Bear Down Wildcats

Appears Trier has a good chance, no one really stands out otherwise.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-me ... west-award" target="_blank

2018 Jerry West Award Preseason Watch List
Allonzo Trier Arizona
Mustapha Heron Auburn
Jerome Robinson Boston College
TJ Haws BYU
Marcus Foster Creighton
Grayson Allen Duke
KeVaughn Allen Florida
MJ Walker Florida State
Rob Gray Houston
Malik Newman Kansas
Hamidou Diallo Kentucky
Lonnie Walker Miami
Quinndary Weatherspoon Mississippi St.
E.C. Matthews Rhode Island
Khadeen Carrington Seton Hall
Shamorie Ponds St. John's
Tyus Battle Syracuse
Andrew Jones Texas
De'Anthony Melton USC
Daxter Miles Jr. West Virginia

His ability to shoot from mid range and 3, to create his own shot, to drive and hit tough shots in traffic in the paint and to dunk, I would say Trier is the best offensive guard in the nation

PHXCATS wrote: It's an honest question. Trier is great offensively (maybe the best in the game this year) and I hate when people hate in him for taking shots he can easily make and when No one else on the team.has the guts to shoot and step up.

But his defense is not great and I have seen him make multiple mental errors on the defensive end the last several games.

Much more constructive reply - yes defense is considered though like most major awards it seems offensive production takes the front seat.

To start the comparisons, let's cut some players starting with the mid majors. None of them are having Jock Landale-esque seasons of dominance, with the closest being Kendrick Nunn - though he's taking a ridiculous number of shots to get his 26ppg on a team going nowhere. Safe to cut him, Mcgee of Wofford (3rd place in the Southern won't do it), Robert Gray (not enough production), Matthews of Rhode Island (good team but not enough production out of Matthews). Chandler Hutchinson is a good two way player who crashes the boards and gets buckets, though he's not an efficient scorer with a 105 ORtg on the year shooting 34% from deep. He's playing better in conference but its the MWC and his Boise St team is poised to miss the tournament cut.

Let's also cut Tyus Battle and Grayson Allen. Allen has played like a bum in conference play and doesn't have nearly the usage nor efficiency to justify even being on this list. Tyus Battle doesn't have the passing numbers or shooting efficiency to make the top cut.

That leaves Trier, Carsen Edwards, and Marcus Foster. Foster is a less efficient version of Trier on a worse team, so nod to Trier. Edwards is a better defender and ball handler than Trier (with a 2.2 Def BoxPM vs Trier's -0.4 and only a miserly 11.7% TO% against Trier's 17%). He's also on a marquee team that has sat in the top ten for the majority of the season. Edwards isn't nearly the scoring threat that Trier is, however, with just 16.6 ppg and a decent 118 ORtg.

The value that the committee places on offense vs defense will likely be seen in who gets the award between Edwards and Trier when the winner is announced in early April.

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:That analysis rings true, zonagrad.

Can this be the last post ever when we explicitly mention the Illinois elite eight game? We should substitute a code word that doesn’t carry all the harsh feelings.

How about “cacao”?

I disagree. We need to strip the word Illinois of its power over us. We need to embrace and co-opt the pain of the memory, not run from it.

I'm kind of the expert on that "not run from it" experiment. I've spent 11 years now surrounded by orange and blue every day on the Illinois campus. Let's just say that experiment doesn't work.

Embrace and co-opt the pain of the memory now. Insanity later.

That's painful. Like being on a diet and walking past a Dunkin Donuts every day. I think you could be one of those islanders who walks on hot coals. However, I do enjoy the fact that Illinois remains garbage.

CalStateTempe wrote:Salin doesn’t share triers penchant for iso ball at the end of games.

Still, triers been looking good the past few games. Hope he keeps it up.

Um, all 3 of Salim's senior year game winners (ASU, OSU and UCLA) were pretty pure iso sets.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Salin doesn’t share triers penchant for iso ball at the end of games.

Still, triers been looking good the past few games. Hope he keeps it up.

Um, all 3 of Salim's senior year game winners (ASU, OSU and UCLA) were pretty pure iso sets.

Yeah and he hit them. Game winners.

Trier just goes 1 on 3 and bricks

Again, he’s been playing well lately. Hope he keeps it up.

My god. Trier is amazing on offense. Amazing.

