Bear Down Wildcats

lmao #apayersprogram is going on twitter rn, pretty funny

EVCat wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:

scumdevils86 wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:Too Soon Take:

Feel really bad for Book. He make a mistake, yes, broke some laws, but the consequences will be far more dire then the action. Not like he got someone hurt, or he was even malicious against a person. Thought he'd make a quick buck in a return favor, but that the kid would probably be in fine shape steering to that individual. Just lack of judgment. However, he has burned the bridge of his best friend and mentor Miller, probably won't coach for a long time, face jail and/or fines, huge lawyer fees, reputation hits, etc., all for the quick buck. Pray for Book.

uh what. fuck this.

Who did Book intentionally try to hurt? In fact, he probably thought he was helping.

Helping by manipulating kids who trust his advice as a mentor to go to particular agents that may not be the best for them but are marks for the shoe companies? Putting your word in as a trusted mentor that Agent X is going to do his/her best for you, knowing that agent may not be a top level agent, and may very well be on the side of the shoe company as a paid employee that he is supposedly negotiating with on behalf of the player? Yeah...that will work well.

He gained the trust of players then steered them to agents based upon money he received from shoe companies. Not based upon the kids best interest. He manipulated people who trusted him.

Was that a joke?

Do we have a list of any players he steered to Dawkins? I wonder if any of the steered kids were early entries who went undrafted.

threenumberones wrote:

dan wrote:I just can't understand the optimism here.

Miller had an assistant caught on an FBI wiretap funneling multiple players to agents and discussing cash payments for commitments. That's textbook NCAA show cause stuff - in the past, a lot of schools can get "caught" and get off lightly because the NCAA has no recourse to coerce witnesses and there is very rarely a traceable paper trail.

He's done - it may not be this year, but it's just a matter of time.

Our only real hope is the net is cast wide enough to include the 25 or so schools recruiting at the top level.

From what I read he said the player was already paid, but there was no indication of the timing of it. Who knows how complex this web is. It's inference at this point to assume he is talking about paying for a commitment.

But yea, holding on to some hope here.

We are actually handling this news as a board pretty well I would say. Impressive when you think of some of the meltdowns we have had after particular games.

rgdeuce wrote:

threenumberones wrote:

dan wrote:I just can't understand the optimism here.

Miller had an assistant caught on an FBI wiretap funneling multiple players to agents and discussing cash payments for commitments. That's textbook NCAA show cause stuff - in the past, a lot of schools can get "caught" and get off lightly because the NCAA has no recourse to coerce witnesses and there is very rarely a traceable paper trail.

He's done - it may not be this year, but it's just a matter of time.

Our only real hope is the net is cast wide enough to include the 25 or so schools recruiting at the top level.

From what I read he said the player was already paid, but there was no indication of the timing of it. Who knows how complex this web is. It's inference at this point to assume he is talking about paying for a commitment.

But yea, holding on to some hope here.

We are actually handling this news as a board pretty well I would say. Impressive when you think of some of the meltdowns we have had after particular games.

Seriously the board is handling this better than a football loss.

splitsecond wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

threenumberones wrote:

dan wrote:I just can't understand the optimism here.

Miller had an assistant caught on an FBI wiretap funneling multiple players to agents and discussing cash payments for commitments. That's textbook NCAA show cause stuff - in the past, a lot of schools can get "caught" and get off lightly because the NCAA has no recourse to coerce witnesses and there is very rarely a traceable paper trail.

He's done - it may not be this year, but it's just a matter of time.

Our only real hope is the net is cast wide enough to include the 25 or so schools recruiting at the top level.

From what I read he said the player was already paid, but there was no indication of the timing of it. Who knows how complex this web is. It's inference at this point to assume he is talking about paying for a commitment.

But yea, holding on to some hope here.

We are actually handling this news as a board pretty well I would say. Impressive when you think of some of the meltdowns we have had after particular games.

Seriously the board is handling this better than a football loss.

