Bear Down Wildcats

Yeah I don't see a world where this punishment would apply to any school committing a violation prior to this rule coming into effect.

ChooChooCat wrote:Yeah I don't see a world where this punishment would apply to any school committing a violation prior to this rule coming into effect.

That would be completely illogical. That's actually my largest concern, because illogical results are an NCAA specialty.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Yeah I don't see a world where this punishment would apply to any school committing a violation prior to this rule coming into effect.

That would be completely illogical. That's actually my largest concern, because illogical results are an NCAA specialty.

Illogical, certainly.

But never financially stupid.

Per someone I know who works in an athletic department: "schools are punished based upon the penalty structure that existed at the time the violations occurred."

EVCat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Yeah I don't see a world where this punishment would apply to any school committing a violation prior to this rule coming into effect.

That would be completely illogical. That's actually my largest concern, because illogical results are an NCAA specialty.

Illogical, certainly.

But never financially stupid.

C.R.E.A.M.

ChooChooCat wrote:Per someone I know who works in an athletic department: "schools are punished based upon the penalty structure that existed at the time the violations occurred."

The problem with the NCAA is that it's such a fiefdom with no structure of checks and balances that it's like this...until it isn't.

Then they make an example out of USC and let UNC skate. I think it's funny that the committee explicitly condemned UNC.

Jay Bilas and ESPN have their flaws, but Bilas is dead on here:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... mpensation" target="_blank

Unless that’s an apology to Sean Miller and all Arizona fans, I’m not taking that link and putting money in the pockets of ESPN and Jay fucking Bilas.

Chicat wrote:Unless that’s an apology to Sean Miller and all Arizona fans, I’m not taking that link and putting money in the pockets of ESPN and Jay fucking Bilas.

It was a long article, so I didn't want to copy/paste. I have as much beef with ESPN over the Schlabach article, but it is peetty dead on. If it makes you feel better, they're dying on their own.

UAEebs86 wrote:

So, looking through the history, Kaleb Tarczewski played for the New England Playaz. With news like that, you look for who is connected to Arizona and that's all I could find, but...

Adidas affiliated AAU programs don’t normally shuttle kids to Nike schools.

Maryland...you're up.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2 ... estigation" target="_blank

Kansas -- You're up, too:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/maryland-r ... 57164.html

"Additional redacted documents delivered by Maryland to Yahoo Sports on Friday pertained to former Adidas executive Merl Code, who has been charged in the probe, and former prospective recruit Silvio De Sousa, who wound up playing last season at Kansas. The subpoena sought all documents and communication between Ranson and De Sousa.

In an April superseding indictment, a guardian of a Kansas recruit told Adidas they had received illicit payments in return for a commitment to steer the athlete to a university sponsored by a rival athletic apparel company. The guardian said the player favored Kansas and needed “another $20,000 payment” to “help get the student-athlete ‘out from under’ the deal.”

The indictment then alleged the player made a surprise commitment to Kansas on Aug. 30, 2017. News accounts on that date show Silvio De Sousa, a native of Angola who attended IMG Academy in Florida, committed to Kansas. Previously, De Sousa was considered a strong favorite to attend Maryland, which has an apparel contract with Under Armor."

BBQ wildcat wrote:
In an April superseding indictment, a guardian of a Kansas recruit told Adidas they had received illicit payments in return for a commitment to steer the athlete to a university sponsored by a rival athletic apparel company. The guardian said the player favored Kansas and needed “another $20,000 payment” to “help get the student-athlete ‘out from under’ the deal.”

This is how it has always worked guys. Arizona has never had to recruit against Adidas or UnderArmour schools for the top prospects, it just had to out recruit other Nike schools for such prospects. If it ultimately didn't land the player you know what happened.

BBQ wildcat wrote:Kansas -- You're up, too:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/maryland-r ... 57164.html

"Additional redacted documents delivered by Maryland to Yahoo Sports on Friday pertained to former Adidas executive Merl Code, who has been charged in the probe, and former prospective recruit Silvio De Sousa, who wound up playing last season at Kansas. The subpoena sought all documents and communication between Ranson and De Sousa.

In an April superseding indictment, a guardian of a Kansas recruit told Adidas they had received illicit payments in return for a commitment to steer the athlete to a university sponsored by a rival athletic apparel company. The guardian said the player favored Kansas and needed “another $20,000 payment” to “help get the student-athlete ‘out from under’ the deal.”

