Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:26 pm
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This is an incredibly idiotic take. "Streaming is the future"AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:51 am Haven't listened to the latest Marchand and Ourand podcast yet, but from what I understand, the PAC is down to less money to be on the 4th window on ESPN with Amazon as the streaming partner for a GOW, with everything else on the PAC-12 network. Or, take about 10 million more to be exclusive with Apple TV. I know it's not a popular opinion here, but I do the the Steve Miller Band, and, "Take the Money and Run."
Just because something is new, doesn't mean it's destined to fail. Apple TV also has some positives, like the complete MLS contract, and a deal with DirecTv already in place to broadcast in all sports bars (https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/mls-game ... 20504.html). If Apple gets the PAC, I would imagine this deal with DTV Business will be reworked to get all PAC games in sports bars as well.
Streaming is the future. It was rumored last May that Disney is considering making ESPN full streaming (https://whatsondisneyplus.com/espn-gett ... streaming/), and the number I've heard is it will start the transition when ESPN is down to 50 million cable subscribers. At its peak, ESPN had over 100 million. That's now down to 75 million, with ESPN losing an average of 8 to 10 million cable subscribers a year. Do the math, and by the time the next SEC and BIG12 contracts roll around, ESPN will likely be transitioning to an all streaming network.
Please don't insult me with the suicide talk. College sports isn't life or death, and for those of us who have had family members who have committed suicide, your statement is beyond #%%$@^@ offensive!dmjcat wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:35 pmThis is an incredibly idiotic take. "Streaming is the future"AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:51 am Haven't listened to the latest Marchand and Ourand podcast yet, but from what I understand, the PAC is down to less money to be on the 4th window on ESPN with Amazon as the streaming partner for a GOW, with everything else on the PAC-12 network. Or, take about 10 million more to be exclusive with Apple TV. I know it's not a popular opinion here, but I do the the Steve Miller Band, and, "Take the Money and Run."
Just because something is new, doesn't mean it's destined to fail. Apple TV also has some positives, like the complete MLS contract, and a deal with DirecTv already in place to broadcast in all sports bars (https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/mls-game ... 20504.html). If Apple gets the PAC, I would imagine this deal with DTV Business will be reworked to get all PAC games in sports bars as well.
Streaming is the future. It was rumored last May that Disney is considering making ESPN full streaming (https://whatsondisneyplus.com/espn-gett ... streaming/), and the number I've heard is it will start the transition when ESPN is down to 50 million cable subscribers. At its peak, ESPN had over 100 million. That's now down to 75 million, with ESPN losing an average of 8 to 10 million cable subscribers a year. Do the math, and by the time the next SEC and BIG12 contracts roll around, ESPN will likely be transitioning to an all streaming network.
Using your logic we should all commit suicide now because we are all going to die in the future anyway.
Here's a different idea.......lets switch to a conference (B12) which keeps us off streaming for a number of years and pays us just as much as the P12 alternative.
Please don't insult the board with your so-called "Logic"AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:37 pmPlease don't insult me with the suicide talk. College sports isn't life or death, and for those of us who have had family members who have committed suicide, your statement is beyond #%%$@^@ offensive!dmjcat wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:35 pmThis is an incredibly idiotic take. "Streaming is the future"AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:51 am Haven't listened to the latest Marchand and Ourand podcast yet, but from what I understand, the PAC is down to less money to be on the 4th window on ESPN with Amazon as the streaming partner for a GOW, with everything else on the PAC-12 network. Or, take about 10 million more to be exclusive with Apple TV. I know it's not a popular opinion here, but I do the the Steve Miller Band, and, "Take the Money and Run."
Just because something is new, doesn't mean it's destined to fail. Apple TV also has some positives, like the complete MLS contract, and a deal with DirecTv already in place to broadcast in all sports bars (https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/mls-game ... 20504.html). If Apple gets the PAC, I would imagine this deal with DTV Business will be reworked to get all PAC games in sports bars as well.
Streaming is the future. It was rumored last May that Disney is considering making ESPN full streaming (https://whatsondisneyplus.com/espn-gett ... streaming/), and the number I've heard is it will start the transition when ESPN is down to 50 million cable subscribers. At its peak, ESPN had over 100 million. That's now down to 75 million, with ESPN losing an average of 8 to 10 million cable subscribers a year. Do the math, and by the time the next SEC and BIG12 contracts roll around, ESPN will likely be transitioning to an all streaming network.
