Bear Down Wildcats

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:13 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:40 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:18 am But have we EVER had it happened where one or two guys returned to school for us, bypassing the pros for a year and putting us in a position to build on a previous season's success? It's even happened at Duke and Kentucky over the last decade. Kansas too. It's possible I'm forgetting seasons where we *did* have guys return, but more often, we haven't been able to keep the core of our roster long enough to sustain momentum from a previous season. Happened with Lute a few times, and it's probably not a coincidence that he got to the FF multiple times, unlike Miller.

14-15 benefitted from Rondae and Ashley returning. Ashley was partially the injury, of course. Trier returning for 17-18, same. Benn did it last year where he'd probably have been a 1st rounder.

I have to disagree a bit in that I'm not certain Duke, Kansas or Kentucky had anyone much higher profile than the guys I named off return unexpectedly.

In '2014-15, Calipari had the Harrison twins return, also Willie Cauley-Stein. Team got to the FF.

Also in 2014-15, Coach K had Quinn Cook back (senior starting PG), along with Amile Jefferson. Team won it all.

In 2017-18, Self had Devonte Graham back (senior), Azubuike (sophomore), and Mykhailiuk (senior). Team got to the FF.

I'm not suggesting that Kentucky, Duke and Kansas have somehow avoided losing guys early. They always do, just like us. But just within the past decade, each of these programs had at least one year where key guys came back, and you see what happened.

I guess I just don't see that as super different. Cauley-Stein blew up into a lottery pick like Benn. Other teams...well, they seem similar to my examples here of RHJ and Ashley or Trier.

I.e., guys with some pro profile but not like guys turning down the lottery.

I miss the lottory.

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:39 pm I miss the lottory.

Shirley Jackson would be so unhappy you misspelled it.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:33 pm
I guess I just don't see that as super different. Cauley-Stein blew up into a lottery pick like Benn. Other teams...well, they seem similar to my examples here of RHJ and Ashley or Trier.

I.e., guys with some pro profile but not like guys turning down the lottery.

Is Koloko a lottery pick?

No, he isn't. Yet, his return could've been the difference between a good and great team next year, similar to what happened with the players in these examples I've given.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:00 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:33 pm
I guess I just don't see that as super different. Cauley-Stein blew up into a lottery pick like Benn. Other teams...well, they seem similar to my examples here of RHJ and Ashley or Trier.

I.e., guys with some pro profile but not like guys turning down the lottery.

Is Koloko a lottery pick?

No, he isn't. Yet, his return could've been the difference between a good and great team next year, similar to what happened with the players in these examples I've given.

I mean, in 2020, Duke, KY and UK had 5 players picked between #25 and #45. Only one in 2019. Four in 2018. 2 players in 2017. 3 players in 2016.

I'm being conservative by only using #25 as the starting point, but look at it that way. Every year, one of those three teams loses a player slotted where Koloko is. Most years, they lose more.

Guys aren't only leaving to be lottery picks. The significant majority aren't staying and playing themselves into the lottery either.

I mean, I can't do a full roster analysis, but I don't think schools are blowing us out of the water. Lottery guys almost automatically go. Maybe first rounders are hit or miss, some stay, some go. That's entirely consistent with our history.

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:39 pm I miss the lottory.

Last week I got all but six of the numbers right.

azgreg wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:05 pm

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:39 pm I miss the lottory.

Last week I got all but six of the numbers right.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:41 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 1:00 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:33 pm
I guess I just don't see that as super different. Cauley-Stein blew up into a lottery pick like Benn. Other teams...well, they seem similar to my examples here of RHJ and Ashley or Trier.

I.e., guys with some pro profile but not like guys turning down the lottery.

Is Koloko a lottery pick?

No, he isn't. Yet, his return could've been the difference between a good and great team next year, similar to what happened with the players in these examples I've given.

I mean, in 2020, Duke, KY and UK had 5 players picked between #25 and #45. Only one in 2019. Four in 2018. 2 players in 2017. 3 players in 2016.

I'm being conservative by only using #25 as the starting point, but look at it that way. Every year, one of those three teams loses a player slotted where Koloko is. Most years, they lose more.

Guys aren't only leaving to be lottery picks. The significant majority aren't staying and playing themselves into the lottery either.