The indictment then alleged the player made a surprise commitment to Kansas on Aug. 30, 2017. News accounts on that date show Silvio De Sousa, a native of Angola who attended IMG Academy in Florida, committed to Kansas. Previously, De Sousa was considered a strong favorite to attend Maryland, which has an apparel contract with Under Armor."

Kansas has been up for a while. No one really seems to care on that, though. Between Josh Jackson and DeSousa, Kansas is who we thought they were. RIP Denny Green.

How long until Dukie V comes out raging against CSM?

ChooChooCat wrote:

BBQ wildcat wrote:
In an April superseding indictment, a guardian of a Kansas recruit told Adidas they had received illicit payments in return for a commitment to steer the athlete to a university sponsored by a rival athletic apparel company. The guardian said the player favored Kansas and needed “another $20,000 payment” to “help get the student-athlete ‘out from under’ the deal.”

This is how it has always worked guys. Arizona has never had to recruit against Adidas or UnderArmour schools for the top prospects, it just had to out recruit other Nike schools for such prospects. If it ultimately didn't land the player you know what happened.

That is a poorly worded article. It makes it sound as if De Sousa's guardian made that statement first hand. Yet these are the allegations of a third party. De Sousa's guardian denies the allegation.

Does that sound at all familiar to you?

Gfy dookie

Irish27 wrote:

Idiot. He was on record saying we should be sanctioned and Sean Miller should lose his job and career. Now a half assed apology buried in excusing Maryland being implicated?

Retire.

Edit: also, suck it Bilas for not rushing to judgment here. Wasn't so cautious with Miller.

If there ever is game day at mckale again, it will be vicious.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Irish27 wrote:

Idiot. He was on record saying we should be sanctioned and Sean Miller should lose his job and career. Now a half assed apology buried in excusing Maryland being implicated?

Retire.

He also more recently used Romeo Langford’s commitment to Archie at Indiana to bring up Sean, the FBI, etc in a negative light.

I hope a hemorrhoid eats his asshole and he’s forced to poop in a bag the rest of his miserable life.

OMG Chi, that picture of Bilas had me ROFLMAO. Epic and so true

Well, more KU news.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2 ... obe-adidas" target="_blank

I wonder how long until Yahoo reports that the UA has also received subpoenas? Because I would expect it. Of course, just the fact that suboenas were served does not mean that there was any wrongdoing. Except for Kansas. With Kansas, there was lots of wrongdoing.

BBQ wildcat wrote:I wonder how long until Yahoo reports that the UA has also received subpoenas? Because I would expect it. Of course, just the fact that suboenas were served does not mean that there was any wrongdoing. Except for Kansas. With Kansas, there was lots of wrongdoing.

On Adidas? I'd figure we are pretty far back in line.

Miami has been skating for a while despite being up to their eyeballs. The fact that the FBI is mainly Adidas and UA at this point helps us.

I would think that a subpoena would only be necessary if the institution was deemed to be not cooperating. If UofA is fully cooperating, why would they need to issue a subpoena?

RichardCranium wrote:I would think that a subpoena would only be necessary if the institution was deemed to be not cooperating. If UofA is fully cooperating, why would they need to issue a subpoena?

Document production. Subpoena is a standard method for document production in potential criminal cases. Schools can be in trouble for release of records without proper process, so they probably want proper process to cover their butts.

Looks like some good changes overall

Not sure about the last one.

Any scrub sitting on the end of the bench can declare for the draft then get free tuition and books for the rest of his academic career and no longer have to be on the team?

Merkin wrote:Not sure about the last one.

Any scrub sitting on the end of the bench can declare for the draft then get free tuition and books for the rest of his academic career and no longer have to be on the team?

This one? If so, im reading it different.

Degree completion assistance

Division I schools will be required to pay for tuition, fees and books for basketball players who leave school and return later to the same school to earn their degree. Former student-athletes will be eligible for financial assistance to complete their first degree if they were on scholarship and fewer than 10 years have passed since they left school. Additionally, students must have been in school for two years before leaving. Former student-athletes also must meet all the school’s admissions and financial aid requirements and must have exhausted all other funding options to be eligible, as well as meet all NCAA academic requirements.

So they have to be on the team for 2 years, so let's say Alex Barcello. He decides he doesn't like sitting on the bench and just wants to enjoy college life, so declares for the draft.

Doesn't get drafted of course, so the UA has to give up free tuition and books for his last 2+ years and he contributes nothing towards the team?

Just trying to get clarification.

Who determines who the "elite" players are that get agents?

Sure hope the agents have a no contact rule with coaching staff.

