Bear Down Wildcats

It’s no consolation that Trier will somehow be inspired by this. He simply got screwed. No silver lining.

azgreg wrote:Seems a bit vain no?

Will Sonnet says, "It ain't bragging if it's true."

Longhorned wrote:It’s no consolation that Trier will somehow be inspired by this. He simply got screwed. No silver lining.

Fully agree. I know some fans are licking their chops like "this will fuel him" but the dude fuels himself, has all season. All this means is that Trier isn't getting what he earned, and neither is Arizona.

They can act like he doesn't exist but Trier was one of the most efficient high usage players in the country.

National awards have become a popularity contest. If we forget the stats, is it that big of a surprise he was left off? I say no. I think it hurts him that he is on a team with Ayton. Ayton grabs all the headlines and is who the media focuses on. That hurts come awards time IMO. Also, we are on the west coast so headlines are all that matter because no one watches the games.

Trier is also being punished because this team has disappointed. Pre-season #2 with first place votes to a 3 or 4 seed in March.

Some big Trier news:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/world/ ... 731677.php" target="_blank

Beachcat97 wrote:Some big Trier news:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/world/ ... 731677.php" target="_blank

whenever I search "Trier" on Twitter

DrWildcat wrote:National awards have become a popularity contest. If we forget the stats, is it that big of a surprise he was left off? I say no. I think it hurts him that he is on a team with Ayton. Ayton grabs all the headlines and is who the media focuses on. That hurts come awards time IMO. Also, we are on the west coast so headlines are all that matter because no one watches the games.

Rebuttal to "hurts him that he's on the team with Ayton"... Grayson Allen is getting national awards over Trier. Now I suppose Allen is a household name but he's also got a checkered past (for habitual ON COURT bad acts) and he plays next to a NPOY candidate.

Trier was on all the pre-finalist lists... and then dropped entirely from all of them. Have to assume it's for the PED mini-scandal and wonder if voting took place while he was still being held out.

YoDeFoe wrote:

DrWildcat wrote:National awards have become a popularity contest. If we forget the stats, is it that big of a surprise he was left off? I say no. I think it hurts him that he is on a team with Ayton. Ayton grabs all the headlines and is who the media focuses on. That hurts come awards time IMO. Also, we are on the west coast so headlines are all that matter because no one watches the games.

Rebuttal to "hurts him that he's on the team with Ayton"... Grayson Allen is getting national awards over Trier. Now I suppose Allen is a household name but he's also got a checkered past (for habitual ON COURT bad acts) and he plays next to a NPOY candidate.

Trier was on all the pre-finalist lists... and then dropped entirely from all of them. Have to assume it's for the PED mini-scandal and wonder if voting took place while he was still being held out.

Yeah, but Allen plays for Duke, so that tripping stuff gets brushed under the rug.

Edit: ESPN's interview of Allen post UNC/Duke was vomit inducing. It was about him capping a career with ups and downs. They sort of skated on how the downs were all self inflicted incidents where he leg whipped other players.

I get that I'm just salty at ESPN for their treatment of us, but I was pissed watching them rail us and then excuse Grayson's BS.

TatetheGreat wrote:Trier is also being punished because this team has disappointed. Pre-season #2 with first place votes to a 3 or 4 seed in March.

Lightly under-performed. Not without reason (Rawle was out for three of our seven losses and Trier was out for a fourth).

Duke again is a fair counter argument. They may be a top ten team currently, but they're only one loss better than Arizona in record and they lost their conference by four games.

Maybe it's as simple as "Duke popular, Arizona not."

YoDeFoe wrote:Lightly under-performed. Not without reason (Rawle was out for three of our seven losses and Trier was out for a fourth).

Ehhh. I mean, the Bahamas happened, we stumbled at home to a bad UCLA team, and lost 3 of 9 on the road in a pretty pedestrian conference.

I agree that we got better virtually every month, which is a testament to Miller, given the distractions. But we were seen as a preseason 1 or 2. Randolph was the best player in Europe, blah, blah. Randolph and Akot would easily fill in for Rawle, and so on. And we fell out of the poll.

