Bear Down Wildcats

KaibabKat wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:58 pm

97cats wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:01 pm 32mins - 11pts - 4-8fg - 1-2(3pt) - 2-3ft - 8rbs - 2a - 0blk - 5st - 1to

23.8 Bird Score

where does that lands him on the scale of poor/average/good/great in terms of his BIRD score?

Benn with no FGs the first half is worth calling out. Not sure why people think he was Michael Jordan out there.

pretty sure they triangle an' two'd him out the gate and Arizona had to adjust. still had a very good game in other ways and extends his double figure scoring streak to nine games and shot 50% from the floor - five steals and nine boards is worth noting too.

97cats wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:00 pm

KaibabKat wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:58 pm

97cats wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 9:01 pm 32mins - 11pts - 4-8fg - 1-2(3pt) - 2-3ft - 8rbs - 2a - 0blk - 5st - 1to

23.8 Bird Score

where does that lands him on the scale of poor/average/good/great in terms of his BIRD score?

13-14 would be pretty much average for all D1 players - fairly analogous to Holinger's PER but more easily calculated.

Great - some examples:
24.7 Sean Elliot (Sr.)
23.5 Bison Dele (Jr.)
24.6 Chris Mills (Sr.)
21.3 Mike Bibby (So.)
18.6 Chase Budinger (Jr.)
25.1 Derrick Williams (So.)
29.9 Deandre Ayton (Fr.)

97cats wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:19 pm pretty sure they triangle an' two'd him out the gate and Arizona had to adjust. still had a very good game in other ways and extends his double figure scoring streak to nine games and shot 50% from the floor - five steals and nine boards is worth noting too.

Yep, thats exactly what they did. Double Mathurin and dare Dylan Terry to beat them.

I suspect it won't be the last time we see it either.

Not just triangle and two but actually face guarded both Benn and Kerr and dared the other players left wide open for the most part to beat them.

As CTL said in his presser you have to find other ways to affect the game and Benn's rebounding/put backs broke the game open.

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:57 am Not just triangle and two but actually face guarded both Benn and Kerr and dared the other players left wide open for the most part to beat them.

As CTL said in his presser you have to find other ways to affect the game and Benn's rebounding/put backs broke the game open.

Exactly and I think CTL kept Benn out for an extra rotation to see if they were going to change the look with Kerr off the floor. As soon as Ben subbed out, they went to a 2-3 zone and got lit up pretty quickly. Benn was too stagnant in the first half and did a lot of standing around the perimeter.

On a positive note, despite being zoned all game, the Cats shot over 60% from 2 and killed them on the interior.

SabinoDrifter wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:16 am

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:57 am Not just triangle and two but actually face guarded both Benn and Kerr and dared the other players left wide open for the most part to beat them.

As CTL said in his presser you have to find other ways to affect the game and Benn's rebounding/put backs broke the game open.

Exactly and I think CTL kept Benn out for an extra rotation to see if they were going to change the look with Kerr off the floor. As soon as Ben subbed out, they went to a 2-3 zone and got lit up pretty quickly. Benn was too stagnant in the first half and did a lot of standing around the perimeter.

On a positive note, despite being zoned all game, the Cats shot over 60% from 2 and killed them on the interior.

Also, it's good they "threw the kitchen sink" at us so the coaching staff can prepare the team accordingly in bigger more important games down the road.

I said he gets off the floor like Jordan and he has the same frame as Jordan and Kobi. Benn is 19.. obviously a long ways from any of those two but geez what a beautiful basketball player.

I liked he never forced things. He took what was given. Probably could have been a little more aggressive.

Pelle is the one pissing me off.

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:18 am

SabinoDrifter wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:16 am

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:57 am Not just triangle and two but actually face guarded both Benn and Kerr and dared the other players left wide open for the most part to beat them.

As CTL said in his presser you have to find other ways to affect the game and Benn's rebounding/put backs broke the game open.

Exactly and I think CTL kept Benn out for an extra rotation to see if they were going to change the look with Kerr off the floor. As soon as Ben subbed out, they went to a 2-3 zone and got lit up pretty quickly. Benn was too stagnant in the first half and did a lot of standing around the perimeter.

