Bear Down Wildcats

Beachcat97 wrote:If there were even a slim chance any of our current players were ineligible, would they be playing? That still leaves Rawle, whose injury has coincided with the scandal, but I gotta think everyone else (including Ayton and Randolph) is in the clear.

Ya business as usual until evidence is presented. All existing teams players are in the clear according to those court docs. They only named recruits entering college. Who knows whats been discovered in the past month though

You can't make the top 15-20 players from the past 2 seasons ineligible. That would destroy this season and next. Anyways, this should probably be in the Book thread...

Jefe wrote:Its not an "if" at this point, right?

I'm not sold there was anything direct. I would venture all top prospects on the AAU circuit have received something. How much is soft influence, originating from shoe company or other associates...well, that's the question.

Not only Ayton, but Porter, Bagley, Bamba, I would put money they have all been beneficiaries of something. How much is directed to them vs mom, real uncle, fake uncle etc. and whether it came from a school or a third party interested in ensuring the kid makes a good college decision, well, those are the questions.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Jefe wrote:Its not an "if" at this point, right?

If there were even a slim chance any of our current players were ineligible, would they be playing? That still leaves Rawle, whose injury has coincided with the scandal, but I gotta think everyone else (including Ayton and Randolph) is in the clear.

If we go off of past situations (like Trier last year), any players in question would not be playing. Miller has shown that if you aren't going to be eligible to play come opening night, you aren't going to burn up minutes and other opportunities during the exhibition portion of the schedule.

Statfreak77 wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

Jefe wrote:Its not an "if" at this point, right?

If there were even a slim chance any of our current players were ineligible, would they be playing? That still leaves Rawle, whose injury has coincided with the scandal, but I gotta think everyone else (including Ayton and Randolph) is in the clear.

If we go off of past situations (like Trier last year), any players in question would not be playing. Miller has shown that if you aren't going to be eligible to play come opening night, you aren't going to burn up minutes and other opportunities during the exhibition portion of the schedule.

It's even more than last year's situation with Trier, though. We're now in this post-scandal phase, so everything is being watched more closely, at least presumably. Given the black eye we took from the Book situation, you gotta think Miller and the university are treading very, very carefully at this point. There's no way they're gonna have someone on the floor who isn't cleared. We won't know what's up with Rawle until he's fully healthy, but I'm going to assume that every other player is fully eligible.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2742 ... xt-unicorn" target="_blank

Porzingis 2.0? The Next Giannis? NBA Scouts Predict the League's Next Unicorn
JONATHAN WASSERMAN

1. Bamba
2. Bagley
3. Ayton

"I'd take Bamba over Bagley, but there is one more out there I'd take hands down over either."

Within the unicorn family, DeAndre Ayton fits the mold of an Embiid or Karl-Anthony Towns—long, nimble centers with bodies built for the paint and inside-out skill sets to score in volume.

Listed at 7'1", 250 pounds with a 7'5 ½" wingspan, his measurements practically match up with DeAndre Jordan's from the 2008 combine (6'11", 250lbs, 7'6" wingspan). Jordan recorded a 30.5" max vertical and 7.5 percent body fat. According to Arizona coach Sean Miller, Ayton's body fat is near six percent and his vertical just hit 43 ½".

The eye test backs Miller's claims. Athletic, chiseled and long, Ayton looks like he was put together in some basketball lab.

The unicorn potential kicks in once his perimeter game fully develops. He has been shooting threes for some time now. You got the impression in high school he just became bored with dunking.

A quick, uncontestable release on his jumper is convincing, even if he doesn't shoot a high percentage right away. Like Towns and Embiid, he's become a threat to pick-and-pop behind the arc, spot up or rise and fire over his man from the elbows or short corners.

With quick spins in the post and the ability to separate into quality one-handed looks around the key, Ayton can score from all three levels, as well as control the glass and block shots.

Staying fully engaged at both ends will be his top priority, but if we're talking about talent and upside, few non-NBA players have more. Ayton is the closest to becoming the next great scoring center.

Jefe wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2742 ... xt-unicorn

Porzingis 2.0? The Next Giannis? NBA Scouts Predict the League's Next Unicorn
JONATHAN WASSERMAN

1. Bamba
2. Bagley
3. Ayton

"I'd take Bamba over Bagley, but there is one more out there I'd take hands down over either."