I'm thinking deer in the headlights at this point...I've been reading all morning and I still don't know to process it. A statement from Miller on this would help.

That's what I'm having trouble getting my head around.

This is bad very very bad, and i hope it stops at book otherwise a team that brings me such joy will be dead is so many ways.

But why is the FBI doing the NCAA's dirty work? What federal crime was broken? Is it becuase book is an employee of a federally funded university?

I bet it'll be tomorrow before we hear from Miller.

The glee over at devilsdigest has to be at record levels

This is not just the NCAA knocking on our door. This is a basketball staff member and assistant coach arrested in a federal bribery and corruption probe accused of recruiting players by paying them. And any assertion that Miller didn't know certainly doesn't come close to fitting the straight face test.

I'm amazed at the talk of "well we might lose this recruit or that recruit". Our season, and probably several seasons, and possibly our program are done.

I know we had a good run with Miller, but this is nothing but dishonor and embarrassment for our university. Just Utterly Shameful.

I bet Alford orgasmed this morning over this while combing his dip do.

At least we're a football school

97cats wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:Well we all knew Miller being coach and Arizona being good would end sometime. Here's looking forward to an NCAA death penalty.

so it went from almost certain death penalty...

ASUHATER! wrote:If this stuff is true we're looking at a mini death penalty type situation.

to mini death penalty

ASUHATER! wrote:If Miller has any knowledge if anything going on and wasn't immediately working hand in hand with FBI and NCAA investigators he needs to be fired tomorrow

to fire Coach Miller immediately

none of the three will happen

none

Proof?

rgdeuce wrote:

threenumberones wrote:

dan wrote:I just can't understand the optimism here.

Miller had an assistant caught on an FBI wiretap funneling multiple players to agents and discussing cash payments for commitments. That's textbook NCAA show cause stuff - in the past, a lot of schools can get "caught" and get off lightly because the NCAA has no recourse to coerce witnesses and there is very rarely a traceable paper trail.

He's done - it may not be this year, but it's just a matter of time.

Our only real hope is the net is cast wide enough to include the 25 or so schools recruiting at the top level.

From what I read he said the player was already paid, but there was no indication of the timing of it. Who knows how complex this web is. It's inference at this point to assume he is talking about paying for a commitment.

But yea, holding on to some hope here.

We are actually handling this news as a board pretty well I would say. Impressive when you think of some of the meltdowns we have had after particular games.

There is less meltdown than we had over Steve Kerr's political commentary.

I think a lot of it is fueled by the fact we are far from the only program implicated and a level of realism about Book's situation.

97cats wrote:too soon???????

LOL

Not at all!

CalStateTempe wrote:That's what I'm having trouble getting my head around.

This is bad very very bad, and i hope it stops at book otherwise a team that brings me such joy will be dead is so many ways.

But why is the FBI doing the NCAA's dirty work? What federal crime was broken? Is it becuase book is an employee of a federally funded university?

WHAT!

Book took a bribe. That's illegal. That's a federal crime. (It's a STATE funded university, BTW.)

He was like trafficking with kids lives.......in so many different ways.

If not the FBI who? Besides, everyone in the world knew the NCAA is/has been corrupt. Are they going to investigate themselves?

The NCAA is not going around wearing wires? (They should have been, but.......)

Really, some of the commentary here is amazing.

3 year sting operation and this is all they find on us? Solid

dan wrote:I just can't understand the optimism here.

There is no optimism. Just realizing this is about an issue that isn't related to institutional control, which is what the NCAA is about. Yes, an individual on the staff committed a crime to benefit himself. Companies have people who commit fraud all the time. The school is a victim here, and has been identified as such by the investigators. Players who were subsequently paid by Big Money Book will be declared ineligible, and that will hurt us in the short term.

But institutional damage comes from that lack of control or complicit behavior that is simply not, at least yet, a part of this.