On a positive note, despite being zoned all game, the Cats shot over 60% from 2 and killed them on the interior.

Also, it's good they "threw the kitchen sink" at us so the coaching staff can prepare the team accordingly in bigger more important games down the road.

One advantage we have is there was zero tape on Lloyd as a HC or this team in his schemes entering this year. Opponents don't yet have a playbook on us, it seems like.

Seeing different looks from opponents matters for development. No matter how good a scheme is, it has weaknesses and eventually there's going to be a book on how to handle us.

That's when things really get interesting, when counters become necessary. It's interesting to think from an opponent's perspective on how to beat us.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:36 am

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:18 am

SabinoDrifter wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:16 am

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:57 am Not just triangle and two but actually face guarded both Benn and Kerr and dared the other players left wide open for the most part to beat them.

As CTL said in his presser you have to find other ways to affect the game and Benn's rebounding/put backs broke the game open.

Exactly and I think CTL kept Benn out for an extra rotation to see if they were going to change the look with Kerr off the floor. As soon as Ben subbed out, they went to a 2-3 zone and got lit up pretty quickly. Benn was too stagnant in the first half and did a lot of standing around the perimeter.

On a positive note, despite being zoned all game, the Cats shot over 60% from 2 and killed them on the interior.

Also, it's good they "threw the kitchen sink" at us so the coaching staff can prepare the team accordingly in bigger more important games down the road.

One advantage we have is there was zero tape on Lloyd as a HC or this team in his schemes entering this year. Opponents don't yet have a playbook on us, it seems like.

Seeing different looks from opponents matters for development. No matter how good a scheme is, it has weaknesses and eventually there's going to be a book on how to handle us.

That's when things really get interesting, when counters become necessary. It's interesting to think from an opponent's perspective on how to beat us.

And how well Lloyd will counter their counters. Love the coaching chess game that will eventually hit CTL especially when talent faces talent.
We got a glimpse vs. Michigan, WSU and Illinois but much more to come especially in March when it will be survive and advance.

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:54 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:36 am One advantage we have is there was zero tape on Lloyd as a HC or this team in his schemes entering this year. Opponents don't yet have a playbook on us, it seems like.

Seeing different looks from opponents matters for development. No matter how good a scheme is, it has weaknesses and eventually there's going to be a book on how to handle us.

That's when things really get interesting, when counters become necessary. It's interesting to think from an opponent's perspective on how to beat us.

And how well Lloyd will counter their counters. Love the coaching chess game that will eventually hit CTL especially when talent faces talent.
We got a glimpse vs. Michigan, WSU and Illinois but much more to come especially in March when it will be survive and advance.

Yes. Fairly and unfairly, that was something that recurred with Miller. There was the idea that teams that understood how to beat his schemes and had the personnel to do so succeeded because Miller struggled with counters.

Right now, Lloyd is seeing a first round of counters. Stuff like NoCo, I mean, they could coach the right counters and still get drilled off talent differential.

When the LA schools come to McKale in early February, that will be interesting. They'll have tape, good rosters and be on their second round vs Lloyd. That's when you expect they'll be ready to attack your schemes. I tend to think UCLA and SC both have the personnel for how I'd attack our D.

Bordercat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:30 am Pelle is the one pissing me off.

I think Kier will be getting a lot of his minutes.

Larsson's 3 PT shooting percentage 28.6% is down from 46.3% last season.

Kier is shooting 34.5% 3PT but has a 2.3/0.7 A/TO rate which is just incredible. Larsson is 1.6/1.2 and to tell you the truth, didn't even think it was that good.

Tubelis needs to stop the 3 point shooting too, 25% down from 31%.

Merkin wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:46 pm

Bordercat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:30 am Pelle is the one pissing me off.

I think Kier will be getting a lot of his minutes.

Larsson's 3 PT shooting percentage 28.6% is down from 46.3% last season.

Kier is shooting 34.5% 3PT but has a 2.3/0.7 A/TO rate which is just incredible. Larsson is 1.6/1.2 and to tell you the truth, didn't even think it was that good.

Tubelis needs to stop the 3 point shooting too, 25% down from 31%.