I would say this team has massively underperformed from pre-season expectations and has maddeningly underperformed all season in never putting a full game together, and showing flashes of D without committing to 40, or even 30 minutes of D.

Trier has not been one of the issues, though. At all. I know we all love Deandre, and he has been dominant, but he has not done a consistent job of showing for the ball. Defending, I will give him as a kid with 5 years moving up a level, and he has improved. But first half Oregon should be him all the time. He should want to tear the rim down on every possession, but he still gets too many of his points on put backs and broken plays. A lot of people blame the rest of the team for "not getting (Deandre) the ball", but he doesn't show on the block strong near enough. Even against a zone, he can pin someone. And he has been great...not good, great. But he could be better.

And the bench has been woeful at times.

Trier is right - he ought to be the favorite to win that award for best SG in the NCAA.

YoDeFoe wrote:Trier is right - he ought to be the favorite to win that award for best SG in the NCAA.

Do you or anyone have The finalist's #s compared to Trier's?

Just trying to see if there is ANY metric that could justify his not being on that list.

Yeah let's do this

Pts / Rebs / Asts / (Stls + Blks) / TS% / ORtg / PER / SOS

18.5 / 3.9 / 3.0 / 1.4 / 60.3% / 120.5 / 25.9 / 8.71

25.9 / 4.7 / 3.8 / 1.9 / 58.0% / 112.8 / 23.8 / -3.73

15.7 / 3.4 / 4.5 / 1.8 / 58.9% / 124.0 / 19.3 / 9.65

20.3 / 3.9 / 2.7 / 1.1 / 60.0% / 113.0 / 22.9 / 8.15

20.9 / 3.7 / 3.4 / 1.0 / 61.4% / 117.9 / 21.8 / 7.39

and Trier...

19.0 / 3.1 / 3.3 / 1.1 / 68.0% / 132.2 / 24.4/ 6.90

YoDeFoe wrote:Yeah let's do this

Pts / Rebs / Asts / (Stls + Blks) / TS% / ORtg / PER / SOS

18.5 / 3.9 / 3.0 / 1.4 / 60.3% / 120.5 / 25.9 / 8.71

25.9 / 4.7 / 3.8 / 1.9 / 58.0% / 112.8 / 23.8 / -3.73

15.7 / 3.4 / 4.5 / 1.8 / 58.9% / 124.0 / 19.3 / 9.65

20.3 / 3.9 / 2.7 / 1.1 / 60.0% / 113.0 / 22.9 / 8.15

20.9 / 3.7 / 3.4 / 1.0 / 61.4% / 117.9 / 21.8 / 7.39

and Trier...

19.0 / 3.1 / 3.3 / 1.1 / 68.0% / 132.2 / 24.4/ 6.90

So basically the old school people who don't know/care about advanced metrics...

YoDeFoe wrote:Yeah let's do this

Pts / Rebs / Asts / (Stls + Blks) / TS% / ORtg / PER / SOS

18.5 / 3.9 / 3.0 / 1.4 / 60.3% / 120.5 / 25.9 / 8.71

25.9 / 4.7 / 3.8 / 1.9 / 58.0% / 112.8 / 23.8 / -3.73

15.7 / 3.4 / 4.5 / 1.8 / 58.9% / 124.0 / 19.3 / 9.65

20.3 / 3.9 / 2.7 / 1.1 / 60.0% / 113.0 / 22.9 / 8.15

20.9 / 3.7 / 3.4 / 1.0 / 61.4% / 117.9 / 21.8 / 7.39

and Trier...

19.0 / 3.1 / 3.3 / 1.1 / 68.0% / 132.2 / 24.4/ 6.90

When you put it like that, it's so obvious Grayson Allen shouldn't be on that list.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
When you put it like that, it's so obvious Grayson Allen shouldn't be on that list.

SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

Yeah I'm not gonna get over this.

My hope is that Trier balls out and makes this as glaringly obvious as possible. Like, it should be a meme.

"That guy isn't getting his due!"

