Bear Down Wildcats

btfd16 wrote:My biggest take from today: who cares? For these schools, for us, for everybody. Don’t suspend anyone and change the rules

Mark Emmert's quote:

“These allegations, if true, point to systematic failures that must be fixed and fixed now if we want college sports in America. Simply put, people who engage in this kind of behavior have no place in college sports. They are an affront to all those who play by the rules,” the statement read. “Following the Southern District of New York’s indictments last year, the NCAA Board of Governors and I formed the independent Commission on College Basketball, chaired by Condoleezza Rice, to provide recommendations on how to clean up the sport. With these latest allegations, it’s clear this work is more important now than ever. The Board and I are completely committed to making transformational changes to the game and ensuring all involved in college basketball do so with integrity."

To your point, I have no faith the NCAA will actually recognize reality. They'll do the usual and and act shocked by the pervasive influence of money in order to continue to collect their own money.

This is so awesome! I want more names!

So glad we didn’t got the hank route and self sanction...this is exactly why you don’t do that.

Arizona’s in the clear.

Hopefully Miller is right about things working out for trier and then let’s take names and kick ass.

I too worry about Murray state’s fencing team bearing the brunt of these violations

CalStateTempe wrote:This is so awesome! I want more names!

So glad we didn’t got the hank route and self sanction...this is exactly why you don’t do that.

Arizona’s in the clear.

Hopefully Miller is right about things working out for trier and then let’s take names and kick ass.

I'm not sure that we're so much in the clear as that about 15 schools just jumped in front of us in the line of fire. We can still get ours, but the NCAA has a lot more people to go through first now.

I'm so happy Duke is implicated, by the way. They're literally the NCAA basketball sacred cow.

HOw about Wichita state and van fleet?

Hope they get sanctioned to oblivion

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:This is so awesome! I want more names!

So glad we didn’t got the hank route and self sanction...this is exactly why you don’t do that.

Arizona’s in the clear.

Hopefully Miller is right about things working out for trier and then let’s take names and kick ass.

I'm not sure that we're so much in the clear as that about 15 schools just jumped in front of us in the line of fire. We can still get ours, but the NCAA has a lot more people to go through first now.

I'm so happy Duke is implicated, by the way. They're literally the NCAA basketball sacred cow.

That’s huge, it’s as if woodens bruins are impiicsted.

I’m personally happy that the Carolina way is on the list. That is one dirty dirty program
.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:This is so awesome! I want more names!

So glad we didn’t got the hank route and self sanction...this is exactly why you don’t do that.

Arizona’s in the clear.

Hopefully Miller is right about things working out for trier and then let’s take names and kick ass.

I'm not sure that we're so much in the clear as that about 15 schools just jumped in front of us in the line of fire. We can still get ours, but the NCAA has a lot more people to go through first now.

I'm so happy Duke is implicated, by the way. They're literally the NCAA basketball sacred cow.

They bought Carter a meal, not the biggest thing in the world. They'll make him sit out a game like they did when Pinder was bought a plane ticket.

Xavier too?

Ugh can’t get that win back either.

Amazing so many teams that Arizona most too in tourney games.

So let go win and vacate this season! Play trier anyway. I’m serious if duke and mich st get to play their ineligible players we should be able to play ours. (By NCAA rules trier being ineligible that is, I don’t think he’s ineligible)

Just roll it out and let’s go.

So that’s how we lost josh Jackson. Momma got paid.

Dirty dirty Kansas.

NYCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:This is so awesome! I want more names!

So glad we didn’t got the hank route and self sanction...this is exactly why you don’t do that.

Arizona’s in the clear.

Hopefully Miller is right about things working out for trier and then let’s take names and kick ass.

I'm not sure that we're so much in the clear as that about 15 schools just jumped in front of us in the line of fire. We can still get ours, but the NCAA has a lot more people to go through first now.

I'm so happy Duke is implicated, by the way. They're literally the NCAA basketball sacred cow.

They bought Carter a meal, not the biggest thing in the world. They'll make him sit out a game like they did when Pinder was bought a plane ticket.

Pinder had to repay before he was eligible. If Carter didn't repay, there's a decent case Duke played an ineligible player for 80% of their season.

If you take pay from an agent, you are ineligible until reinstated. I found a Notre Dame FAQ that outlines it nicely:

https://www3.nd.edu/~ncaacomp/Amateurism_Agents.shtml" target="_blank

Twitter thread, still don't think the NCAA will do anything

NYCat wrote:Twitter thread, still don't think the NCAA will do anything

They'll probably just stick with punishing Allonzo for metabolizing his own fat.