I used to coach biddy basketball, and the "my son needs to play more!" complaints from parents was tiring.

ASUHATER! wrote:Who determines who the "elite" players are that get agents?

Until I hear otherwise I'm going to assume players that have received an offer.

ASUHATER! wrote:Who determines who the "elite" players are that get agents?

It will self regulate. An agent isn't trying to assist a player who is not of a caliber that he helps the agent.

If a player is good enough that an agent wants to advise him, the rest takes care of itself.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:Who determines who the "elite" players are that get agents?

It will self regulate. An agent isn't trying to assist a player who is not of a caliber that he helps the agent.

If a player is good enough that an agent wants to advise him, the rest takes care of itself.

I think you're missing the part of this new rule from the NCAA that says that who is determined to be elite is allowed an agent and nobody else. It is worded in a way to say that there will be some person or group or body that determines who is or isn't elite.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/flexibility-g ... ing-degree" target="_blank

Agent representation for high school students
Pending a decision by the NBA and the National Basketball Players Association, high school basketball players can be represented by an agent beginning July 1 before their senior year in high school, provided they have been identified as an elite senior prospect by USA Basketball.

The effective date will be decided if/when the NBA and the NBPA permit high school students to enter the draft.

ASUHATER! wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:Who determines who the "elite" players are that get agents?

It will self regulate. An agent isn't trying to assist a player who is not of a caliber that he helps the agent.

If a player is good enough that an agent wants to advise him, the rest takes care of itself.

I think you're missing the part of this new rule from the NCAA that says that who is determined to be elite is allowed an agent and nobody else. It is worded in a way to say that there will be some person or group or body that determines who is or isn't elite.

USA basketball will determine.

Merkin wrote:So they have to be on the team for 2 years, so let's say Alex Barcello. He decides he doesn't like sitting on the bench and just wants to enjoy college life, so declares for the draft.

Doesn't get drafted of course, so the UA has to give up free tuition and books for his last 2+ years and he contributes nothing towards the team?

Just trying to get clarification.

My question would be, how much would the AD be willing to pay to free up that scholarship without any bad press on the recruiting trail? Since we are Arizona, I would assume quite a bit, even as an in-state student (which they all basically would be, right?).

Now at Kent St., they probably aren't paying shit to free up that scholarship. But the kid likely isn't transferring anyway and is going to eat that scholarship regardless.

Just how I view it. Certainly could be wrong.

The rules on returning to school only go into effect after the NBA makes a change to its rules, making those players ineligible until the following college basketball season has ended. The NBA is not going to make that rule change anytime soon, if at all, so the returning to school thing is really pointless anyways.

USA Basketball hasn't had any conversations with the NCAA, so if the NCAA expects USAB to handle the agent/athlete stuff, then they're going to be waiting a long time.

Nothing the NCAA did yesterday matters, because it all relies on the NBA and USAB, neither of which were involved in these new rules. This is the NCAA trying to look good but falling on its face again.

This guy's obsession with the UofA is not normal.
https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum ... 0/page-121" target="_blank

Russ Smith

If I'm reading the CBS story on the rule changes correctly, it sounds like Arizona, USC et al could be on a much more rapid road to any punishment from the FBI story. The key passage from the story IMO is this.
"This will be implemented immediately by the NCAA with the schools currently caught up in the Department of Justice's case regarding multiple schools -- and alleged violations of multiple federal laws."
It comes from a paragraph where it says under new rules the NCAA will now allow themselves to use information from outside agencies and investigations, previously they couldn't. And it clearly implies that means right now they can use any information they have from the FBI, to suspend players and or punish schools.
IT has interesting repercussions, for Arizona it's probably good, if you're going to get hit you'd rather take the hit this year while you're down, than next year or the year after when you have better talent coming in(Mannion and Green potentially). For USC it has a similar impact they could be pretty good this year but with their hiring of the Mobleys dad their recruiting classes going forward look much better, if they're going to get hit, better for them to take it now.

I was going to mention that too, my guess is Little won't be because he's not at the school that the FBI story involved(Arizona), and because it's on record that the AAU guy admitted he never gave the money to Little or his family, he kept it for himself. Quinerly is not at Arizona either but near as we can tell, both he and his mom did in fact take money so they would probably at the very least have to pay it back and be suspended. The NCAA has this bizarre rule that allows kids to pay it back over 4 years, and they can even use scholarship money to pay it back. I remember Josh Selby did that. Just seems bizarre to me to suspend a kid for taking money and then allow him to use scholarship money to pay it back. And of course once they leave the school what leverage does the NCAA have? If Quinerly goes pro after 1 year how could the NCAA possibly require him to pay back any monies still owed, they'd have no jurisdiction.

