Bear Down Wildcats

That would be great.......and I also think key to our success.

TheCat wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 5:45 pm I'm a little worried about the secondary offense if the running game isn't working. Grind out games are going to be the norm once PAC play begins. They are also what dominates in the post season. Got to get Koloko to rebound as well as he blocks shots.

I don't buy this entirely - we saw Arizona score in transition even after made buckets in the last game. I don't think that will be there on every possession, but the pace we're attempting to play at will allow for easy buckets throughout the year. And simply: not every team in the Pac-12 is going to be good enough offensively to force a grind out game from us.

But of course you're right that there will be games that we'll need to win with scores in the 70's and that will require our half court offense, taking care of the ball, and much better rebounding than we saw last game. Defense that can create some of that running game will also help.

Long way to go - we haven't seen much "continuity" in the ball screen continuity offense that Lloyd is trying to run, but we've seen some really nice growth from R/B to the exhibition to that first game. Very much top of mind for me as we watch this next one tonight is our ability to get three or more levels into the ball screen offense, how we rebound, and if we can continue to defend well.

Hoping to see that improvement against some very light resistance tonight.

The only trouble with teams that are this weak is that they don't put up the resistance required for us to go deeper into the half court offense to get a good shot. We're getting easy buckets from the get-go.

I like our 9 man rotation-

Is Nowell the type of freshmen who will be pissed if he has to sit for the year?

YoDeFoe wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:54 am The only trouble with teams that are this weak is that they don't put up the resistance required for us to go deeper into the half court offense to get a good shot. We're getting easy buckets from the get-go.

This was prophetic. The Vaqueros put up some real matador defense last night. Their best play was taking a cheap shot as Arizona players blew past them.

Thankfully, North Dakota St. will be a step up in competition. Which tells you a lot about the teams we’ve played so far (they have a win at Cal Poly), but unless I’m reading their schedule wrong, they’re playing in Vegas the night before our game after playing in San Louis Obispo last night. Might make for some tired legs.

I might have to stream that Wichita State/South Alabama game today. WSU will be our first real test but they looked like shit in their first game.

Chicat wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:03 am
I might have to stream that Wichita State/South Alabama game today. WSU will be our first real test but they looked like shit in their first game.

Yeah. This isn't as strong a WSU team as they've had in recent years. Still, they're a solid program, and I expect them to be a tough opponent.

I caught the game late and after a handful of cocktails due to a work event last night, but my fuzzy recollections:

Benn looks like a fish out of water. Dalen looks like a bird finally being allowed to fly instead of being asked to walk. I (and others) talked in the preseason about how we expected basically this result because of the new offense - how it provides Dalen with the ball handling opportunities he needs and that Benn is going to have to figure it out more. But I don't think any of us expected it to be this stark in either direction. I guess all I can say is that we'll be one heck of a tough out when Benn gets in his groove (he will... get in his groove, right?).

The other note I came away with is that there are a couple of bromances going on in this team and I love them. Kerr and Pelle are like brothers - Kerr gives Pelle a ton of praise and chatter to talk him up and they just seem to feed off of each other so well. We're in REALLY good hands between to the two of them (patting myself on the back here again for a healthy prediction). And then in the post, Zu and Koloko! Didn't see this one coming but Zu seems to really enjoy Koloko - I woke my wife up laughing last night at just how much Zu gives to Koloko in terms of feeding him in the offense and then giving him energy outside of game action with chest bumps and back slaps. Zu doesn't show a ton of emotion all the time and it's just really heart warming and pleasant to see him appreciate and talk up his brother-in-arms in the post. Again - we're in REALLY good hands there and the chemistry just makes it all the more special.

Also, Dalen. Just wow. The number of times I yelled "DALEN!" last night... I'm just so impressed with his vision and confidence and strength and creativity. He's really using his length and athleticism this year and he just looks like an absolute fucking problem out there. Would love to see more shooting out of him but he's being so efficient and impactful it's darn impressive.