This is probably the first wave of names/schools being released and we survived it. Survive & advance.

NYCat wrote:This is probably the first wave of names/schools being released and we survived it. Survive & advance.

I like the idea of a March Madness style FBI NCAA probe.

I'd say we are looking at a 3 seed?

Longhorned wrote:

NYCat wrote:Twitter thread, still don't think the NCAA will do anything

They'll probably just stick with punishing Allonzo for metabolizing his own fat.

It's called fat shaming.

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:This is probably the first wave of names/schools being released and we survived it. Survive & advance.

I like the idea of a March Madness style FBI NCAA probe.

I'd say we are looking at a 3 seed?

We're the ASU of the probe bracket. Looked like a 1 seed in November and December, but falling fast in February.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:This is probably the first wave of names/schools being released and we survived it. Survive & advance.

I like the idea of a March Madness style FBI NCAA probe.

I'd say we are looking at a 3 seed?

We're the ASU of the probe bracket. Looked like a 1 seed in November and December, but falling fast in February.

Still the non conference champions though.

NYCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:This is probably the first wave of names/schools being released and we survived it. Survive & advance.

I like the idea of a March Madness style FBI NCAA probe.

I'd say we are looking at a 3 seed?

We're the ASU of the probe bracket. Looked like a 1 seed in November and December, but falling fast in February.

Still the non conference champions though.

Nah, Louisville won the natty across the board this year. OOC, they lost a coach, a top recruit and got caught offering $150,000 on tape. In conference play they had to forfeit a national championship and their ex-coach embarassed them by not knowing when to take the L and move on.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:This is probably the first wave of names/schools being released and we survived it. Survive & advance.

I like the idea of a March Madness style FBI NCAA probe.

I'd say we are looking at a 3 seed?

We're the ASU of the probe bracket. Looked like a 1 seed in November and December, but falling fast in February.

Lol yes! was going to say if we are building this thing correctly we started out as a lock 1 seed but now looking at a bubble 12.

Utah’s sanctimonious prick fans getting dragged today has me smiling so hard my goddamn face hurts.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

NYCat wrote:This is probably the first wave of names/schools being released and we survived it. Survive & advance.

I like the idea of a March Madness style FBI NCAA probe.

I'd say we are looking at a 3 seed?

We're the ASU of the probe bracket. Looked like a 1 seed in November and December, but falling fast in February.

Lol yes! was going to say if we are building this thing correctly we started out as a lock 1 seed but now looking at a bubble 12.

I don't think we're a bubble team quite yet. The committee looks at the body of work, and Book being on an FBI wire really gives our RPI a major boost.

I still think we make it into the dance, but it's looking like more of an uphill climb to make the Sweet 16.

Chicat wrote:Utah’s sanctimonious prick fans getting dragged today has me smiling so hard my goddamn face hurts.

Let's not forget Coach K's comments about losing out on Akot to us

Utah's Larry Krystkowiak says NCAA scandal not shocking or surprising

“But you can always look in the mirror and know that we’re doing things the right way,”

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865 ... ising.html" target="_blank

Report: Ex-Ute Kyle Kuzma among those who received money while in school, according to FBI documents

This fall, Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott named Utah athletic director Chris Hill to a task force charged with addressing “issues that are threatening the integrity of collegiate athletics and to protect our student-athletes.”

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes ... documents/" target="_blank

Going to need a new task force leader

Gilbertcat wrote:Utah's Larry Krystkowiak says NCAA scandal not shocking or surprising

“But you can always look in the mirror and know that we’re doing things the right way,”

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865 ... ising.html" target="_blank

Report: Ex-Ute Kyle Kuzma among those who received money while in school, according to FBI documents

This fall, Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott named Utah athletic director Chris Hill to a task force charged with addressing “issues that are threatening the integrity of collegiate athletics and to protect our student-athletes.”

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes ... documents/" target="_blank

Going to need a new task force leader

Life comes at you fast...

Cleared already huh

That uncompromising commitment to compliance must be why they just pulled three of the top five recruits for next year. Probably wowed them with a tour of the compliance office.

That’s how you continue to play an ineligible player. Lol

NYCat wrote:Cleared already huh

No surprise. Probably went something like this...

Coach K: Did you take money?