Do you really think if their wiretaps had Sean Miller talking to Book about this, scheming and plotting, that the information released would have been about Book Richardson? No...I am pretty certain if there was anything that implicated Sean Miller, that would have been the lede. The very fact that the FBI has not named the coach, and the US Attorney on this case has gone out of his way to say no schools or head coaches have been accused is a big fucking deal.

This is the inevitable conclusion of the dirtiness of the Agent and shoe company game hovering around the sport. We all know that there is a serious ethical issue with the shoe companies running the AAU camps/tournaments that are the very lifeblood of the game. There is only one reason for them to do this. And we all know it is unreasonable to expect the shoe companies, with the Next Michael Jordan or Next LeBron James on the line, the route to billions of dollars, to know where the line is and stop there.

This is vertical integration...the shoe companies invest in advertising to get the kid interested by the shoe their heroes wear young, then enter the process at the very start of the player's lives in camps and tournaments, identify the top players, fund and outfit the top high schools and club teams and forge contractual ownership, essentially, of the top clubs, underwriting their travel and equipment, exposing the coaches to their potential next jobs while clothing the kids from head to toe in their product, creating brand loyalty that is taken to almost gang-level extremes (or, if you watch the documentary on this with Gabe and PJC, maybe at gang-level extremes), then you outfit the schools you steer them to that are also brand loyal and pay the coaches to be employees of the shoe company. So what is the next step in the chain? The agent signing...the person who will be negotiating the deal the Next Michael Jordan makes with the shoe company. Pay the agent and pay the weakest link coaches, the ones with money problems or maybe weaker constitutions, that have access to the top players, either in getting them to their school, or even forging a relationship in recruiting that makes said coach a mentor across school lines. Whatever...the validity of that is not worth focusing on. The vertical integration is the story...the shoe companies create the entire ladder to signing with them...the adveritisements, the early camps and clubs, the development of the top players, the steering of those elite players to clubs that are loyal by financial need to a specific shoe company, holding elite tournaments with brand loyal clubs, outfitting the high school, club and college, paying coaches to do camps and wear the brand, then...what is left? Delivery of the player to an agent who will make signing the player very likely.

ALL of this is a loss leader to finding the next Michael Jordan. They have slowly taken ownership of the whole process, from literally being the spark that makes kids interested in the game through superior advertising to ownership of the sport's most lucrative development paths, to employing all of their coaches, to owning the clubs....this was supposed to be the step that was pure? Picking an agent? C'mon...they throw that kind of money around throughout that process and they wouldn't have bag recruiting agents and coaches paid to steer to those agents?

It's a crime. It's wrong. It is inevitable. And this will blow the lid off of it. There is no way this doesn't lead to that person, that coach, existing in every major program, or at least scare them all into hiding. But if you sense optimism, it is maybe, like me, some excitement (while recognizing the damage coming our way) that this is finally going to get the spotlight. And I think everyone you think is "optimistic" (wrong word, IMO) is really just realizing this isn't about our program, but about someone associated with our program who was weak and got picked off. Because it is not about our program, our program should survive.

SunnyAZ wrote:

3 year sting operation and this is all they find on us? Solid

I can't help but share that opinion. If the payments are as rampant as some are saying, they would have found more.

NYCat wrote:

About damn time

97cats wrote:so i was just told Book Richardson will be apart of media day tomorrow from his jail cell via FaceTime.

I know most of you are trying to maintain your heads over here, but if you follow the tweet above and the evidence pans out from the FBI probe then those of you that are concerned about losing Miller and facing major penalties are more correct than those that are trying to remain calm. Will the NCAA really enforce the rule from Aug 1, 2013???

I don't think anyone doubts that this has been going on at major institutions for years and that the NCAA has a vested interest in protecting the system. The question becomes, how do they do that? Do they play low key, take no action and hope the details and parties involved don't grow as part of an expanding federal investigation or do they come down hard on a few schools right away & claim they had no knowledge and risk having to do the same thing to Schools like Duke, UCLA and North Carolina later. One of those best protects the institutions that are members of the NCAA, the other better protects the NCAA centrally.