Within the unicorn family, DeAndre Ayton fits the mold of an Embiid or Karl-Anthony Towns—long, nimble centers with bodies built for the paint and inside-out skill sets to score in volume.

Listed at 7'1", 250 pounds with a 7'5 ½" wingspan, his measurements practically match up with DeAndre Jordan's from the 2008 combine (6'11", 250lbs, 7'6" wingspan). Jordan recorded a 30.5" max vertical and 7.5 percent body fat. According to Arizona coach Sean Miller, Ayton's body fat is near six percent and his vertical just hit 43 ½".

The eye test backs Miller's claims. Athletic, chiseled and long, Ayton looks like he was put together in some basketball lab.

The unicorn potential kicks in once his perimeter game fully develops. He has been shooting threes for some time now. You got the impression in high school he just became bored with dunking.

A quick, uncontestable release on his jumper is convincing, even if he doesn't shoot a high percentage right away. Like Towns and Embiid, he's become a threat to pick-and-pop behind the arc, spot up or rise and fire over his man from the elbows or short corners.

With quick spins in the post and the ability to separate into quality one-handed looks around the key, Ayton can score from all three levels, as well as control the glass and block shots.

Staying fully engaged at both ends will be his top priority, but if we're talking about talent and upside, few non-NBA players have more. Ayton is the closest to becoming the next great scoring center.

I like Bamba, but as a unicorn, he's sort of a one trick pony. He is an incredible shot blocker who absolutely changes things on D almost every play. Offensively, he is a work in progress and his only consistent scoring mechanism is the dunk.

Bagley has a freaky blend of mobility, size and skill, but he isn't as physically imposing as Ayton. Ayton has more skill than Bamba and is more physically dynamic than Bagley. I think the consistent drive and work ethic is the #1 thing for Ayton to flash this year.

It's a measure of how good the draft is that it's possible none of Bamba, Bagley and Ayton goes #1 too. The top of the class is loaded.

With Bamba its all about projection. His offensive game is definitely a work in progress, but you can see the potential with his shot.

Ayton just looks like a monster, already. High IQ, glides around the floor, even on defense, quick feet, athletic, flat jumper, but soft touch, post moves, and the most surprising trait (to me); passing. Dude hits guys on the numbers, even out of doubles. Has good vision with and without the ball. Knows where and when to cut, when and when not to help at the rim.

Haven't watched Porter or Bagley, but if they're better than Ayton, they'd better be sure-fire NBA all stars.

TucsonClip wrote:With Bamba its all about projection. His offensive game is definitely a work in progress, but you can see the potential with his shot.

Ayton just looks like a monster, already. High IQ, glides around the floor, even on defense, quick feet, athletic, flat jumper, but soft touch, post moves, and the most surprising trait (to me); passing. Dude hits guys on the numbers, even out of doubles. Has good vision with and without the ball. Knows where and when to cut, when and when not to help at the rim.

I don't disagree, I just worry with Bamba you may end up with a rich man's Gorgui Dieng. His J is probably the most promising aspect of his offense. In the games I've seen, he has trouble posting or getting to the rim off the faceup because he's so skinny. It's really easy for opponents to bump him off the spot he wants to get to.

Maybe he grows into it, but he doesn't have the big, thick frame like Ayton and I don't think he ever will. Ayton just doesn't have those limits. He's too large to get moved around, then fast and strong enough to get the ball and finish. He also has a great touch around the rim, and I don't think Bamba matches him there. Bamba has a decent touch, not great.

I think the only argument you can make is the old motor argument. Bamba has never had that questioned, and we know the conventional wisdom on Ayton. If they are equal in that area, barring injury, I don't see how Ayton is not better than Bamba at the end of the day. Ayton is just stronger and more fluid in every aspect.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

TucsonClip wrote:With Bamba its all about projection. His offensive game is definitely a work in progress, but you can see the potential with his shot.

Ayton just looks like a monster, already. High IQ, glides around the floor, even on defense, quick feet, athletic, flat jumper, but soft touch, post moves, and the most surprising trait (to me); passing. Dude hits guys on the numbers, even out of doubles. Has good vision with and without the ball. Knows where and when to cut, when and when not to help at the rim.