Using your logic we should all commit suicide now because we are all going to die in the future anyway.
Here's a different idea.......lets switch to a conference (B12) which keeps us off streaming for a number of years and pays us just as much as the P12 alternative.
The logic is, by all accounts, every conference is going to be mostly streaming come the next contract. The only games not streaming will be on OTA channels like Fox and ABC. ESPN will likely be 100% streaming sometime by 2030.
We also don't know the value of the Apple deal. It could be $5 million more a year than the BIG12? If it is, it's worth it. In five years, we'd have $25 million more in the bank, and have an exclusive streaming partner, while the BIG12 might be fighting for scraps on ESPN+. And Apple already has a deal with DTV Business. ESPN+ does not.
If the Apple deal is worth less than the BIG12, then we should seriously consider going. But once we go BIG12, we're likely there for a long, long time. And the college sports landscape is likely going to change significantly in the next 10 years. Staying in the PAC, if it gives us more money, also offers us more flexibility. Not to mention, more UA students and alumni live in PAC states like CA and WA versus anything the BIG12 has to offer. Only the DFW offers any large UA alum presence in BIG12 country, and we are likely adding SMU.
Bull. Not only should we think about today, but we should plan around the future. ESPN's current model is dying. Disney CEO Iger has already stated that ESPN will still pay for must have content, but may not be willing to pay for nice to have content. It's why ESPN let the MLS go to Apple, lock stock and barrel. At around 350,000 viewers a game (about the same as NHL games), the MLS was nice for ESPN to have, but nowhere near a must have.dmjcat wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:56 pmPlease don't insult the board with your so-called "Logic"AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:37 pmPlease don't insult me with the suicide talk. College sports isn't life or death, and for those of us who have had family members who have committed suicide, your statement is beyond #%%$@^@ offensive!dmjcat wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:35 pmThis is an incredibly idiotic take. "Streaming is the future"AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:51 am Haven't listened to the latest Marchand and Ourand podcast yet, but from what I understand, the PAC is down to less money to be on the 4th window on ESPN with Amazon as the streaming partner for a GOW, with everything else on the PAC-12 network. Or, take about 10 million more to be exclusive with Apple TV. I know it's not a popular opinion here, but I do the the Steve Miller Band, and, "Take the Money and Run."
Just because something is new, doesn't mean it's destined to fail. Apple TV also has some positives, like the complete MLS contract, and a deal with DirecTv already in place to broadcast in all sports bars (https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/mls-game ... 20504.html). If Apple gets the PAC, I would imagine this deal with DTV Business will be reworked to get all PAC games in sports bars as well.
Streaming is the future. It was rumored last May that Disney is considering making ESPN full streaming (https://whatsondisneyplus.com/espn-gett ... streaming/), and the number I've heard is it will start the transition when ESPN is down to 50 million cable subscribers. At its peak, ESPN had over 100 million. That's now down to 75 million, with ESPN losing an average of 8 to 10 million cable subscribers a year. Do the math, and by the time the next SEC and BIG12 contracts roll around, ESPN will likely be transitioning to an all streaming network.
Using your logic we should all commit suicide now because we are all going to die in the future anyway.
Here's a different idea.......lets switch to a conference (B12) which keeps us off streaming for a number of years and pays us just as much as the P12 alternative.
The logic is, by all accounts, every conference is going to be mostly streaming come the next contract. The only games not streaming will be on OTA channels like Fox and ABC. ESPN will likely be 100% streaming sometime by 2030.
We also don't know the value of the Apple deal. It could be $5 million more a year than the BIG12? If it is, it's worth it. In five years, we'd have $25 million more in the bank, and have an exclusive streaming partner, while the BIG12 might be fighting for scraps on ESPN+. And Apple already has a deal with DTV Business. ESPN+ does not.
If the Apple deal is worth less than the BIG12, then we should seriously consider going. But once we go BIG12, we're likely there for a long, long time. And the college sports landscape is likely going to change significantly in the next 10 years. Staying in the PAC, if it gives us more money, also offers us more flexibility. Not to mention, more UA students and alumni live in PAC states like CA and WA versus anything the BIG12 has to offer. Only the DFW offers any large UA alum presence in BIG12 country, and we are likely adding SMU.