If you want to pick apart his D then fine, but he is an amazing offensive weapon.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:Salin doesn’t share triers penchant for iso ball at the end of games.

Still, triers been looking good the past few games. Hope he keeps it up.

Um, all 3 of Salim's senior year game winners (ASU, OSU and UCLA) were pretty pure iso sets.

Yeah and he hit them. Game winners.

Trier just goes 1 on 3 and bricks

Again, he’s been playing well lately. Hope he keeps it up.

That's where I think the criticism exists. Not in playing iso ball, but that Salim played the same and made 3 big shots as a senior.

That said, I do remember the days that people recognized that seniors were better set up for clutch success. Salim had a stormy career at Arizona, and before his senior year, his legacy would have been pretty mixed. Trier is a junior right now.

If Trier took as many shots as other 2 guards...

Olsondogg wrote:My god. Trier is amazing on offense. Amazing.

If you want to pick apart his D then fine, but he is an amazing offensive weapon.

agree

Olsondogg wrote:If Trier took as many shots as other 2 guards...

Absurd. He'd be a NPOY candidate scoring 25+ a game.

Remember when Joe Young, bullshit Pac-12 POY, took 16 shots a game to score 20pts? Trier is doing the same with 11.

Trae Young? Taking TWENTY shots a game. Nearly twice what Trier is taking!! OF COURSE he's scoring ten more points. If Trier had that greenlight he'd be a national sensation.

Thankfully we've got a better team than that and we can get 10-11 FGAs out of Rawle and Ayton at high efficiency as well. Honestly I wish Trier would increase his usage a touch - he's just been so efficient. He could start by taking a couple more shots/drives in our first halves.

Here's a list of guys since 2000 at Arizona with >24% usage (Kenpom cutoff for high usage player) and >125ORtg.

* Salim Stoudamire ('05) - 126.1 ORtg on 24.0% USG... 18.4ppg
* Derrick Williams ('11) - 128.8 ORtg on 28.9% USG... 19.5ppg
* Allonzo Trier ('17) - 125.3 ORtg on 25.6% USG... 17.2ppg
* Allonzo Trier ('18) - 132.7 ORtg on 25.1% USG... 19.9ppg
* Deandre Ayton ('18) - 131.3 ORtg on 26.1% USG... 19.7ppg

That's it. Those are our best offensive players since our last Final Four.

Trier is the most dangerous offensive player we've had in a generation, and he's likely having the best offensive season we've ever seen at Arizona. No one matches him in efficiency and production. Jason Terry's senior season, where he scored 21.9ppg on his way to earning consensus first team All American, is the closest you'll find... and Trier is doing it with 54% shooting against Terry's 44% shooting. You have to go back to Khalid Reeves's All American season in '94 to get close to making an argument (24.2ppg on 16fgas and 48% shooting).

We don't appreciate what he's doing.

YoDeFoe wrote:
We don't appreciate what he's doing.

agree

YoDeFoe wrote:Here's a list of guys since 2000 at Arizona with >24% usage (Kenpom cutoff for high usage player) and >125ORtg.

* Salim Stoudamire ('05) - 126.1 ORtg on 24.0% USG... 18.4ppg
* Derrick Williams ('11) - 128.8 ORtg on 28.9% USG... 19.5ppg
* Allonzo Trier ('17) - 125.3 ORtg on 25.6% USG... 17.2ppg
* Allonzo Trier ('18) - 132.7 ORtg on 25.1% USG... 19.9ppg
* Deandre Ayton ('18) - 131.3 ORtg on 26.1% USG... 19.7ppg

That's it. Those are our best offensive players since our last Final Four.

Trier is the most dangerous offensive player we've had in a generation, and he's likely having the best offensive season we've ever seen at Arizona. No one matches him in efficiency and production. Jason Terry's senior season, where he scored 21.9ppg on his way to earning consensus first team All American, is the closest you'll find... and Trier is doing it with 54% shooting against Terry's 44% shooting. You have to go back to Khalid Reeves's All American season in '94 to get close to making an argument (24.2ppg on 16fgas and 48% shooting).

We don't appreciate what he's doing.

Wow. Those are some crazy effing numbers.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Wow. Those are some crazy effing numbers.