Guys, remind me: is the Vegas thing a mini-tourney, where we play the winner of the other game? Or is it just a single game vs. WSU? Also, if we should lose vs. WSU, do we play the other losing team? Thanks.

Beachcat97 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:53 pm Guys, remind me: is the Vegas thing a mini-tourney, where we play the winner of the other game? Or is it just a single game vs. WSU? Also, if we should lose vs. WSU, do we play the other losing team? Thanks.

Yeah there's a consolation game (on Sunday - same day as the champ game), so we get two games in no matter what.

YoDeFoe wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:59 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:53 pm Guys, remind me: is the Vegas thing a mini-tourney, where we play the winner of the other game? Or is it just a single game vs. WSU? Also, if we should lose vs. WSU, do we play the other losing team? Thanks.

Yeah there's a consolation game (on Sunday - same day as the champ game), so we get two games in no matter what.

Thanks, YDF. Gonna be pretty pumped if we earn a crack at Michigan. Potentially a very big week coming up for our new coach and this young team!

Beachcat97 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:53 pm Guys, remind me: is the Vegas thing a mini-tourney, where we play the winner of the other game? Or is it just a single game vs. WSU? Also, if we should lose vs. WSU, do we play the other losing team? Thanks.

Watching the WSU game. Arizona has no business losing WSU if the expectation is finish top 4 in the pac and be a tournament team. It will be interesting to see how WSU handles our size.

Frybry02 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:10 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:53 pm Guys, remind me: is the Vegas thing a mini-tourney, where we play the winner of the other game? Or is it just a single game vs. WSU? Also, if we should lose vs. WSU, do we play the other losing team? Thanks.

Watching the WSU game. Arizona has no business losing WSU if the expectation is finish top 4 in the pac and be a tournament team. It will be interesting to see how WSU handles our size.

Not looking past WSU, but anyone seen Michigan yet? I know they've got Dickinson back and that freshman Houstan is supposed to be really good. They were within a hair's breadth of reaching the FF last season.

WSU really does not look good at all.

Chicat wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:29 pm WSU really does not look good at all.

Playing some matchup zone and I expect Arizona will see bunch of zone

We should be a 3-5 point favorite over Wichita State on a neutral court.

KaibabKat wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:34 pm We should be a 3-5 point favorite over Wichita State on a neutral court.

That's it? Seems low based on what I'm hearing about WS

Watching Michigan right now- that’s gonna be a tough one for us at this point of the season- they look pretty good.

ralmom22 wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:29 pm Watching Michigan right now- that’s gonna be a tough one for us at this point of the season- they look pretty good.

Yeah. If we do get to play them, I’ll just see it as a wonderful opportunity for this team. I wouldn’t expect a win, but maybe we can make it interesting. I’m sure our guys would be pretty pumped for that game.

I agree with BC. It Walpole be a fun to watch measuring stick game. Good to play top tier competition and playing a top team never hurt anyone’s SOS.

I think it would be fun and if we can keep that game from being a blowout this early into learning Tommy’s system…I think that bodes well for this season moving forward.

Well we have a couple bodies to throw at Dickinson and compete with him for rebounds.

I really hope we get to play them.

We leave for Vegas in 4 days!! We are all super excited for the trip.

i’ll be attending both games in Vegas - haven’t felt this pumped in years!!!

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:11 am Well we have a couple bodies to throw at Dickinson and compete with him for rebounds.

I really hope we get to play them.

We leave for Vegas in 4 days!! We are all super excited for the trip.

Safe travels and have fun, UP! I bet there will be a TON of AZ fans there.

Definitely want to see us match up with Michigan.

Also don't want to overlook NDSU, who we play on Tuesday. They haven't lost yet.

But yeah, hard not to get excited about the possibility of facing UM. Don't think we've played them for a while. I know we beat them once when we had TJM.

KaibabKat wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:34 pm We should be a 3-5 point favorite over Wichita State on a neutral court.

Yeah KenPom and BartTorvik both has us as 3 point favorites over Wichita St. I think we demolish them.