There is NO logic.....zip.........nada in moving to a streaming option which buries/hides your athletic programs. Even if inevitable we should delay that as long as possible.
I hope you see the irony in your post. Why works I predict the future? You did exactly that by predicting the PAC will become the Mt. West if we sign the deal with Apple.CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:13 pm Why someone would be so married to the Pac12 that they’d pretend to be able to predict the future is beyond me.
All I do know is that if the PAC adds SMU and SDSU and then signs a deal with Apple, for the vast majority of sports entertainment fans, the league will basically cease to exist. The next half decade will bury us so deep in a black hole of nothingness we’ll be begging the Mountain West to take us.
This is amazing. You out did yourself with this one.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:26 pmI hope you see the irony in your post. Why works I predict the future? You did exactly that by predicting the PAC will become the Mt. West if we sign the deal with Apple.CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:13 pm Why someone would be so married to the Pac12 that they’d pretend to be able to predict the future is beyond me.
All I do know is that if the PAC adds SMU and SDSU and then signs a deal with Apple, for the vast majority of sports entertainment fans, the league will basically cease to exist. The next half decade will bury us so deep in a black hole of nothingness we’ll be begging the Mountain West to take us.
Know why Apple signed MLS and overpaid for the League? Soccer is a growing sport in the US with several already successful streaming deals. Premiere League on Peacock and The Champions League on Paramount. Streaming viewers also tend to be younger, and all sports leagues want to capture younger audiences. If Apple does this right, they will grow the MLS audience and set themselves up with younger viewers that will watch for years.
Why might Apple be interested in the PAC? Seattle and Portland are both top 6 in MLS attendance, and both LA teams average over 20k a game. There is potential synergy there. And with a potentially younger audience.
And predicting the current ESPN model is dying isn't difficult. They are losing millions of subscribers a year, and face increased costs. The BIG12 is far below in pecking order behind the SEC. No guarantee that by next round of contract negotiations, ESPN will have interest in the BIG12. We sign with the BIG12 now, we're likely stuck with them regardless.
I actually predict the PAC will be a lesser conference than the Mountain West.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:26 pmI hope you see the irony in your post. Why works I predict the future? You did exactly that by predicting the PAC will become the Mt. West if we sign the deal with Apple.CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:13 pm Why someone would be so married to the Pac12 that they’d pretend to be able to predict the future is beyond me.
All I do know is that if the PAC adds SMU and SDSU and then signs a deal with Apple, for the vast majority of sports entertainment fans, the league will basically cease to exist. The next half decade will bury us so deep in a black hole of nothingness we’ll be begging the Mountain West to take us.
Single Minded????AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:31 pmBull. Not only should we think about today, but we should plan around the future. ESPN's current model is dying. Disney CEO Iger has already stated that ESPN will still pay for must have content, but may not be willing to pay for nice to have content. It's why ESPN let the MLS go to Apple, lock stock and barrel. At around 350,000 viewers a game (about the same as NHL games), the MLS was nice for ESPN to have, but nowhere near a must have.dmjcat wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:56 pmPlease don't insult the board with your so-called "Logic"AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 3:37 pmPlease don't insult me with the suicide talk. College sports isn't life or death, and for those of us who have had family members who have committed suicide, your statement is beyond #%%$@^@ offensive!dmjcat wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:35 pmThis is an incredibly idiotic take. "Streaming is the future"AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:51 am Haven't listened to the latest Marchand and Ourand podcast yet, but from what I understand, the PAC is down to less money to be on the 4th window on ESPN with Amazon as the streaming partner for a GOW, with everything else on the PAC-12 network. Or, take about 10 million more to be exclusive with Apple TV. I know it's not a popular opinion here, but I do the the Steve Miller Band, and, "Take the Money and Run."
Just because something is new, doesn't mean it's destined to fail. Apple TV also has some positives, like the complete MLS contract, and a deal with DirecTv already in place to broadcast in all sports bars (https://worldsoccertalk.com/tv/mls-game ... 20504.html). If Apple gets the PAC, I would imagine this deal with DTV Business will be reworked to get all PAC games in sports bars as well.
Streaming is the future. It was rumored last May that Disney is considering making ESPN full streaming (https://whatsondisneyplus.com/espn-gett ... streaming/), and the number I've heard is it will start the transition when ESPN is down to 50 million cable subscribers. At its peak, ESPN had over 100 million. That's now down to 75 million, with ESPN losing an average of 8 to 10 million cable subscribers a year. Do the math, and by the time the next SEC and BIG12 contracts roll around, ESPN will likely be transitioning to an all streaming network.
