Pathway to the 2016 Pac 12 title

[UAEebs86]

Honor the process

[Harvey Specter]

You guys can hate on me all you want, I get why fans of Arizona Basketball who would post on an Arizona message board do not agree with me.

If I lived in Tucson and can attend games lives, I would probably feel differently. But I don't so at this point, especially given the past couple years under Miller, I really do not care about the regular season outside of making sure we make the tourney, and working to get as high a side as possible.

How Miller has done coaching this team will be solely determined in the tournament. If we lose in the first round you might be calling Miller and the players a name that rhymes with "Witch".

That is my point, we lose in the first round you can flush the entire season down the drain.

Its not like we can fight for a bye or home court games in the tourney game like other sports. Hell, I almost want a lower seed so we DON'T play in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 at the Honda Center. Ship us out East or to the Midwest.

Do you seek out ways to set expectations that assure more misery than joy? Every football and basketball season is a wasted one without a Rose Bowl or Final 4... it sucks to be you.

You certainly have good reason to fear a Miller-coached team getting bounced in the first round, oh wait... Never mind. It will undoubtedly happen someday - and any fan that calls him something that rhymes with witch will be acting like something that rhymes with runt.

As for other comments... If only all our sports programs had the 'tournement issues' that our basketball program does. Wow.

This program defines excellence. That should be celebrated and appreciated.

Again, I grow up a Lakers fan where the only thing that matters is Banners. The only thing you are judged on as a sports program is winning championships.

I am not even saying I need our teams to win championships but get to the place to be in a position to do so.

Every football season Arizona football does not make a Rose Bowl is a waste of time, I literally believe that every year of Arizona football has been a giant waste of time since we joined the PAC 12. When people think about our program what do they say "Arizona is the only PAC 10 team to never make a Rose Bowl". Any season which does not remove that moniker does nothing to change our program

Every Arizona basketball season which does not end in a Final Four is a waste of time just like every Arizona baseball season which does not end in making a College World Series is a waste of time, same for Softball.

Do I think we lose in the first round this year, no. My point is if we did, all this carrying about winning the PAC 12 in basketball means nothing. If we lose in the second round or sweet 16 it means nothing too especially knowing that this is not a team that builds off each other.

Every year our team is entirely different given how recruiting works which means to me either they make a final four or they don't.

Like most Laker fans, you need to wake up to the current reality that the Showtime era is dead, and so are the dysfunctional yet successful Kobe-Shaq teams. And they have been for a long, long time.

The Lakers are yesteryear's news, much like the Dallas Cowboys. When you look in the mirror, do you see a senior in college?

The Lakers and Cowboys would be better focused on trying to make the playoffs... As opposed to milking achievements that today's college players and stars are not old enough to remember. But nice attempt to live back in the 'glory days'.

If we go back far enough... Army had one helluva football program. Back to back Heisman winners. Anything short of that is failure.

Right.

[Harvey Specter]

Saying the regular season is irrelevant is a measure of how spoiled we are as a fan base. To bubble teams, the regular season is pretty relevant.

It's only because we have ascended to the point that we expect it to be a given that people dare to call the season irrelevant. Talk to UCLA about whether the regular season is irrelevant.

For the love of God we are not spoiled. Arizona fans are spoiled with Arizona Softball. From 1988 through 2001 Arizona basketball fans were spoiled. Since that point HELL NO.

I swear to god that statement that Arizona fans are spoiled Basketball fans makes me want to puke. To be spoiled in college basketball means you make Final Fours or Championships on a regular basis. Duke is spoiled, Kentucky is Spoiled, UNC is Spoiled, Arizona...NO.

Have you guys forgotten our 5 loses in the Elite 8 since 2003. Because thats all any college basketball fan remembers about Arizona right now.

The only thing you have to do in the regular season is make the tournament, after that winning your conference or your conference tourney title is completely and utterly irrelevant in my opinion especially in light of the fact that all these Arizona teams are so different year to year. We never have teams that build off each where you say, watch this team next year or wait two years when all these guys are juniors. Its they better make a final four because half the team will be gone next year.

Making 5 Elite 8's is the equivalent to (or arguably a greater achievement than) making 5 Rose Bowls. But you call it meaningless.

You really are a chode. By your expectations, I am quite sure your career is a complete waste of time...

And making the NCAA tournament , which we take for granted, is a far more impressive accomplishment than making a bowl game, which more teams than not accomplish.

Please, jump off the bandwagon. It's already full.

[EVCat]

300+ teams and a top 8 finish is worthless?

I just don't get that line of thinking. And it has nothing to do with what pro team you choose to cheer for. Independent thought is possible outside of the personal fan experience. That's like those comment section geniuses that claim a fan of a losing team somehow doesn't understand the game...like there is some connection between the team you like and the ability to analyze.

You can choose to put whatever requirements on your own fan experience you desire. No championship = failure for you? Knock yourself out...be miserable. But it is unrealistic and unreasonable to expect any sports fan...Lakers, Patriots, Barcelona, or the Harlem Globetrotters fan included...to have such shitty requirements for a leisure activity.

I enjoy the game. The results are awesome when we win, but I watch regardless. Because I enjoy watching the result of 18 to 23 year old kids who bust their ass all week to be at their best for the event. I love the joy at the end of a great play. I love seeing a kid execute what they have been coached and smile when they catch their coaches eye. These kids perform at a level of excellence that 99% of Lakers fans, or whomever, will never achieve athletically....or maybe professionally. That is what is fun...seeing the game, the result of hard work, and yeah...winning.