I think I speak for most of us up at Colorado when I say that I feel for you the fans, I feel for the players that didn't get paid, I am proud of any coaches or staff that did things the right away and had no knowledge, but I most definitely am going to enjoy sitting back, eating my popcorn and watching as this all plays out. We promise to only rush Sean Millers front lawn if he gets terminated (Since he hated our students rushing the court so much).

CalStateTempe wrote:But why is the FBI doing the NCAA's dirty work? What federal crime was broken? Is it becuase book is an employee of a federally funded university?

Yes.

Also, kickbacks to steer business are often not reported as taxable income, or on the books as paid by the company.

But kickbacks that are between private parties that do not violate tax laws are legal in the US. A state employee being involved, then the crime involving interstate activity, makes it a federal crime. And I am guessing Book didn't file "Kickback for Steering Players to Agents" on schedule C with one shitton of depreciation and depletion writeoff..

NYCat wrote:

NYCat wrote:

We were made aware of the Department of Justice’s investigation this morning and we are cooperating fully with the FBI and the U.S. Attorney’s office. Assistant coach Emmanuel Richardson was immediately suspended and relieved of all duties.
We were appalled to learn of the allegations as they do not reflect the standards we hold ourselves to and require from our colleagues. The University of Arizona has a strong culture of compliance and the expectation is we follow the rules.

Not that it needed to take a long time, but that didn't take long.

Hank of sb wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:That's what I'm having trouble getting my head around.

This is bad very very bad, and i hope it stops at book otherwise a team that brings me such joy will be dead is so many ways.

But why is the FBI doing the NCAA's dirty work? What federal crime was broken? Is it becuase book is an employee of a federally funded university?

WHAT!

Book took a bribe. That's illegal. That's a federal crime. (It's a STATE funded university, BTW.)

He was like trafficking with kids lives.......in so many different ways.

If not the FBI who? Besides, everyone in the world knew the NCAA is/has been corrupt. Are they going to investigate themselves?

The NCAA is not going around wearing wires? (They should have been, but.......)

Really, some of the commentary here is amazing.

Dude chill...that why I asked the question, not to be Pollyanne head in the sand but to understands the enormity of this all.

Thanks for clarifying, I guess.

SunnyAZ wrote:

3 year sting operation and this is all they find on us? Solid

Sunny, would not the more salient point be that after a 3-year investigation they found Arizona involved and ONLY 6 others.

The fact that there were only 6/7 of us involved would be the worst indictment of them all.

Thank you EV for your much more measured and informative response.

Got it.

SunnyAZ wrote:

3 year sting operation and this is all they find on us? Solid

Why college bb and not college fb? Lower hanging fruit?

Isaiah Fox stole a bagel and nothing happened to him. I'm optimistic.

carcassdragger wrote:And any assertion that Miller didn't know certainly doesn't come close to fitting the straight face test.

That's just false based on what we are talking about here. It was imperative that Miller not know, or Book would be fired. We are talking about chump change to Miller. He did not know about Book getting $5,000 here and there, rolling in his $60K, to talk to players about going to a certain agent.

All of that is counter to Miller's mission, with no enrichment. While players Book recruited may have been paid, that is Book keeping his job. He had a meltdown a few years back, should have been fired, and all he does is recruit. Damn straight he might have greased some wheels with this money to get recruits.

But if you pay attention to what is being alleged here, common sense tells you that Miller did not know. Miller was not going to be cool with an assistant getting chump change, risking his entire program, to move players to certain agents. There is nothing in that for Miller. An occasional player isn't worth that to a guy killing it on the recruiting scene (there is nothing that comes close to damaging that record here. A couple of Book recruited players getting money is not going to change Miller's recruiting prowess as fact).