Using your logic we should all commit suicide now because we are all going to die in the future anyway.
Here's a different idea.......lets switch to a conference (B12) which keeps us off streaming for a number of years and pays us just as much as the P12 alternative.
The logic is, by all accounts, every conference is going to be mostly streaming come the next contract. The only games not streaming will be on OTA channels like Fox and ABC. ESPN will likely be 100% streaming sometime by 2030.
We also don't know the value of the Apple deal. It could be $5 million more a year than the BIG12? If it is, it's worth it. In five years, we'd have $25 million more in the bank, and have an exclusive streaming partner, while the BIG12 might be fighting for scraps on ESPN+. And Apple already has a deal with DTV Business. ESPN+ does not.
If the Apple deal is worth less than the BIG12, then we should seriously consider going. But once we go BIG12, we're likely there for a long, long time. And the college sports landscape is likely going to change significantly in the next 10 years. Staying in the PAC, if it gives us more money, also offers us more flexibility. Not to mention, more UA students and alumni live in PAC states like CA and WA versus anything the BIG12 has to offer. Only the DFW offers any large UA alum presence in BIG12 country, and we are likely adding SMU.
There is NO logic.....zip.........nada in moving to a streaming option which buries/hides your athletic programs. Even if inevitable we should delay that as long as possible.
Now, fast forward four years. ESPN is paying more for SEC, BIG12, and other new contracts. And their revenue is down because another 20-25 million or so are no longer subscribing. ESPN is announcing they are going streaming only in the future, and even with their increased revenue from streaming, they aren't expected to make as much in 2030 as they are making today. Is the BIG12 must have content? Or, does ESPN consider them nice to have?
Staying in the PAC also gives us more flexibility in the future. If the 4-corners sign with the BIG12, they will likely make us sign a Grant of Rights longer than their current TV contract, binding us to the BIG12 for a long time. The next round of contracts, ESPN will still must have the SEC, but maybe they want the SEC to be coast-to-coast, which would allow ESPN to drop the BIG12 and pick up Oregon, Washington, and a few others. This is something ESPN would have considered this go-round, but the SEC wanted nothing of it. And with a signed contract already, ESPN had no leverage to force the SEC's hand. Things may be different in a few years.
There's logic to staying. You are just too single minded to see it. There's also logic to going, and yes, part of that is staving off the switch to full streaming for a few years. But is that really worth it if we're stuck in the BIG12 for a long time with no other options? And our Tier 3 games are streaming on ESPN+ anyway? Not in my opinion. Especially considering that ESPN is still looking for cost cutting options in the future, the BIG12 will likely be high on the chopping block list when their next contract runs out.
Yes, I guess motivations and future events. But I back my predictions based on events and market trends. Using the word petition might have been too strong for UW and Oregon's dealing with the B1G, but the two schools had meetings with conference lawyers and representatives. That's not in dispute.CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:14 pmI actually predict the PAC will be a lesser conference than the Mountain West.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:26 pmI hope you see the irony in your post. Why works I predict the future? You did exactly that by predicting the PAC will become the Mt. West if we sign the deal with Apple.CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 8:13 pm Why someone would be so married to the Pac12 that they’d pretend to be able to predict the future is beyond me.
All I do know is that if the PAC adds SMU and SDSU and then signs a deal with Apple, for the vast majority of sports entertainment fans, the league will basically cease to exist. The next half decade will bury us so deep in a black hole of nothingness we’ll be begging the Mountain West to take us.
The difference between you and I is that I readily acknowledge that my opinion is informed conjecture. You on the other hand have invented a world where you know the motivations, maneuvers, and outcomes for everyone from Disney to Nike. You even made up a scenario where Oregon and Washington formally petitioned to join the B1G. It’s quite literally breathtaking. Especially in defense of this shitty conference that fucked over its member institutions way too many times both with inexcusable inaction and misguided actions.
