Bear Down Wildcats

AZCatGirl wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:13 am

KillerKlown wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:18 am So which school is it this time pushing their bs?

OSU if this guy is any indication:

Ummm basketball I’d say.

And bottom feeders I assume means eyeballs/ratings because that’s all that matters really even if their football programs have been pretty good actually.

EastCoastCat wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 12:05 pm

AZCatGirl wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 11:13 am

KillerKlown wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2023 10:18 am So which school is it this time pushing their bs?

OSU if this guy is any indication:

Ummm basketball I’d say.

And bottom feeders I assume means eyeballs/ratings because that’s all that matters really even if their football programs have been pretty good actually.

Oregon State finally has one decent year in football and now they're a fucking powerhouse to these dipshits.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to their situation, but at some point reality has to take over. Even when we joined the Pac in 1978, USC and others wanted to eventually cut them loose...as replaced by us and Tempe. In football, we lead OSU all-time 24-16-1, and we've won 3 of the last 5. We lead WSU 27-19 in a series that's swung back and forth. But, we're 7-6 in those most recent years, which includes our winning 5 in a row. Other than Mike Price's 2 spike years, the Pirate was as good as they ever got for his 8 years there. But, they're not P5 schools anymore, with anticipated money and exposure problems coming, as well as trying to sell tickets to games against Utah St, Wyoming, and Nevada (or something similar.) And it won't matter if the title of their relegation league starts with "Mountain" or "Pac." I'll give OSU the credit they're due for baseball, but it's only for the last 16 years, and in the post Pat Casey years now and going forward, we'll see how their recruiting holds up when they'll be playing against MWC-caliber teams. And the rest of OSU's and WSU's sports are garbage.

And then there were two. Plus a preview of the ACC collapse.

Burning relationships with the three biggest brands in the ACC just to add 2 schools with below average fan attendance and a red headed step child in SMU that's less popular then some high school teams in their own city. This should be interesting to watch unravel. ACC is done for.

KillerKlown wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 8:43 am Burning relationships with the three biggest brands in the ACC just to add 2 schools with below average fan attendance and a red headed step child in SMU that's less popular then some high school teams in their own city. This should be interesting to watch unravel. ACC is done for.

I'm just happy Stanford and Cal are off the board. I had some concern that the Big XII might change (lose?) its mind and add them at the last minute. And I can't see OSU/WSU pulling off any coup in adding MWC schools. Why should MWC schools switch to a league managed by people who have failed so miserably? The money to support the P12N is gone after this season, and after the Pac legally dissolves, the MWC can change its name to the Pac-Mountain or whatever they want, if that does anything for them. Seems pretty clear that OSU/WSU will be relegated there. It's a tough and unfortunate spot for them, and despite some of their dumb fans, I'm not gloating. It's just that we've been waiting forever for this whole mess to shake out, and now it looks like it finally has.

I can see each side's reasoning.

The ACC probably considers that Florida State, Clemson and North Carolina are as good as gone so they're positioning themselves for that eventuality. That they are angry while they remain is of little concern to the president of Wake Forest and Louisville. Plus it gives them a little more money to placate the "big" schools, so maybe they remain a bit longer.

SMU will do anything - ANYTHING - to be in the Power 5, er, 4. They are foregoing media revenue for 9 years. It's okay though because they have rich alumni who have stepped up to make up any differences. Same types of people who fueled The Pony Express, but now it's above-board.

StanCal just need the Power 4 lifeline for their Olympic sports.

So it's a marriage of convenience, not of love. We'll see if it works out.

So it's the 2Pac now?

Capital Tiger wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:09 am The ACC probably considers that Florida State, Clemson and North Carolina are as good as gone so they're positioning themselves for that eventuality.

Where the hell do those three think they're going?

CatsbyAZ wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 12:10 pm

Capital Tiger wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:09 am The ACC probably considers that Florida State, Clemson and North Carolina are as good as gone so they're positioning themselves for that eventuality.

Where the hell do those three think they're going?