"Oh like Allonzo Trier back in 2018?"

"LOL just like that!"

prh wrote: So basically the old school people who don't know/care about advanced metrics...

If people aren't aware of "shooting percentage" then I don't know what to do.

Trier is having a historically efficient shooting season and no one seems to know about it.

So looking over the numbers... let's do a little process of elimination.

Toss Grayson Allen for being no where close on scoring.

Toss Kendrick Nunn for beating his girlfriend... oh and playing in a dogshit conference and being a chucker.

...and we're down to Edwards, Foster and Robinson (and Trier).

All within a point or two of scoring average... All with about three or four assists and three or four rebounds a game. Ok so what sets them apart? Efficiency, for sure.

Foster and Robinson are using four additional shots a game to get one or two more points than Trier. Edwards is using two more shots a game to get LESS points than Trier.

I mean... 67% true shooting is honestly absurd from a guard. It shouldn't be possible, it's certainly not fair to the competition. But thems the facts.

Trier is scoring 19 points a game on only 11 FGAs and that should make everyone stop and say "WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK."

YoDeFoe wrote:

prh wrote: So basically the old school people who don't know/care about advanced metrics...

If people aren't aware of "shooting percentage" then I don't know what to do.

Trier is having a historically efficient shooting season and no one seems to know about it.

Is that True Shooting percentage?

I mean, I agree with you, he should be the front runner, and being left off the finalist list is atrocious. Maybe more so than when Kadeem Carey was left off the Doak Walker finalist list when he led the country in rushing.

prh wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

prh wrote: So basically the old school people who don't know/care about advanced metrics...

If people aren't aware of "shooting percentage" then I don't know what to do.

Trier is having a historically efficient shooting season and no one seems to know about it.

Is that True Shooting percentage?

I mean, I agree with you, he should be the front runner, and being left off the finalist list is atrocious. Maybe more so than when Kadeem Carey was left off the Doak Walker finalist list when he led the country in rushing.

Yeah, True Shooting %... it's definitely an advanced stat but also... he's the only guy shooting better than 50 / 40 / 85 so it doesn't take advanced stat knowledge to see what he's doing.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
When you put it like that, it's so obvious Grayson Allen shouldn't be on that list.

SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

I could stomach the others, but Allen just sticks out like a sore thumb. He has a name, plays for Duke, but the play does not put him on that list.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
When you put it like that, it's so obvious Grayson Allen shouldn't be on that list.

SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

I could stomach the others, but Allen just sticks out like a sore thumb. He has a name, plays for Duke, but the play does not put him on that list.

Plus he's a twatpickle.

azgreg wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
When you put it like that, it's so obvious Grayson Allen shouldn't be on that list.

SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

I could stomach the others, but Allen just sticks out like a sore thumb. He has a name, plays for Duke, but the play does not put him on that list.

Plus he's a twatpickle.

Which is actually a useful thing in defense of including Trier. Are voters excluding him bc of some alleged off court action?

Well Grayson Allen has ON COURT issues and Kendrick Nunn has a criminal record for hitting a woman. Are we really going to sideline Trier for a PED case that he already was punished for last year?

YoDeFoe wrote:

azgreg wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
When you put it like that, it's so obvious Grayson Allen shouldn't be on that list.

SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

I could stomach the others, but Allen just sticks out like a sore thumb. He has a name, plays for Duke, but the play does not put him on that list.

Plus he's a twatpickle.

Which is actually a useful thing in defense of including Trier. Are voters excluding him bc of some alleged off court action?

Well Grayson Allen has ON COURT issues and Kendrick Nunn has a criminal record for hitting a woman. Are we really going to sideline Trier for a PED case that he already was punished for last year?

There is no explanation for Trier's omissions from the Jerry West finalists or 2nd or 3rd team All American lists, other than it was an intentional snub for a particular reason.

I bought a Synergy subscription just to be sure I'm not missing something in the data.

AMA

Look at this shit.

Trier on offense...


Trier on defense...

You dropped 6500 just to confirm how good Trier is?

