Bear Down Wildcats

Fall on that grenade Book, you dumb bitch

97cats wrote:

threenumberones wrote:
Not sure that matters. The NCAA will have its own investigation, and if there is room to question how the program is run, it's oversight, etc. That's where Sean could be in trouble.

maybe, but i am hearing the FBI is investigating this as an outside the university operation, and that these coaches collaborated with the scum for their own benefit, exploiting the players and universities for their own profit.

just something to consider.

Pretty much. They were middlemen in pushing these kids to the sports agents/shoe companies/financial advisors etc

Coaches got the bribe $$$$$ for doing this and a commitment


Could be just exclusive to Book or could get bigger

NYCat wrote: How the money flowed:

coach requests funds ----> apparel company/agent/financial advisor sends $$$ to shell company ----> shell company makes purchase/deposit into an account of a family member or the recruit ----> player commits to program and gets directed to the apparel company/agent/financial advisor etc etc. ----> coaches get the "bribes" for doing this successfully and they get the commitment

97cats wrote:

threenumberones wrote:
Not sure that matters. The NCAA will have its own investigation, and if there is room to question how the program is run, it's oversight, etc. That's where Sean could be in trouble.

maybe, but i am hearing the FBI is investigating this as an outside the university operation, and that these coaches collaborated with the scum for their own benefit, exploiting the players and universities for their own profit.

just something to consider.

MIller and UA Pres should have a presser this afternoon saying as much. Don't think a simple statement will do. That will quell a lot of "guilt by association" critics out there, because the guilty would not do this. However, I'm sure there is some lawyering up going on JUST IN CASE and advice would be to keep mum about this, even if innocent. We'll hear something soon.

So is a decent part of this an Adidas thing? TJ Leaf, etc?

I was told a couple years ago by someone I know exceptionally well with very strong connections that this shit goes on here & everywhere else. And for Machina's benefit... not just in BB.

Against my better judgment, I chose not to believe him... but I told him that IF that's true 1] I hope somebody blows this shit WIDE open (He said the NCAA never would, because there is too much money at stake - Enter the FBI) 2] The day that it is confirmed is the day I stop being a fan of college athletics.

Miller IS responsible; he is paid handsomely to run the ship and is accountable for the good and the bad. Whether he is guilty or innocent in this specific matter is TBD, but common sense tells me it's highly likely that it is the former.

I would find it hard to believe that this kind of stuff is ever done by any assistant without the head coach's knowledge & consent at any other program. I am not going to listen to my heart instead of my head because it is 'my guy, my team'. Become the new PSU or Louisville fan base at your pleasure.

(So Book told these kids ' hey, this is just between you & me... make sure you don't ever mention this to Coach Miller'? Riiigght). So the assistants at Nike/UA Schools got paid by Adidas to give money to recruits so that the recruits would sign an LOI to attend a competitor's school and then eventually sign with their shoe company? Or advisers, etc. without any ties to or interests in a specific college program are forking out dough to get HS kids to attend that specific school (and then eventually use their services?)... all without any knowledge of the Head Coach (especially one who is a control freak)?

Sorry, that doesn't pass the smell test to me. Miller is actively engaged (and knows what it takes to be successful in) getting recruits. When we are talking multiple players over multiple years, it sure feels like it is part of "what we do". If this was done on a select basis, we'd have to assume the kids don't talk. IF the stars who are NOT getting paid find out that other stars ARE... well, you see where this is going.

If this is NOT an SOP for our program's recruiting of players... then I would love to see tweets in coming days from every former marquee player in the Miller era, declaring of their own accord, that they 'Never received any financial incentive to attend Arizona'. If they are clean, there is no reason not to. (It would certainly make my day).

If this is simply 'the way the game HAS to be played' (and that may likely be the case)... then do it out in the open FFS. Stop selling me some phony feel-good story of what college sports is really about and how it works. I hope somebody sings like a bird and shines a bright light on whatever level of "under the table shit" goes on.

I have a feeling I may have just gotten a fairly significant of my mindshare & time back to focus on more meaningful things. Bums me out, but not as shocking as I wish it was.

Bosy Billups wrote:

97cats wrote:

threenumberones wrote:
Not sure that matters. The NCAA will have its own investigation, and if there is room to question how the program is run, it's oversight, etc. That's where Sean could be in trouble.

maybe, but i am hearing the FBI is investigating this as an outside the university operation, and that these coaches collaborated with the scum for their own benefit, exploiting the players and universities for their own profit.

just something to consider.