Carter: No.

Coach K: He said he didn't take the money.

NCAA: Good enough for us. We figured there was no way a Duke player did anything wrong but thanks for letting us know.

What happens if a violation occurs?
Example: A student-athlete is befriended by a runner for an agent. The student-athlete is unaware of the connection between the runner and agent. The runner gives the student-athlete long-distance calling cards, pays for meals, articles of clothing and a new car stereo. The student-athlete never asks why the runner is providing him with these items.

The student-athlete's educational institution becomes aware of the runner's identity and the provision of benefits to the student-athlete.

The institution must declare the student-athlete ineligible for intercollegiate competition. The institution decides to ask for the reinstatement of the student-athlete's eligibility and sends a request to the NCAA staff.

At a minimum, the student-athlete will be required to repay the value of the impermissible benefits and will be withheld from a certain number of contests, based on case precedent.

https://www3.nd.edu/~ncaacomp/Amateurism_Agents.shtml" target="_blank

NCAA sure granted eligibility in a hurry then

DrWildcat wrote:

NYCat wrote:Cleared already huh

No surprise. Probably went something like this...

Coach K: Did you take money?

Carter: No.

Coach K: He said he didn't take the money.

NCAA: Good enough for us. We figured there was no way a Duke player did anything wrong but thanks for letting us know.

Also known as the Trump-Putin strategy.


I'll report myself Machina.

The NCAA is so mad at [inset school here} they will give 'Lonzo Trier two months to "get it out of his system."

Hopefully Colorado and Oregon are named in the next batch.

Gilbertcat wrote:

What happens if a violation occurs?
Example: A student-athlete is befriended by a runner for an agent. The student-athlete is unaware of the connection between the runner and agent. The runner gives the student-athlete long-distance calling cards, pays for meals, articles of clothing and a new car stereo. The student-athlete never asks why the runner is providing him with these items.

The student-athlete's educational institution becomes aware of the runner's identity and the provision of benefits to the student-athlete.

The institution must declare the student-athlete ineligible for intercollegiate competition. The institution decides to ask for the reinstatement of the student-athlete's eligibility and sends a request to the NCAA staff.

At a minimum, the student-athlete will be required to repay the value of the impermissible benefits and will be withheld from a certain number of contests, based on case precedent.

https://www3.nd.edu/~ncaacomp/Amateurism_Agents.shtml" target="_blank

NCAA sure granted eligibility in a hurry then

Yeah, I'd quoted that earlier. The reason this is so impactful is even the dinky benefits like meals make the athlete ineligible until the NCAA asseses, repayment is made and they're reinstated.

That definitely didn't happen for anyone on that list, so they're ineligible until reinstated if the spreadsheets are true.

DrWildcat wrote:

NYCat wrote:Cleared already huh

No surprise. Probably went something like this...

Coach K: Did you take money?

Carter: No.

Coach K: He said he didn't take the money.

NCAA: Good enough for us. We figured there was no way a Duke player did anything wrong but thanks for letting us know.

More like this:

NCAA: We have a new policy, where benefits are allowed up to a certain dollar limit.

Coach K: What's the dollar limit?

NCAA; How much did Wendell's meal cost again?

Coach K: $72.81.

NCAA: Our threshold is $72.82, so this won't affect his eligibility.

Or...

Coach K: now I'm going to ask you a question, and if you say "yes" you'll be suspended for a not yet determined amount of time, but if you say "no" absolutely nothing will happen...Did you accept a free meal from an agent?

Carter: ye...(sees coach k shaking his head and morning "no"...uuuhhh...no?

When the investigation is over, my suspicion is that the NCAA will drop harsh sanctions on the restaurant for not properly splitting the bill so Carter paid his half.

Chicat wrote:Utah’s sanctimonious prick fans getting dragged today has me smiling so hard my goddamn face hurts.

I feel like this post caused the Miller news to come out.

Part of Sean's vindication should be an FBI wiretap of the NCAA Mandarins discussing their coverups of Duke, Kansas, Kentucky and UNC and what to do with the payoff money.

Simple as that

Drip drip drip

salimsHeadband dropped an interesting summary on Twitter:

I want to be sure everyone understands why Deandre Ayton's eligibility matters to the FBI, and what I think that might mean for Sean Miller as a result.

