Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:37 am
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Conference Realignment
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Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:38 am
Man I cannot wait to get KU at McKale.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:53 am
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:58 am
Please baby Jesus get us out of our purgatory...
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:59 am
"Dear PAC-12: Sorry, I'm just not that into you anymore."
~UofA
~UofA
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:21 pm
It’s not us, it’s you.dovecanyoncat wrote: Fri Mar 03, 2023 11:59 am "Dear PAC-12: Sorry, I'm just not that into you anymore."
~UofA
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:39 pm
It's almost like we predicted this months ago
? A whole lot of shit posting to get to this point.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:00 am
I was thinking someone more along the lines of coherent Cordera.dmjcat wrote: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:06 pm Hmmmmmmmm.. He's clearly not in touch with reality, he is constantly making things up, his arguments run in circles.
I'm beginning to think I know who AZCatFan2 is !
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:20 am
If we have severely reduced media exposure over the next 5 or 10 years the academic leadership should be concerned with the correlation between athletic interest and college choice.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:45 am
Man culturally it is going to blow being in the big 12 instead of the PAC 12 but for survival we have to go. Seeing us play Kansas St and Baylor and Central Florida instead of Oregon and UCLA and Stanford will just feel so dirty and wrong.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 12:17 pm
Well, of course, the Big Ten's LA schools will no longer be in that equation, and how much of the attraction of the Pac has been Arizona's success over UCLA football, basketball, baseball, and softball? Lots of build-up for USC football games, but they've usually whooped us at that, and beating them at hoops or whatever didn't make up for it.
I've never been particularly excited about playing Washington in freezing rain or in their purple mini-gym, or weirdsville neon yellow Oregon with their nouveau riche entitled fans. The Bay Area schools are alright, but Stanford's generally boring as hell, and Cal's generally lousy at the big two sports. Presumably, we'll still have Colorado (best road trip IMO) and okay... meh, Utah. Meanwhile, the Big XII will also feature TCU, Houston, BYU, K-State and Texas Tech football, Kansas, Baylor, and Houston hoops, and I understand Orlando has one or two entertainment options as a road trip. It'll be unfortunately Texas-centric, but blame the f-ing LA schools and the incompetent Pac-12 presidents for their decisions over the past decades.
I'm not naive enough to think Big XII administration or officiating will be so much more incredibly awesome than the Pac-12 crap pushed by the Berkeley president types. But more money and exposure, even if short-term, beats the alternative. And we need to remember it's about sports and media, not how we feel about Waco, Ames, or Stillwater.
I've never been particularly excited about playing Washington in freezing rain or in their purple mini-gym, or weirdsville neon yellow Oregon with their nouveau riche entitled fans. The Bay Area schools are alright, but Stanford's generally boring as hell, and Cal's generally lousy at the big two sports. Presumably, we'll still have Colorado (best road trip IMO) and okay... meh, Utah. Meanwhile, the Big XII will also feature TCU, Houston, BYU, K-State and Texas Tech football, Kansas, Baylor, and Houston hoops, and I understand Orlando has one or two entertainment options as a road trip. It'll be unfortunately Texas-centric, but blame the f-ing LA schools and the incompetent Pac-12 presidents for their decisions over the past decades.
I'm not naive enough to think Big XII administration or officiating will be so much more incredibly awesome than the Pac-12 crap pushed by the Berkeley president types. But more money and exposure, even if short-term, beats the alternative. And we need to remember it's about sports and media, not how we feel about Waco, Ames, or Stillwater.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 3:56 pm
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:12 pm
Big 10 getting Washington and Oregon at a discount because they have no choice if the corner schools jump to Big—12. Feels a lot like the prisoner’s dilemma between the four corners and PNW schools.
Neither group wants to be left behind.
Neither group wants to be left behind.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 4:27 pm
Half of a B1G membership is still more than a Big XII or PAC-X full membership.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:00 pm
Oh right, $100 million.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:20 pm
Don’t think Big10 is leaving USC and UCLA on an island (though it would bring me joy) My guess: Washington and Oregon comes at a discount and will be in the “western” division together with Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Northwestern and Wisconsin. It needs a commissioner first.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:16 pm
Wait? No we need to leave for the BIG12 now before Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Fresno, Boise, and Pima Community College take our spot nonsense!?! A cheap shot, I know, but the way I've been treated here, I'm entitled to take one or two.dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Article without the paywall:
https://archive.is/20230306184836/https ... -decisions
It should be clear now that Oregon and UW have zero interest in the BIG12. Their future lies with something bigger. This leaves us with three options. The same three options we've had all along. Go BIG12, which would trigger the B1G picking up Oregon and UW, and possibly the Bay Areas for a discount. Wait to see if the B1G pick any more PAC schools this round, which would have the 4-Corner PAC schools heading to the BIG12. Or option three, sign a 5-year deal that temporarily saves the PAC, and wait to see where Oregon and UW end up when the contract expires. Maybe we'll be included in any bigger deal the two big PNW schools end up with? And if not, the BIG12 will be there for us as a soft landing spot.