MIller and UA Pres should have a presser this afternoon saying as much. Don't think a simple statement will do. That will quell a lot of "guilt by association" critics out there, because the guilty would not do this. However, I'm sure there is some lawyering up going on JUST IN CASE and advice would be to keep mum about this, even if innocent. We'll hear something soon.

Miller and UA Pres should release a statement saying simply that they are trying to gather all relevant information and that they are cooperating with the DOJ and NCAA. To say any more at this time would be very unwise.

Alieberman wrote:I absolutely despise the argument of "Well.... everyone does it...."

Have a spine, stand for something, and do what's right.

It's really not a hard way to live your life.

Thank you.

The naievety of some college basketball fans is what’s most upsetting.

Harvey Specter wrote:

Alieberman wrote:I absolutely despise the argument of "Well.... everyone does it...."

Have a spine, stand for something, and do what's right.

It's really not a hard way to live your life.

Thank you.

A great post for Bosy Billups to think about while he is supposedly in his foxhole.

Olsondogg wrote:The naievety of some college basketball fans is what’s most upsetting.

I agree with a very large amount of your posts. But I wasn't naive completely. I was naive to this specifically. There can be a difference, right?

and maybe not

Bear Down Vegas wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:The naievety of some college basketball fans is what’s most upsetting.

I agree with a very large amount of your posts. But I wasn't naive completely. I was naive to this specifically. There can be a difference, right?

I’m just saying that youth club sports are corrupt as shit. I don’t expect it to be clean the further up it goes...

threenumberones wrote:

97cats wrote:

carcassdragger wrote:Miller is gone and should be.

zero chance

Jefe wrote: No chance. Maybe a suspension but thats it

doubt a suspension

im hearing the FBI is saying the employers and the universities are the victims.

Not sure that matters. The NCAA will have its own investigation, and if there is room to question how the program is run, it's oversight, etc. That's where Sean could be in trouble.

Right. For our purposes, the real hammer will come from NCAA. They probably won't agree that the school is a victim. Only hope is that they do.

Agreed. I just didn't want the curtain pulled back maybe.

I tend to think - even when Lute played the edges - we were clean. I mean, as clean as you could be to compete. It's all just like growing up again. So you're right. It's naivety.

zonagrad wrote:I'm so relieved that the FBI is spending money and resources on this scourge. I mean, those those hundreds of shootings in Chicago, political corruption, terrorism and all can wait. But let's get this shoe money in college basketball under control before our way of life collapses.

Bingo!

One page it says Miami and Arizona were fighting for a recruit. Immediately thought Nassir Little

But could be Lonnie Walker couldn't it?

Book could absolutely have been acting alone.

It doesn't look great that Pasternack and Book met with the shady management company - though Miller is never mentioned or listed.

It doesn't look great that the shady management company bragged about being able to attend our practices like he was a member of the team - though Miller is never mentioned or listed.

It doesn't look great that the Adidas official running the bribery talked about Arizona/Nike as getting into a bidding war with Miami/Adidas over a $150,000 payment to Nassir Little - though it's possible our involvement was a lie to be used as leverage.

It doesn't look great that Quinerly was paid to come to Arizona - though the payment went to his mom and Book said 90% of the time the kids don't know.

It doesn't look great that two current players were targeted by Book and the management company - though they were likely never paid as the FBI would have listed those payments to Book and the subsequent payments to the players.

If the "$150k bidding war" doesn't stick, Miller has clean hands, Quinerly didn't know about the payment, and the two current players are clean... we're in fairly okay condition. Maybe a one year post season ban plus a couple of scholarships. Maybe nothing at all.

NYCat wrote:One page it says Miami and Arizona were fighting for a recruit. Immediately thought Nassir Little

But could be Lonnie Walker couldn't it?

2018 player - that's Nassir Little.

Greg Byrne: "Roll Tide!"

Dave Heeke: "Join the Wildcat (Perp) Walk."

P.S. Sorry, this is how I cope.

carcassdragger wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:

Alieberman wrote:I absolutely despise the argument of "Well.... everyone does it...."

Have a spine, stand for something, and do what's right.

It's really not a hard way to live your life.

Thank you.

A great post for Bosy Billups to think about while he is supposedly in his foxhole.