I'm not an expert in this field, and by all accounts it's a novel legal theory, but my best understanding of the legal theory against Book, etc. (the Defendants) is that they defrauded the Universities (gov't entities) by allowing players to accept federal money when they knew those players to be ineligible because they (the Defendants) had PAID those players outside of NCAA guidelines, thereby creating their ineligibility.

This is essentially Book's legal defense: "No, I never paid (whoever), I kept that money for myself." That player is eligible, and Book never defrauded the University (the listed victim).

So why does this matter to Miller? Why would the FBI investigate Ayton? It's not illegal for a kid to take $100,000 to go or pretend to go to a school to play basketball, so why investigate? And why wasn't Sean Miller named in the initial (or any subsequent) complaint?

Sean Miller was (allegedly) captured on the initial set of wiretaps. If the FBI had evidence that he paid or caused Ayton to be paid, this would have made Ayton ineligible and Miller could (and would) have properly been charged just as Book was. But he wasn't.

The fact that the FBI cleared Ayton matters. There are only two possible conclusions that I can draw: either 1) Ayton's family accepted $100,000 and hid it so well that the FBI and the US Attorney's Office can't find it, before they even knew they were being investigated, or 2) Ayton never got paid. Which is what the FBI has already said. If he had, Miller would have been charged.

I don't know what's on thousands of hours of wiretaps. I don't know what Miller might have said sincerely, facetiously, or sarcastically to Christian Dawkins. But if Ayton had gotten paid, doesn't it stand to reason the FBI would have told us, implicitly or explicitly?

Lastly, this information came from one of two places: Dawkins's attorney, or Book's attorney. Schlabach himself all but confirmed it. I would consider the source, the implications, their motivations for releasing it, and what it might mean for them in weighing all of this.

Donated the meal amount cost ($40) to charity
Any other player can do the same as long as it's under $200

Im surprised all the focus has been on the Miller wiretap and nothing on the email bombshells that were in the yahoo report: Emails in hoops corruption case detail inner workings of sport's underbelly
https://sports.yahoo.com/black-market-d ... 05930.html" target="_blank

These are from daily email summaries of the runner Christian Dawkins to his agent boss, talking about discussions on securing Brian Bowen whom they had sway over and eventually sold to Louisville, and who we were "recruiting" and apparently really wanted badly. Of the bombshells:

- “Now that they need something from us,” Dawkins writes, referencing Bowen, “they’re all apologetic.” (He was referencing Arizona coach Sean Miller being “all upset” with ASM over a recruiting issue with a player’s parent.)
- Pasternack and Book are also named, written as if they're all familiar with each other and have been scheming together for some time on different players and parents.
- Book promises to use influence on Alkins in order for ASM to use their power over Bowen: Aug 20, Dawkins follows up on Alkins: “Book at Arizona has the juice with the situation, they’re going to listen to him.
- Pasternack also wanted to land Bowen badly, so he talked about steering players to ASM, like Markkanen.

Pretty interesting stuff, Miller and his staff using the players as pawns behind their backs. This is Arizona?

Just a point of reference to the Yahoo email story:

Sure there are names in the email and mentions of recruits and Arizona, but lets keep in mind that when a player gets ready to leave the program they will most likely ask their coach about prospective agents.

It is in the Universities BEST interest for the coaching staff to have some sort of connection with future agents so they can be somewhat familiar and vet the prospective agency even just a little.

There is a quote by Dawkins that says Miller is all upset about a recruiting issue he had with a players family member that ASM was in contact with...and later it appears Pasternick is all apologetic...

Let me play out that email in a "Innocent until proven guilty" scenario...

It is possible that Dawkins contacted Miller because he was kinda representing Bowen, whom Miller was admittedly interested in...in the course of talking to Dawkins it probably came out that Dawkins had screwed the pooch by paying one of Bowens relatives or providing benefits that would jeopardize his recruitment...(this later proved to be the case)...

In this context it is VERY PROBABLE that Miller discussed what could be construed as a negotiation by simply asking "You paid what to whom? You motherfucker!!!"

And at this point Dawkins was probably throwing out numbers surrounding Bowens price as relayed by his relative that Dawkins was willing to pay.

He claims Miller was upset.

The context of that should be vetted and the most likely answer is MIller was PISSED because he knew Bowen would be possibly ineligible due to Dawkins bullshit.

Pasternick MIGHT have joined the Book "side job" bullshit train (very possible giving the evidence) and Miller still comes out of this clean.

This is my current take on these emails...

Any other take demonstrates a bias that is not UA fan based and should be put on the enemies list so we don't have to read that shit.

