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I love you, Choo. BTFD.ChooChooCat wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:40 pm Guys, stop worrying about the bigs situation. It'll be fine.
Workin' on it.Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:06 pmIt was the agreed-upon star example of our common misspellings on Goazcats.com over 15 years ago. There's probably only a few of us from back then who haven't died of old age.Postmaster wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:20 pmPlease explain.Longhorned wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:10 pm Wow nobody here even remembers the lottory. All is impermanent, even on the internet.
My googling did not explain.
I'm worried about the 0 lbsSpaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:40 amLittle concerned about his DraftExpress profile:
HEIGHT: 6'8" (203 cm)
WEIGHT: 0 lbs (- kg)
POSITION: PG/SG - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Fil ... in-126152/ ©DraftExpress
Looking at YouTube highlights, he seems like he has a decent stroke, frame and size. His speed and athleticism don't stand out but don't look like negatives.
I'd put him in the "how quickly he adjusts" category. Upside of a taller Pelle Larsson.
I haven't heard a single word about DT possibly leaving. No smoke = no fire?SabinoDrifter wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 1:57 pm DT was in the instagram post from the official account a few minutes ago about 2023, so I think that is confirmation he's coming back.
Should we be worried about Zu?
Pretty crazy that we aren't even considering him leaving. Why would he not be in that tweet? He's the star of the team now. Crap...
Not even closeBeachcat97 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:51 am Anyone wanna take a stab at a phonetic pronunciation of that last name?
Is it "Boor-o-veek-a-neen"? Or maybe "Boor-o-veech-a-neen"?
Bacot vs Koloko is the classic reason I always pump how the NBA doesn't care about college production, they care how you fit at the next level. Bacot is probably more productive than Koloko, a better rebounder and scorer.
Yeah, that's what jumped out at me. I prefer players who weigh something.OriginalAZ wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 2:00 pmI'm worried about the 0 lbsSpaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:40 amLittle concerned about his DraftExpress profile:
HEIGHT: 6'8" (203 cm)
WEIGHT: 0 lbs (- kg)
POSITION: PG/SG - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Fil ... in-126152/ ©DraftExpress
Looking at YouTube highlights, he seems like he has a decent stroke, frame and size. His speed and athleticism don't stand out but don't look like negatives.
I'd put him in the "how quickly he adjusts" category. Upside of a taller Pelle Larsson.
And an especially rare amount of lateral quickness and agility on the perimeter. His combination of rim protection and ability to move his feet after switches or against a skilled big is what makes him a defensive unicorn.
He has some ups and downs, but a lot of it is just ironing out footwork with experience. He isn't a KD/Giannis type 7 footer who will move like a guard, but he definitely isn't a stationary object.RaisingArizona wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:08 pmAnd an especially rare amount of lateral quickness and agility on the perimeter. His combination of rim protection and ability to move his feet after switches or against a skilled big is what makes him a defensive unicorn.
He’s in the Instagram photos, where you can post more than 4 pictures. Relax.
Other than the 9' 0 lb PG we've been talking about?
TBH, I don't see him as a guard at all. He looks to me like a 3 and stretch 4 and like we'd be doing him a disservice trying to shoehorn his game into a guard role.
100% agree - he looks pretty clearly to me to be a true 3, with the ability to play some 4 if he can put on weight, but he most definitely should not be playing the 2. imagine him guarding a Caleb Love-type player - would be a disaster imo.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:37 amTBH, I don't see him as a guard at all. He looks to me like a 3 and stretch 4 and like we'd be doing him a disservice trying to shoehorn his game into a guard role.
His level of athleticism...I don't see it working as a guard on the NCAA level. That isn't a negative, a 3 and 4 with a guard-like skill set is a positive, but I just don't see his future as a guard.
100%. I don't think it would be fair to him to try to make him defend guards, especially quick, dynamic ones. I'd say defensively he reminds me of Brandon Ashley with shorter arms, i.e., capable of defending 3's, probably best suited for 4's, not one you want matching with a guard.goslingswagg wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:02 am100% agree - he looks pretty clearly to me to be a true 3, with the ability to play some 4 if he can put on weight, but he most definitely should not be playing the 2. imagine him guarding a Caleb Love-type player - would be a disaster imo.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:37 amTBH, I don't see him as a guard at all. He looks to me like a 3 and stretch 4 and like we'd be doing him a disservice trying to shoehorn his game into a guard role.