How'd you get access? They don't allow access to even a lot of media people the one time I looked into it, and they stopped selling a fan package years ago.

NYCat wrote:You dropped 6500 just to confirm how good Trier is?

Yes

JK fan access is $20/m.

NYCat wrote:You dropped 6500 just to confirm how good Trier is?

I think I know who to start sucking up to when I'm old and destitute.

YoDeFoe wrote:JK fan access is $20/m.

Well damn they announced 4-5 years ago they were getting rid of the consumer product. I guess not. Since it's too late into the season, guess I'll subscribe when the Cats are good again. Years ago I tried buying a Synergy subscription, thank God they said no.

Have been using Kenpom subscription

Also

https://hoop-math.com" target="_blank

And

http://barttorvik.com" target="_blank

Obviously not as good

NYCat wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:JK fan access is $20/m.

Well damn they announced 4-5 years ago they were getting rid of the consumer product. I guess not. Since it's too late into the season, guess I'll subscribe when the Cats are good again. Years ago I tried buying a Synergy subscription, thank God they said no.

Have been using Kenpom subscription

Also

https://hoop-math.com" target="_blank

And

http://barttorvik.com" target="_blank

Obviously not as good

Once I found Hoop-Math I freaked the fuck out - great source of stats, and largely free. But scratching that itch only led me to wanting the full package (Synergy). I didn't know about barttorvik until this season and I'm super impressed. Them/kenpom + hoop-math + sportsreference SHOULD be good enough for the anyone who isn't a full blown stat freak.

what a douche

Nightmare game for Trier, and Arizona still survived.

Merkin wrote:

I'd say he's improved, if you lift the leg, the refs catch that and you get the trip right away, might have gotten away with the butt hutt if they hadn't looked at the replay.



Glad coach k is teaching him some valuable lessons.

Somewhere at the next level that guy is going to get his ass kicked something fierce.

We certainly didn't need any more video to prove what area Grayson is clearly better than Trier at.

What was up with Trier? Seriously? 2-13? I mean...

Allen is a finalist for the Jerry West award, though. I think in the fine print it says a Duke player must be considered.

Beachcat97 wrote:What was up with Trier? Seriously? 2-13? I mean...

Too many 3's tonight

84Cat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:What was up with Trier? Seriously? 2-13? I mean...

Too many 3's tonight

2 of 10 from there if i'm remembering correctly.

Dude seriously presses in the form of ballhogging at the worst possible times.

Rawle wasn't much better tonight under pressure, but seriously: Neither of our starting wings have exactly stepped up and shown leadership in the clutch this season.

And that's dangerous, especially if their petty little infighting gets personal and they stop feeding Ayton.

Trier will revert to the mean tomorrow night. I expect a great game.

catgrad97 wrote:Dude seriously presses in the form of ballhogging at the worst possible times.

Rawle wasn't much better tonight under pressure, but seriously: Neither of our starting wings have exactly stepped up and shown leadership in the clutch this season.

And that's dangerous, especially if their petty little infighting gets personal and they stop feeding Ayton.

Man, Trier has been clutch all year for us. Big shots, gets to the foul line in the clutch, makes his foul shot in the clutch. He may be the best closer in college basketball. And even in an off night, how many free throws does he get his teammates when the fouls he picks up helps push us in the bonus and double bonus that much quicker. Teams have to know where Trier is at all times too, just like an Ayton. Thats a constant stress on a defense.

rgdeuce wrote:Man, Trier has been clutch all year for us. Big shots, gets to the foul line in the clutch, makes his foul shot in the clutch. He may be the best closer in college basketball. And even in an off night, how many free throws does he get his teammates when the fouls he picks up helps push us in the bonus and double bonus that much quicker. Teams have to know where Trier is at all times too, just like an Ayton. Thats a constant stress on a defense.

I don't disagree. But jeez, when he's cold, it's bad. Two straight airballs? It's perplexing how a guy can be so hot and then so cold. I'm guessing it's in his head since he's physically healthy, right?

If you'd told me before the game that Trier would go 2-13, I'd say there's no way we win. Thank God Ayton had a career night.