I take it you have never enjoyed a road trip. Screw the sights, right. It's all about the destination? You can have that all to yourself....I enjoy the whole thing. The crowd, the players, the perfect possession. Sport.

[SCCats]

300+ teams and a top 8 finish is worthless?

I just don't get that line of thinking.

Nobody else understands it either, so don't worry (I know you aren't "worried") about it. It's just one person's opinion and that person is wrong, so...

[Puerco]

Newport, you are so pathetically inconsistent. Football is great because:

* 'even if you don't play for a national title you can still play and win a big bowl game^
Because advancing to the Elite Eight (therefore being one of the best eight teams in the land) isn't the equivalent of playing in a major bowl game.

* 'Winning your conference is (important in football) though'
Because being the best of 12 football teams is any different than being the best of 12 basketball teams.

* 'In other sports like Baseball it (the tournament) is important given so few teams make the playoffs.'
Because the 64-team baseball tournament is so much more selective than the 64 team NCAA tourney.

* 'From 1988 to 2001 we were spoiled fans, since then NO. We are not spoiled at all.'
Because only spoiled fans would think that a season with no Final Four is a waste of time.

My best advice would be to stop following all sports until the post season begins. You can start watching football in December and basketball in March. What you do for the other 10 months is to be determined, but I'm sure you will find something better and more entertaining to do than wasting time on meaningless sports events.

[Newportcat]

You guys can hate on me all you want, I get why fans of Arizona Basketball who would post on an Arizona message board do not agree with me.

If I lived in Tucson and can attend games lives, I would probably feel differently. But I don't so at this point, especially given the past couple years under Miller, I really do not care about the regular season outside of making sure we make the tourney, and working to get as high a side as possible.

How Miller has done coaching this team will be solely determined in the tournament. If we lose in the first round you might be calling Miller and the players a name that rhymes with "Witch".

That is my point, we lose in the first round you can flush the entire season down the drain.

Its not like we can fight for a bye or home court games in the tourney game like other sports. Hell, I almost want a lower seed so we DON'T play in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 at the Honda Center. Ship us out East or to the Midwest.

Do you seek out ways to set expectations that assure more misery than joy? Every football and basketball season is a wasted one without a Rose Bowl or Final 4... it sucks to be you.

You certainly have good reason to fear a Miller-coached team getting bounced in the first round, oh wait... Never mind. It will undoubtedly happen someday - and any fan that calls him something that rhymes with witch will be acting like something that rhymes with runt.

As for other comments... If only all our sports programs had the 'tournement issues' that our basketball program does. Wow.

This program defines excellence. That should be celebrated and appreciated.

Again, I grow up a Lakers fan where the only thing that matters is Banners. The only thing you are judged on as a sports program is winning championships.

I am not even saying I need our teams to win championships but get to the place to be in a position to do so.

Every football season Arizona football does not make a Rose Bowl is a waste of time, I literally believe that every year of Arizona football has been a giant waste of time since we joined the PAC 12. When people think about our program what do they say "Arizona is the only PAC 10 team to never make a Rose Bowl". Any season which does not remove that moniker does nothing to change our program

Every Arizona basketball season which does not end in a Final Four is a waste of time just like every Arizona baseball season which does not end in making a College World Series is a waste of time, same for Softball.

Do I think we lose in the first round this year, no. My point is if we did, all this carrying about winning the PAC 12 in basketball means nothing. If we lose in the second round or sweet 16 it means nothing too especially knowing that this is not a team that builds off each other.

Every year our team is entirely different given how recruiting works which means to me either they make a final four or they don't.

Like most Laker fans, you need to wake up to the current reality that the Showtime era is dead, and so are the dysfunctional yet successful Kobe-Shaq teams. And they have been for a long, long time.

The Lakers are yesteryear's news, much like the Dallas Cowboys. When you look in the mirror, do you see a senior in college?

The Lakers and Cowboys would be better focused on trying to make the playoffs... As opposed to milking achievements that today's college players and stars are not old enough to remember. But nice attempt to live back in the 'glory days'.

If we go back far enough... Army had one helluva football program. Back to back Heisman winners. Anything short of that is failure.

Right.

When did I ever say in this thread that the current Lakers are great or something special. They suck and Kobe should have retired a couple years back and that last contract they gave him proves Jim Buss is absolutely worthless and should be fired by his sister. Last time I check Lakers won a championship in 2010 so its not like it has been 20 years since their last championship. They are going to struggle for a while for sure but they are still the greatest professional sports franchise since the year I was born in 1980 in terms of success. The thing I love about Lakers fan is no one ever celebrates anything but Championships. Laker Hate all you want but since the year I was born we have won 10 NBA Championships. I can suffer through some bad years with that type of success knowing the franchise is 100% focused on doing everything possible to win championships, spend whatever money they have to, build the best new NBA practice facility etc.

Today's college players remember the Kobe/Pau/Lamar teams for sure

[Newportcat]

Saying the regular season is irrelevant is a measure of how spoiled we are as a fan base. To bubble teams, the regular season is pretty relevant.

It's only because we have ascended to the point that we expect it to be a given that people dare to call the season irrelevant. Talk to UCLA about whether the regular season is irrelevant.