Short term, nowhere. If they could have figured out a way out of the GOR, they would have by now. Long term? Who knows what the college athletics landscape looks like a decade from now.

Depending on what happens, there is some money at stake, but I'm betting lawyers will wind up getting a big chunk of it. OSU and WSU may feel they can get one last big payday out of the residual money in the Pac-12. I gather that, rather than going, hats in hand, into the MWC, there might be some kind of announced "restructuring" where the MWC says they're really going into the Pac-12, and they get to vulture into the money and automatic playoff bid. Maybe it'll work out, but a rose by any other name and all that. One comment that rankled me a bit was that "if you own the brand, you own the history." Uh...no. You may have Pac Lite, but Fresno State and the rest don't get to run clips inferring they had any part of historical events like the story of Roy "Wrong Way" Riegels, or even any part of our 45-year association.

Kinda sad the future of the once great Pac is just becoming the MWC. They can't possibly still be considered a power conference, right?

KillerKlown wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:41 pm

Isn’t TCU in Fort Worth?

Catintheheat wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:48 pm

KillerKlown wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:41 pm

Isn’t TCU in Fort Worth?

Okay, so SMU and TCU are rivals. Trophy game and every thing.

TCU just cancelled the series with SMU.

So this is a direct dig at TCU.

Capital Tiger wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:30 pm

Catintheheat wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:48 pm

KillerKlown wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:41 pm

Isn’t TCU in Fort Worth?

Okay, so SMU and TCU are rivals. Trophy game and every thing.

TCU just cancelled the series with SMU.

So this is a direct dig at TCU.

I thought it was a dig at the Big 12.

UAEebs86 wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:31 pm

Capital Tiger wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:30 pm

Catintheheat wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:48 pm

KillerKlown wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:41 pm

Isn’t TCU in Fort Worth?

Okay, so SMU and TCU are rivals. Trophy game and every thing.

TCU just cancelled the series with SMU.

So this is a direct dig at TCU.

I thought it was a dig at the Big 12.

Only insomuch as the Big XII is an extension of TCU.

KillerKlown wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:41 pm

What a schmuck

Would they join and rebrand as the PAC?

azcat49 wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2023 6:04 pm Would they join and rebrand as the PAC?

If they can figure out a merger they get to keep all the tournament credits.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... st-pac-12/

Oregon State, Washington State file for emergency restraining order against Pac-12

Oregon State and Washington State filed for an emergency temporary restraining order against the Pac-12 and commissioner George Kliavkoff Friday. The two schools seek to stop all votes on league matters until there is legal clarity on who controls what is left of the conference.

The Pac-12's remaining assets are at the heart of the dispute, particularly since Pac-12 bylaws suggest the presidents at Oregon State and Washington State should be alone on the conference's board of directors by virtue of other members giving formal notice of intent to exit the conference.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the OSU and WSU position.

RichardCranium wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 1:00 am I have a great deal of sympathy for the OSU and WSU position.

Their fate was sealed once the LA schools announced they were leaving.

https://theathletic.com/4853583/2023/09 ... er-pac-12/

Aren't they lame ducks anyway? I mean what could they be "deciding" at these Board meetings? Who gets to take Walton next year?

EastCoastCat wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 1:42 pm Aren't they lame ducks anyway? I mean what could they be "deciding" at these Board meetings? Who gets to take Walton next year?

https://www.on3.com/news/pac-12-oregon- ... -meetings/

On3’s Eric Prisbell has reported the idea of a reverse merger between the Pac-12 and Mountain West could still be on the table. But the Pac-12’s assets could make that a complicated conversation, and Thamel shed more light on that on The Paul Finebaum Show Friday.

“With two teams left in the Pac-12, [Oregon State and Washington State] want to assure, essentially, that those two schools comprise the board of directors,” Thamel said. “Now, there are 10s and 10s of millions of dollars of assets at stake. $42 million at the end of fiscal ’22, the lawsuit stated. There’s also another estimated $50 million in NCAA Tournament units. And believe it or not, the Pac-12 Network — often the butt of jokes in our industry — made $40 million last year. The network infrastructure is worth money.