I don't think being on Apple will kill us. More and more live sports are already streaming. More will come. And Tier 3 rights for the BIG12 are streaming on ESPN+, along with the NHL, XFL, woman’s College basketball, college lacrosse, and a lot of other sports nobody cares about. Not to mention the risk of tying our future long term to the BIG12, which may find itself in a very similar situation the PAC is currently in when the next round of TV contract negotiations come up. And Apple may not be there to save them.CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:33 pm You’d rather wait to see if streaming for five years on Apple kills us than align ourselves with the preeminent sports entertainment property which will slowly roll out into a majority streaming platform but not before cementing the Arizona sports brand in the minds of fans literally everywhere.
Make it make sense.
I stopped reading there.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:44 pmI don't think being on Apple will kill us. More and more live sports are already streaming.CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:33 pm You’d rather wait to see if streaming for five years on Apple kills us than align ourselves with the preeminent sports entertainment property which will slowly roll out into a majority streaming platform but not before cementing the Arizona sports brand in the minds of fans literally everywhere.
Make it make sense.
Yes we know.
Your hatred for the PAC has blinded you from seeing that it still may be the best option for us. And sorry, but the possibility of playing Central Florida 10:00 AM local Tucson start on FS1, followed by a home game against Kansas starting at 7:30 PM streaming on ESPN+ doesn't excite me. These are the potential games, and where they are being broadcast, we are looking at if we join the BIG12. If I have the choice of taking more money and being on Apple as their only, exclusive college conference, I'm taking the risk, and the extra money.CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 6:28 amI stopped reading there.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:44 pmI don't think being on Apple will kill us. More and more live sports are already streaming.CardiacCats97 wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 10:33 pm You’d rather wait to see if streaming for five years on Apple kills us than align ourselves with the preeminent sports entertainment property which will slowly roll out into a majority streaming platform but not before cementing the Arizona sports brand in the minds of fans literally everywhere.
Make it make sense.
Apple WILL kill us.
It’s not whether our games are streamed or not, but how many, which matchups, and where those games are streamed.
Your love for the warm familiarity of this two-bit shitty conference has blinded you to that. Time to open your eyes.
What do you call ESPN's decision to bid only $40 million for 4 years for MLS, and not come close to matching the $250 million for 10 offered by Apple if that's not getting rid of live entertainment? And if the PAC signs with Apple and not with ESPN, how is that not cutting live entertainment? When times get really tough, there are only so many employees you can cut before you get down to total bare bones. If ESPN is cutting employees now, will there be an additional trough of employees to cut five years from now that ESPN deem unnecessary to make a difference to the bottom line? Or, will cuts have to come from elsewhere?CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:05 am When media companies need to cut costs they fire people. They don’t get rid of live entertainment which is the only medium where people still watch commercials (like HOURS of commercials). The idea that ESPN would “cut” the Big12 from their roster is ludicrous. ESPECIALLY if they are getting those coveted low-competition late night slots with teams like Utah and Arizona.
If Apple is a complete failure, our brand and notoriety will fall off a cliff. It’s not like we’d be able to point to our strong ratings and the rise in subscribers if the experiment is a failure. We’d be like the former hottie who went and lived in a trailer with a meth head and dropped all her social media only to pop up at a bar five years later having had two kids, put on 40 lbs, and developed a bad pill habit talking about “remember the fun we used to have?” The stink of failure and desperation will tarnish us for decades.
Wanna bet?
The PAC-12 Network is a sports network.AzCatFan2 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:17 amWhat do you call ESPN's decision to bid only $40 million for 4 years for MLS, and not come close to matching the $250 million for 10 offered by Apple if that's not getting rid of live entertainment? And if the PAC signs with Apple and not with ESPN, how is that not cutting live entertainment? When times get really tough, there are only so many employees you can cut before you get down to total bare bones. If ESPN is cutting employees now, will there be an additional trough of employees to cut five years from now that ESPN deem unnecessary to make a difference to the bottom line? Or, will cuts have to come from elsewhere?CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:05 am When media companies need to cut costs they fire people. They don’t get rid of live entertainment which is the only medium where people still watch commercials (like HOURS of commercials). The idea that ESPN would “cut” the Big12 from their roster is ludicrous. ESPECIALLY if they are getting those coveted low-competition late night slots with teams like Utah and Arizona.
If Apple is a complete failure, our brand and notoriety will fall off a cliff. It’s not like we’d be able to point to our strong ratings and the rise in subscribers if the experiment is a failure. We’d be like the former hottie who went and lived in a trailer with a meth head and dropped all her social media only to pop up at a bar five years later having had two kids, put on 40 lbs, and developed a bad pill habit talking about “remember the fun we used to have?” The stink of failure and desperation will tarnish us for decades.