I don't disagree, I just worry with Bamba you may end up with a rich man's Gorgui Dieng. His J is probably the most promising aspect of his offense. In the games I've seen, he has trouble posting or getting to the rim off the faceup because he's so skinny. It's really easy for opponents to bump him off the spot he wants to get to.

Maybe he grows into it, but he doesn't have the big, thick frame like Ayton and I don't think he ever will. Ayton just doesn't have those limits. He's too large to get moved around, then fast and strong enough to get the ball and finish. He also has a great touch around the rim, and I don't think Bamba matches him there. Bamba has a decent touch, not great.

I think the only argument you can make is the old motor argument. Bamba has never had that questioned, and we know the conventional wisdom on Ayton. If they are equal in that area, barring injury, I don't see how Ayton is not better than Bamba at the end of the day. Ayton is just stronger and more fluid in every aspect.

Agreed. Bamba need 40lbs of muscle. That’s... a lot. I LOVE his character and intangibles - he could be the first seven foot NBA coach. But that and the muscle are down the line. For now he’s got work to do.

Beachcat97 wrote:Haven't watched Porter or Bagley, but if they're better than Ayton, they'd better be sure-fire NBA all stars.

You haven’t watched his Duke highlights yet?? Oh man it feeds every negative preconception you’d have about him.

Forces his offense? Check.

Demands the ball at all times even when it’s blindingly obvious that he’s not the best positioned option? Check.

Floats on the perimeter and doesn’t do the fundamentals? Check.

I watch it twice a week just to keep my spirits high.

https://youtu.be/INX_7NzznCM" target="_blank (The beginning omfg)

https://youtu.be/Uto8TBoywZo" target="_blank (2min - 3min section is CHOICE)

I’m exceedingly conveinced that Ayton is an Embiid / Simmons / KD / KAT prospect and everyone else is a cut below.

Then again I pick Arizona to win the tournament nearly every year.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Haven't watched Porter or Bagley, but if they're better than Ayton, they'd better be sure-fire NBA all stars.

You haven’t watched his Duke highlights yet?? Oh man it feeds every negative preconception you’d have about him.

Forces his offense? Check.

Demands the ball at all times even when it’s blindingly obvious that he’s not the best positioned option? Check.

Floats on the perimeter and doesn’t do the fundamentals? Check.

I watch it twice a week just to keep my spirits high.

https://youtu.be/INX_7NzznCM" target="_blank (The beginning omfg)

https://youtu.be/Uto8TBoywZo" target="_blank (2min - 3min section is CHOICE)

These videos gave me some much needed smiles.

They get shoes.

If it is a size 94 shoe and has wheels and a 2.8l turbo engine and a convertible tongu...er, top, does it count as a benefit?

YoDeFoe wrote:https://youtu.be/INX_7NzznCM (The beginning omfg)
https://youtu.be/Uto8TBoywZo" target="_blank (2min - 3min section is CHOICE)

I had to stop watching the first vid. He is so unpolished its pathetic that anyone would have Bagley over Ayton. Not even close to combine ready

Cant believe I just watched 2 Duke highlight videos

Jefe wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:https://youtu.be/INX_7NzznCM (The beginning omfg)
https://youtu.be/Uto8TBoywZo" target="_blank (2min - 3min section is CHOICE)

I had to stop watching the first vid. He is so unpolished its pathetic that anyone would have Bagley over Ayton. Not even close to combine ready

Cant believe I just watched 2 Duke highlight videos

This video of Ayton vs Chico is the essential follow up: https://youtu.be/7_Yd7SlVGas" target="_blank

Now, to be fair, Bagley should be pretty impactful by March. It would be surprising if he isn't. Porter is the more polished of the two, obviously.

But guys with Ayton's size and ability simply don't come along very often. I completely agree with those who've said that if Ayton were at Duke or UK he'd be the undisputed projected #1 pick.

He had a tough game tonight. The J wasn't going down. 19 and 12.

Bagley did the same shit again tonight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoQKttYTPMU" target="_blank

UAEebs86 wrote:

That's admirable.