For the love of God we are not spoiled. Arizona fans are spoiled with Arizona Softball. From 1988 through 2001 Arizona basketball fans were spoiled. Since that point HELL NO.

I swear to god that statement that Arizona fans are spoiled Basketball fans makes me want to puke. To be spoiled in college basketball means you make Final Fours or Championships on a regular basis. Duke is spoiled, Kentucky is Spoiled, UNC is Spoiled, Arizona...NO.

Have you guys forgotten our 5 loses in the Elite 8 since 2003. Because thats all any college basketball fan remembers about Arizona right now.

The only thing you have to do in the regular season is make the tournament, after that winning your conference or your conference tourney title is completely and utterly irrelevant in my opinion especially in light of the fact that all these Arizona teams are so different year to year. We never have teams that build off each where you say, watch this team next year or wait two years when all these guys are juniors. Its they better make a final four because half the team will be gone next year.

Making 5 Elite 8's is the equivalent to (or arguably a greater achievement than) making 5 Rose Bowls. But you call it meaningless.

You really are a chode. By your expectations, I am quite sure your career is a complete waste of time...

And making the NCAA tournament , which we take for granted, is a far more impressive accomplishment than making a bowl game, which more teams than not accomplish.

Please, jump off the bandwagon. It's already full.

I consider Arizona Basketball an Elite program. Making Elite 8's is not an accomplishment for Elite programs....PERIOD. When Coach K retires will they discuss how many Elite 8's Duke made???

I do not consider Arizona Football an Elite program. Making a Rose Bowl would be an accomplishment. Making a random bowl is not an accomplishment but since the tourney expanded to 64 teams I do not consider making the NCAA tournament for a major school a big time accomplishment either.

Why did you have to get personal on my career, that seems way out of line and so stupid too as you are so f*cking wrong on that issue.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Saying the regular season is irrelevant is a measure of how spoiled we are as a fan base. To bubble teams, the regular season is pretty relevant.

It's only because we have ascended to the point that we expect it to be a given that people dare to call the season irrelevant. Talk to UCLA about whether the regular season is irrelevant.

For the love of God we are not spoiled. Arizona fans are spoiled with Arizona Softball. From 1988 through 2001 Arizona basketball fans were spoiled. Since that point HELL NO.

I swear to god that statement that Arizona fans are spoiled Basketball fans makes me want to puke. To be spoiled in college basketball means you make Final Fours or Championships on a regular basis. Duke is spoiled, Kentucky is Spoiled, UNC is Spoiled, Arizona...NO.

Have you guys forgotten our 5 loses in the Elite 8 since 2003. Because thats all any college basketball fan remembers about Arizona right now.

The only thing you have to do in the regular season is make the tournament, after that winning your conference or your conference tourney title is completely and utterly irrelevant in my opinion especially in light of the fact that all these Arizona teams are so different year to year. We never have teams that build off each where you say, watch this team next year or wait two years when all these guys are juniors. Its they better make a final four because half the team will be gone next year.

To be spoiled is to stop appreciating what you should appreciate. These are 18-22 kids, some of whom do not go on to play in the NBA. They risk injury.

Look, if you think the regular season is meaningless, you can't enjoy Zeus coming back from injury as a monster in the paint, RA having one of the most efficient seasons ever in a UA uniform or PJC rebounding from a really tough start. Those things are worth enjoying, and only a miserable jerk would invalidate them because they don't get us banners.

Go root for ASU and cash it in. Don't enjoy the regular season because it sucks. Don't worry about getting pegged as losing in the Elite Eight, you'll never make it that far. If you don't enjoy watching this team, don't watch.

[gumby]

An elite program is one that makes Final Fours. We haven't been making those. But we're still an elite program, so we better get to the Final Four. Why? So we can be considered an elite program.

I'm getting dizzy.

[rgdeuce]

Last time I check Lakers won a championship in 2010 so its not like it has been 20 years since their last championship. They are going to struggle for a while for sure but they are still the greatest professional sports franchise since the year I was born in 1980 in terms of success. The thing I love about Lakers fan is no one ever celebrates anything but Championships. Laker Hate all you want but since the year I was born we have won 10 NBA Championships. I can suffer through some bad years with that type of success knowing the franchise is 100% focused on doing everything possible to win championships, spend whatever money they have to, build the best new NBA practice facility etc.

The bolded is basically you and most Los Angeles fans in a nutshell. The reason why the Coliseum was only halfway filled before Leinart, White, Bush, and Carroll started making history. The reason why the 2nd most populous region will have the Dodgers 1st in attendance out their ass when they are consistently making playoff runs, or 6th or 7th when they haven't been to the playoffs in a while. The reason why hardly anyone in LA cared about the Kings but not everyone is a hockey fan after they won the Stanley Cup. The reason why they couldn't keep the Raiders and Rams in town. And the Lakers, they don't celebrate anything but championships. So damn quiet when things aren't going well, but the loudest bunch when they are winning titles. And like Yankees fans, they have to bring up the titles, unprovoked. Someone will be congratulating the Warriors on an NBA title, and Lakers fans will be like, "Congrats Warriors, now u only need 12 more to catch us." The only time you see Celtics fans bring up titles is when a Lakers fan throws out titles.