Hmmmm, where have I read that before? Oh yeah, it's what I've been saying for months. My preference is option 3, because it leaves open the option of us landing in something better than the BIG12. And if Oregon, UW, and possibly the Bays go B1G now, then we're out of any other options but the BIG12. Go BIG12 now, and again, out of any future options.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:28 pm
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:25 pm
Wait wait wait…AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:16 pmWait? No we need to leave for the BIG12 now before Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Fresno, Boise, and Pima Community College take our spot nonsense!?! A cheap shot, I know, but the way I've been treated here, I'm entitled to take one or two.dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Article without the paywall:
https://archive.is/20230306184836/https ... -decisions
It should be clear now that Oregon and UW have zero interest in the BIG12. Their future lies with something bigger. This leaves us with three options. The same three options we've had all along. Go BIG12, which would trigger the B1G picking up Oregon and UW, and possibly the Bay Areas for a discount. Wait to see if the B1G pick any more PAC schools this round, which would have the 4-Corner PAC schools heading to the BIG12. Or option three, sign a 5-year deal that temporarily saves the PAC, and wait to see where Oregon and UW end up when the contract expires. Maybe we'll be included in any bigger deal the two big PNW schools end up with? And if not, the BIG12 will be there for us as a soft landing spot.
Hmmmm, where have I read that before? Oh yeah, it's what I've been saying for months. My preference is option 3, because it leaves open the option of us landing in something better than the BIG12. And if Oregon, UW, and possibly the Bays go B1G now, then we're out of any other options but the BIG12. Go BIG12 now, and again, out of any future options.
You read that article and decided to try and take a victory lap???
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:46 pm
Go ahead and laugh. I'm not a fan of the PAC, despite what some people think. I'm a fan and alumni of Arizona, and I want what's best for the school. Our two landing spots are either the BIG12 or whatever better option that lands Oregon and UW. What I've been saying for months. If temporarily staying in the PAC gives us the option to tag along with the big PNW schools, I say take it. If not, we soft land in the BIG12.CardiacCats97 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:25 pmWait wait wait…AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:16 pmWait? No we need to leave for the BIG12 now before Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Fresno, Boise, and Pima Community College take our spot nonsense!?! A cheap shot, I know, but the way I've been treated here, I'm entitled to take one or two.dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Article without the paywall:
https://archive.is/20230306184836/https ... -decisions
It should be clear now that Oregon and UW have zero interest in the BIG12. Their future lies with something bigger. This leaves us with three options. The same three options we've had all along. Go BIG12, which would trigger the B1G picking up Oregon and UW, and possibly the Bay Areas for a discount. Wait to see if the B1G pick any more PAC schools this round, which would have the 4-Corner PAC schools heading to the BIG12. Or option three, sign a 5-year deal that temporarily saves the PAC, and wait to see where Oregon and UW end up when the contract expires. Maybe we'll be included in any bigger deal the two big PNW schools end up with? And if not, the BIG12 will be there for us as a soft landing spot.
Hmmmm, where have I read that before? Oh yeah, it's what I've been saying for months. My preference is option 3, because it leaves open the option of us landing in something better than the BIG12. And if Oregon, UW, and possibly the Bays go B1G now, then we're out of any other options but the BIG12. Go BIG12 now, and again, out of any future options.
You read that article and decided to try and take a victory lap???
Oregon and UW are the lynch pins to the PAC. They go B1G, we go BIG12. They stay, we stay, because it gives us a future with potential better options than the BIG12. Those better options never come to fruition, we go BIG12. Can anyone read that article, or any other current article and say these aren't the two options facing Arizona?
Now, if you want to argue we should go BIG12 now because that's our most likely landing spot, and why wait, I can at least understand that logic. But that removes the potential of Arizona ever being a part of anything better that might come along if we stay patient. If we can land in a better situation than the BIG12 in the future, we should try. If not, the BIG12 will happily accept us and the other 3-corner PAC schools.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:34 pm
Trust me, I did.
I’m very happy for you that you somehow found some justification for dying on that hill but all that article showed me was that controlling our own destiny now is far better than letting other schools dictate where our corpse ends up being buried in 5 years.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:41 pm
Controlling our own destiny means giving up on the potential of something better than the BIG12. A move we may live to regret. Being patient means we can land in a better spot. And if that doesn't happen, our worst case scenario is a BIG12 invite in a future. If we are to be buried in 5 years, it's because we're in the BIG12, and college sports is only going to have 2 power conferences, and the BIG12 won't be one.CardiacCats97 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:34 pmTrust me, I did.
I’m very happy for you that you somehow found some justification for dying on that hill but all that article showed me was that controlling our own destiny now is far better than letting other schools dictate where our corpse ends up being buried in 5 years.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:20 pm
I don't know anything about this twitter account.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:27 pm
AzCatFan2 are you still under the delusion that the SEC is just licking its chops to snatch up our powerhouse football program because I don’t know that I can take much more of this hysterical laughing.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:38 pm
I hear a lot about an absolutely guaranteed soft landing spot in the Big XII held in perpetuity for us, but there's nothing that requires that premise to be accepted. I'm sure there are plenty of scenarios where they add teams and get to a number and mix they're happy with and adding Arizona for basketball when we haven't always shown administrative or fan support for football might not be at the top of their list. And it's also not at all out of the realm of possibility that we could be left out in the cold with a de facto relegation to the Wyomings and New Mexicos of the world. Scott promised that the Pacific Rim would be big Pac-12 fans, the future of having 6 regional Pac-12 Network channels would take Olympic sports to another level, and God knows what else. Dreaming big is fine, as long as it's not just a deluded fantasy. But, at some point, a reasonable person ceases to be willing to put blind faith in grifters, and it's back to the tried-and-true business degree, office job with the consistent paycheck, stucco house in the upper middle neighborhood, and the five-year-old four-door sport sedans.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:42 pm
Why not go B1G PAC with 4 seven team divisions and a two tiered playoff. Have USC, Ohio St, Michigan and Penn St lead each group.