Doubly crazy that Ayton would have the most efficient and productive season of recent memory if not for Trier doing it one better. Two of the best offensive players we've ever had, playing together.

Let's get Rawle going and maybe play some defense (Akot you wanna hop in here bud?) and hit our fucking stride.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Wow. Those are some crazy effing numbers.

Doubly crazy that Ayton would have the most efficient and productive season of recent memory if not for Trier doing it one better. Two of the best offensive players we've ever had, playing together.

Let's get Rawle going and maybe play some defense (Akot you wanna hop in here bud?) and hit our fucking stride.

Word.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Wow. Those are some crazy effing numbers.

Doubly crazy that Ayton would have the most efficient and productive season of recent memory if not for Trier doing it one better. Two of the best offensive players we've ever had, playing together.

Let's get Rawle going and maybe play some defense (Akot you wanna hop in here bud?) and hit our fucking stride.

I think there's basically no question our offense will be there throughout the tourney. I feel confident saying we will perform at a Final Four level on offense every single tourney game.

The question is whether our D will get us outscored. If we lose, it's because we got outscored. It won't ever be offense.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: I think there's basically no question our offense will be there throughout the tourney. I feel confident saying we will perform at a Final Four level on offense every single tourney game.

The question is whether our D will get us outscored. If we lose, it's because we got outscored. It won't ever be offense.

I'm still reeling from Rawle's 4 points in 30 min for a 52 ORtg game vs. UW... but you're right that our defense letting UW score 1.16ppp was the real problem.

When did RichRod start coaching the hoops team?

I keed, I keed!

He likes it.

YoDeFoe wrote:

He likes it.

Well done!

Great. Next up, stopping dribble penetration.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote: I think there's basically no question our offense will be there throughout the tourney. I feel confident saying we will perform at a Final Four level on offense every single tourney game.

The question is whether our D will get us outscored. If we lose, it's because we got outscored. It won't ever be offense.

I'm still reeling from Rawle's 4 points in 30 min for a 52 ORtg game vs. UW... but you're right that our defense letting UW score 1.16ppp was the real problem.

Yeah, but we had an overall ORtg of 110.3 and 51.6 EFg. That should win games with half decent D. We did not perform on D. Even an off game was a pretty good effort on O.

The big problem was every single player other than Pinder (in 8 min) had a Drtg over 110. That's the sort of unified issue that kills you.

YoDeFoe wrote:

He likes it.

Who says Zo doesn't share?

97cats wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:
We don't appreciate what he's doing.

agree

Its really F'ing sad. Those fans who keep posting they cant wait till he is gone so there is no more ISO ball. They are the ones that incite rage inside me. Absolutely pathetic.

Good luck waiting for another guard to come through Tucson and do what Trier has done since game 1. Its gonna take some years...

TucsonClip wrote:

97cats wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:
We don't appreciate what he's doing.

agree

Its really F'ing sad. Those fans who keep posting they cant wait till he is gone so there is no more ISO ball. They are the ones that incite rage inside me. Absolutely pathetic.

Good luck waiting for another guard to come through Tucson and do what Trier has done since game 1. Its gonna take some years...

So true. And this year, Trier is the difference between potential national champions and not-in-the-conversation-but-look-at-this-amazing-Ayton-guy-who's-awesome-like-Ben Simmons-was-for-LSU.

Longhorned wrote:

TucsonClip wrote:

97cats wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:
We don't appreciate what he's doing.

agree

Its really F'ing sad. Those fans who keep posting they cant wait till he is gone so there is no more ISO ball. They are the ones that incite rage inside me. Absolutely pathetic.

Good luck waiting for another guard to come through Tucson and do what Trier has done since game 1. Its gonna take some years...

So true. And this year, Trier is the difference between potential national champions and not-in-the-conversation-but-look-at-this-amazing-Ayton-guy-who's-awesome-like-Ben Simmons-was-for-LSU.

Agree with the sentiments here on our stud Zo! Those who post non-constructive criticism about him are fools IMO. We will miss him and just like Nick, at the end of the game, there’s no one else I want closing it out and shooting FTs.

Zo is a pure stud....not perfect for sure but one HELL of a talent and we are so lucky to have him on our team. BTFD.

Trier just needs to play like there is 2 halves in a game.

Merkin wrote:Trier just needs to play like there is 2 halves in a game.

yup.