I'm glad the regular season doesn't matter to you though. You are basically screaming to the world you are the definition of a fairweather fan. You only watch and care WHEN they are in the postseason and in line to win it all. You are only there for the glory and not the agony, struggle and grind. It's disgusting. I mean, I completely understand the concept of the number of games you watch in a season declining when your team sucks. I get it. When the Dbacks are playing circus ball and losing night in and night out, I may skip the game for a movie in September because I don't want to watch the same crap and get pissed. But you have a complete disregard for the regular season, even for a basketball team that is winning more than 75% of their games and in first place.

Sean Miller's "Im not going to apologize for being 34-5 (or whatever it was)" and "go root for ASU" were stated for "fans" like you.

[MountainCat]

Maybe we should petition the NCAA, and Dick Vitale, to rename the tournament rounds to include:

"Final 8" and "Elite 4"

That way we can prove that we are not and elite program, and allow us to keep banners up in McKale at the same time.

[catgrad97]

If there is one Arizona team to whom the regular season has never been more relevant, it is this team--which has had more "one and done"s, essentially, contribute than any other team in program history.

The one-time development of Ryan Anderson, Mark Tollefsen and possibly Allonzo Trier from virtual unknowns into Wildcats.

The twilight of Elliott Pitts.

Zeus' long-awaited assumption of man-beast status (on the boards, at least) and becoming the new winningest player in program history.

Kadeem Allen's explosion from juco star into combo guard threat.

If the regular season is truly irrelevant--if you think you can just turn a TV on in the first round of the NCAAs and start caring what Arizona does, like people say about the NBA in the fourth quarter or when both teams hit 100--then you would have no clue about the basketball identities of any of the above players.

You just wouldn't understand their roles. It would be like playing the early NBA video games with all the fake last names. You might as well go root for Duke or Kentucky.

It is because all of these players develop, and you can see it from game to game, that the regular season matters. It is part of the subtle beauty of college basketball.

It's why I was happy to just observe and not get all star-struck about Damon, Khalid, Miles, Bibby, JT and the gang (I saved that for Lute) just because I went to college with them and saw them around campus.

Like Lute before him, Miller is dedicated to developing these boys into men every day. Think how rare that is, especially in this day and age of D-I coach as mercenary and paid pitch man.

It is the purity of that teaching that you can't see anywhere else--and will never change with this program. If it does, then everything becomes irrelevant. At least to this 35-year fan.

[dirtbags]

nba teams also don't run a 64+ team single elimination tournament field each year to win a championship. we all know that the ncaa tournament is a fickle beast, and the most talented teams often don't win. to run deep through the dance with that kind of consistency year in and out says a hell of a lot more about the quality and promise of a program than a team with a one-off / occasional FF offset by a slew of early-round exits.

ncaa titles are awesome, and they are what people remember and care about the most, but they're also a poor indicator of who the best bball team is in any given year. not saying to hang EE banners and throw ticker tape parades for it, but maybe zoom out a little bit and appreciate how tough it is to achieve what our guys have done over the years.

[Newportcat]

An elite program is one that makes Final Fours. We haven't been making those. But we're still an elite program, so we better get to the Final Four. Why? So we can be considered an elite program.

I'm getting dizzy.

Yes an Elite program is one that makes final fours. I believe our program CAN be an elite program as it was from 1988 through 2001 but since then we have simply been a good to great program. Nothing special or that will get remembered by the average college basketball fan. When we start making final fours again and hopefully winning a national championship again then we can be back in that same list as Duke, North Carolina, etc.

We are a Great BUT program right now. Arizona is Great BUT they keep losing in the Final Four. Sean Miler is a great coach BUT he still has not made a final four. Arizona is great BUT they have lost 5 elite 8 games since 2003.

I dont want to be a Great BUT program, I want to be Elite PERIOD Elite. We recruit at an elite level, we have facilities at an Elite level, I think our coaching is elite BUT until we make final fours we will not be viewed as an Elite program. And I personally hate that so anything that does not help us get back to being Elite is basically irrelevant to me.

Maybe I am too competitive or much more competitive then the people here. All I know is I have asked all my buddies the question whether they would be excited if we won the PAC 12 title and all of them said they could give two sh*ts and the only thing that matters is how we perform in the tourney.

I get I am debating Diehards which is kind of like me trying to convince crack heads in a crack house that crack isnt good for them. We all want the same thing in the end I just care a lot less about things which do not end the "Arizona is great BUT"

[Newportcat]

If there is one Arizona team to whom the regular season has never been more relevant, it is this team--which has had more "one and done"s, essentially, contribute than any other team in program history.

The one-time development of Ryan Anderson, Mark Tollefsen and possibly Allonzo Trier from virtual unknowns into Wildcats.

The twilight of Elliott Pitts.

Zeus' long-awaited assumption of man-beast status (on the boards, at least) and becoming the new winningest player in program history.

Kadeem Allen's explosion from juco star into combo guard threat.

If the regular season is truly irrelevant--if you think you can just turn a TV on in the first round of the NCAAs and start caring what Arizona does, like people say about the NBA in the fourth quarter or when both teams hit 100--then you would have no clue about the basketball identities of any of the above players.

You just wouldn't understand their roles. It would be like playing the early NBA video games with all the fake last names. You might as well go root for Duke or Kentucky.

It is because all of these players develop, and you can see it from game to game, that the regular season matters. It is part of the subtle beauty of college basketball.

It's why I was happy to just observe and not get all star-struck about Damon, Khalid, Miles, Bibby, JT and the gang (I saved that for Lute) just because I went to college with them and saw them around campus.