Admirable.

Pfft ... is this mic on?

Beachcat97 wrote:Now, to be fair, Bagley should be pretty impactful by March. It would be surprising if he isn't. Porter is the more polished of the two, obviously.

But guys with Ayton's size and ability simply don't come along very often. I completely agree with those who've said that if Ayton were at Duke or UK he'd be the undisputed projected #1 pick.

He's impactful now. To be fair. 12/18, 25 points, 10 rebounds.

They can both be good. And they are.

gumby wrote:

UAEebs86 wrote:

That's admirable.

Admirable.

Pfft ... is this mic on?

Hold on, looking for the app that throws virtual rotten vegetables.

Jefe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:If there were even a slim chance any of our current players were ineligible, would they be playing? That still leaves Rawle, whose injury has coincided with the scandal, but I gotta think everyone else (including Ayton and Randolph) is in the clear.

Ya business as usual until evidence is presented. All existing teams players are in the clear according to those court docs. They only named recruits entering college. Who knows whats been discovered in the past month though

You can't make the top 15-20 players from the past 2 seasons ineligible. That would destroy this season and next. Anyways, this should probably be in the Book thread...

It isn't odd to you that everyone had him 100% to KU, then he picked Arizona out of the blue?

enfuego wrote:

Jefe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:If there were even a slim chance any of our current players were ineligible, would they be playing? That still leaves Rawle, whose injury has coincided with the scandal, but I gotta think everyone else (including Ayton and Randolph) is in the clear.

Ya business as usual until evidence is presented. All existing teams players are in the clear according to those court docs. They only named recruits entering college. Who knows whats been discovered in the past month though

You can't make the top 15-20 players from the past 2 seasons ineligible. That would destroy this season and next. Anyways, this should probably be in the Book thread...

It isn't odd to you that everyone had him 100% to KU, then he picked Arizona out of the blue?

Yes, the Josh Jackson recruitment was strange.

Chicat wrote:

gumby wrote:

UAEebs86 wrote:

That's admirable.

Admirable.

Pfft ... is this mic on?

Hold on, looking for the app that throws virtual rotten vegetables.

Try the veal!

He seemed a little off today, imho. Not as sharp, not as quick down the floor. Just me?

psiclist23 wrote:He seemed a little off today, imho. Not as sharp, not as quick down the floor. Just me?

I sorta saw what you're saying. I was way up in section 126 though. Still the most freakish set of DNA I've seen in McKale the last 15 years I've paid attention.

Total game-changer, this guy. If our team defense improves and Rawle is back in December, we're going to put a hurting on the Pac the likes of which we haven't seen for a while.

psiclist23 wrote:He seemed a little off today, imho. Not as sharp, not as quick down the floor. Just me?

I think he peeked at the NAU game

Have we ever had a big like this before? I certainly can't remember one in my time following the team since the mid 90s.

splitsecond wrote:Have we ever had a big like this before? I certainly can't remember one in my time following the team since the mid 90s.

No. There's like less than ten of these guys in existence. 7' with much longer wingspan with shooting out to the three point line? That's a very short list.

splitsecond wrote:Have we ever had a big like this before? I certainly can't remember one in my time following the team since the mid 90s.

If he stops calling for the ball and disappears into the defense for the final several minutes of a tight tourney game, yes.

splitsecond wrote:Have we ever had a big like this before? I certainly can't remember one in my time following the team since the mid 90s.

No. Ayton is less than a god, but more than a man.

YoDeFoe wrote:

splitsecond wrote:Have we ever had a big like this before? I certainly can't remember one in my time following the team since the mid 90s.

No. There's like less than ten of these guys in existence. 7' with much longer wingspan with shooting out to the three point line? That's a very short list.

I'm not sure there's ever been one who has Ayton's package (that's what she said):

--Olajuwon--Shorter, but a good skill comparison. Maybe a bit better footwork wise.
--Robinson--Skinnier at that age. Good comparison otherwise.
--Ewing--Not as fluid an athlete or as a leaper. Decent J and comparable size wise.
--Kareem--Skinnier and not a jump shooter. Kareem/Alcindor was a much better postup option.