“Essentially, at the core of this suit is Washington State and Oregon State wanting to keep their options open. And if there are enough assets — now there’s liabilities. The overpayment to Comcast, there’s 10s of millions [of dollars] potentially owed there. But if Washington State and Oregon State can leverage those assets and essentially invite or have an amicable merger with the Mountain West, they could use that as a pot of money to also keep the Pac-12 name.”

The PAC has assets (PAC-12 Network) and liabilities (Comcast), plus a spot in the college football playoffs. The 2-PAC (WSU and OSU) have two years to rebuild the PAC to at least 8 teams before they lose their NCAA recognition. What the 2-PAC is missing is a TV agreement.

I think the Mountain West wouldn't mind a merge under the PAC banner, but only if it comes with the guaranteed college football playoff spot. The questions about the PAC's assets and liabilities also need to be resolved.

Right now, it's all about the lawyers. The questions they are asking are how to resolve the PAC's asset and liability issues? Can the PAC retain its playoff spot if it merges with the MWC? And if they merge, what happens to the MWC's TV contract?

Read where the transitioning teams wanted to use PAC funds for the transfer costs. That is just plain ludicrous. On this one I am rooting hard for OSU and WSU to keep those assets and pay out only the revenues due to each leaving school from the CFP abd NCAA TOURNAMENT along with the network profits due( guess they made 40m last year)

azcat49 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:07 pm Read where the transitioning teams wanted to use PAC funds for the transfer costs. That is just plain ludicrous. On this one I am rooting hard for OSU and WSU to keep those assets and pay out only the revenues due to each leaving school from the CFP abd NCAA TOURNAMENT along with the network profits due( guess they made 40m last year)

Except that WSU/OSU want ALL of the revenues from the CFP/NCAA tournament and the P12 network.

Well I don’t blame them but pretty standard to provide a share from this year of network profits and then payout the units from the basketball tournament as earned by each member school from that year

azcat49 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:50 pm Well I don’t blame them but pretty standard to provide a share from this year of network profits and then payout the units from the basketball tournament as earned by each member school from that year

"Standard".........thats the crux of the issue. I'm not sure what is "Standard" here because very few conferences have disintegrated like the Pac12. The bylaws (from what I have read) state that the schools leaving no longer have a vote in conference matters. If that holds up in court then OSU/WSU can lay claim to all of the assets/revenue from the P12 this year.

Great then, they deserve it for being abandoned. Hope they win big. We will do OK

AzCatFan2 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:05 pm The PAC has assets (PAC-12 Network) and liabilities (Comcast), plus a spot in the college football playoffs. The 2-PAC (WSU and OSU) have two years to rebuild the PAC to at least 8 teams before they lose their NCAA recognition. What the 2-PAC is missing is a TV agreement.

I think the Mountain West wouldn't mind a merge under the PAC banner, but only if it comes with the guaranteed college football playoff spot. The questions about the PAC's assets and liabilities also need to be resolved.

Right now, it's all about the lawyers. The questions they are asking are how to resolve the PAC's asset and liability issues? Can the PAC retain its playoff spot if it merges with the MWC? And if they merge, what happens to the MWC's TV contract?

There are no guaranteed college football playoff spots. The automatic bids will go to "the six best conference champs", not the Power 5 and the best Group of 5.

dmjcat wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 6:20 pm

azcat49 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 5:50 pm Well I don’t blame them but pretty standard to provide a share from this year of network profits and then payout the units from the basketball tournament as earned by each member school from that year

"Standard".........thats the crux of the issue. I'm not sure what is "Standard" here because very few conferences have disintegrated like the Pac12. The bylaws (from what I have read) state that the schools leaving no longer have a vote in conference matters. If that holds up in court then OSU/WSU can lay claim to all of the assets/revenue from the P12 this year.

Can they just put literally anything on the table and vote on it, including CURRENT stuff that would still impact all 12 schools while they are still part of the Pac-12. I assume they can't just put a vote today on taking everyone's media revenue effective 9/12/2023 and then allocate it to just two schools.