Wichita St. has scored 0.94ppp and 0.97ppp in their two games so far, both against non-tournament teams (one bad, one terrible). Those are abysmal offensive numbers. It's a shockingly (no pun) bad offensive performance given the level of competition and the extremely high minutes continuity for this WSU team (they bring back most of their minutes and production) that won the American and made the tournament last year (though in a COVID shortened schedule). Their star guard Tyson Etienne has played like garbage thus far, so we probably can't rely on that trend to continue but this team doesn't have the talent to stick with us.

Outside of Etienne they love to shoot but have no shooters. Their front court is garbage. We're bigger than them at every position. Assuming our guys are prepared to play under the lights of Las Vegas (and from the looks of it, they're loving the attention of the crowd) we're going to beat this team by double digits.

Yeah, KenPom is still in the early phase where Ken Pomeroy admits it's useless. We on this board are in the early phase where we see the nature in which we've dominated cupcakes suggests promise for how we'll perform against actual competition. I truly believe this Arizona team is very well coached and really good.

The only wrinkle that comes to mind for me is “how will our guys play against a real junkyard team” but our guys were getting clobbered by UTRGV and they just smiled through it and kept on winning.

WSU has been getting their buckets at the rim and at the line, and they haven’t even been efficient in that effort. What happens when they face the third tallest team in the nation?

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:19 am The only wrinkle that comes to mind for me is “how will our guys play against a real junkyard team” but our guys were getting clobbered by UTRGV and they just smiled through it and kept on winning.

WSU has been getting their buckets at the rim and at the line, and they haven’t even been efficient in that effort. What happens when they face the third tallest team in the nation?

Are we seriously the 3rd tallest team in the country? That's crazy.

Loving the confidence beginning to stir in this thread.

Is MASSIVE back?

15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:59 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:19 am The only wrinkle that comes to mind for me is “how will our guys play against a real junkyard team” but our guys were getting clobbered by UTRGV and they just smiled through it and kept on winning.

WSU has been getting their buckets at the rim and at the line, and they haven’t even been efficient in that effort. What happens when they face the third tallest team in the nation?

Are we seriously the 3rd tallest team in the country? That's crazy.

Loving the confidence beginning to stir in this thread.

FSU and Stanford tied for first, Arizona third, USC, Nevada, and Syracuse next. That's according to KenPom.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:59 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:19 am The only wrinkle that comes to mind for me is “how will our guys play against a real junkyard team” but our guys were getting clobbered by UTRGV and they just smiled through it and kept on winning.

WSU has been getting their buckets at the rim and at the line, and they haven’t even been efficient in that effort. What happens when they face the third tallest team in the nation?

Are we seriously the 3rd tallest team in the country? That's crazy.

Loving the confidence beginning to stir in this thread.

Who was the poster at TOS who was obsessed with team height and was always posting metrics about it?

It's always nice to have height, but it does feel like teams are playing smaller, perhaps in following the NBA. Baylor was not a huge team last year. Don't even think Gonzaga was as big as they tend to be. Zags are obviously bigger this year.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm 15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Sagarin has us at 21st in the country now. Massey has us at 9th. Those two algorithms allow for more near term movement based upon performance against expectations than KenPom (41st) who uses the preseason projection until about mid-December before it starts to progressively fall off and the games this year come more into consideration.

Just sharing that as an indication of how well we've done against expectations, even though it's against teams we should be beating.

We held UTRGV to 0.62 points per possession and put up 1.30ppp on them - even better than the 0.74 / 1.16 splits we put up on NAU. Obliterated them.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:43 pm It's always nice to have height, but it does feel like teams are playing smaller, perhaps in following the NBA. Baylor was not a huge team last year. Don't even think Gonzaga was as big as they tend to be. Zags are obviously bigger this year.

Here's the thing though: we're not giving up skill for size with this group. Our smallest guys are Kerr and Kier at 6'3" and 6'4" - our wings are 6'5" to 6'7" with the small wingspan at 6'9". Our "small ball line-up" is something like 6'3" / 6'5" / 6'6" / 6'7" / 6'11" and that's bigger than Baylor's championship starting line-up at every position but it's still our skill group with five guys who can stretch the floor and guys who can switch and have great athleticism and length at every position.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:10 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:43 pm It's always nice to have height, but it does feel like teams are playing smaller, perhaps in following the NBA. Baylor was not a huge team last year. Don't even think Gonzaga was as big as they tend to be. Zags are obviously bigger this year.