Have full shares, half shares and one third shares. Make it so
Have full shares, half shares and one third shares. Make it so
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:45 pm
No. The SEC has stated they aren't expanding this round. Nor do they with too expand farther west. And with s signed contract with ESPN, the SEC can stand pat right now. But 5 years from now? Potentially different story, especially if ESPN wants a coast-to-coast conference to compete with FOX and the B1G.CardiacCats97 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:27 pm AzCatFan2 are you still under the delusion that the SEC is just licking its chops to snatch up our powerhouse football program because I don’t know that I can take much more of this hysterical laughing.
If the future is just 2 power conferences, ESPN is going to want some west coast schools. If the future is 3 or more power conferences, I want Arizona to be in the 3rd behind the SEC and B1G. If the future is 2 and we're tied to the BIG12, we're out. If the future is 3, I think an APAC has potential. We're in the BIG12, we'll never be part of the APAC, should it ever exist.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:51 pm
Who mentioned in perpetuity? I never did.TheCatInTheHat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:38 pm I hear a lot about an absolutely guaranteed soft landing spot in the Big XII held in perpetuity for us, but there's nothing that requires that premise to be accepted. I'm sure there are plenty of scenarios where they add teams and get to a number and mix they're happy with and adding Arizona for basketball when we haven't always shown administrative or fan support for football might not be at the top of their list. And it's also not at all out of the realm of possibility that we could be left out in the cold with a de facto relegation to the Wyomings and New Mexicos of the world. Scott promised that the Pacific Rim would be big Pac-12 fans, the future of having 6 regional Pac-12 Network channels would take Olympic sports to another level, and God knows what else. Dreaming big is fine, as long as it's not just a deluded fantasy. But, at some point, a reasonable person ceases to be willing to put blind faith in grifters, and it's back to the tried-and-true business degree, office job with the consistent paycheck, stucco house in the upper middle neighborhood, and the five-year-old four-door sport sedans.
If you believe the FSU lawyers, it will cost ACC teams $120 million to break their contract. But that contract isn't in perpetuity either. It has an expiration date. So does the SEC, B1G, and BIG12 contracts. Which will all expire before the ACC contract.
This gives us the luxury to be patient. A luxury that will disappear over time.
But let's be honest. FSU and Clemson aren't going to pay $120 million to join the BIG12. And the ACC schools that may with to join the BIG12 are unlikely to have that kind of cash on hand, or willingness to borrow it.
If this were 2029/30, I'd say let's go to the BIG12 now. But it's not. It's 2023. We have time to see what possibilities, if any, exist for us the next round of contract negotiations before we make a long term decision.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:02 pm
By the time we know which of your post-apocalyptic scenarios comes true we’ll be in a conference with NAU and Utah State.AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:45 pmNo. The SEC has stated they aren't expanding this round. Nor do they with too expand farther west. And with s signed contract with ESPN, the SEC can stand pat right now. But 5 years from now? Potentially different story, especially if ESPN wants a coast-to-coast conference to compete with FOX and the B1G.CardiacCats97 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:27 pm AzCatFan2 are you still under the delusion that the SEC is just licking its chops to snatch up our powerhouse football program because I don’t know that I can take much more of this hysterical laughing.
If the future is just 2 power conferences, ESPN is going to want some west coast schools. If the future is 3 or more power conferences, I want Arizona to be in the 3rd behind the SEC and B1G. If the future is 2 and we're tied to the BIG12, we're out. If the future is 3, I think an APAC has potential. We're in the BIG12, we'll never be part of the APAC, should it ever exist.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:25 pm
Turns out it's more than likely a troll account.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:31 pm
As usual your arguments are filled with inaccuracies, fantasies, and delusions:AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:46 pmGo ahead and laugh. I'm not a fan of the PAC, despite what some people think. I'm a fan and alumni of Arizona, and I want what's best for the school. Our two landing spots are either the BIG12 or whatever better option that lands Oregon and UW. What I've been saying for months. If temporarily staying in the PAC gives us the option to tag along with the big PNW schools, I say take it. If not, we soft land in the BIG12.CardiacCats97 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:25 pmWait wait wait…AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:16 pmWait? No we need to leave for the BIG12 now before Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Fresno, Boise, and Pima Community College take our spot nonsense!?! A cheap shot, I know, but the way I've been treated here, I'm entitled to take one or two.dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Article without the paywall:
https://archive.is/20230306184836/https ... -decisions
It should be clear now that Oregon and UW have zero interest in the BIG12. Their future lies with something bigger. This leaves us with three options. The same three options we've had all along. Go BIG12, which would trigger the B1G picking up Oregon and UW, and possibly the Bay Areas for a discount. Wait to see if the B1G pick any more PAC schools this round, which would have the 4-Corner PAC schools heading to the BIG12. Or option three, sign a 5-year deal that temporarily saves the PAC, and wait to see where Oregon and UW end up when the contract expires. Maybe we'll be included in any bigger deal the two big PNW schools end up with? And if not, the BIG12 will be there for us as a soft landing spot.
Hmmmm, where have I read that before? Oh yeah, it's what I've been saying for months. My preference is option 3, because it leaves open the option of us landing in something better than the BIG12. And if Oregon, UW, and possibly the Bays go B1G now, then we're out of any other options but the BIG12. Go BIG12 now, and again, out of any future options.
You read that article and decided to try and take a victory lap???
Oregon and UW are the lynch pins to the PAC. They go B1G, we go BIG12. They stay, we stay, because it gives us a future with potential better options than the BIG12. Those better options never come to fruition, we go BIG12. Can anyone read that article, or any other current article and say these aren't the two options facing Arizona?