The whole thing is still pretty unclear but the CBS story very clearly said the NCAA is now allowed to use any information they get from someone else, and use it immediately. I had heard rumor UA expects both Randolph and Akot to have small suspensions and I guess maybe this explains that rumor, maybe Arizona knew this rule was coming and that the NCAA would then know the identity of the 3 players from last year in the story, rumored to be Alkins, Randolph and Akot, and suspend the 2 still there.

Irish27 wrote:This guy's obsession with the UofA is not normal.
https://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum ... 0/page-121" target="_blank

Russ Smith

If I'm reading the CBS story on the rule changes correctly, it sounds like Arizona, USC et al could be on a much more rapid road to any punishment from the FBI story. The key passage from the story IMO is this.
"This will be implemented immediately by the NCAA with the schools currently caught up in the Department of Justice's case regarding multiple schools -- and alleged violations of multiple federal laws."
It comes from a paragraph where it says under new rules the NCAA will now allow themselves to use information from outside agencies and investigations, previously they couldn't. And it clearly implies that means right now they can use any information they have from the FBI, to suspend players and or punish schools.
IT has interesting repercussions, for Arizona it's probably good, if you're going to get hit you'd rather take the hit this year while you're down, than next year or the year after when you have better talent coming in(Mannion and Green potentially). For USC it has a similar impact they could be pretty good this year but with their hiring of the Mobleys dad their recruiting classes going forward look much better, if they're going to get hit, better for them to take it now.

I was going to mention that too, my guess is Little won't be because he's not at the school that the FBI story involved(Arizona), and because it's on record that the AAU guy admitted he never gave the money to Little or his family, he kept it for himself. Quinerly is not at Arizona either but near as we can tell, both he and his mom did in fact take money so they would probably at the very least have to pay it back and be suspended. The NCAA has this bizarre rule that allows kids to pay it back over 4 years, and they can even use scholarship money to pay it back. I remember Josh Selby did that. Just seems bizarre to me to suspend a kid for taking money and then allow him to use scholarship money to pay it back. And of course once they leave the school what leverage does the NCAA have? If Quinerly goes pro after 1 year how could the NCAA possibly require him to pay back any monies still owed, they'd have no jurisdiction.

The whole thing is still pretty unclear but the CBS story very clearly said the NCAA is now allowed to use any information they get from someone else, and use it immediately. I had heard rumor UA expects both Randolph and Akot to have small suspensions and I guess maybe this explains that rumor, maybe Arizona knew this rule was coming and that the NCAA would then know the identity of the 3 players from last year in the story, rumored to be Alkins, Randolph and Akot, and suspend the 2 still there.

The Star is out with a story which basically says the same thing. The NCAA will be allowed to use the FBI findings......punishment is likely to be meted out sooner rather than later.

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildca ... d60.html#1" target="_blank

If the NCAA uses the FBI investigation, I'd be ok with that.

I'm not really concerned about Quinerly or Little. The glaring issue is both are currently clear to play. If the NCAA tried to discipline us over either one of them, I'd go straight to pointing out that if either did something against the rules, they shouldn't be playing.

We're not implicated in Bowen. There's one unsourced statement about payments to an unidentified player from last year's roster and that's it.

That leaves Book. What rule did he really break, NCAA wise? Maybe just unspecified sleaze, but the only players he was accused of giving money to kept their eligibility. He solicited cash for himself, and maybe we get some penalty for that, but it's hard to imagine a ton, and that's never been linked to Miller.

Russ Smith is a tool. He adjusts his belief system on what is bad about Arizona based on the most recent article he read and never has actual evidence, just beliefs.

Whatever Russ Smith is conjecturing, I'm inclined to turn 180 degrees the opposite way and that will likely be the outcome.

He and Basnight share the same underwear.

Russ Smith is a neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie.

97cats wrote:Russ Smith is a neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie.

Nothing like a Friday afternoon 97cats cameo!

Bear down!

97cats wrote:Russ Smith is a neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie.

When you got into it with him on that AZ sports fans forum, I registered to weigh in on how large a difference in credibility and intellect the two of you have.

That was the night the Miller/Ayton/100k story broke, so I never actually posted. Now, I get auto emails from those buttholes twice a week. So, Russ Smith cursed me that way too.