Here's the thing though: we're not giving up skill for size with this group. Our smallest guys are Kerr and Kier at 6'3" and 6'4" - our wings are 6'5" to 6'7" with the small wingspan at 6'9". Our "small ball line-up" is something like 6'3" / 6'5" / 6'6" / 6'7" / 6'11" and that's bigger than Baylor's championship starting line-up at every position but it's still our skill group with five guys who can stretch the floor and guys who can switch and have great athleticism and length at every position.

What this says to me, YDF, is that we have a versatile roster, able to be competitive vs. bigger teams or smaller/quicker teams. Having already watched the nation's elite this season (Zaga, Kansas, UCLA, Nova, Michigan, Duke, et al.), I can say that there are probably no fewer than 7 contenders for #1 seeds, which is to say teams that can win it all. We've got some wonderful non-conference games coming up in the next few weeks, which should give a much better sense of the national top tier at this early stage of the season.

Already, though, I'll say that I'd like AZ chances to win a couple games in this year's tourney. Need to get there first, of course! But if we're healthy, we've got the ability to match-up with different styles. Once you're in the S-16, anything can happen.

Michigan will be interesting in that they can match our size on the wings and in the post but we're overwhelmingly bigger in the backcourt.

They start 6'1" / 6'1" / 6'8" / 6'8" / 7'1"
We start 6'3" / 6'6" / 6'7" / 6'11" / 7'1"

Like Arizona, they feature a collection of 6'7" guys they can rotate through and have some good rim protection in their big man rotation.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 1:53 pm Michigan will be interesting in that they can match our size on the wings and in the post but we're overwhelmingly bigger in the backcourt.

They start 6'1" / 6'1" / 6'8" / 6'8" / 7'1"
We start 6'3" / 6'6" / 6'7" / 6'11" / 7'1"

Michigan also has an older, more experienced team than we do. Most of these guys were on their E8 team last season, and they were a couple shots away from the FF.

I'm hoping that if we do play UM we can match their energy early on, keep within striking distance (ie: within 10 points), and just give them a good game. Win or lose, that game could be really important for our team's growth.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm 15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Not to be a downer, but you do realize that we got 26 votes in the poll last week? So they ain't "startin to notice" quite yet.

gronk4heisman wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm 15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Not to be a downer, but you do realize that we got 26 votes in the poll last week? So they ain't "startin to notice" quite yet.

I actually didn't notice that, no, so fair point.

That makes me think most of the voters didn't even watch AZ this past week. My initial impression of this team is that we'll be better than most expected. Definitely in the running for top 3 in the Pac and a very good shot at a tourney bid. But we can revisit this a week from now, when we'll have a much better sample.

gronk4heisman wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm 15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Not to be a downer, but you do realize that we got 26 votes in the poll last week? So they ain't "startin to notice" quite yet.

Part of what I hate about the preseason stuff is that it can be too sticky too early - "teams need to prove it before we move them up." My preference would be to assume that the preseason stuff is garbage and just take a look at how teams are playing early on.

I think Arizona in particular has it tough this season because of the "new coach, new players" knock which is going to require us to beat a team of consequence. Hopefully we do what we've been doing tomorrow and then light up Las Vegas. Would we whipsaw into the top ten or would folks say "well Michigan lost to an Arizona team outside the top-25, its Michigan who was overrated!"

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:44 pm

gronk4heisman wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm 15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Not to be a downer, but you do realize that we got 26 votes in the poll last week? So they ain't "startin to notice" quite yet.

I actually didn't notice that, no, so fair point.

That makes me think most of the voters didn't even watch AZ this past week. My initial impression of this team is that we'll be better than most expected. Definitely in the running for top 3 in the Pac and a very good shot at a tourney bid. But we can revisit this a week from now, when we'll have a much better sample.