He's really become more consistent over the last 2-3 games with knowing when to go for it/shoot vs hold back. He's letting the game come to him. Its nice to see.

Forgettable player despite his stats. Not a leader and plays with no heart on defense. I'm reminded of this:

We recognize that he is a special and historically special scorer who has saved our bacon numerous times. That does not mean he's not a fundamentally if not outsized contributing factor to this year's most detrimental weakness. He should not be exempt from valid focused criticism. There's a difference between criticism and condemnation. He is effectively our only Junior on a team that desperately needs leadership in the area of improving our weaknesses. He remembers Kadeem, but does not carry anything that resembles the lesson of his torch. Of all our starting upperclassmen he is the only one with the athleticism and ability to do that, but he won't. Perhaps it's too much to ask. It probably is. He's undertaken to increase his assist rate and he deserves our gratitude, but it would pay a greater dividend if he were to be -12% Zo and +12% Kadeem. Our freshmen and our bench and thus our team would improve, and I posit that the net difference would be positive now and in March.

dovecanyoncat wrote:We recognize that he is a special and historically special scorer who has saved our bacon numerous times. That does not mean he's not a fundamentally if not outsized contributing factor to this year's most detrimental weakness. He should not be exempt from valid focused criticism. There's a difference between criticism and condemnation. He is effectively our only Junior on a team that desperately needs leadership in the area of improving our weaknesses. He remembers Kadeem, but does not carry anything that resembles the lesson of his torch. Of all our starting upperclassmen he is the only one with the athleticism and ability to do that, but he won't. Perhaps it's too much to ask. It probably is. He's undertaken to increase his assist rate and he deserves our gratitude, but it would pay a greater dividend if he were to be -12% Zo and +12% Kadeem. Our freshmen and our bench and thus our team would improve, and I posit that the net difference would be positive now and in March.

I thought he had a really solid game tonight. Really solid. Super efficient. 14 points on just 8 shots. 8 rebounds and 4 assists. He should've gone to the line a few more times but...Pac 12 refs.

Trier was fantastic tonight, again

97cats wrote:Trier was fantastic tonight, again

Agreed and the first time in a long while he was on both ends.

Olsondogg wrote:

97cats wrote:Trier was fantastic tonight, again

Agreed and the first time in a long while he was on both ends.

Agreed.

Didn’t see the game, so that’s really good to read. IMO, we go as far in the tourney as Trier’s defense allows. He is superlative on the other end of the court, but he’s been horrifying on D. I’m not really sure why someone who can get to the rim at will can’t keepanyone else from doing exactly the same.

Efficient, clutch, money. Had a great game tonight

he had some odd moments tonight but his dager like three(s) at the end of games have become common and of course he was super efficient again.

whatisee wrote:Efficient, clutch, money. Had a great game tonight

Huge three at the end was the dagger.

zonagrad wrote:

whatisee wrote:Efficient, clutch, money. Had a great game tonight

Huge three at the end was the dagger.

He also had that big steal after getting his pocket picked on the offensive end

For sure on the laser three's...I find myself now rooting for others to pass to him when he's lurking on the perimeter.

He's really come on since mid Jan.

And most of all, I like how he's picking his spots on offense, he's really letting the game come to him and goes for it when the opportunities arise. Not forcing anything.

Second game in a row where he was great on both ends. Appreciate what you are watching, boys.

Led the team in steals (3) and assists (5) with only two turnovers in 38 minutes of play.

Somehow got 19 points off 12 FGAs while getting doubled half the night. Absurd.

whatisee wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

whatisee wrote:Efficient, clutch, money. Had a great game tonight

Huge three at the end was the dagger.

He also had that big steal after getting his pocket picked on the offensive end

"So that's what it looks like when Trier is pissed off on defense."

YoDeFoe wrote:Led the team in steals (3) and assists (5) with only two turnovers in 38 minutes of play.

Somehow got 19 points off 12 FGAs while getting doubled half the night. Absurd.

Zo has been taking it to the next level recently. He is not been "playing hero ball" He has picked his spots perfectly and is totally buying in to the idea of feeding the big boys.

If he continues this mentality in March and commits himself to playing D....

argggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggh

Good luck 'Zo! Appreciate you coming back for this season, but this should end his UA career, and can't blame him.

Damn! Still in his system from 2016...