Now, if you want to argue we should go BIG12 now because that's our most likely landing spot, and why wait, I can at least understand that logic. But that removes the potential of Arizona ever being a part of anything better that might come along if we stay patient. If we can land in a better situation than the BIG12 in the future, we should try. If not, the BIG12 will happily accept us and the other 3-corner PAC schools.
"Move to the Big12 and we lose the option of something better 5 years from now" HORSESHIT. Our options will only be limited by the length of the GOR we sign. Should we sign a 5 year GOR with the B12 and the P12 wants a 10 year GOR we will be much better off, with more options, to move to the B12. Moving to the B12 will in no way hinder our ability to move to another conference down the road once the GOR expires.
"If UW/UO move to the B12, we move to the B12" Have you ever stopped to think that the B12 might stop at 2 P12 teams and leave the rest out in the cold?? It has been suggested by several sources that the B12 might stop at 2 if they can get UW/UO.......leaving the UA in the MWC
"The UW/UO will never move to the B12" HORSESHIT......if the B1G turns down further westward expansion the UW/UO may very well jump at the higher payout/better exposure in the B12. Money talks, Bullshit (and you) walk.
You also missed the entire point of the article.....which was to 1) Trust no one; 2) Look out for yourself; and 3) Be proactive. In other words, the exact opposite of what you have been advocating for months.
You seem to view the entire world through the wrong end of a telescope. One dimensional thinking is no way to go through life.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:34 pm
I want to ask Azcatfan2 if he was the school president and he was presented a TV deal at 25m if he would stay at that reduced rate for 5 years? I know Oregon and Washington won’t as they will take a reduced 40m a year deal with the B1G
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:43 pm
Holy shit I just got my first negative reputation points. What a day! Must have been too much logic and not enough blind obedience to this dumb ass conference in my posts.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:44 pm
If Oregon and UW ever end up in the BIG12, I'll donate $1,000 to the UA Foundation in your name. Heck, I'll make it $5,000. That's how fucking sure they will never go BIG12. Ever!dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:31 pmAs usual your arguments are filled with inaccuracies, fantasies, and delusions:AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:46 pmGo ahead and laugh. I'm not a fan of the PAC, despite what some people think. I'm a fan and alumni of Arizona, and I want what's best for the school. Our two landing spots are either the BIG12 or whatever better option that lands Oregon and UW. What I've been saying for months. If temporarily staying in the PAC gives us the option to tag along with the big PNW schools, I say take it. If not, we soft land in the BIG12.CardiacCats97 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:25 pmWait wait wait…AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:16 pmWait? No we need to leave for the BIG12 now before Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Fresno, Boise, and Pima Community College take our spot nonsense!?! A cheap shot, I know, but the way I've been treated here, I'm entitled to take one or two.dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Article without the paywall:
https://archive.is/20230306184836/https ... -decisions
It should be clear now that Oregon and UW have zero interest in the BIG12. Their future lies with something bigger. This leaves us with three options. The same three options we've had all along. Go BIG12, which would trigger the B1G picking up Oregon and UW, and possibly the Bay Areas for a discount. Wait to see if the B1G pick any more PAC schools this round, which would have the 4-Corner PAC schools heading to the BIG12. Or option three, sign a 5-year deal that temporarily saves the PAC, and wait to see where Oregon and UW end up when the contract expires. Maybe we'll be included in any bigger deal the two big PNW schools end up with? And if not, the BIG12 will be there for us as a soft landing spot.
Hmmmm, where have I read that before? Oh yeah, it's what I've been saying for months. My preference is option 3, because it leaves open the option of us landing in something better than the BIG12. And if Oregon, UW, and possibly the Bays go B1G now, then we're out of any other options but the BIG12. Go BIG12 now, and again, out of any future options.
You read that article and decided to try and take a victory lap???
Oregon and UW are the lynch pins to the PAC. They go B1G, we go BIG12. They stay, we stay, because it gives us a future with potential better options than the BIG12. Those better options never come to fruition, we go BIG12. Can anyone read that article, or any other current article and say these aren't the two options facing Arizona?
Now, if you want to argue we should go BIG12 now because that's our most likely landing spot, and why wait, I can at least understand that logic. But that removes the potential of Arizona ever being a part of anything better that might come along if we stay patient. If we can land in a better situation than the BIG12 in the future, we should try. If not, the BIG12 will happily accept us and the other 3-corner PAC schools.
"Move to the Big12 and we lose the option of something better 5 years from now" HORSESHIT. Our options will only be limited by the length of the GOR we sign. Should we sign a 5 year GOR with the B12 and the P12 wants a 10 year GOR we will be much better off, with more options, to move to the B12. Moving to the B12 will in no way hinder our ability to move to another conference down the road once the GOR expires.
"If UW/UO move to the B12, we move to the B12" Have you ever stopped to think that the B12 might stop at 2 P12 teams and leave the rest out in the cold?? It has been suggested by several sources that the B12 might stop at 2 if they can get UW/UO.......leaving the UA in the MWC
"The UW/UO will never move to the B12" HORSESHIT......if the B1G turns down further westward expansion the UW/UO may very well jump at the higher payout/better exposure in the B12. Money talks, Bullshit (and you) walk.
You also missed the entire point of the article.....which was to 1) Trust no one; 2) Look out for yourself; and 3) Be proactive. In other words, the exact opposite of what you have been advocating for months.
You seem to view the entire world through the wrong end of a telescope. One dimensional thinking is no way to go through life.
The big PNW schools know they can and will do better than the BIG12. There's no question this will happen. It's more what and when.