His level of athleticism...I don't see it working as a guard on the NCAA level. That isn't a negative, a 3 and 4 with a guard-like skill set is a positive, but I just don't see his future as a guard.
What's this? The freaking Wooden Award winner returning to Kentucky? Figures. So far, key players returning to UK, Duke, Kansas, ucla, and UNC. By "key players," I mean guys who, by staying in school, elevate their teams' prospects significantly.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:40 am14-15 benefitted from Rondae and Ashley returning. Ashley was partially the injury, of course. Trier returning for 17-18, same. Benn did it last year where he'd probably have been a 1st rounder.Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:18 amBut have we EVER had it happened where one or two guys returned to school for us, bypassing the pros for a year and putting us in a position to build on a previous season's success? It's even happened at Duke and Kentucky over the last decade. Kansas too. It's possible I'm forgetting seasons where we *did* have guys return, but more often, we haven't been able to keep the core of our roster long enough to sustain momentum from a previous season. Happened with Lute a few times, and it's probably not a coincidence that he got to the FF multiple times, unlike Miller.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:24 amIt's modern CBB. I look at it as the pitfall of today. If Lauri doesn't blow up as a freshman, imagine him and Ayton together. If Nnaji doesn't blow up, imagine how much better 20-21 is with him as a soph.Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:09 am I mean, we're losing our two best players from this past season. This is not a top 15 roster right now, but given what happens in the offseason, we could get there. We need size and shooting.
Isn't it crazy how we almost never keep our guys for that one extra season where we could get over the hump? Meanwhile, unc and ucla are set to return their entire rosters.
Expected to lose Benn. Thought CK might come back for his senior year, but I completely understand his decision.
In modern CBB, developing players too well is a gift and a curse. We saw the gift with Benn and Koloko this year. Now we see the curse.
I have to disagree a bit in that I'm not certain Duke, Kansas or Kentucky had anyone much higher profile than the guys I named off return unexpectedly.
Dunno, I feel like Tshibwe proves a few things I (and my unofficial partner, YoDeFoe) have said.Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:22 amWhat's this? The freaking Wooden Award winner returning to Kentucky? Figures. So far, key players returning to UK, Duke, Kansas, ucla, and UNC. By "key players," I mean guys who, by staying in school, elevate their teams' prospects significantly.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:40 am14-15 benefitted from Rondae and Ashley returning. Ashley was partially the injury, of course. Trier returning for 17-18, same. Benn did it last year where he'd probably have been a 1st rounder.Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:18 am But have we EVER had it happened where one or two guys returned to school for us, bypassing the pros for a year and putting us in a position to build on a previous season's success? It's even happened at Duke and Kentucky over the last decade. Kansas too. It's possible I'm forgetting seasons where we *did* have guys return, but more often, we haven't been able to keep the core of our roster long enough to sustain momentum from a previous season. Happened with Lute a few times, and it's probably not a coincidence that he got to the FF multiple times, unlike Miller.
I have to disagree a bit in that I'm not certain Duke, Kansas or Kentucky had anyone much higher profile than the guys I named off return unexpectedly.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... all-season
Not a shock and another reason I say we get the same sort of results on players staying or leaving other programs do. The meek end to Tubelis's year meant he didn't have much draft stock.
These are all good points, Spiff. I don't disagree.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:48 am
Dunno, I feel like Tshibwe proves a few things I (and my unofficial partner, YoDeFoe) have said.
One blessing of nbadraft.net being super slow to update is you can see where a guy was rated for a bit before they update to remove him. Tshibwe was projected as the 45th pick.
This echoes what I said about Bacot above and the basic tenor of my responses to you. It isn't college productivity. Bacot and Tshibwe are very productive college players, but their pro projection lags.
This hits what I said to you earlier, lottery picks leave. First rounders almost always leave. Guys who are great in college but lack the NBA qualities that get them into the first round (I used Jalen Brunson and Allonzo Trier as some examples) are the returners you watch for. Those guys leave sometimes too, like Nick Johnson, but they stay at a much more significant rate.
He 100% needs to do about eleventy million dribble drives to the right in practice this offseason. Teams knew he was only going to go left and just shut him down last year. Gotta add to the arsenal in order to have any kind of success next year.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:27 pmNot a shock and another reason I say we get the same sort of results on players staying or leaving other programs do. The meek end to Tubelis's year meant he didn't have much draft stock.