Everything that is going to happen must happen according to the conference's bylaws. With financial agreements that have already been agreed upon, I'd be shocked if those bylaws would be affected for this current year.

Yeah they can probably vote on the assets but not sure they can touch the income as that has to be used to pay operating expenses, etc…

My understanding is nothing can change this athletic/academic year in terms of scheduling and the sports themselves. Assets and future stuff is up for discussion

And here comes the NFL to potentially take out the NCAA

A new report from Sports Business Journal says that “a half-dozen sources” believe that there’s a potential opportunity for the league to swoop in, end the NCAA once and for all, and bring some stability to college football.

How? By taking a few dozen of the top teams and launching an entirely new media rights setup.

Instead of the hodgepodge of conference media deals, “The top 50 teams in college football sign a grant of rights to NewCo., a tripartite partnership of Fox Sports, Disney and the NFL.”

https://www.outkick.com/new-report-says ... -with-nfl/

And Fox, Disney, and the NFL are any different from the ncaa?

Chi and I have both been touting the relegation concept.

Relegation is a professional sports model. We are moving further and further away from the college model.

While money (NIL) has helped the players (about time), it also has started to ruin the game, at least in my mind.

Talk of relegation and college teams aligning with pro teams like a minor league affiliation is just crazy to me. It certainly will spark more investment from schools into their programs and escalate higher payouts to players

EastCoastCat wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:10 am Chi and I have both been touting the relegation concept.

The idea of the NFL taking 28 or so teams for a "premiere-like" league, and maybe more for a second tier, with a "relegation concept", of course, means the end of the NCAA.There would be no way football would remain a "collegiate" sport, as we now conceive it. It would bee more like minor league baseball rather than collegiate baseball.

Whatever one thinks of the NCAA, it is a non-profit corporation overseen by a board of NCAA member presidents.
Obviously, the NFL is, and will never be, either.

I cannot conceive of the U of A being selected for the original "premiere-like" league under any scenario, and. even if in the second "tier", ever being anything other than an "also ran".

The future of collegiate sports would, under such a scenario, be so radically different than it is now it'd hard to imagine. If a NCAA-like organization were to continue to be the governance structure, I suppose that the U of A would be well situated, since basketball would replace football as the major income generator.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

pc in NM wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:08 am

EastCoastCat wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:10 am Chi and I have both been touting the relegation concept.

The idea of the NFL taking 28 or so teams for a "premiere-like" league, and maybe more for a second tier, with a "relegation concept", of course, means the end of the NCAA.There would be no way football would remain a "collegiate" sport, as we now conceive it. It would bee more like minor league baseball rather than collegiate baseball.

Whatever one thinks of the NCAA, it is a non-profit corporation overseen by a board of NCAA member presidents.
Obviously, the NFL is, and will never be, either.

I cannot conceive of the U of A being selected for the original "premiere-like" league under any scenario, and. even if in the second "tier", ever being anything other than an "also ran".

The future of collegiate sports would, under such a scenario, be so radically different than it is now it'd hard to imagine. If a NCAA-like organization were to continue to be the governance structure, I suppose that the U of A would be well situated, since basketball would replace football as the major income generator.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR!

I used to write memo's and report's and give it to an admin to type out and send interoffice or mail.

Times change.

pc in NM wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 10:08 am

EastCoastCat wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2023 5:10 am Chi and I have both been touting the relegation concept.

The idea of the NFL taking 28 or so teams for a "premiere-like" league, and maybe more for a second tier, with a "relegation concept", of course, means the end of the NCAA.There would be no way football would remain a "collegiate" sport, as we now conceive it. It would bee more like minor league baseball rather than collegiate baseball.

College football is such a big business that it feels like it's already a minor league for the NFL. May as well make it official.

No, we wouldn't be a part of that, but we're a basketball school that's about to join the best basketball conference in the nation. I think we'll be fine in that niche, as it's still very profitable for us.