So why the fuck would Miller look the other way. I can say with a straight face that if the actions that have been made public are what there is, there is no fucking way Miller knew what was going on, because he would have fired Book in .1 seconds (or maybe .4...however long it takes to pick him up and throw him) for risking the entire program over piss-ant money to manipulate his players to certain agents.

They have wiretaps. You really think if Miller had any involvement, he wouldn't have been the lead name on the release? And if you think he grinned and looked the other way so an assistant could make less money a year than Miller's car costs to risk the program by steering players to agents, that is really on you, but it is not, based on what we know right now, logical.

CalStateTempe wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:

3 year sting operation and this is all they find on us? Solid

Why college bb and not college fb? Lower hanging fruit?

The whole greedy and ostentatious AAU system makes it much easier to infiltrate than say a bunch of rich SECs grandads handing money in sacks in some small Southern town.

CalStateTempe wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:

3 year sting operation and this is all they find on us? Solid

Why college bb and not college fb? Lower hanging fruit?

AAU is a unifying force of dirty that CFB doesn't really have. The proliferation of those programs and their alliance with shoe companies...well, CFB doesn't really have that in close to the same magnitude or in as sweeping a way.

If you remember the article about SEC bagmen in football, it was all localized by school.

Hank of sb wrote:
Sunny, would not the more salient point be that after a 3-year investigation they found Arizona involved and ONLY 6 others.

The fact that there were only 6/7 of us involved would be the worst indictment of them all.

I was joking but their insider probably only had a few connections to a small amount of schools. Unluckily we were one of them.

Can we just kill the AAU system and start paying players at least a little something? Most of this crap would be avoided then.

ASUHATER! wrote:Can we just kill the AAU system and start paying players at least a little something? Most of this crap would be avoided then.

Which would leave out almost any school where the AD loses money, which is almost all of them. Scholarship athletes do get a stipend, besides free room and board.

Hank of sb wrote: Book took a bribe. That's illegal. That's a federal crime. (It's a STATE funded university, BTW.)

Just a side note, any school that receives federal financial aid has to abide by federal law. Even though California has legalized the use of marijuana, marijuana is still illegal on campuses here due to federal law.

EVCat wrote:

carcassdragger wrote:And any assertion that Miller didn't know certainly doesn't come close to fitting the straight face test.

So why the fuck would Miller look the other way. I can say with a straight face that if the actions that have been made public are what there is, there is no fucking way Miller knew what was going on, because he would have fired Book in .1 seconds (or maybe .4...however long it takes to pick him up and throw him) for risking the entire program over piss-ant money to manipulate his players to certain agents.

They have wiretaps. You really think if Miller had any involvement, he wouldn't have been the lead name on the release? And if you think he grinned and looked the other way so an assistant could make less money a year than Miller's car costs to risk the program by steering players to agents, that is really on you, but it is not, based on what we know right now, logical.

Why would he look the other way - I can think of about 2.9 million reasons??

EVCat wrote:

dan wrote:I just can't understand the optimism here.

There is no optimism. Just realizing this is about an issue that isn't related to institutional control, which is what the NCAA is about. Yes, an individual on the staff committed a crime to benefit himself. Companies have people who commit fraud all the time. The school is a victim here, and has been identified as such by the investigators. Players who were subsequently paid by Big Money Book will be declared ineligible, and that will hurt us in the short term.

But institutional damage comes from that lack of control or complicit behavior that is simply not, at least yet, a part of this.

Do you really think if their wiretaps had Sean Miller talking to Book about this, scheming and plotting, that the information released would have been about Book Richardson? No...I am pretty certain if there was anything that implicated Sean Miller, that would have been the lede. The very fact that the FBI has not named the coach, and the US Attorney on this case has gone out of his way to say no schools or head coaches have been accused is a big fucking deal.