I mean, I can't do a full roster analysis, but I don't think schools are blowing us out of the water. Lottery guys almost automatically go. Maybe first rounders are hit or miss, some stay, some go. That's entirely consistent with our history.

And meanwhile, over in Westwood...

https://twitter.com/jaquez_jr/status/15 ... 4_0HDV8Y6w

Bacot returning for his senior year as well

Wow,JJJR is coming back. No idea of where he was projected to be drafted but to me he is a pro. Good for him and of course the Bruins faithful. They are for sure the nations #1 heading into the season. Should be a great game when we get together

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:13 pm In '2014-15, Calipari had the Harrison twins return, also Willie Cauley-Stein. Team got to the FF.

Also in 2014-15, Coach K had Quinn Cook back (senior starting PG), along with Amile Jefferson. Team won it all.

In 2017-18, Self had Devonte Graham back (senior), Azubuike (sophomore), and Mykhailiuk (senior). Team got to the FF.

I'm not suggesting that Kentucky, Duke and Kansas have somehow avoided losing guys early. They always do, just like us. But just within the past decade, each of these programs had at least one year where key guys came back, and you see what happened.

Harrison twins didn't even make the All Freshman team, let alone an All SEC team. WCS tore his knee in the tournament and was forced to return

Quinn Cook, at 6'1" 180lbs, was never a early draft entrant threat - he failed to make an All ACC team as a junior before returning as a senior. Jefferson broke his foot during his breakout senior campaign before returning as a sixth year.

Devonte Graham was a late 2nd round projected pick as a junior (so he returned). Azubuike got second round feedback as a soph (so he returned), then broke his wrist nine games into his junior season (so he returned for a senior season). Svi got second round feedback so he returned.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:55 am Back half of the season look at the projected starting backcourt (using the second UCLA game as a kicking off point, removing post-ankle games for Kerr):

Kriisa: 9.5 pts / 4.7 ast / 2.2 TO / 2.8 reb on 36 / 39 / 91 shooting
Terry: 9.7 pts / 4.1 ast / 1.4 TO / 4.8 reb on 57 / 47 / 63 shooting
Pelle: 7.6 pts / 1.7 ast / 1.7 TO / 3.4 reb on 51 / 40 / 85 shooting

Some offseason work and Kriisa develops a midrange, Terry hits his free throws, Pelle makes better decisions... look out

(These are impressive numbers - look at that three point shooting!)

Looking forward to the next two weeks to see who Llyod will be able to get in the transfer portal.

Wow nobody here even remembers the lottory. All is impermanent, even on the internet.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:47 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:13 pm In '2014-15, Calipari had the Harrison twins return, also Willie Cauley-Stein. Team got to the FF.

Also in 2014-15, Coach K had Quinn Cook back (senior starting PG), along with Amile Jefferson. Team won it all.

In 2017-18, Self had Devonte Graham back (senior), Azubuike (sophomore), and Mykhailiuk (senior). Team got to the FF.

I'm not suggesting that Kentucky, Duke and Kansas have somehow avoided losing guys early. They always do, just like us. But just within the past decade, each of these programs had at least one year where key guys came back, and you see what happened.

Harrison twins didn't even make the All Freshman team, let alone an All SEC team. WCS tore his knee in the tournament and was forced to return

Quinn Cook, at 6'1" 180lbs, was never a early draft entrant threat - he failed to make an All ACC team as a junior before returning as a senior. Jefferson broke his foot during his breakout senior campaign before returning as a sixth year.

Devonte Graham was a late 2nd round projected pick as a junior (so he returned). Azubuike got second round feedback as a soph (so he returned), then broke his wrist nine games into his junior season (so he returned for a senior season). Svi got second round feedback so he returned.

YDF, I was really just pointing at instances of these programs returning key players and then getting to the FF. The circumstances with each of these are going to differ radically, as you've shown.

And as Spiff pointed out, we had RHJ, Ashley and Trier return, when all could've gone pro early. So AZ has indeed had some chances to build on a previous season's momentum. Just fell short of the FF.

The best programs tend to be the ones that aren't necessarily reliant on guys coming back but rather ones that have cracked the roster management code, balancing anticipated departures with strong recruiting. I would not want to be Kentucky, who brings in a new roster almost every year, and I wouldn't want to be Duke, who seems to only target top 20 players every year. Villanova and Gonzaga, imo, are the models of roster management dominance. So it's good that our new coach spent 20 years at one of these places. Bodes well for our long term prospects.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:47 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:13 pm In '2014-15, Calipari had the Harrison twins return, also Willie Cauley-Stein. Team got to the FF.