Like Lute before him, Miller is dedicated to developing these boys into men every day. Think how rare that is, especially in this day and age of D-I coach as mercenary and paid pitch man.

It is the purity of that teaching that you can't see anywhere else--and will never change with this program. If it does, then everything becomes irrelevant. At least to this 35-year fan.

I get what you are saying but tough to get into the narrative you describe when every year it seems our team completely changes over. The guys you mentioned like Damon, Khalid, JT etc all stayed four years and you saw them grow into world class players. Today, guys come and go so quickly tough to really get behind them. Ryan Anderson is a great player but here today gone today. Thats the way College Basketball works nowadays which just puts more pressure on them to perform in the tournament because they only get one shot at glory.

[DaddyO'Cat]

If there is one Arizona team to whom the regular season has never been more relevant, it is this team--which has had more "one and done"s, essentially, contribute than any other team in program history.

The one-time development of Ryan Anderson, Mark Tollefsen and possibly Allonzo Trier from virtual unknowns into Wildcats.

The twilight of Elliott Pitts.

Zeus' long-awaited assumption of man-beast status (on the boards, at least) and becoming the new winningest player in program history.

Kadeem Allen's explosion from juco star into combo guard threat.

If the regular season is truly irrelevant--if you think you can just turn a TV on in the first round of the NCAAs and start caring what Arizona does, like people say about the NBA in the fourth quarter or when both teams hit 100--then you would have no clue about the basketball identities of any of the above players.

In my observation funny thing about Ryan is that he has this incredible ability to score with 2 players draped over him but can't score when he's untouched. It's weird. I don't think he will be an NBA player, but if he continues to grow he sure will be.
You just wouldn't understand their roles. It would be like playing the early NBA video games with all the fake last names. You might as well go root for Duke or Kentucky.

It is because all of these players develop, and you can see it from game to game, that the regular season matters. It is part of the subtle beauty of college basketball.

It's why I was happy to just observe and not get all star-struck about Damon, Khalid, Miles, Bibby, JT and the gang (I saved that for Lute) just because I went to college with them and saw them around campus.

Like Lute before him, Miller is dedicated to developing these boys into men every day. Think how rare that is, especially in this day and age of D-I coach as mercenary and paid pitch man.

It is the purity of that teaching that you can't see anywhere else--and will never change with this program. If it does, then everything becomes irrelevant. At least to this 35-year fan.

I get what you are saying but tough to get into the narrative you describe when every year it seems our team completely changes over. The guys you mentioned like Damon, Khalid, JT etc all stayed four years and you saw them grow into world class players. Today, guys come and go so quickly tough to really get behind them. Ryan Anderson is a great player but here today gone today. Thats the way College Basketball works nowadays which just puts more pressure on them to perform in the tournament because they only get one shot at glory.

[DaddyO'Cat]

I typed a mssg in a reply format but don't see it and don't know why it is not showing up and will repeat and hope it is not a double post... was commenting on RA.... Watched him and strange how he scores at such a high rate with at least 1 or 2 defenders draped all over him but can't score when he's untouched. I don't think he will be an NBA player unless he continues his trajectory and develops a reliable jump shot. But damn he is good for us ala jimmer was for BYU.

[Bangkok Wildcat]

Assuming that if we are tied with Oregon (or Utah) at the end of Pac12 play, ORE would win due to their having beat us, correct? Not something stupid like overall win/loss record? Or would we be co-champs?

Thanks, BW

[ASUHATER!]

Co champs. Tiebreakers are just for determining tournament seeding. But if we're both 14-4 then we technically are both 2016 champions

[Bangkok Wildcat]

Co champs. Tiebreakers are just for determining tournament seeding. But if we're both 14-4 then we technically are both 2016 champions

Thanks Hater.....before I used to dislike this method but with the unbalanced scheduling now, guess it's the best option.

[Puerco]

I get I am debating Diehards which is kind of like me trying to convince crack heads in a crack house that crack isnt good for them. We all want the same thing in the end I just care a lot less about things which do not end the "Arizona is great BUT"

You characterizing yourself and your fellow bandwagon buddies as diehard basketball fans in comparison to the people who actually inhabit this basketball forum is laughable, Newport. It's laughable, ludicrous lunacy.

Diehard fans follow their teams religiously, even when the team isn't winning championships. Diehard fans look for minute signs of improvement in the team or in any particular player throught the course of the season. Diehard fans are disappointed when their teams lose but are proud when they win: a game, a tournament, a conference championship, a national championship. Diehard fans want their teams to perform as well as possible, but don't chalk up every season as a waste of time if it doesn't end with a national championship.

Diehard fans do NOT just look up from whatever else they were doing in mid-March and say, 'We lost in the Elite Eight? What a waste of time!'

Nice try, bud.

[dcZONAfan]

I get what you are saying but tough to get into the narrative you describe when every year it seems our team completely changes over. The guys you mentioned like Damon, Khalid, JT etc all stayed four years and you saw them grow into world class players. Today, guys come and go so quickly tough to really get behind them. Ryan Anderson is a great player but here today gone today. Thats the way College Basketball works nowadays which just puts more pressure on them to perform in the tournament because they only get one shot at glory.

That's exactly why it's even harder now to make it to a FF. How can you not understand that? You think if Miller had continuity for 4 years he wouldn't have made a FF yet? He would have, but in this day and age the tourney results are even MORE of a crapshoot. Putting yourself in a postion, "knocking on the door" as CSM says, is all you can do and eventually you'll break down the door.