This is the inevitable conclusion of the dirtiness of the Agent and shoe company game hovering around the sport. We all know that there is a serious ethical issue with the shoe companies running the AAU camps/tournaments that are the very lifeblood of the game. There is only one reason for them to do this. And we all know it is unreasonable to expect the shoe companies, with the Next Michael Jordan or Next LeBron James on the line, the route to billions of dollars, to know where the line is and stop there.

This is vertical integration...the shoe companies invest in advertising to get the kid interested by the shoe their heroes wear young, then enter the process at the very start of the player's lives in camps and tournaments, identify the top players, fund and outfit the top high schools and club teams and forge contractual ownership, essentially, of the top clubs, underwriting their travel and equipment, exposing the coaches to their potential next jobs while clothing the kids from head to toe in their product, creating brand loyalty that is taken to almost gang-level extremes (or, if you watch the documentary on this with Gabe and PJC, maybe at gang-level extremes), then you outfit the schools you steer them to that are also brand loyal and pay the coaches to be employees of the shoe company. So what is the next step in the chain? The agent signing...the person who will be negotiating the deal the Next Michael Jordan makes with the shoe company. Pay the agent and pay the weakest link coaches, the ones with money problems or maybe weaker constitutions, that have access to the top players, either in getting them to their school, or even forging a relationship in recruiting that makes said coach a mentor across school lines. Whatever...the validity of that is not worth focusing on. The vertical integration is the story...the shoe companies create the entire ladder to signing with them...the adveritisements, the early camps and clubs, the development of the top players, the steering of those elite players to clubs that are loyal by financial need to a specific shoe company, holding elite tournaments with brand loyal clubs, outfitting the high school, club and college, paying coaches to do camps and wear the brand, then...what is left? Delivery of the player to an agent who will make signing the player very likely.

ALL of this is a loss leader to finding the next Michael Jordan. They have slowly taken ownership of the whole process, from literally being the spark that makes kids interested in the game through superior advertising to ownership of the sport's most lucrative development paths, to employing all of their coaches, to owning the clubs....this was supposed to be the step that was pure? Picking an agent? C'mon...they throw that kind of money around throughout that process and they wouldn't have bag recruiting agents and coaches paid to steer to those agents?

It's a crime. It's wrong. It is inevitable. And this will blow the lid off of it. There is no way this doesn't lead to that person, that coach, existing in every major program, or at least scare them all into hiding. But if you sense optimism, it is maybe, like me, some excitement (while recognizing the damage coming our way) that this is finally going to get the spotlight. And I think everyone you think is "optimistic" (wrong word, IMO) is really just realizing this isn't about our program, but about someone associated with our program who was weak and got picked off. Because it is not about our program, our program should survive.

I like your way of thinking and hope you are right.

CalStateTempe wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:

3 year sting operation and this is all they find on us? Solid

Why college bb and not college fb? Lower hanging fruit?

College basketball is owned by the shoe companies. That vertical integration I mentioned in my novel above. Football, the schools are still important, it is way too tough to identify the players who will actually spark in the NFL, and football endorsements don't move the market like basketball ones do.

There is no place to really gain a foothold in football (there are some, but too risky in conversion), and the inability to identify the best players early makes it also not worth spraying money at. That issue of the helmet obscuring the face takes brand value away to the point that the most revenue generating sport has less individual endorsement impact.

RiseAndFire wrote:

EVCat wrote:

carcassdragger wrote:And any assertion that Miller didn't know certainly doesn't come close to fitting the straight face test.

So why the fuck would Miller look the other way. I can say with a straight face that if the actions that have been made public are what there is, there is no fucking way Miller knew what was going on, because he would have fired Book in .1 seconds (or maybe .4...however long it takes to pick him up and throw him) for risking the entire program over piss-ant money to manipulate his players to certain agents.

They have wiretaps. You really think if Miller had any involvement, he wouldn't have been the lead name on the release? And if you think he grinned and looked the other way so an assistant could make less money a year than Miller's car costs to risk the program by steering players to agents, that is really on you, but it is not, based on what we know right now, logical.

Why would he look the other way - I can think of about 2.9 million reasons??