Also in 2014-15, Coach K had Quinn Cook back (senior starting PG), along with Amile Jefferson. Team won it all.

In 2017-18, Self had Devonte Graham back (senior), Azubuike (sophomore), and Mykhailiuk (senior). Team got to the FF.

I'm not suggesting that Kentucky, Duke and Kansas have somehow avoided losing guys early. They always do, just like us. But just within the past decade, each of these programs had at least one year where key guys came back, and you see what happened.

Harrison twins didn't even make the All Freshman team, let alone an All SEC team. WCS tore his knee in the tournament and was forced to return

Quinn Cook, at 6'1" 180lbs, was never a early draft entrant threat - he failed to make an All ACC team as a junior before returning as a senior. Jefferson broke his foot during his breakout senior campaign before returning as a sixth year.

Devonte Graham was a late 2nd round projected pick as a junior (so he returned). Azubuike got second round feedback as a soph (so he returned), then broke his wrist nine games into his junior season (so he returned for a senior season). Svi got second round feedback so he returned.

Fantastic post. It's what I was unsuccessfully hinting at. No one was Benn and turning down being a lottery pick. It's a challenge remembering anyone who was a lottery guy and turned it down.

Frankly, we sort of already won by getting to see a soph Benn when he likely had a first round grade. First rounders usually aren't returning either. Even a guy like Juzang...he returned after he crashed his stock by sucking at the combine.

There's a short list of guys who return with a first round possibility. Your list is one reason I put Brandon Ashley on ours. Valuable returners generally aren't first rounders. Jalen Brunson was on two title teams as a McD's AA and didn't go first round.

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:10 pm Wow nobody here even remembers the lottory. All is impermanent, even on the internet.

Please explain.
My googling did not explain.

Postmaster wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pm

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:10 pm Wow nobody here even remembers the lottory. All is impermanent, even on the internet.

Please explain.
My googling did not explain.

It was the agreed-upon star example of our common misspellings on Goazcats.com over 15 years ago. There's probably only a few of us from back then who haven't died of old age.

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:06 pm

Postmaster wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pm

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:10 pm Wow nobody here even remembers the lottory. All is impermanent, even on the internet.

Please explain.
My googling did not explain.

It was the agreed-upon star example of our common misspellings on Goazcats.com over 15 years ago. There's probably only a few of us from back then who haven't died of old age.

Shut up and go eat your yoghurt.

Merkin wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:11 pm

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:06 pm

Postmaster wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pm

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:10 pm Wow nobody here even remembers the lottory. All is impermanent, even on the internet.

Please explain.
My googling did not explain.

It was the agreed-upon star example of our common misspellings on Goazcats.com over 15 years ago. There's probably only a few of us from back then who haven't died of old age.

Shut up and go eat your yoghurt.

pwned

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:06 pm

Postmaster wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pm

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:10 pm Wow nobody here even remembers the lottory. All is impermanent, even on the internet.

Please explain.
My googling did not explain.

It was the agreed-upon star example of our common misspellings on Goazcats.com over 15 years ago. There's probably only a few of us from back then who haven't died of old age.

I don’t recall that.

But I made a Jessie Wildcat comment up thread and nobody said a thing.

Postmaster wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:16 pm

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:06 pm

Postmaster wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pm

Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:10 pm Wow nobody here even remembers the lottory. All is impermanent, even on the internet.

Please explain.
My googling did not explain.

It was the agreed-upon star example of our common misspellings on Goazcats.com over 15 years ago. There's probably only a few of us from back then who haven't died of old age.

I don’t recall that.

But I made a Jessie Wildcat comment up thread and nobody said a thing.

That’s not true. Check your rep messages.

And don’t make me rescind your membership to the Secret Rep Club.

My apologies,
It’s so secret I couldn’t find it at first.

Boom. Tommy's at it again.

This isn't the mystery Euro right? I thought that was a big man.

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:30 am

Boom. Tommy's at it again.

Little concerned about his DraftExpress profile:

HEIGHT: 6'8" (203 cm)
WEIGHT: 0 lbs (- kg)
POSITION: PG/SG - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Fil ... in-126152/ ©DraftExpress

Looking at YouTube highlights, he seems like he has a decent stroke, frame and size. His speed and athleticism don't stand out but don't look like negatives.