I would be stunned if more than a handful of voters have actually seen us play.

In related news: I really wish there was a replay option in the Pac-12 network. If they're not going to show the game again, why leave it on the shelf instead of letting me view on demand? Frustrating.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:54 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:44 pm

gronk4heisman wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm 15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Not to be a downer, but you do realize that we got 26 votes in the poll last week? So they ain't "startin to notice" quite yet.

I actually didn't notice that, no, so fair point.

That makes me think most of the voters didn't even watch AZ this past week. My initial impression of this team is that we'll be better than most expected. Definitely in the running for top 3 in the Pac and a very good shot at a tourney bid. But we can revisit this a week from now, when we'll have a much better sample.

I would be stunned if more than a handful of voters have actually seen us play.

In related news: I really wish there was a replay option in the Pac-12 network. If they're not going to show the game again, why leave it on the shelf instead of letting me view on demand? Frustrating.

We have to get this Pac-12 network issue fixed. The fact that almost literally no one can see us is fucking ridiculous.

That being said, I bet AP voters haven’t watched more than a handful of games and are going off boxscores, recaps, and highlight packages. Our best opportunity for getting on their radar is the Roman Challenge. We lose to WSU or look real bad against Michigan and our next opportunity to open some eyes will be mid-December.

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:03 pm

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:54 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:44 pm

gronk4heisman wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm 15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Not to be a downer, but you do realize that we got 26 votes in the poll last week? So they ain't "startin to notice" quite yet.

I actually didn't notice that, no, so fair point.

That makes me think most of the voters didn't even watch AZ this past week. My initial impression of this team is that we'll be better than most expected. Definitely in the running for top 3 in the Pac and a very good shot at a tourney bid. But we can revisit this a week from now, when we'll have a much better sample.

I would be stunned if more than a handful of voters have actually seen us play.

In related news: I really wish there was a replay option in the Pac-12 network. If they're not going to show the game again, why leave it on the shelf instead of letting me view on demand? Frustrating.

We have to get this Pac-12 network issue fixed. The fact that almost literally no one can see us is fucking ridiculous.

That being said, I bet AP voters haven’t watched more than a handful of games and are going off boxscores, recaps, and highlight packages. Our best opportunity for getting on their radar is the Roman Challenge. We lose to WSU or look real bad against Michigan and our next opportunity to open some eyes will be mid-December.

How high do you think we'd be rated next Monday if we beat Michigan?

Re: Pac 12 network.
I just heard that the women’s game is only available on via streaming.
National runner up can’t even get on tv.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 4:30 pm How high do you think we'd be rated next Monday if we beat Michigan?

21-24

Down goes Illinois...

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:58 pm Down goes Illinois...

That's a shame

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:44 pm

gronk4heisman wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:09 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 12:25 pm 15 votes in the new AP poll just out. They startin to notice.

Also, should we face Michigan, it'll be vs. the #4 team in the nation.

Not to be a downer, but you do realize that we got 26 votes in the poll last week? So they ain't "startin to notice" quite yet.

I actually didn't notice that, no, so fair point.

That makes me think most of the voters didn't even watch AZ this past week. My initial impression of this team is that we'll be better than most expected. Definitely in the running for top 3 in the Pac and a very good shot at a tourney bid. But we can revisit this a week from now, when we'll have a much better sample.

I think the voters watched but realized we are playing teams in the 300's. We don't know much or anything how this team will respond when pushed. I think us rated in the 30's-40's is where we have demonstrated right now. After we play real competition we will have a bead on how good we are and how good we are coached. I think the style of play so far will be attractive to recruits but only if we win. As always hopeful.

Illinois was playing without Kofi Cockburn due to suspension. I’m sure the voters will keep that in mind.

However their starting PG had 7 TO.

Postmaster wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:24 pm Re: Pac 12 network.
I just heard that the women’s game is only available on via streaming.
National runner up can’t even get on tv.

Our final 4 ceremony that was to honor the girls was really bad. DH looked unprepared and overall just kind of lame.