By the way how does it feel to only have 16 championships you Laker scum? Must really suck. Because we've got 17. Bitch.

[rgdeuce]

I typed a mssg in a reply format but don't see it and don't know why it is not showing up and will repeat and hope it is not a double post... was commenting on RA.... Watched him and strange how he scores at such a high rate with at least 1 or 2 defenders draped all over him but can't score when he's untouched. I don't think he will be an NBA player unless he continues his trajectory and develops a reliable jump shot. But damn he is good for us ala jimmer was for BYU.

His defense will be what holds him back. If he were adequate by NBA standards, he is more than capable of being a grit guy off the bench who will grind and grab you rebounds, give you second opportunities on the offense end, or put them back or get to the line (and not kill you there) himself. He does have decent touch which will continue to get better, and he is athletic, strong and body wise he can hang with the NBA boys. Hes just a damn good ballplayer, but his defense is bad. He struggles guarding anyone away from the hoop and his defensive IQ isn't the best either. For as much crap as we give Tollefsen, Ryan might be the next guy up in that department, he just more than makes up for it ten fold with everything else.

[Harvey Specter]

An elite program is one that makes Final Fours. We haven't been making those. But we're still an elite program, so we better get to the Final Four. Why? So we can be considered an elite program.

I'm getting dizzy.

Yes an Elite program is one that makes final fours. I believe our program CAN be an elite program as it was from 1988 through 2001 but since then we have simply been a good to great program. Nothing special or that will get remembered by the average college basketball fan. When we start making final fours again and hopefully winning a national championship again then we can be back in that same list as Duke, North Carolina, etc.

We are a Great BUT program right now. Arizona is Great BUT they keep losing in the Final Four. Sean Miler is a great coach BUT he still has not made a final four. Arizona is great BUT they have lost 5 elite 8 games since 2003.

I dont want to be a Great BUT program, I want to be Elite PERIOD Elite. We recruit at an elite level, we have facilities at an Elite level, I think our coaching is elite BUT until we make final fours we will not be viewed as an Elite program. And I personally hate that so anything that does not help us get back to being Elite is basically irrelevant to me.

Maybe I am too competitive or much more competitive then the people here. All I know is I have asked all my buddies the question whether they would be excited if we won the PAC 12 title and all of them said they could give two sh*ts and the only thing that matters is how we perform in the tourney.

I get I am debating Diehards which is kind of like me trying to convince crack heads in a crack house that crack isnt good for them. We all want the same thing in the end I just care a lot less about things which do not end the "Arizona is great BUT"

That is what it is Newport... You are just a wolf among sheep, a gladiator surrounded by monks... you competitive animal you!

Give me a break. So you have to be in the top 4 out of 347, or you are a failure? Okay, Eldrick. Who cares if I am number 1 in the Western US at my job... If I am not top 4 on the globe then I deserve to be fired!

You are clearly.an over-achieving MMA street fighter. Women want you... Men fear you... Children want to be like you. Us mere mortals are humbled to be in the presence of your greatness.

By your defeatist definition, the world is filled with losers... and I am quite sure you are probably one of them. But call it competitiveness if you wish.

[azcat49]

An elite program is one that makes Final Fours. We haven't been making those. But we're still an elite program, so we better get to the Final Four. Why? So we can be considered an elite program.

I'm getting dizzy.

Yes an Elite program is one that makes final fours. I believe our program CAN be an elite program as it was from 1988 through 2001 but since then we have simply been a good to great program. Nothing special or that will get remembered by the average college basketball fan. When we start making final fours again and hopefully winning a national championship again then we can be back in that same list as Duke, North Carolina, etc.

We are a Great BUT program right now. Arizona is Great BUT they keep losing in the Final Four. Sean Miler is a great coach BUT he still has not made a final four. Arizona is great BUT they have lost 5 elite 8 games since 2003.

I dont want to be a Great BUT program, I want to be Elite PERIOD Elite. We recruit at an elite level, we have facilities at an Elite level, I think our coaching is elite BUT until we make final fours we will not be viewed as an Elite program. And I personally hate that so anything that does not help us get back to being Elite is basically irrelevant to me.

Maybe I am too competitive or much more competitive then the people here. All I know is I have asked all my buddies the question whether they would be excited if we won the PAC 12 title and all of them said they could give two sh*ts and the only thing that matters is how we perform in the tourney.

I get I am debating Diehards which is kind of like me trying to convince crack heads in a crack house that crack isnt good for them. We all want the same thing in the end I just care a lot less about things which do not end the "Arizona is great BUT"

That is what it is Newport... You are just a wolf among sheep, a gladiator surrounded by monks... you competitive animal you!

Give me a break. So you have to be in the top 4 out of 347, or you are a failure? Okay, Eldrick. Who cares if I am number 1 in the Western US at my job... If I am not top 4 on the globe then I deserve to be fired!

You are clearly.an over-achieving MMA street fighter. Women want you... Men fear you... Children want to be like you. Us mere mortals are humbled to be in the presence of your greatness.

By your defeatist definition, the world is filled with losers... and I am quite sure you are probably one of them. But call it competitiveness if you wish.

