote:

Dosia wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:The zone got us again?

How did trier do? How much hero ball did he play?

He didn't play hero ball. We lost because Miller thought it would be ok to let Ristic take 16 shots, with him missing the majority of them from 2 ft out.

They also played some of the worst defense possible letting CU get an absurd amount of open looks.

Ristic was definitely bad in this game but who would you replace him with? All other options are just as bad. At least Ristic pulled down 11 rebounds (next closest guy had 5). I also highly doubt Miller was saying get the ball to Ristic specifically. Pretty sure he just wanted to get the ball inside because we couldn't hit outside shots either.

We shot 28% from 3. I'm pretty sure that was about taking fewer 3's when none of the 3's are going in.

RondaeShimmy wrote:Unfortunately Miller is doing what K has done repeatedly over the years. Which is have a short rotation, not develop your bench, and then complain in March that you have no bench in March. And of course because of that, by the end of the year the team is gassed and tired playing so many minutes.

If Miller says something about the bench in March I'm going to rage.

10 guys got minutes at Utah and 11 at Colorado.