2.9 million reasons NOT to know about this.

Nothing Book did with this chump change got him that money. Until you have some proof that a bunch of players were paid (which we don't), all you have is a neat line there..."2.9 million reasons (drops mic)". But the mic only matters if you have something to say.

There would have been zero reason for Miller to retain Book, who had issues and was ineffective and redundant with the recruiting others were doing, if he knew Book was committing a federal crime. It would be in Miller's best interest to get rid of him if he knew.

And you know that. But you are a troll. This is for the benefit of lurkers, nothing more.

ColoradoBuffalo wrote:

I know most of you are trying to maintain your heads over here, but if you follow the tweet above and the evidence pans out from the FBI probe then those of you that are concerned about losing Miller and facing major penalties are more correct than those that are trying to remain calm. Will the NCAA really enforce the rule from Aug 1, 2013???

I don't think anyone doubts that this has been going on at major institutions for years and that the NCAA has a vested interest in protecting the system. The question becomes, how do they do that? Do they play low key, take no action and hope the details and parties involved don't grow as part of an expanding federal investigation or do they come down hard on a few schools right away & claim they had no knowledge and risk having to do the same thing to Schools like Duke, UCLA and North Carolina later. One of those best protects the institutions that are members of the NCAA, the other better protects the NCAA centrally.

I think I speak for most of us up at Colorado when I say that I feel for you the fans, I feel for the players that didn't get paid, I am proud of any coaches or staff that did things the right away and had no knowledge, but I most definitely am going to enjoy sitting back, eating my popcorn and watching as this all plays out. We promise to only rush Sean Millers front lawn if he gets terminated (Since he hated our students rushing the court so much).

This was already posted, but thanks.

The fact here is this is not good. This is going to hurt. It could be a blow we cannot come back from.

But it is more likely a blow that hurts us in our best season, that creates something for trolls and enemies to blow up to being something it isn't. Something to chant at Miller, whether he knew or not. Something to make fun of us with.

It is up to the team, if it remains intact, to not be distracted, to form an "us against the world" mentality much like UNLV used. But that is in the short tern. In the long term, this will blow over, and the people who matter the most, the people involved with the game, will know what this is about. We will still be on TV, still in the Maui, still at Atlantis, and players will still want to play for us and be on those showcases and be coached by Miller and Romar (in the short term) or Miller and whomever, because Miller is the reason players come here, not Book, or Pasternak or even Romar. And, for that reason, we will be OK, with the understanding that this may fuck us this year, which is heartbreaking.

In the short term, it will be a shit storm on Twitter and, to a lesser extent, on the TV shows, though national media will focus more on Louisville and the names like Person and Bland they know well. Just don't engage would be my advice. It will go away, and we will look back and say "damn...remember the day that was announced? I thought we were done when I saw the headline"

SunnyAZ wrote:

Hank of sb wrote:
Sunny, would not the more salient point be that after a 3-year investigation they found Arizona involved and ONLY 6 others.

The fact that there were only 6/7 of us involved would be the worst indictment of them all.

I was joking but their insider probably only had a few connections to a small amount of schools. Unluckily we were one of them.

OK I accept you were joking and apologize for suggesting you were not. But I would suggest that Arizona got caught--whereas others did not-- is more more an indictment of Book's depravity and ultimately Arizona's stupidity. I mean we all have intuition and if we are doing something illegal that might be a good time to turn the rabbit ears ON, if you know what I mean. It might be time to back off and certainly a time to get out of a hotel room full of thugs, in Vegas of all places.

And then run; all the while saying to yourself, no more.....I'm not going there. This is insane.

I mean Book has now proved he was one very stupid human being and that fact alone makes one wonder why this guy was sitting on Arizona's bench for all this time.

ASUHATER! wrote: Proof?

i ask the same of you, and your statements written as facts?

there is none, just your opinion, laced with the typical paranoid knee jerk reaction.