Another classic post Harv, well done LOL

[rgdeuce]

Seriously, what does competitiveness have to do with this? Unless you are a gambler who thinks they are the greatest at handicapping.... I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Some of us have really big problems with competitiveness. Even stuff as stupid as video games and fantasy football as a grown ass man.... But how are you making a competition out of watching someone else play basketball if it isn't gambling and you aren't a coach?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Seriously, what does competitiveness have to do with this? Unless you are a gambler who thinks they are the greatest at handicapping.... I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Some of us have really big problems with competitiveness. Even stuff as stupid as video games and fantasy football as a grown ass man.... But how are you making a competition out of watching someone else play basketball if it isn't gambling and you aren't a coach?

It's bizarre. Here's the thing, I bet every poster on this site (except the trolls) would list the #1 accomplishment we could have this year as a national championship. Every single one would want that more than a #1 seed, Pac title, etc.

The question is what happens if we don't get there. Newport seems to suggest we should view it as a disappointment and no more. Again, I think every poster was sad when we lost to Wisconsin, and every poster is gonna be sad if/when we lose in the NCAA tourney.

Some of us will just acknowledge there were still things that happened this year that Arizona fans should be happy about. Newport seems incapable of that next step. It isn't competitiveness, it's a messed up perspective.

[Olsondogg]

I don't understand people who can't enjoy a journey, even with setbacks and pitfalls, but the journey. I mean, if the destination is the only thing that matters, then how is that a way to watch a basketball season, or even to live a life in general?

I mean, if heaven is the destination...what's the point of all this, right?

Maybe I'm just not as competitive...whatever the fuck that means.

[PHXCATS]

Seriously, what does competitiveness have to do with this? Unless you are a gambler who thinks they are the greatest at handicapping.... I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Some of us have really big problems with competitiveness. Even stuff as stupid as video games and fantasy football as a grown ass man.... But how are you making a competition out of watching someone else play basketball if it isn't gambling and you aren't a coach?

It's bizarre. Here's the thing, I bet every poster on this site (except the trolls) would list the #1 accomplishment we could have this year as a national championship. Every single one would want that more than a #1 seed, Pac title, etc.

The question is what happens if we don't get there. Newport seems to suggest we should view it as a disappointment and no more. Again, I think every poster was sad when we lost to Wisconsin, and every poster is gonna be sad if/when we lose in the NCAA tourney.

Some of us will just acknowledge there were still things that happened this year that Arizona fans should be happy about. Newport seems incapable of that next step. It isn't competitiveness, it's a messed up perspective.

Completely get your points and agree with them. What are the things you are happy about so far this year?

[Beachcat97]

I'd be thrilled if any of these happen:

-reg season Pac title
-Pac tourney title
-Sweet Sixteen or better

If none of the above happens, I'll be bummed but still proud of them.

[PHXCATS]

I see Oregon and Arizona going 3 and 1 the rest of the way and utah going 3 and 0. Hope I am wrong about Saturday but the best win so far being Washington doesn't comfort me much. Of that happens U of A would be the 3 in Vegas

[Bear Down Vegas]

Completely get your points and agree with them. What are the things you are happy about so far this year?

I'm happy with the job Coach has done with the team this year. After all of the losses AND all of the injuries, plus the Pitts thing...I'm super happy with the progression & toughness of this team. Loved Kaleb stepping up after the yelling incident, LOVED the second asu game - and honestly??

I'm happy with just about every game except the Oregon game at home. & I think that's because the team got a little too cocky early. Other than that I'm happy as hell with this season.

Since you asked.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Seriously, what does competitiveness have to do with this? Unless you are a gambler who thinks they are the greatest at handicapping.... I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. Some of us have really big problems with competitiveness. Even stuff as stupid as video games and fantasy football as a grown ass man.... But how are you making a competition out of watching someone else play basketball if it isn't gambling and you aren't a coach?

It's bizarre. Here's the thing, I bet every poster on this site (except the trolls) would list the #1 accomplishment we could have this year as a national championship. Every single one would want that more than a #1 seed, Pac title, etc.

The question is what happens if we don't get there. Newport seems to suggest we should view it as a disappointment and no more. Again, I think every poster was sad when we lost to Wisconsin, and every poster is gonna be sad if/when we lose in the NCAA tourney.

Some of us will just acknowledge there were still things that happened this year that Arizona fans should be happy about. Newport seems incapable of that next step. It isn't competitiveness, it's a messed up perspective.

Completely get your points and agree with them. What are the things you are happy about so far this year?

Big road win at Gonzaga.
Zeus saving his best for last.
Anderson's incredible efficiency.
Miller has been dealt a tough hand with new faces and injuries. It's been a great coaching job.
PJC's resurgence is a feel good story.
Most of all, we have had a lot of hurdles this year, yet we are still tied for the Pac lead and setting up weel for March.

[Olsondogg]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

[Spaceman Spiff]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

We're only barely in the top ten. Not even top five.

[PHXCATS]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

Schedule does not set up well for the Cats the last two weeks

[azgreg]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

We're only barely in the top ten. Not even top five.

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

Blow it up and start over. What's Tim Floyd doing these days?

[Olsondogg]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

Schedule does not set up well for the Cats the last two weeks

Uh ok. 2 games on the road after a week off, and two games at home.

Furthermore Arizona plays Wednesday- Saturday and Tah plays Thursday-Saturday...so essentially an extra day to prep. Then two games at McKale to end up the season.

Arizona controls their own destiny...and yet the schedule does not set up well.

Your arguments are pitiful.