Time to become a 3 point threat with more moves to his right hand side.
Juzang's stock reminds me of the Jay-Z diss line to Nas: "fell from top ten to not mentioned at all."Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:28 pmThese are all good points, Spiff. I don't disagree.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:48 am
Dunno, I feel like Tshibwe proves a few things I (and my unofficial partner, YoDeFoe) have said.
One blessing of nbadraft.net being super slow to update is you can see where a guy was rated for a bit before they update to remove him. Tshibwe was projected as the 45th pick.
This echoes what I said about Bacot above and the basic tenor of my responses to you. It isn't college productivity. Bacot and Tshibwe are very productive college players, but their pro projection lags.
This hits what I said to you earlier, lottery picks leave. First rounders almost always leave. Guys who are great in college but lack the NBA qualities that get them into the first round (I used Jalen Brunson and Allonzo Trier as some examples) are the returners you watch for. Those guys leave sometimes too, like Nick Johnson, but they stay at a much more significant rate.
Here's another one. He's been overrated since last year's tournament, and now he's going to be undrafted.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/337 ... la-scoring
Yep. How's that player development at ucla going? Their guys keep coming back because they're not good enough for the pros. Jaquez is their best player, and even he knows it's a waste of time to declare for the draft. And Juzang blew it by coming back when his draft stock peaked last spring. Anyway, f ucla.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:53 pmJuzang's stock reminds me of the Jay-Z diss line to Nas: "fell from top ten to not mentioned at all."Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:28 pmThese are all good points, Spiff. I don't disagree.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:48 am
Dunno, I feel like Tshibwe proves a few things I (and my unofficial partner, YoDeFoe) have said.
One blessing of nbadraft.net being super slow to update is you can see where a guy was rated for a bit before they update to remove him. Tshibwe was projected as the 45th pick.
This echoes what I said about Bacot above and the basic tenor of my responses to you. It isn't college productivity. Bacot and Tshibwe are very productive college players, but their pro projection lags.
This hits what I said to you earlier, lottery picks leave. First rounders almost always leave. Guys who are great in college but lack the NBA qualities that get them into the first round (I used Jalen Brunson and Allonzo Trier as some examples) are the returners you watch for. Those guys leave sometimes too, like Nick Johnson, but they stay at a much more significant rate.
Here's another one. He's been overrated since last year's tournament, and now he's going to be undrafted.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/337 ... la-scoring
He was rising fast after the tourney last year, went to the combine to solidify the 1st round grade and then completely crapped the bed in his combine scrimmages. This year was more of stagnating and now his stock is basically nonexistent.
I'm not sure I blame player development. I look at Juzang and it's more like this is who he is, and he just had an unusually hot run during the 2021 tourney that led people to overrate his ability, but he just returned to who he always was.Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:16 pmYep. How's that player development at ucla going? Their guys keep coming back because they're not good enough for the pros. Jaquez is their best player, and even he knows it's a waste of time to declare for the draft. And Juzang blew it by coming back when his draft stock peaked last spring. Anyway, f ucla.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:53 pmJuzang's stock reminds me of the Jay-Z diss line to Nas: "fell from top ten to not mentioned at all."Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:28 pm These are all good points, Spiff. I don't disagree.
Here's another one. He's been overrated since last year's tournament, and now he's going to be undrafted.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/337 ... la-scoring
He was rising fast after the tourney last year, went to the combine to solidify the 1st round grade and then completely crapped the bed in his combine scrimmages. This year was more of stagnating and now his stock is basically nonexistent.
Once the dust settles from all these draft decisions, it'll be nice to get a clearer sense of how our and others' rosters look.
Damon did it a billion years ago, when the enter but don't sign with an agent rule first started. I want to say Jason Gardner did it as well once, when everyone else feom 2001 was leaving... but I can't remember.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:48 amDunno, I feel like Tshibwe proves a few things I (and my unofficial partner, YoDeFoe) have said.Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:22 amWhat's this? The freaking Wooden Award winner returning to Kentucky? Figures. So far, key players returning to UK, Duke, Kansas, ucla, and UNC. By "key players," I mean guys who, by staying in school, elevate their teams' prospects significantly.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:40 am14-15 benefitted from Rondae and Ashley returning. Ashley was partially the injury, of course. Trier returning for 17-18, same. Benn did it last year where he'd probably have been a 1st rounder.Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:18 am But have we EVER had it happened where one or two guys returned to school for us, bypassing the pros for a year and putting us in a position to build on a previous season's success? It's even happened at Duke and Kentucky over the last decade. Kansas too. It's possible I'm forgetting seasons where we *did* have guys return, but more often, we haven't been able to keep the core of our roster long enough to sustain momentum from a previous season. Happened with Lute a few times, and it's probably not a coincidence that he got to the FF multiple times, unlike Miller.