Okay Chelsea Manning

I gotta think the university's gonna self-impose some sort of penalty, with the hope of mitigating the NCAA's wrath. It seems the initial panic may've been inflated, but there's no way we come out of this entirely unscathed. As some have noted, there's now that cloud of suspicion over Miller and the program. How long does it take for that to disappear?

I also look at freaking Kentucky. Is there any doubt that they're not cheating? I know they've got history and blah blah blah, but Calipari's track record speaks for itself. He's never been at a program that didn't break rules on his watch.

I don't want to go full-blown "what-about-ist." But some perspective is warranted here. Really need to see Miller completely cleared. That will go a long way towards recuperating the program's perception.

OK State already made a statement

“We were surprised to learn this morning of potential actions against one of our assistant basketball coaches by federal officials. We are reviewing and investigating the allegations. We are cooperating fully with officials. Let it be clear we take very seriously the high standards of conduct expected in our athletic department. We will not tolerate any deviation from those standards.”

AZ did get some props in all this. Univ 4 is AZ

USC statement, which is just standard legal statement that they are cooperating with the FBI:

Cut and paste that for the other schools. What can they say?

zonagrad wrote:The hypocrisy in all of this blows me away. Not condoning Book's actions or anyone else, but you'd be naive to think this hasn't been happening for decades. First and foremost, let's stop talking about the players and their families as victims. They're complicit. They shop schools through back channels. They all expect more than just a scholarship offer. It's been ingrained in the AAU system. To think that there are four crooked assistants and everyone else is pure as the driven snow is laughable.
Frankly, I don't really care if a player received money. It's been going on forever. And now the national debate is about playing athletes. The Black market has handled this for years. It's just a shame that Arizona could be punished when programs like Duke, UNC, Kansas all skate free is b.s.

We all know that. But the rules is the rules.

The best thing, frankly, would be to find out that this happened at 53 schools, or 137, or something that makes this an indictment of the shoe culture that we all know is dangerous as fuck. The more implicated the better for us.

sorry...I am 3 pages behind...trying to catch up

84Cat wrote:USC statement:

I totally forgot Lynn Swann was the AD there now. Not really much anyone can say right now.

Merkin wrote:

Rawle

Goodness gracious. Say it ain't so Book!



UA assistant among 4 coaches charged with taking bribes to deliver athletes
Posted: Sep 26, 2017 7:29 AM
Updated: Sep 26, 2017 10:51 AM


News 4 Tucson has reached out to the University of Arizona Athletics Department and is still waiting for a response.


http://www.kvoa.com/story/36454448/brea ... ion-scheme" target="_blank

EVCat wrote:

zonagrad wrote:The hypocrisy in all of this blows me away. Not condoning Book's actions or anyone else, but you'd be naive to think this hasn't been happening for decades. First and foremost, let's stop talking about the players and their families as victims. They're complicit. They shop schools through back channels. They all expect more than just a scholarship offer. It's been ingrained in the AAU system. To think that there are four crooked assistants and everyone else is pure as the driven snow is laughable.
Frankly, I don't really care if a player received money. It's been going on forever. And now the national debate is about playing athletes. The Black market has handled this for years. It's just a shame that Arizona could be punished when programs like Duke, UNC, Kansas all skate free is b.s.

We all know that. But the rules is the rules.

The best thing, frankly, would be to find out that this happened at 53 schools, or 137, or something that makes this an indictment of the shoe culture that we all know is dangerous as fuck. The more implicated the better for us.

Agree, but it looks like it will be contained to four, with others put on warning that they now "have the playbook." That's what I got from presser.

Of course, playbook will change.

So if a current player is involved in all of this, there's no way that player is on the roster this year, right? Any games he plays in could be vacated later on.

gumby wrote:

EVCat wrote:

zonagrad wrote:The hypocrisy in all of this blows me away. Not condoning Book's actions or anyone else, but you'd be naive to think this hasn't been happening for decades. First and foremost, let's stop talking about the players and their families as victims. They're complicit. They shop schools through back channels. They all expect more than just a scholarship offer. It's been ingrained in the AAU system. To think that there are four crooked assistants and everyone else is pure as the driven snow is laughable.
Frankly, I don't really care if a player received money. It's been going on forever. And now the national debate is about playing athletes. The Black market has handled this for years. It's just a shame that Arizona could be punished when programs like Duke, UNC, Kansas all skate free is b.s.

We all know that. But the rules is the rules.

The best thing, frankly, would be to find out that this happened at 53 schools, or 137, or something that makes this an indictment of the shoe culture that we all know is dangerous as fuck. The more implicated the better for us.