[PHXCATS]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

Schedule does not set up well for the Cats the last two weeks

Uh ok. 2 games on the road after a week off, and two games at home.

Furthermore Arizona plays Wednesday- Saturday and Tah plays Thursday-Saturday...so essentially an extra day to prep. Then two games at McKale to end up the season.

Arizona controls their own destiny...and yet the schedule does not set up well.

Your arguments are pitiful.

Actually Arizona does not unless you want to hang a banner for co champs. No use in talking rationally to a blind homer. You are pitiful of you do not see how much easier Utah and Orwgon have it their lat two weeks vs U of A

[ASUHATER!]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

Schedule does not set up well for the Cats the last two weeks

Uh ok. 2 games on the road after a week off, and two games at home.

Furthermore Arizona plays Wednesday- Saturday and Tah plays Thursday-Saturday...so essentially an extra day to prep. Then two games at McKale to end up the season.

Arizona controls their own destiny...and yet the schedule does not set up well.

Your arguments are pitiful.

It's phxcats...it's always pitiful.

[ChooChooCat]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

Schedule does not set up well for the Cats the last two weeks

Uh ok. 2 games on the road after a week off, and two games at home.

Furthermore Arizona plays Wednesday- Saturday and Tah plays Thursday-Saturday...so essentially an extra day to prep. Then two games at McKale to end up the season.

Arizona controls their own destiny...and yet the schedule does not set up well.

Your arguments are pitiful.

Actually Arizona does not unless you want to hang a banner for co champs. No use in talking rationally to a blind homer. You are pitiful of you do not see how much easier Utah and Orwgon have it their lat two weeks vs U of A

1. We're ahead of Utah in the standings still
2. Oregon playing in LA is no picnic for them
3. Being Co-Champs means you're still champs

[UAdevil]

Lol Mach

[RichardCranium]

Arizona can win out. I no longer rate it as a 'should win out'. It'll be a tough game in SLC, but certainly do-able.

Oregon is vulnerable to Washington and will lose at least one in LA.

Utah has 3 home games, A$$U, UA, Co. They could easily lose to both A$$U and Arizona, but that is a big ask for the scummies on the road.

What I would like to see happen is for the Scummies to beat the Utes in 4 or 5 overtimes on Friday.

[Olsondogg]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

Schedule does not set up well for the Cats the last two weeks

Uh ok. 2 games on the road after a week off, and two games at home.

Furthermore Arizona plays Wednesday- Saturday and Tah plays Thursday-Saturday...so essentially an extra day to prep. Then two games at McKale to end up the season.

Arizona controls their own destiny...and yet the schedule does not set up well.

Your arguments are pitiful.

Actually Arizona does not unless you want to hang a banner for co champs. No use in talking rationally to a blind homer. You are pitiful of you do not see how much easier Utah and Orwgon have it their lat two weeks vs U of A

How much easier? Are you a fool? Oregon (not Orwgon) has to travel to LA, which is no cakewalk. Utah goes head to head against Arizona (whom they haven't beaten since, like ever) with one less day of rest/prep.

Arizona then has a revenge game against Cal with both teams being healthy, and finishing up with Furd.

I mean, if you wanna act like some program has a cakewalk and Arizona doesn't, then so be it. But for someone lamenting the SOS of Arizona, you should want the harder path.

[84Cat]

One game at a time. Must take care of Rado tomorrow. They are no pushover and if we are looking ahead to Tah, we could be in for a long night.

[dirtbags]

Arizona can win out. I no longer rate it as a 'should win out'. It'll be a tough game in SLC, but certainly do-able.

Oregon is vulnerable to Washington and will lose at least one in LA.

Utah has 3 home games, A$$U, UA, Co. They could easily lose to both A$$U and Arizona, but that is a big ask for the scummies on the road.

What I would like to see happen is for the Scummies to beat the Utes in 4 or 5 overtimes on Friday.

one can dream

would be great to get some help from the exploding hurleys, but we can't depend on those bozos for nuthin!

[Harvey Specter]

People are now having to defend what they're happy about a 22-5, 1st place in PAC season?

Schedule does not set up well for the Cats the last two weeks

Uh ok. 2 games on the road after a week off, and two games at home.

Furthermore Arizona plays Wednesday- Saturday and Tah plays Thursday-Saturday...so essentially an extra day to prep. Then two games at McKale to end up the season.

Arizona controls their own destiny...and yet the schedule does not set up well.

Your arguments are pitiful.

Actually Arizona does not unless you want to hang a banner for co champs. No use in talking rationally to a blind homer. You are pitiful of you do not see how much easier Utah and Orwgon have it their lat two weeks vs U of A

Careful, Machina, with who you call a homer.

A conference championship is a big deal and something we've never achieved in your beloved sport. Ever. Which is probably why it is beloved to you... You don't value achievement, you value the underdog.

Shouldn't we have hung a banner for our division championship last year? Or retired Denker's jersey the year before? That was wonderful, despite the ass-kickings in the post season... But a Conference Championship in BB is meaningless.

Go troll elsewhere. Please.

[Harvey Specter]

I'd be thrilled if any of these happen:

-reg season Pac title
-Pac tourney title
-Sweet Sixteen or better

If none of the above happens, I'll be bummed but still proud of them.

I like you more every day.

My sentiments exactly.

[Olsondogg]

Wait...Machina created a new handle that is somehow more douchey than his last?