And I don't see Apple to be a complete failure. We survived the PAC-12 Network, which has less subscribers than Apple and no visibility at all in sports bars except in PAC areas, where sports bars pay for Comcast/Cox in addition to DTV. Apple has a deal with DTV business, and has more subscribers. And again, which is better? Streaming on ESPN+ along with a ton of other junk, including other college conferences, or being the exclusive partner with Apple? I'd argue the latter.
Point taken. But Apple is also entering the sports entertainment market with Friday Night Baseball and Major League Soccer. And ESPN used to be a network that broadcast mini-golf and Outdoor Games competitions. Things change. Companies change too.CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:44 amThe PAC-12 Network is a sports network.AzCatFan2 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:17 amWhat do you call ESPN's decision to bid only $40 million for 4 years for MLS, and not come close to matching the $250 million for 10 offered by Apple if that's not getting rid of live entertainment? And if the PAC signs with Apple and not with ESPN, how is that not cutting live entertainment? When times get really tough, there are only so many employees you can cut before you get down to total bare bones. If ESPN is cutting employees now, will there be an additional trough of employees to cut five years from now that ESPN deem unnecessary to make a difference to the bottom line? Or, will cuts have to come from elsewhere?CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:05 am When media companies need to cut costs they fire people. They don’t get rid of live entertainment which is the only medium where people still watch commercials (like HOURS of commercials). The idea that ESPN would “cut” the Big12 from their roster is ludicrous. ESPECIALLY if they are getting those coveted low-competition late night slots with teams like Utah and Arizona.
If Apple is a complete failure, our brand and notoriety will fall off a cliff. It’s not like we’d be able to point to our strong ratings and the rise in subscribers if the experiment is a failure. We’d be like the former hottie who went and lived in a trailer with a meth head and dropped all her social media only to pop up at a bar five years later having had two kids, put on 40 lbs, and developed a bad pill habit talking about “remember the fun we used to have?” The stink of failure and desperation will tarnish us for decades.
And I don't see Apple to be a complete failure. We survived the PAC-12 Network, which has less subscribers than Apple and no visibility at all in sports bars except in PAC areas, where sports bars pay for Comcast/Cox in addition to DTV. Apple has a deal with DTV business, and has more subscribers. And again, which is better? Streaming on ESPN+ along with a ton of other junk, including other college conferences, or being the exclusive partner with Apple? I'd argue the latter.
ESPN is a sports network.
Apple is an electronics manufacturer with a small niche entertainment division.
C’mon man. ESPN didn’t start out making widgets and then decide to dabble in sports media. They also have a 40 year track record promoting the very thing we need to be promoted.AzCatFan2 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:39 pmPoint taken. But Apple is also entering the sports entertainment market with Friday Night Baseball and Major League Soccer. And ESPN used to be a network that broadcast mini-golf and Outdoor Games competitions. Things change. Companies change too.CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:44 amThe PAC-12 Network is a sports network.AzCatFan2 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:17 amWhat do you call ESPN's decision to bid only $40 million for 4 years for MLS, and not come close to matching the $250 million for 10 offered by Apple if that's not getting rid of live entertainment? And if the PAC signs with Apple and not with ESPN, how is that not cutting live entertainment? When times get really tough, there are only so many employees you can cut before you get down to total bare bones. If ESPN is cutting employees now, will there be an additional trough of employees to cut five years from now that ESPN deem unnecessary to make a difference to the bottom line? Or, will cuts have to come from elsewhere?CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:05 am When media companies need to cut costs they fire people. They don’t get rid of live entertainment which is the only medium where people still watch commercials (like HOURS of commercials). The idea that ESPN would “cut” the Big12 from their roster is ludicrous. ESPECIALLY if they are getting those coveted low-competition late night slots with teams like Utah and Arizona.
If Apple is a complete failure, our brand and notoriety will fall off a cliff. It’s not like we’d be able to point to our strong ratings and the rise in subscribers if the experiment is a failure. We’d be like the former hottie who went and lived in a trailer with a meth head and dropped all her social media only to pop up at a bar five years later having had two kids, put on 40 lbs, and developed a bad pill habit talking about “remember the fun we used to have?” The stink of failure and desperation will tarnish us for decades.