Our options are more limited. There is no guarantee we can do better than the BIG12, but there is a chance this happens. It depends where the PNW schools end up. But again, they aren't going BIG12.
If the PNW schools go B1G now, then there's nothing left in the PAC for us to stay. We go BIG12 if this happens. If the PAC survives this round, things will change when the next round of contracts end around 2030. That's the time to make a move, again, assuming the PAC survives.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:45 pm
I just negated itCardiacCats97 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:43 pm Holy shit I just got my first negative reputation points. What a day! Must have been too much logic and not enough blind obedience to this dumb ass conference in my posts.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 6:51 pm
Agenda Item Details
Meeting Mar 08, 2023 - Special Board Meeting Category 9:00 a.m. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 8, 2023 - CALL TO ORDER/EXECUTIVE SESSION Subject Action Item: Executive Session for Regents Type ACTION Recommended Action RESOLVED that the Board of Regents go into executive session. As permitted by section 24-6-402 (3), Colorado Revised Statutes, the board will discuss the following matter as announced and pursuant to the subsection as listed below:
- (a)(II), Legal advice on a specific matter - athletics update on PAC 12
Meeting Mar 08, 2023 - Special Board Meeting Category 9:00 a.m. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 8, 2023 - CALL TO ORDER/EXECUTIVE SESSION Subject Action Item: Executive Session for Regents Type ACTION Recommended Action RESOLVED that the Board of Regents go into executive session. As permitted by section 24-6-402 (3), Colorado Revised Statutes, the board will discuss the following matter as announced and pursuant to the subsection as listed below:
- (a)(II), Legal advice on a specific matter - athletics update on PAC 12
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:10 pm
The way you’ve been treated on here? Dear lord, man, you’ve brought every ounce of the mountains of scorn you’ve received on yourself. Your constant need to be “right” over a subject that is pure speculation at this point marks you as narrow-minded and obnoxious. Of course you’ve been roughed up. You are trying to spoon feed medicine, that you constantly reinvent and have no proof works, to a bunch of healthy individuals who don’t need it. Your overwhelming desire to be the last juror in the room of 12 Angry Men marks you as a masochist, especially when there is NO WAY TO EVER PROVE YOU ARE RIGHT. For one glorious week, you finally pulled yourself away from the abyss, but you are simply determined to die on that hill. It’s sad, and honestly pathetic, to watch a grown individual act like a child that simply can’t be wrong, no matter the consequences. You have my pity. I will honestly stop healing scorn on you from now on, because it has actually lost its appeal. No matter how much you may deserve it. Peace, my friend.AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:16 pmWait? No we need to leave for the BIG12 now before Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Fresno, Boise, and Pima Community College take our spot nonsense!?! A cheap shot, I know, but the way I've been treated here, I'm entitled to take one or two.dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Article without the paywall:
https://archive.is/20230306184836/https ... -decisions
It should be clear now that Oregon and UW have zero interest in the BIG12. Their future lies with something bigger. This leaves us with three options. The same three options we've had all along. Go BIG12, which would trigger the B1G picking up Oregon and UW, and possibly the Bay Areas for a discount. Wait to see if the B1G pick any more PAC schools this round, which would have the 4-Corner PAC schools heading to the BIG12. Or option three, sign a 5-year deal that temporarily saves the PAC, and wait to see where Oregon and UW end up when the contract expires. Maybe we'll be included in any bigger deal the two big PNW schools end up with? And if not, the BIG12 will be there for us as a soft landing spot.
Hmmmm, where have I read that before? Oh yeah, it's what I've been saying for months. My preference is option 3, because it leaves open the option of us landing in something better than the BIG12. And if Oregon, UW, and possibly the Bays go B1G now, then we're out of any other options but the BIG12. Go BIG12 now, and again, out of any future options.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:52 pm
I can be wrong. I have been before, and will be again. But when it comes to Oregon and UW, especially UW, wanting nothing to do with the BIG12, I'm not wrong. And I have proof. Links the two PNW schools talked to the B1G already. Links the B1G will one day, sooner or later, want to protect its LA investment. And plenty of recent links with rumors the PNW schools might go B1G at a discount.TucsonCat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:10 pmThe way you’ve been treated on here? Dear lord, man, you’ve brought every ounce of the mountains of scorn you’ve received on yourself. Your constant need to be “right” over a subject that is pure speculation at this point marks you as narrow-minded and obnoxious. Of course you’ve been roughed up. You are trying to spoon feed medicine, that you constantly reinvent and have no proof works, to a bunch of healthy individuals who don’t need it. Your overwhelming desire to be the last juror in the room of 12 Angry Men marks you as a masochist, especially when there is NO WAY TO EVER PROVE YOU ARE RIGHT. For one glorious week, you finally pulled yourself away from the abyss, but you are simply determined to die on that hill. It’s sad, and honestly pathetic, to watch a grown individual act like a child that simply can’t be wrong, no matter the consequences. You have my pity. I will honestly stop healing scorn on you from now on, because it has actually lost its appeal. No matter how much you may deserve it. Peace, my friend.AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:16 pmWait? No we need to leave for the BIG12 now before Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Fresno, Boise, and Pima Community College take our spot nonsense!?! A cheap shot, I know, but the way I've been treated here, I'm entitled to take one or two.dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Article without the paywall:
https://archive.is/20230306184836/https ... -decisions
It should be clear now that Oregon and UW have zero interest in the BIG12. Their future lies with something bigger. This leaves us with three options. The same three options we've had all along. Go BIG12, which would trigger the B1G picking up Oregon and UW, and possibly the Bay Areas for a discount. Wait to see if the B1G pick any more PAC schools this round, which would have the 4-Corner PAC schools heading to the BIG12. Or option three, sign a 5-year deal that temporarily saves the PAC, and wait to see where Oregon and UW end up when the contract expires. Maybe we'll be included in any bigger deal the two big PNW schools end up with? And if not, the BIG12 will be there for us as a soft landing spot.