Watching the Pascoe video on the situation, so Book took $20,000 in bribes and gave some of it to a recruit who ended up committing. And that is the whole situation?

CalStateTempe wrote:That's what I'm having trouble getting my head around.

This is bad very very bad, and i hope it stops at book otherwise a team that brings me such joy will be dead is so many ways.

But why is the FBI doing the NCAA's dirty work? What federal crime was broken? Is it becuase book is an employee of a federally funded university?

Seen you ask a few times, so Ill break it down. Bribery is both a federal and state crime, with some variations in language between federal and each of the individual states' statutory language. This is a federal matter because 1) it occurred across state lines and 2) it involved entities that accept federal funding (the universities). He is an employee of one of those federally funded universities. Book is charged in Counts 1 and 3 related to the bribery, both bribery counts but prosecutors almost always stack charges (eg: drug traffickers get charged with possession with intent to distribute meth and CONSPIRACY to possess with intent to distribute meth).

Counts 6 and 10 deal with wire fraud. This was done across state lines, so again, a federal matter, and it involved money, an employee of a university (Book). Wire fraud involves the use of electronic communications (eg cell phones, email, money wiring, etc) to commit a fraudulent act, in this case at minimum, communication over cellular phones. The U of A is an official victim in this matter because they were the ones defrauded (possible revenue loss, penalties, etc, due to sanctions). Again, the stacking of charges with Counts 6 and 10.

Count 11 is basically a conspiracy to commit racketeering over state lines, that affects interstate commerce ($), etc. More specifically, traveling out of state to engage in this conspiracy is a crime.

Real rough explanation, but I tried to keep it brief and not speak in legal terms. DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney, just someone with a pretty good grasp of federal and state criminal law.

CalStateTempe wrote:That's what I'm having trouble getting my head around.

This is bad very very bad, and i hope it stops at book otherwise a team that brings me such joy will be dead is so many ways.

But why is the FBI doing the NCAA's dirty work? What federal crime was broken? Is it becuase book is an employee of a federally funded university?

My guess is the investigation leads back to someone who was burned in this situation or it leads back to Nike.

SunnyAZ wrote:Watching the Pascoe video on the situation, so Book took $20,000 in bribes and gave some of it to a recruit who ended up committing. And that is the whole situation?

Thought it was Quinerly's mother who wanted $15K. Didn't watch Pascoe, but thought I read where Book said most recruits don't even know when their parents are being bribed.

Except for one current UA player who is apparently getting paid.

And no surprise here:

EVCat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:But why is the FBI doing the NCAA's dirty work? What federal crime was broken? Is it becuase book is an employee of a federally funded university?

Yes.

Also, kickbacks to steer business are often not reported as taxable income, or on the books as paid by the company.

But kickbacks that are between private parties that do not violate tax laws are legal in the US. A state employee being involved, then the crime involving interstate activity, makes it a federal crime. And I am guessing Book didn't file "Kickback for Steering Players to Agents" on schedule C with one shitton of depreciation and depletion writeoff..

EV nailed it w the taxable income bit.

SunnyAZ wrote:

Hank of sb wrote:
Sunny, would not the more salient point be that after a 3-year investigation they found Arizona involved and ONLY 6 others.

The fact that there were only 6/7 of us involved would be the worst indictment of them all.

I was joking but their insider probably only had a few connections to a small amount of schools. Unluckily we were one of them.

...and just barely got caught. Our involvement in the probe ran from March to August 2017. Goddamnit.

splitsecond wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:That's what I'm having trouble getting my head around.

This is bad very very bad, and i hope it stops at book otherwise a team that brings me such joy will be dead is so many ways.

But why is the FBI doing the NCAA's dirty work? What federal crime was broken? Is it becuase book is an employee of a federally funded university?

My guess is the investigation leads back to someone who was burned in this situation or it leads back to Nike.

I would be surprised if several shoe companies are not in a ton of trouble when all is said and done.