I have to disagree a bit in that I'm not certain Duke, Kansas or Kentucky had anyone much higher profile than the guys I named off return unexpectedly.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... all-season
One blessing of nbadraft.net being super slow to update is you can see where a guy was rated for a bit before they update to remove him. Tshibwe was projected as the 45th pick.
This echoes what I said about Bacot above and the basic tenor of my responses to you. It isn't college productivity. Bacot and Tshibwe are very productive college players, but their pro projection lags.
This hits what I said to you earlier, lottery picks leave. First rounders almost always leave. Guys who are great in college but lack the NBA qualities that get them into the first round (I used Jalen Brunson and Allonzo Trier as some examples) are the returners you watch for. Those guys leave sometimes too, like Nick Johnson, but they stay at a much more significant rate.
Spiff, they're going to return the core of a roster of mostly 5-star players for a third straight year. Isn't part of the job of a college program to develop guys into pros?Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:04 pmI'm not sure I blame player development.Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:16 pmYep. How's that player development at ucla going? Their guys keep coming back because they're not good enough for the pros. Jaquez is their best player, and even he knows it's a waste of time to declare for the draft. And Juzang blew it by coming back when his draft stock peaked last spring. Anyway, f ucla.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:53 pmJuzang's stock reminds me of the Jay-Z diss line to Nas: "fell from top ten to not mentioned at all."Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:28 pm These are all good points, Spiff. I don't disagree.
Here's another one. He's been overrated since last year's tournament, and now he's going to be undrafted.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/337 ... la-scoring
He was rising fast after the tourney last year, went to the combine to solidify the 1st round grade and then completely crapped the bed in his combine scrimmages. This year was more of stagnating and now his stock is basically nonexistent.
Once the dust settles from all these draft decisions, it'll be nice to get a clearer sense of how our and others' rosters look.
Most are actually 4 star guys. Basically the entire team has been developed to above average to great NCAA players, but their ceilings as pros are just limited. Jacquez for instance is awesome, but he's not playing in the league. Juzang is basically a bigger Allonzo Trier, so his ceiling is capped and he should've left when it made sense to (fresh off a Final Four run). Tyger is great, but yeah at best a 3rd string in the league. They're developing their players just fine, they just have natural limitations that development can't change.Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:27 pmSpiff, they're going to return the core of a roster of mostly 5-star players for a third straight year. Isn't part of the job of a college program to develop guys into pros?Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:04 pmI'm not sure I blame player development.Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:16 pmYep. How's that player development at ucla going? Their guys keep coming back because they're not good enough for the pros. Jaquez is their best player, and even he knows it's a waste of time to declare for the draft. And Juzang blew it by coming back when his draft stock peaked last spring. Anyway, f ucla.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:53 pmJuzang's stock reminds me of the Jay-Z diss line to Nas: "fell from top ten to not mentioned at all."Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:28 pm These are all good points, Spiff. I don't disagree.
Here's another one. He's been overrated since last year's tournament, and now he's going to be undrafted.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/337 ... la-scoring
He was rising fast after the tourney last year, went to the combine to solidify the 1st round grade and then completely crapped the bed in his combine scrimmages. This year was more of stagnating and now his stock is basically nonexistent.
Once the dust settles from all these draft decisions, it'll be nice to get a clearer sense of how our and others' rosters look.
What Choo said. UCLA has guys who are capped out because they lack pro physical skills.Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:27 pmSpiff, they're going to return the core of a roster of mostly 5-star players for a third straight year. Isn't part of the job of a college program to develop guys into pros?Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:04 pmI'm not sure I blame player development.Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 1:16 pmYep. How's that player development at ucla going? Their guys keep coming back because they're not good enough for the pros. Jaquez is their best player, and even he knows it's a waste of time to declare for the draft. And Juzang blew it by coming back when his draft stock peaked last spring. Anyway, f ucla.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:53 pmJuzang's stock reminds me of the Jay-Z diss line to Nas: "fell from top ten to not mentioned at all."Beachcat97 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:28 pm These are all good points, Spiff. I don't disagree.