At 1.6 per game, I'd let Tubelis keep shooting. He's the strongest across the board and can make them. He's not jacking 7 or 8 per game and really hurting much if they don't fall. In fact, last year, he made 0.5 threes on 1.6 attempts per game. This year it's 0.4 on 1.6. At his low rate of shooting, it's just a miss here or there difference.

Good point Spiff, thought it was more than that.

Merkin wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:14 pm Good point Spiff, thought it was more than that.

The small sample size also means that one or two shots rimming out has a huge impact on his %. He's 4 for 16 on threes. If he made one more shot he'd jump to 31% like last year. Make 2 more and he's an excellent 3 point shooter at .375%.

Shooting better is always good though. I'd ride with him until it goes much further and the % is still low at least, though.

I’m more worried about Tubelis’ free throws not his three’s.

Now back to Benn…

30mins - 14pts - 5-11fg - 3-8(3pt) - 1-1ft - 2rbs - 2a - 1blk - 0st - 1to

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:42 pm I’m more worried about Tubelis’ free throws not his three’s.

5-6!

Although still clanking 3 pointers.

97cats wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:02 pm 30mins - 14pts - 5-11fg - 3-8(3pt) - 1-1ft - 2rbs - 2a - 1blk - 0st - 1to

Bird score = 14.7.
Rather average game.

36mins - 28pts - 8-16fg - 3-9(3pt) - 9-11ft - 8rb - 5a - 2st - 0blk - 2to

with a third of the season complete, Bennedict Mathurin is a First Team All-American

It seemed like half the game Benn had 50% of the points, and the only starter to score.

97cats wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:25 am 36mins - 28pts - 8-16fg - 3-9(3pt) - 9-11ft - 8rb - 5a - 2st - 0blk - 2to

with a third of the season complete, Bennedict Mathurin is a First Team All-American

Amen.

97cats wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:25 am 36mins - 28pts - 8-16fg - 3-9(3pt) - 9-11ft - 8rb - 5a - 2st - 0blk - 2to

33.3 Bird Score. KenPom MVP - his fourth of the season.

97cats wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 7:25 am 36mins - 28pts - 8-16fg - 3-9(3pt) - 9-11ft - 8rb - 5a - 2st - 0blk - 2to

with a third of the season complete, Bennedict Mathurin is a First Team All-American

If Benn doesn't have an all-world game last night, we lose by 25. If my memory serves me correctly, we had 7 points in the first half by players other than Benn. 7.

Just a tremendous, high efficiency game by Benn. His first half rivaled what DWill did vs Duke in 2011 keeping us in it.

Such an amazing player. Of course I’m not saying he’s the goat but his body, confident outside stroke, and smooth and seemingly effortless athleticism legit reminds me of a young Michael Jordan. Easily the best player on the floor yesterday.

I am just enjoying every minute he’s in an Arizona uniform.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2022-nba-m ... 24346.html

#8th pick in this mock draft

azcat49 wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:04 pm https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2022-nba-m ... 24346.html

#8th pick in this mock draft

I’ve seen him projected as high as 5th. I think the guys projected ahead of him have their work cut out to keep proving they’re better prospects.

Wherever he goes, I could see him going ahead of ivey, I think he does well in the league, I think he is more league ready than even Aaron Gordon was.

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 12:14 pm Wherever he goes, I could see him going ahead of ivey, I think he does well in the league, I think he is more league ready than even Aaron Gordon was.

Totally. If Benn’s defense is on point from the get go, he’s about as pro-ready a player in the country right now. It would not surprise me to see him ultimately drafted in the top 3. His game is already that good, and physically, he’s ready now.

Beachcat97 wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:01 pm

azcat49 wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 8:04 pm https://www.yahoo.com/sports/2022-nba-m ... 24346.html

#8th pick in this mock draft

I’ve seen him projected as high as 5th. I think the guys projected ahead of him have their work cut out to keep proving they’re better prospects.

Baldwin has the tools but hasn't been helping himself this year. In that mock, I could easily see Benn jumping him.

Banchero, Smith, Holmgren and Duren are different just because they have such different positional and size abilities. If a team needs a 4/5, those are your guys, not Benn, which is just a fit thing.