Hmmmm, where have I read that before? Oh yeah, it's what I've been saying for months. My preference is option 3, because it leaves open the option of us landing in something better than the BIG12. And if Oregon, UW, and possibly the Bays go B1G now, then we're out of any other options but the BIG12. Go BIG12 now, and again, out of any future options.
And for this, I'm ridiculed, told I'm illogical, and have no idea what I'm talking about? I'm usually a very rational guy, and so far? I've been right a lot more than I've been wrong on this thread.
If the PNW schools go B1G, we go BIG12. If the B1G waits to extend the PNW schools an offer, the PNW schools will want to stay in the PAC for another 5 years.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:47 am
Why should we give a shit if UW/Oregon would go to the Big 12 or not? The fact that they solely want the B1G means literally dick to the finality of our situation. They want out and they will get out eventually that's all that matters. That doesn't help our situation now or later. Staying 5 years isn't going to change our stripes. We're Arizona, a borderline elite basketball school with an AAU membership from a smaller metropolitan area, and moderate at best football. We're not attractive to the B1G at this moment. They have their eyes set on bigger things. We're not attractive to the SEC, because we are not a football powerhouse. You keep making the argument that kicking the can down the road, regardless of how doing so would hurt our brand due to ridiculously poor visibility this upcoming TV deal will bring, while giving the chance for the Big 12 to get buyer's remorse about us, is the best course of action, and it's completely asinine. You advocate for the death of Arizona Athletics or at the very least the risk of the death of Arizona Athletics and yet defend yourself as if your asinine take is beyond reproach. I'm so tired of your bullshit. It's draining and I lose IQ points seeing people even reply to you about it. You're literally nauseating.AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:52 pmI can be wrong. I have been before, and will be again. But when it comes to Oregon and UW, especially UW, wanting nothing to do with the BIG12, I'm not wrong. And I have proof. Links the two PNW schools talked to the B1G already. Links the B1G will one day, sooner or later, want to protect its LA investment. And plenty of recent links with rumors the PNW schools might go B1G at a discount.TucsonCat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:10 pmThe way you’ve been treated on here? Dear lord, man, you’ve brought every ounce of the mountains of scorn you’ve received on yourself. Your constant need to be “right” over a subject that is pure speculation at this point marks you as narrow-minded and obnoxious. Of course you’ve been roughed up. You are trying to spoon feed medicine, that you constantly reinvent and have no proof works, to a bunch of healthy individuals who don’t need it. Your overwhelming desire to be the last juror in the room of 12 Angry Men marks you as a masochist, especially when there is NO WAY TO EVER PROVE YOU ARE RIGHT. For one glorious week, you finally pulled yourself away from the abyss, but you are simply determined to die on that hill. It’s sad, and honestly pathetic, to watch a grown individual act like a child that simply can’t be wrong, no matter the consequences. You have my pity. I will honestly stop healing scorn on you from now on, because it has actually lost its appeal. No matter how much you may deserve it. Peace, my friend.AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 1:16 pmWait? No we need to leave for the BIG12 now before Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, Gonzaga, Fresno, Boise, and Pima Community College take our spot nonsense!?! A cheap shot, I know, but the way I've been treated here, I'm entitled to take one or two.dmjcat wrote: Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:24 pm
Article without the paywall:
https://archive.is/20230306184836/https ... -decisions
It should be clear now that Oregon and UW have zero interest in the BIG12. Their future lies with something bigger. This leaves us with three options. The same three options we've had all along. Go BIG12, which would trigger the B1G picking up Oregon and UW, and possibly the Bay Areas for a discount. Wait to see if the B1G pick any more PAC schools this round, which would have the 4-Corner PAC schools heading to the BIG12. Or option three, sign a 5-year deal that temporarily saves the PAC, and wait to see where Oregon and UW end up when the contract expires. Maybe we'll be included in any bigger deal the two big PNW schools end up with? And if not, the BIG12 will be there for us as a soft landing spot.
Hmmmm, where have I read that before? Oh yeah, it's what I've been saying for months. My preference is option 3, because it leaves open the option of us landing in something better than the BIG12. And if Oregon, UW, and possibly the Bays go B1G now, then we're out of any other options but the BIG12. Go BIG12 now, and again, out of any future options.
And for this, I'm ridiculed, told I'm illogical, and have no idea what I'm talking about? I'm usually a very rational guy, and so far? I've been right a lot more than I've been wrong on this thread.
If the PNW schools go B1G, we go BIG12. If the B1G waits to extend the PNW schools an offer, the PNW schools will want to stay in the PAC for another 5 years.
Look literally nowhere in this realignment game has anybody said the B1G is interested in UW/OR and maybe they'll add Utah or Colorado or Arizona. Not once. We've heard UW/OR and the Bay Area schools, but the 4 corners have only been an option for the Big 12, and yet you hold on to the idea that maybe 5 years from now that'll change? I mean it's one thing if the idea of Arizona tagging along with UW/OR was floated ever by anybody, but it hasn't, so where are you pulling this out of your ass as a reasoning for why we should kick the can down the road?