Here's another one. He's been overrated since last year's tournament, and now he's going to be undrafted.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/337 ... la-scoring
He was rising fast after the tourney last year, went to the combine to solidify the 1st round grade and then completely crapped the bed in his combine scrimmages. This year was more of stagnating and now his stock is basically nonexistent.
Once the dust settles from all these draft decisions, it'll be nice to get a clearer sense of how our and others' rosters look.
Tyger is small but not super quick or a great shooter. To be a real pro prospect at his size, you need to offset your size with speed and shooting, but he doesn't.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:32 pm Tyger's issue is his size. He actually was a much better player as a sophomore because he was a consistent shooter. Could lay off of him as a freshman. But not last year. But at a listed 5' 11", Tyger will always have an issue guarding larger guards.
Zuzang is a fine college player. But his ceiling is end of the bench NBA. Just not an elite athlete, elite shooter, elite rebounder or elite defender. And you need to be elite in at least one to play in the NBA. Mathurin is an elite athlete. Koloko is an elite rim defender, which gives them a chance at success at the next level.
This is all true, and man does it put colleges in a weird situation with recruiting. You absolutely want to get the Aaron Gordons and Deandre Aytons when you can, but the more of these guys you put on your roster, the more you're risking a mass exodus and poor continuity from year to year.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:31 am
The guys who are returning are doing it because their stock is low second round or UDFA, not because they're really hardcore committed to college. Like I said above, name me the last guy anywhere who got a lottery grade and returned.
Tim Duncan?
Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:31 amTyger is small but not super quick or a great shooter. To be a real pro prospect at his size, you need to offset your size with speed and shooting, but he doesn't.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:32 pm Tyger's issue is his size. He actually was a much better player as a sophomore because he was a consistent shooter. Could lay off of him as a freshman. But not last year. But at a listed 5' 11", Tyger will always have an issue guarding larger guards.
Zuzang is a fine college player. But his ceiling is end of the bench NBA. Just not an elite athlete, elite shooter, elite rebounder or elite defender. And you need to be elite in at least one to play in the NBA. Mathurin is an elite athlete. Koloko is an elite rim defender, which gives them a chance at success at the next level.
You almost never build the returning core beachcat talks about by guys turning down the NBA. You build that core by the NBA turning down your guys.
The guys who are returning are doing it because their stock is low second round or UDFA, not because they're really hardcore committed to college. Like I said above, name me the last guy anywhere who got a lottery grade and returned.
Tim Duncan?
David Robinson?Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:31 amTyger is small but not super quick or a great shooter. To be a real pro prospect at his size, you need to offset your size with speed and shooting, but he doesn't.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:32 pm Tyger's issue is his size. He actually was a much better player as a sophomore because he was a consistent shooter. Could lay off of him as a freshman. But not last year. But at a listed 5' 11", Tyger will always have an issue guarding larger guards.
Zuzang is a fine college player. But his ceiling is end of the bench NBA. Just not an elite athlete, elite shooter, elite rebounder or elite defender. And you need to be elite in at least one to play in the NBA. Mathurin is an elite athlete. Koloko is an elite rim defender, which gives them a chance at success at the next level.
You almost never build the returning core beachcat talks about by guys turning down the NBA. You build that core by the NBA turning down your guys.
The guys who are returning are doing it because their stock is low second round or UDFA, not because they're really hardcore committed to college. Like I said above, name me the last guy anywhere who got a lottery grade and returned.
Tim Duncan?
Maybe, I forget whether people projected Bibby. I did remember Duncan being a potential #1 and definite top 3 when he returned. Bibby was great and obviously would have peaked his stock in the tourney, so it wouldn't shock me if he went lottery after his freshman year.UAEebs86 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:44 amAnd then Mike Bibby the next year? Not sure if he got a lottery grade in 1997, but he was the second overall pick in 1998.Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:31 amTyger is small but not super quick or a great shooter. To be a real pro prospect at his size, you need to offset your size with speed and shooting, but he doesn't.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:32 pm Tyger's issue is his size. He actually was a much better player as a sophomore because he was a consistent shooter. Could lay off of him as a freshman. But not last year. But at a listed 5' 11", Tyger will always have an issue guarding larger guards.