Agree, but it looks like it will be contained to four, with others put on warning that they now "have the playbook." That's what I got from presser.

Of course, playbook will change.

There are currently 7. Arizona, USC, South Carolina, Ok. State, Miami, Auburn and Louisville.

carcassdragger wrote:Some of you guys are dreaming, which is almost as bad as some of you rationalizing and making excuses.

Miller is gone and should be. This is not the NCAA making allegations. It's a FBI corruption case with people having been arrested. It's an embarrassment for our university and it's alumni. Just shameful.

I'll wait a bit, but it looks like I'll be removing my proud alumni stickers.

Why can't we have nice things?

So far it is one person, wait to let things play out.

Good lord we are absolutely fucked.

Beachcat97 wrote:So if a current player is involved in all of this, there's no way that player is on the roster this year, right? Any games he plays in could be vacated later on.

Yes if that's discovered. They just mentioned it as of now. Of course if Book talks it'd be over

ChooChooCat wrote:Good lord we are absolutely fucked.

no no no, expand.

NYCat wrote:

Merkin wrote:

Rawle

I totally forgot about that and then later wished it out of my head.

Likely Rawle. Then the other two players (6 and 7) would be Trier and Ayton - though there's no allegation they were paid.

If they can prove it and prove Rawle knew about the payments, Rawle would be DQ'd for good and we'd vacate all of last year.

However, they'd have to be able to prove Rawle knew - otherwise we'd get the Cam Newton treatment (small suspension for Rawle, parents have to pay back the money).

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

gumby wrote:

EVCat wrote:

zonagrad wrote:The hypocrisy in all of this blows me away. Not condoning Book's actions or anyone else, but you'd be naive to think this hasn't been happening for decades. First and foremost, let's stop talking about the players and their families as victims. They're complicit. They shop schools through back channels. They all expect more than just a scholarship offer. It's been ingrained in the AAU system. To think that there are four crooked assistants and everyone else is pure as the driven snow is laughable.
Frankly, I don't really care if a player received money. It's been going on forever. And now the national debate is about playing athletes. The Black market has handled this for years. It's just a shame that Arizona could be punished when programs like Duke, UNC, Kansas all skate free is b.s.

We all know that. But the rules is the rules.

The best thing, frankly, would be to find out that this happened at 53 schools, or 137, or something that makes this an indictment of the shoe culture that we all know is dangerous as fuck. The more implicated the better for us.

Agree, but it looks like it will be contained to four, with others put on warning that they now "have the playbook." That's what I got from presser.

Of course, playbook will change.

There are currently 7. Arizona, USC, South Carolina, Ok. State, Miami, Auburn and Louisville.

Thanks

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketbal ... _sign.html" target="_blank

Brian Bowen!

Merkin wrote:

are we university 4?

SunnyAZ wrote:

Merkin wrote:

are we university 4?

Yes

A1RZONA wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Good lord we are absolutely fucked.

no no no, expand.

No inside info, just me reading every thing. The Nassir Little recruitment implications, all of it, this is just a fucked situation that I don't know how we can recover from as a program in the near term.

ChooChooCat wrote:

A1RZONA wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Good lord we are absolutely fucked.

no no no, expand.

No inside info, just me reading every thing. The Nassir Little recruitment implications, all of it, this is just a fucked situation that I don't know how we can recover from as a program in the near term.

ok thanks for the clarity. things were going so well, and now we cant have nice things.

Let's calm down a bit

Why do I fear what the NCAA will do more then the FBI in this situation?

Main Event wrote:Let's calm down a bit

LOL

Love your sentiment. Zero chance.

YoDeFoe wrote:"I can got to Arizona's practices like I'm on the team..." said the head of the bribery ring

"The coaches, that's the easiest thing, because I know them all - were friends." Again in reference to Arizona

Miller is notorious for running a tight ship and not even letting people in during shoot around. This is bad.

Bear Down Vegas wrote:

Main Event wrote:Let's calm down a bit

LOL

Love your sentiment. Zero chance.

The program isn't dying and this isn't the end of the world like some are making it out to be. Let shit play out

This season is already tainted, it'll get vacated by NCAA if we don't do a self imposed post season ban along w scholarship reduction.

Unfortunately there's at least one paid player on roster. Pretty much play, hope the team accomplishes something of note and the only thing the NCAA can't take away is the memories.