I'd put him in the "how quickly he adjusts" category. Upside of a taller Pelle Larsson.

UAEebs86 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:37 am This isn't the mystery Euro right? I thought that was a big man.

No, this is a different mystery Euro lol.

He is tall.

A 6'8" PG? Sounds intriguing

84Cat wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:44 am A 6'8" PG? Sounds intriguing

He's a wing

From Scheer's article

but the coaching staff sees him as a player that will be able to contribute immediately at the shooting guard and small forward spots.

The expectation is that Arizona is likely set at the wing position now and will look to fill out the roster at other positions. As of now, Dalen Terry is expected to be back in the fold next season with an announcement coming any day now. Add Terry to Pelle Larsson and a developing Adama Bal, and the Arizona coaching staff likely feels good about where the wing position is at going into next season.

I think "a taller Larsson" is probably right on the money.

We really need to add at least one big, athletic defender. Tubelis is not a great defensive player.

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:47 am Tubelis is not a great defensive player.

He needs to move to center

Anyone wanna take a stab at a phonetic pronunciation of that last name?

Is it "Boor-o-veek-a-neen"? Or maybe "Boor-o-veech-a-neen"?

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:47 am I think "a taller Larsson" is probably right on the money.

We really need to add at least one big, athletic defender. Tubelis is not a great defensive player.

Patience.

Will the ncaa hold his eligibility until February?

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:51 am Anyone wanna take a stab at a phonetic pronunciation of that last name?

Is it "Boor-o-veek-a-neen"? Or maybe "Boor-o-veech-a-neen"?

Fill Up

I’m with Spiff on speed and athleticism concerns.

But… he’s big! He’s 6’8” and he has legit guard skills with his ball handling, passing, and three level scoring.

Our wings are legit huge across the board… but I’m not sure this solves the desire for our roster to get downhill more and attack the rim. We'll play some beautiful offensive basketball but will that matter in March?

If he is anything like our former players, Ivan & Dusan, from Serbia he is a winner and we will love him.

YoDeFoe wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:10 am I’m with Spiff on speed and athleticism concerns.

But… he’s big! He’s 6’8” and he has legit guard skills with his ball handling, passing, and three level scoring.

Our wings are legit huge across the board… but I’m not sure this solves the desire for our roster to get downhill more and attack the rim. We'll play some beautiful offensive basketball but will that matter in March?

I care more about how he moves laterally on D and toughness. I doubt he'll ever be a slasher, but you can scheme around that a bit.

D matters because if he has decent lateral mobility and is tough and strong, we also just got a stretch 4. I share that we lack penetrators and this doesn't solve that, but that's where Lloyd has to earn that genius title in scheming to strengths instead of a guy like Benn who can just go get it.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:30 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:10 am I’m with Spiff on speed and athleticism concerns.

But… he’s big! He’s 6’8” and he has legit guard skills with his ball handling, passing, and three level scoring.

Our wings are legit huge across the board… but I’m not sure this solves the desire for our roster to get downhill more and attack the rim. We'll play some beautiful offensive basketball but will that matter in March?

I care more about how he moves laterally on D and toughness. I doubt he'll ever be a slasher, but you can scheme around that a bit.

D matters because if he has decent lateral mobility and is tough and strong, we also just got a stretch 4. I share that we lack penetrators and this doesn't solve that, but that's where Lloyd has to earn that genius title in scheming to strengths instead of a guy like Benn who can just go get it.

Not going to act like I'm an expert on his game at the moment, but in that Givony video they showed a few nice defensive possessions in regards to decent lateral mobility. Not sure if that's the norm or what though.

YoDeFoe wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:10 am I’m with Spiff on speed and athleticism concerns.

But… he’s big! He’s 6’8” and he has legit guard skills with his ball handling, passing, and three level scoring.

Our wings are legit huge across the board… but I’m not sure this solves the desire for our roster to get downhill more and attack the rim. We'll play some beautiful offensive basketball but will that matter in March?

100% my concern as well - don't love being a massive team if it means we have guys like this trying to play the 2-guard....he looks to me to be closer to a stretch 4 than he does a 2. looks like a legit talent - love his shooting and his passing feel looks really high, but would have preferred this pickup be a higher level athlete that's more of a true 2 and can get downhill, attack the basket, create his own shot, etc.