Zuzang is a fine college player. But his ceiling is end of the bench NBA. Just not an elite athlete, elite shooter, elite rebounder or elite defender. And you need to be elite in at least one to play in the NBA. Mathurin is an elite athlete. Koloko is an elite rim defender, which gives them a chance at success at the next level.
You almost never build the returning core beachcat talks about by guys turning down the NBA. You build that core by the NBA turning down your guys.
The guys who are returning are doing it because their stock is low second round or UDFA, not because they're really hardcore committed to college. Like I said above, name me the last guy anywhere who got a lottery grade and returned.
Tim Duncan?
Joakim Noah.UAEebs86 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:44 amSpaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:31 amTyger is small but not super quick or a great shooter. To be a real pro prospect at his size, you need to offset your size with speed and shooting, but he doesn't.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:32 pm Tyger's issue is his size. He actually was a much better player as a sophomore because he was a consistent shooter. Could lay off of him as a freshman. But not last year. But at a listed 5' 11", Tyger will always have an issue guarding larger guards.
Zuzang is a fine college player. But his ceiling is end of the bench NBA. Just not an elite athlete, elite shooter, elite rebounder or elite defender. And you need to be elite in at least one to play in the NBA. Mathurin is an elite athlete. Koloko is an elite rim defender, which gives them a chance at success at the next level.
You almost never build the returning core beachcat talks about by guys turning down the NBA. You build that core by the NBA turning down your guys.
The guys who are returning are doing it because their stock is low second round or UDFA, not because they're really hardcore committed to college. Like I said above, name me the last guy anywhere who got a lottery grade and returned.
Tim Duncan?
And then Mike Bibby the next year? Not sure if he got a lottery grade in 1997, but he was the second overall pick in 1998.
Not bad. I forgot him.ChooChooCat wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:03 amJoakim Noah.UAEebs86 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:44 amSpaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:31 amTyger is small but not super quick or a great shooter. To be a real pro prospect at his size, you need to offset your size with speed and shooting, but he doesn't.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:32 pm Tyger's issue is his size. He actually was a much better player as a sophomore because he was a consistent shooter. Could lay off of him as a freshman. But not last year. But at a listed 5' 11", Tyger will always have an issue guarding larger guards.
Zuzang is a fine college player. But his ceiling is end of the bench NBA. Just not an elite athlete, elite shooter, elite rebounder or elite defender. And you need to be elite in at least one to play in the NBA. Mathurin is an elite athlete. Koloko is an elite rim defender, which gives them a chance at success at the next level.
You almost never build the returning core beachcat talks about by guys turning down the NBA. You build that core by the NBA turning down your guys.
The guys who are returning are doing it because their stock is low second round or UDFA, not because they're really hardcore committed to college. Like I said above, name me the last guy anywhere who got a lottery grade and returned.
Tim Duncan?
And then Mike Bibby the next year? Not sure if he got a lottery grade in 1997, but he was the second overall pick in 1998.
Gonna throw a few more names out. Not sure these guys would've been lotto picks if they'd come out a year earlier, but they at least would've had a shot at it:Spaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:12 amNot bad. I forgot him.ChooChooCat wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:03 amJoakim Noah.UAEebs86 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:44 amSpaceman Spiff wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:31 amTyger is small but not super quick or a great shooter. To be a real pro prospect at his size, you need to offset your size with speed and shooting, but he doesn't.AzCatFan2 wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:32 pm Tyger's issue is his size. He actually was a much better player as a sophomore because he was a consistent shooter. Could lay off of him as a freshman. But not last year. But at a listed 5' 11", Tyger will always have an issue guarding larger guards.
Zuzang is a fine college player. But his ceiling is end of the bench NBA. Just not an elite athlete, elite shooter, elite rebounder or elite defender. And you need to be elite in at least one to play in the NBA. Mathurin is an elite athlete. Koloko is an elite rim defender, which gives them a chance at success at the next level.
You almost never build the returning core beachcat talks about by guys turning down the NBA. You build that core by the NBA turning down your guys.
The guys who are returning are doing it because their stock is low second round or UDFA, not because they're really hardcore committed to college. Like I said above, name me the last guy anywhere who got a lottery grade and returned.
Tim Duncan?
And then Mike Bibby the next year? Not sure if he got a lottery grade in 1997, but he was the second overall pick in 1998.
He was the 9th pick after his senior year but I think you're right in that he was probably a lottery pick after his junior year.
I guess maybe Horford and Brewer count from that same team, and they actually went even higher when I look back.