That said, all those guys are legit comparisons in terms of physical and skill development at Ayton's age. There are not many guys in the entirety of basketball history who can match Ayton.

Every source is claiming 2 blocks. I counted 4 if not 5 for him last night and I was row 10.

psiclist23 wrote: He seemed a little off today, imho.

ahhhhhhh

psiclist23 wrote:Not as sharp,

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

psiclist23 wrote:not as quick down the floor.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

psiclist23 wrote:Just me?

ya

Jefe wrote:Every source is claiming 2 blocks. I counted 4 if not 5 for him last night and I was row 10.

Even in his highlights, you can see more than 2.

https://youtu.be/QMn52maTVV8" target="_blank

97cats wrote:

psiclist23 wrote: He seemed a little off today, imho.

ahhhhhhh

psiclist23 wrote:Not as sharp,

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

psiclist23 wrote:not as quick down the floor.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

psiclist23 wrote:Just me?

ya

Well, in my own defense, since Sling switched to Chrome instead of the app, the picture is crap, with constant buffering. So yeah, it's me.

psiclist23 wrote:
Well, in my own defense, since Sling switched to Chrome instead of the app, the picture is crap, with constant buffering. So yeah, it's me.

shit thats funny -- just know this, he sprinted end to end multiple times and beat everyone down the floor, saved balls bouncing out of bounds off a one footed jump and under hand save/pass, hit four 15/17ft jumpers and blocked what i thought was at least three shots, including keeping them in bounds.

guy makes slick bounce passes on the money and obviously can flush it with the best of 'em.

ya, im a fan...

psiclist23 wrote: Well, in my own defense, since Sling switched to Chrome instead of the app, the picture is crap, with constant buffering. So yeah, it's me.

can you use your phone and cast it to your tv, works way better that way than the website. get chromecast, it's worth it. Or roku but I've personally never used that.

97cats wrote:

psiclist23 wrote:
Well, in my own defense, since Sling switched to Chrome instead of the app, the picture is crap, with constant buffering. So yeah, it's me.

shit thats funny -- just know this, he sprinted end to end multiple times and beat everyone down the floor, saved balls bouncing out of bounds off a one footed jump and under hand save/pass, hit four 15/17ft jumpers and blocked what i thought was at least three shots, including keeping them in bounds.

guy makes slick bounce passes on the money and obviously can flush it with the best of 'em.

ya, im a fan...

I'm a fan, too. Norlander just had an "article" praising Bagley for scoring 25 in his Debut. Hey, Ayton had 32. I think he'll go #1.

edit: Norlander did pick AZ to win it all.

The most talented player I have ever seen in Tucson, and Sean Elliot was my favorite player when I was a kid.

TucsonClip wrote:The most talented player I have ever seen in Tucson, and Sean Elliot was my favorite player when I was a kid.

Well-said.....Sean was my favorite too!

That face-up jumper is so valuable, especially against zone. Get to the free throw line or elbow. Catch, turn, shoot. If they collapse, pass to wing for open J. If they scramble to the wing, that guy blows by on the drive.

Opens up everything.

And, damn, that one-handed flush off the missed shot. Damn. Also, like that he's so composed after doing something amazing.

I do worry about his legs and feet. Those don't always hold up when you're that big (Walton, Oden).

TucsonClip wrote:The most talented player I have ever seen in Tucson, and Sean Elliot was my favorite player when I was a kid.

Elliott is my favorite player I've ever watched, but I think Markkanen is more talented than Elliott. Hard to compare 1-year players with 4-year players, but Markkanen as a senior in college would be remembered for a long, long time.

Just nice to see Arizona have a center who can hang on to the ball and finish. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Longhorned wrote:

TucsonClip wrote:The most talented player I have ever seen in Tucson, and Sean Elliot was my favorite player when I was a kid.

Elliott is my favorite player I've ever watched, but I think Markkanen is more talented than Elliott. Hard to compare 1-year players with 4-year players, but Markkanen as a senior in college would be remembered for a long, long time.

Players not staying has changed so much. If players stayed 4 years, last year's roster would have included:

Rondae, Stanley, Zo, Rawle, Aaron, Lauri and then PJC and Dusan to blame any losses on. Add in Kadeem, etc., I mean you just can't fit that amount of talent.