Hardy and Ivey are interesting. I like both of them as the good type of combo guard. They've both got the physicality to be very good wing defenders but are almost PG size/speed. Benn is more a pure wing, albeit a really good one.

I could see teams like the Magic or Pistons wanting the positional flexibility Hardy or Ivey bring. That would be the only thing with Benn, I don't see him as an option to share in playmaker duties, he's a finisher and I wouldn't have him initiating offense at this point.

Ivey and Benn both made a leap this season, though. You talk about them as the two guys who really moved themselves up by showing out so far.

Posted on FB Arizona Wildcats Basketball:

@realbm11 leads the country in scoring in true road games at 29.0ppg (min. 3 games).
He is 3rd in the country at 25.6ppg in road+neutral games combined (min. 3 games).
And he's 2nd in the Pac-12 in scoring for the entire season (18.3ppg).

33mins - 27pts - 10-16fg - 4-9(3pt) - 3-4ft - 6rb - 2a - 1st - 0blk -2to

Never seen a player so dominate a game since Brian Williams/Bison Dele, and only when he got mad.

Merkin wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:41 am Never seen a player so dominate a game since Brian Williams/Bison Dele, and only when he got mad.

Salim was no slouch...

Merkin wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:41 am Never seen a player so dominate a game since Brian Williams/Bison Dele, and only when he got mad.

Must have missed Salim at Kansas. Love Benn but not close. Benn just looks effortless every time he plays. Remarkable player.

Oh yes, never forget Salim's shot v. UCLA. Just give me the ball and get out of my way.

Merkin wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:18 am Oh yes, never forget Salim's shot v. UCLA. Just give me the ball and get out of my way.

The winner against Okie State in the Sweet 16 game was even more impressive.

EastCoastCat wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:04 am

Merkin wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:41 am Never seen a player so dominate a game since Brian Williams/Bison Dele, and only when he got mad.

Salim was no slouch...

Nor was Derrick Williams his soph year. Duke game? Lordy.

Appreciating the love for Salim the last few posts. That guy was easily the most lethal offensive player I've seen at AZ.

Others that come to mind:

D-Will
JET
Damon
Arenas

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:39 am Appreciating the love for Salim the last few posts. That guy was easily the most lethal offensive player I've seen at AZ.

Others that come to mind:

D-Will
JET
Damon
Arenas

Miller era tends to coincide with PER, and DWill and Ayton are a clear 1/2 during that time.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/le ... eason.html

Those two were dominant. I'd drop in Trier as #3 during Miller's time.

Arenas is interesting in that he was a vastly better pro scorer and probably on a team that was too balanced for him to shine. Terry really broke out as a senior.

I always classify Damon as the most underrated guy in Arizona history. 22.8 ppg, 7.3 apg on .465% from three as a senior is just insane. Salim was probably the best shooter in Arizona history, but Damon's senior season is right with Salim and he was so much more dynamic a playmaker.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:48 am Salim was probably the best shooter in Arizona history, but Damon's senior season is right with Salim and he was so much more dynamic a playmaker.

Agree 100%. Damon was done at AZ a little before I got there, but I do remember watching his last couple seasons. He was unreal as a senior. Probably among the best seniors in program history.

right there as it stands for NPOY and in line to become a First Team All-American

on the season:

HOME: 30mpg - 15.9ppg - 47.9fg - 35.1(3)pt - 80.6ft - 6.4rb - 2a - .4blk - 1st - 1.9to
AWAY: 35mpg - 29ppg - 56.9fg - 46.2(3)pt - 77.3ft - 7rb - 2.3a - 0blk - 1.3st - 2.7to

WichST/Mich/Wyoming/Ill/Tenn: 36.6mpg - 24.6ppg - 55.8fg - 40.4(3)pt - 76.7ft - 8rb - 2.4a - .2blk - 1st - 1.3to

Merkin wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:40 pm

Brnn is pretty good, it's also probably a result of Gonzaga not having many dynamic wings. Suggs was more of a combo guard and beyond that, Gonzaga really never had an athletic 6'5-6'8 type wing.

Merkin wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:40 pm

Obviously, he didn't coach Oscar Robertson, eh??

Benn is going to be a top 5 pick.

Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:40 pm Benn is going to be a top 5 pick.

Never been happier to be wrong