Reminds me of Hunter Maldonado from Wyoming.

We needed some perimeter shooters and he looks the part there.

Would think he will be a situational match up early in his career.

ChooChooCat wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:32 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:30 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:10 am I’m with Spiff on speed and athleticism concerns.

But… he’s big! He’s 6’8” and he has legit guard skills with his ball handling, passing, and three level scoring.

Our wings are legit huge across the board… but I’m not sure this solves the desire for our roster to get downhill more and attack the rim. We'll play some beautiful offensive basketball but will that matter in March?

I care more about how he moves laterally on D and toughness. I doubt he'll ever be a slasher, but you can scheme around that a bit.

D matters because if he has decent lateral mobility and is tough and strong, we also just got a stretch 4. I share that we lack penetrators and this doesn't solve that, but that's where Lloyd has to earn that genius title in scheming to strengths instead of a guy like Benn who can just go get it.

Not going to act like I'm an expert on his game at the moment, but in that Givony video they showed a few nice defensive possessions in regards to decent lateral mobility. Not sure if that's the norm or what though.

I've given up on most highlight videos and D. The Givony video shows one nice recover, close out and stop of penetration and a second where he moves with a driving player.

What'a tough...he doesn't flash outstanding physical attributes, so it's all about his ability to consistently be in the right position. If he is, he can hang with opponents but probably won't smother them a la RHJ.

I would like to see him eventually slot as a stretch 4, at least part time. That would go a long way towards his athleticism being at least solid positionally, and his skills would allow some really interesting offensive sets.

Serbian Joe Ingles

I know we're far from done with next year's roster. But aside from Benn's slashing and overall offensive prowess, I just think we'll miss CK's go-go-gadget arms hovering above the paint. His presence in the paint (and Ballo's) was a major reason we beat Illinois and ucla this past season. Even though those teams have size, they didn't have someone like CK who was big, quick and athletic af. It was incredible watching ucla struggle just to get shots off late in the pac tourney title game. CK and OB were everywhere, changing and blocking shots. Our size overwhelmed them.

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:51 am Anyone wanna take a stab at a phonetic pronunciation of that last name?

Is it "Boor-o-veek-a-neen"? Or maybe "Boor-o-veech-a-neen"?

We’re just trying to make it as hard on Dave Pasch as possible.

We have 2 or 3 spots open? Looking for backup PG and Big?

3 spots open I believe but we might leave one infilled just in case we ever get our punishment for bullshit that happened a decade ago.

Beachcat97 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:38 am I know we're far from done with next year's roster. But aside from Benn's slashing and overall offensive prowess, I just think we'll miss CK's go-go-gadget arms hovering above the paint. His presence in the paint (and Ballo's) was a major reason we beat Illinois and ucla this past season. Even though those teams have size, they didn't have someone like CK who was big, quick and athletic af. It was incredible watching ucla struggle just to get shots off late in the pac tourney title game. CK and OB were everywhere, changing and blocking shots. Our size overwhelmed them.

Choo voice: "Patience"

Need to replace Benn, Koloko, and Kier. I think we did hold a scholarship open this past year just in case we end up losing a couple over a few years.

We definitely need another big. We could use a project here, as Ballo and Zu will be solid. I'd be happy if we could find another Koloko circa 2019. Someone who has a huge upside, who can come in and protect the rim 10 minutes a game while developing the rest of his game.

I'd also like to see another point guard added to the roster. We have Kerr, but behind him, it's Terry and then the new Euro? I like 6'8" guys who can shoot, but I agree, the speed of the college game will mean the new guy likely won't be playing the point. Kier was a nice pick-up, and maybe there's a transfer out there from a mid-major who wants to prove himself at a school like Arizona, knowing the NBA is out of reach, but a career in Europe is a possibility? And playing at Arizona would help.

I think we also need to remember we had two guys on the bench who played limited minutes who might follow old school improvement. Bal and Nowell. Bal, even in limited minutes, showed marked improvement, and I think he could average in double digits scoring next year. Nowell is more of a question, but as Lute used to like to say, the biggest improvement a player has is between his freshman and sophomore year. And maybe we already have Kier's replacement on the roster in Nowell? I would have thought Nowell would have put his name in the portal, but happy he hasn't. And maybe that's a sign Tommy has trust and faith in Nowell, and visa-versa?