And I don't see Apple to be a complete failure. We survived the PAC-12 Network, which has less subscribers than Apple and no visibility at all in sports bars except in PAC areas, where sports bars pay for Comcast/Cox in addition to DTV. Apple has a deal with DTV business, and has more subscribers. And again, which is better? Streaming on ESPN+ along with a ton of other junk, including other college conferences, or being the exclusive partner with Apple? I'd argue the latter.
ESPN is a sports network.
Apple is an electronics manufacturer with a small niche entertainment division.
All in on Apple is being rejected by the university presidents. Even they can’t attempt to make the arguments for its positives.CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 3:52 pmC’mon man. ESPN didn’t start out making widgets and then decide to dabble in sports media. They also have a 40 year track record promoting the very thing we need to be promoted.AzCatFan2 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 12:39 pmPoint taken. But Apple is also entering the sports entertainment market with Friday Night Baseball and Major League Soccer. And ESPN used to be a network that broadcast mini-golf and Outdoor Games competitions. Things change. Companies change too.CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:44 amThe PAC-12 Network is a sports network.AzCatFan2 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:17 amWhat do you call ESPN's decision to bid only $40 million for 4 years for MLS, and not come close to matching the $250 million for 10 offered by Apple if that's not getting rid of live entertainment? And if the PAC signs with Apple and not with ESPN, how is that not cutting live entertainment? When times get really tough, there are only so many employees you can cut before you get down to total bare bones. If ESPN is cutting employees now, will there be an additional trough of employees to cut five years from now that ESPN deem unnecessary to make a difference to the bottom line? Or, will cuts have to come from elsewhere?CardiacCats97 wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:05 am When media companies need to cut costs they fire people. They don’t get rid of live entertainment which is the only medium where people still watch commercials (like HOURS of commercials). The idea that ESPN would “cut” the Big12 from their roster is ludicrous. ESPECIALLY if they are getting those coveted low-competition late night slots with teams like Utah and Arizona.
If Apple is a complete failure, our brand and notoriety will fall off a cliff. It’s not like we’d be able to point to our strong ratings and the rise in subscribers if the experiment is a failure. We’d be like the former hottie who went and lived in a trailer with a meth head and dropped all her social media only to pop up at a bar five years later having had two kids, put on 40 lbs, and developed a bad pill habit talking about “remember the fun we used to have?” The stink of failure and desperation will tarnish us for decades.
And I don't see Apple to be a complete failure. We survived the PAC-12 Network, which has less subscribers than Apple and no visibility at all in sports bars except in PAC areas, where sports bars pay for Comcast/Cox in addition to DTV. Apple has a deal with DTV business, and has more subscribers. And again, which is better? Streaming on ESPN+ along with a ton of other junk, including other college conferences, or being the exclusive partner with Apple? I'd argue the latter.
ESPN is a sports network.
Apple is an electronics manufacturer with a small niche entertainment division.
Amazon is a bad deal. Apple is an even worse one. Don’t let your desire to stick it out and see if the PAC can make it work cloud the fact that the deals they’ve been talking about are not good for the visibility of the conference and it’s member institutions.
In re UofA wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:35 pm If it’s down to ESPN as the only major media outlet with interest we are borked.
Why would ESPN pay for the rights to 10/12 Pac teams when it could force 4/6 desirable Pac schools to the Big12? They can maintain games in the pacific time zone without floating two conferences.
George better get CBS or Fox or NBC to reconsider.
Friendly reminder that Markets only matter to conference networks. ESPN doesn’t care that there’s two Bay Area schools in the PAC 12 if nobody in the Bay Area watches the PAC 12. Brands and competitive matchups matter in this environment. Markets do not. If markets mattered the PAC 12 would have a $40 million plus per TV deal even without the LA schools. We’re looking at $25 million, which is less than that conference with only DFW.GlobalCat wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:09 pmIn re UofA wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:35 pm If it’s down to ESPN as the only major media outlet with interest we are borked.
Why would ESPN pay for the rights to 10/12 Pac teams when it could force 4/6 desirable Pac schools to the Big12? They can maintain games in the pacific time zone without floating two conferences.
George better get CBS or Fox or NBC to reconsider.
Friendly reminder that the Big12 only has one primary home media market (Dallas) that matters. Everything else is very small change when it comes to attractiveness to advertisers in media buying markets.
Lmao,