The fact that kicking the can down the road is a serious option says enough of about how poorly ran these 10 universities are from an athletics standpoint and how poor their commissioner hires have been. You deserve this conference AzCatFan2. The rest of us deserve better.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 7:31 am
Choo - I was going to respond the same way (although not as articulately as you did) but every time I want to fire back with a "wtf" response I do as well feel like I'm losing IQ points.
Why the fuck do we care what OR/UW does? The bottom line is they are looking out for themselves similar to what the LA schools did. SC/UCLA which have way more power value than we do didn't just sit around and hope "things will get better" 5 years down the road and they jumped at an opportunity that was commensurate with their value. Why the fuck would we not do the same if the right value proposition - and the B12 definitely is much stronger than a fledgling, leaking Pac is right now - came a calling??!!
It makes no sense whatsoever to hang tight and wait for our demise. I don't give a shit what Oregon, UW or even the Bay Area schools want to do. The Pac is not in a position of power currently especially with The LA schools bolting. And since the B1G and the SEC want nothing to do with us there is only 1 logical conclusion.
Unless you are delusional and believe that Jesus Pac will resurrect from the dead...
Why the fuck do we care what OR/UW does? The bottom line is they are looking out for themselves similar to what the LA schools did. SC/UCLA which have way more power value than we do didn't just sit around and hope "things will get better" 5 years down the road and they jumped at an opportunity that was commensurate with their value. Why the fuck would we not do the same if the right value proposition - and the B12 definitely is much stronger than a fledgling, leaking Pac is right now - came a calling??!!
It makes no sense whatsoever to hang tight and wait for our demise. I don't give a shit what Oregon, UW or even the Bay Area schools want to do. The Pac is not in a position of power currently especially with The LA schools bolting. And since the B1G and the SEC want nothing to do with us there is only 1 logical conclusion.
Unless you are delusional and believe that Jesus Pac will resurrect from the dead...
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:54 am
If we go anywhere other then the Big 10 ( assuming UCLA and USC actually go there) our football program is completely fucked. The Los Angeles area is critical to our recruiting and kids will not play for us if none of our games are over there or against those schools.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:03 am
Then Arizona football is fucked and it's another Tuesday in Tucson, Arizona. We should probably protect Arizona basketball at all costs then huh?Carcassdragger wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:54 am If we go anywhere other then the Big 10 ( assuming UCLA and USC actually go there) our football program is completely fucked. The Los Angeles area is critical to our recruiting and kids will not play for us if none of our games are over there or against those schools.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:18 am
I agree the B1G will never take us. Especially since we're tied by ABOR to ASu, and ASu isn't an AAU school. The two AZ schools don't bring enough to the B1G to take both anyway. I also agree that if Oregon and UW go B1G, the PAC is dead, and we should immediately respond by going to the BIG12. But in my unsubstantiated opinion, I don't think the B1G will act first, especially without a Commissioner. Not impossible to expand without someone sitting in the top spot, but certainly unusual for a conference to expand without a Commissioner in place.
And yes, I'm advocating kicking the can down the road five years. Not something that is usually a good policy, but there are always exceptions. This is one. We risk nothing by waiting five years. We'd still be the BIG12's best expansion option five years from now. And what we potentially have to gain is a better situation than being in the BIG12.
So why should we care what Oregon and UW do, and why would they consider any option other than the B1G. In almost all scenarios where UW and Oregon go B1G, and the corners go BIG12, where do the Oregon and UW in-state sister schools, Oregon St. and WSU respectively, end up? In the Mountain West. Now, if we could go B1G and leave ASu in the Mtn. West, us fans would have a lot of good laughs over this. But ABOR and the state legislature would be a shitstorm full of angry Sun Devils. Not to mention, the CA BOR has made UCLA pay CAL for leaving them in the dust, which is an interesting precedent. If Oregon and UW are only getting partial B1G payments, have to share some of their new bounty with their in-state sister schools, along with increased travel costs, then a partial payment B1G membership may not be that financially beneficial in the short term. Especially if there are angry Beavers and Cougs in their respective state legislatures and Boards of Regents with power.
Simply game theory suggests we care what UW and Oregon do because if they are presented with a scenario with competitive payment that allows them to stay in the same conference as WSU and OSU respectively, the larger PNW schools will seriously consider it. And in most of these options, the Arizona schools tag along as part of the better option.
In the end, kicking the can down the road five years is little risk, with potential high reward of being included in whatever potential better option may come along for UW and Oregon, like the APAC proposition.
And yes, I'm advocating kicking the can down the road five years. Not something that is usually a good policy, but there are always exceptions. This is one. We risk nothing by waiting five years. We'd still be the BIG12's best expansion option five years from now. And what we potentially have to gain is a better situation than being in the BIG12.
So why should we care what Oregon and UW do, and why would they consider any option other than the B1G. In almost all scenarios where UW and Oregon go B1G, and the corners go BIG12, where do the Oregon and UW in-state sister schools, Oregon St. and WSU respectively, end up? In the Mountain West. Now, if we could go B1G and leave ASu in the Mtn. West, us fans would have a lot of good laughs over this. But ABOR and the state legislature would be a shitstorm full of angry Sun Devils. Not to mention, the CA BOR has made UCLA pay CAL for leaving them in the dust, which is an interesting precedent. If Oregon and UW are only getting partial B1G payments, have to share some of their new bounty with their in-state sister schools, along with increased travel costs, then a partial payment B1G membership may not be that financially beneficial in the short term. Especially if there are angry Beavers and Cougs in their respective state legislatures and Boards of Regents with power.