RiseAndFire wrote:Im surprised all the focus has been on the Miller wiretap and nothing on the email bombshells that were in the yahoo report: Emails in hoops corruption case detail inner workings of sport's underbelly
https://sports.yahoo.com/black-market-d ... 05930.html" target="_blank

These are from daily email summaries of the runner Christian Dawkins to his agent boss, talking about discussions on securing Brian Bowen whom they had sway over and eventually sold to Louisville, and who we were "recruiting" and apparently really wanted badly. Of the bombshells:

- “Now that they need something from us,” Dawkins writes, referencing Bowen, “they’re all apologetic.” (He was referencing Arizona coach Sean Miller being “all upset” with ASM over a recruiting issue with a player’s parent.)
- Pasternack and Book are also named, written as if they're all familiar with each other and have been scheming together for some time on different players and parents.
- Book promises to use influence on Alkins in order for ASM to use their power over Bowen: Aug 20, Dawkins follows up on Alkins: “Book at Arizona has the juice with the situation, they’re going to listen to him.
- Pasternack also wanted to land Bowen badly, so he talked about steering players to ASM, like Markkanen.

Pretty interesting stuff, Miller and his staff using the players as pawns behind their backs. This is Arizona?

Those aren't bombshells. The fact Dawkins was bribing Book was known from day 1. There was an entire section of the FBI complaint devoted to Dawkins trying to get in on us due to the talent we had.

The only reference to Miller is that he was mad about something. Pasternack was in the FBI complaint meeting Dawkins. In the FBI complaint, Dawkins said he thought Pasternack would ask for money at some point, but there's no allegation that ever materialized.

At least as to Arizona, the emails don't have new info beyond the FBI complaint. Ask Russ Smith, though. He has a lot of repetitive suppositions about them that you'll love.

Have any of you actually read the FBI document containing the charges against Book? Here's what I've learned:
1. Book had no relationship with Dawkins prior to last year in march.
2. Dawkins was being led to do things by UC-1, the FBI undercover agent who financed the whole operation.
3. Book took a bribe from Dawkins/Sood/UC-1 of $5000, then $15,000, apparently used it to pay Player-5 (Quinerly) to come to Arizona.
4. Book promised he'd deliver Player-6 to Dawkins. Player-6 is a sheltered kid and all interactions will have to be with his relative, the FBI calls him The "Handler".
5. UC-1, Dawkins and Sood asked how they could get Player-7. Book said he was working on it.
6. Apparently, Dawkins, Adidas, the FBI and some AAU assholes all conspired to pay player-12 (Little) $150,000 to go to go to University-7 (Miami). They apparently had to beat a price of $150,000 to keep him "from going to one of their schools".

Player-5 we all know is Quinerly. Player-12 is Nasir Little. I don't know who Player-6 is. I suspect Player-7 is Ayton.

So it looks like the FBI is the dirtiest player in all of this.

Sounds like Dawkins and Adidas double crossed Richardson to get Little to go to Miami.

Player-7 was never paid to come to UA and actually it's Player-7 the agents are trying to get access to, but they don't have access to him at the time of the filing. Player-7 has done nothing wrong, he was merely being talked about by bad guys.

Player-6 has done nothing wrong, but he may have a relative who unbeknownst to him was approached regarding influencing him to sign with Dawkins.

Oh, and all the time Dawkins was shopping Bowen (Player-10) to coaches, which Pitino (Coach-2)(U-6) eventually took him up on.

So given this, I think either Dawkins/FBI/Sood offered Miller for access to Player-7, and that's the wiretap ESPN reported on, and that's why Ayton is named (ALTHOUGH THIS IS NOT WHAT ESPN ALLEGED IN THIER ARTICLE) or else Dawkins offered Miller a price tag of $100,000 for Bowen and Miller did not tell him yes. I hope it's the latter.

Sources:
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2 ... estigation" target="_blank

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press ... 6/download" target="_blank

edit:
just read spaceman's post, I guess Player-6 is Rawle Alkins. I hope his family didn't fuck him, and I hope he comes back healthy and tears it up next year. He doesn't deserve this shit.

This is why using "an unnamed source close to the investigation" as your only source can wreck a person's life.

All it takes is one dishonest person dropping a name to a reporter --- and there ya go.

https://www.theshadowleague.com/story/3 ... name-pt-ii" target="_blank

I vote for killing this thread.