Simply game theory suggests we care what UW and Oregon do because if they are presented with a scenario with competitive payment that allows them to stay in the same conference as WSU and OSU respectively, the larger PNW schools will seriously consider it. And in most of these options, the Arizona schools tag along as part of the better option.
In the end, kicking the can down the road five years is little risk, with potential high reward of being included in whatever potential better option may come along for UW and Oregon, like the APAC proposition.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:24 am
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:28 am
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:33 am
Yes, merging with a conference that will also be dying in about 10 years or sooner at this rate, after our "kicking the can down the road 5 years" deal is up just screams "high reward."AzCatFan2 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:18 am I agree the B1G will never take us. Especially since we're tied by ABOR to ASu, and ASu isn't an AAU school. The two AZ schools don't bring enough to the B1G to take both anyway. I also agree that if Oregon and UW go B1G, the PAC is dead, and we should immediately respond by going to the BIG12. But in my unsubstantiated opinion, I don't think the B1G will act first, especially without a Commissioner. Not impossible to expand without someone sitting in the top spot, but certainly unusual for a conference to expand without a Commissioner in place.
And yes, I'm advocating kicking the can down the road five years. Not something that is usually a good policy, but there are always exceptions. This is one. We risk nothing by waiting five years. We'd still be the BIG12's best expansion option five years from now. And what we potentially have to gain is a better situation than being in the BIG12.
So why should we care what Oregon and UW do, and why would they consider any option other than the B1G. In almost all scenarios where UW and Oregon go B1G, and the corners go BIG12, where do the Oregon and UW in-state sister schools, Oregon St. and WSU respectively, end up? In the Mountain West. Now, if we could go B1G and leave ASu in the Mtn. West, us fans would have a lot of good laughs over this. But ABOR and the state legislature would be a shitstorm full of angry Sun Devils. Not to mention, the CA BOR has made UCLA pay CAL for leaving them in the dust, which is an interesting precedent. If Oregon and UW are only getting partial B1G payments, have to share some of their new bounty with their in-state sister schools, along with increased travel costs, then a partial payment B1G membership may not be that financially beneficial in the short term. Especially if there are angry Beavers and Cougs in their respective state legislatures and Boards of Regents with power.
Simply game theory suggests we care what UW and Oregon do because if they are presented with a scenario with competitive payment that allows them to stay in the same conference as WSU and OSU respectively, the larger PNW schools will seriously consider it. And in most of these options, the Arizona schools tag along as part of the better option.
In the end, kicking the can down the road five years is little risk, with potential high reward of being included in whatever potential better option may come along for UW and Oregon, like the APAC proposition.
Only you would view FSU and Clemson publicly stating how upset they are about their TV deal with all the flames that brings as "this is fine and certainly high reward."
You're an idiot. Seriously, have you ever been in a stable relationship ever in your life?
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:36 am
There is absolutely no guarantee that after 5 years of being literally lost in the wilderness of streaming on some off-brand non-sports network that any major conference, including the Big12, would want to bring us on. Our recruiting and results in both major sports will suffer and we will no longer be an attractive brand. To just assume we will be at the same level of popularity or visibility is brainless.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:39 am
Our brand would be damaged after 5 years, no question.CardiacCats97 wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:36 am There is absolutely no guarantee that after 5 years of being literally lost in the wilderness of streaming on some off-brand non-sports network that any major conference, including the Big12, would want to bring us on. Our recruiting and results in both major sports will suffer and we will no longer be an attractive brand. To just assume we will be at the same level of popularity or visibility is brainless.
Re: Conference Realignment
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:27 am
Anyone think Clemson and FSU have $120 million on hand to break their ACC contract? And this assumes the FSU lawyers are correct that $120 million is the number needed to break the contract. And doesn't include potential lengthy legal fees if the ACC decides to fight schools that wish to leave.
And game theory isn't pretzel logic. Oxford defines it as, "the branch of mathematics concerned with the analysis of strategies for dealing with competitive situations where the outcome of a participant's choice of action depends critically on the actions of other participants."
Our outcome may depend on the actions of other participants, and we would be wise to use game theory to determine other participants' (schools) potential moves in order to attempt to garner the best possible outcome for us. If we can work it out so we end up in a better situation than the BIG12, we should work towards that goal.
I also disagree our brand would be significantly damaged in five years, even if most of our games are streaming on Apple. It's not like anyone around the country saw any games broadcast on PAC-12 Network. Yet, our brand survived. And it's not like the BIG12 are getting premium placements on FOX or ESPN. A 9:00AM or 10:00 AM local start at UCF on FS1, or a 7:30 PM start streaming on ESPN+ at home against Kansas are things that could be in store for us if we go BIG12 now. How are those any better?
And game theory isn't pretzel logic. Oxford defines it as, "the branch of mathematics concerned with the analysis of strategies for dealing with competitive situations where the outcome of a participant's choice of action depends critically on the actions of other participants."
Our outcome may depend on the actions of other participants, and we would be wise to use game theory to determine other participants' (schools) potential moves in order to attempt to garner the best possible outcome for us. If we can work it out so we end up in a better situation than the BIG12, we should work towards that goal.
I also disagree our brand would be significantly damaged in five years, even if most of our games are streaming on Apple. It's not like anyone around the country saw any games broadcast on PAC-12 Network. Yet, our brand survived. And it's not like the BIG12 are getting premium placements on FOX or ESPN. A 9:00AM or 10:00 AM local start at UCF on FS1, or a 7:30 PM start streaming on ESPN+ at home against Kansas are things that could be in store for us if we go BIG12 now. How are those any better?