Sean Miller

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:26 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:Luke Walton might
Lakers HC is one of the best jobs in all of sports. He’s not going anywhere.

Agree. No coaching required with the Lakers. Need someone who can develop young talent at a college.

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:30 pm

Who is worse...Miller or RR?

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:30 pm

Merkin wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:Luke Walton might
Lakers HC is one of the best jobs in all of sports. He’s not going anywhere.
Agree. No coaching required with the Lakers. Need someone who can develop young talent at a college.

not entirely sure what you are saying here but that is basically his job with the Lakers. Lonzo, Kuzma, Josh Hart, Ingram, Randle, Zubac, etc.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:32 pm

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:33 pm

Smart phones gonna be the downfall of many. Essentially, portable spying devices that never leave your side. Would think a blue collar, east coast guy from PA that all business is done at the back of the restaurant/warehouse.

Im in total shock. This changes the whole landscape of the sport. Only reason to watch is to see how things are handled in these unprecedented times. They immediately going to declare Ayton and whoever else was paid (ie everyone) and ban 20 plus of the top programs in the nation from the tourney? Are Williams, K, Cal, Miller, Izzo (and on and on) all gonna be done w CBB? And all their potential replacements are involved in the same game.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:34 pm

Irish27 wrote:

So Arizona paid $100k for Ayton but we're all to assume that Bagley went to Duke for a 1-year scholarship. Okie Dokie.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:36 pm

Merkin wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
RaisingArizona wrote:Luke Walton might
Lakers HC is one of the best jobs in all of sports. He’s not going anywhere.
Agree. No coaching required with the Lakers. Need someone who can develop young talent at a college.

I don’t think he has all that much job security though and the West is brutal.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:37 pm

My first question is how is a sealed wiretap getting out in the open, if this is actual evidence who has it and how did they get it?

Second question, a conversation about money is not illegal, a conversation about a bribe can be though...is this considered a bribe or something else?

Third question, if no actual money trail exists, and Dawkins has no proof what does Miller do? Suppose he talked to Dawkins, but no money changed hands or went to the family (the obvious recipients) from Miller or the Uni, does this become a peripheral contract issue...

I have heard rumors that Miller was actually cooperating with the FBI, is there a chance that Miller was in on the sting to bring down Dawkins since the whole Las vegas thing (where an assistant coach was brought in) and the wiretap is simply part of that?

I am not willing to toss Miller under the bus yet and even if he is guilty, it appears to be a culture wide situation...

DrWildcat · Post by **DrWildcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:37 pm

zonagrad wrote:
Irish27 wrote:
So Arizona paid $100k for Ayton but we're all to assume that Bagley went to Duke for a 1-year scholarship. Okie Dokie.

I doubt anyone believes that but we need proof and I really hope there is some. I'm now just a bitter fan who hopes multiple big name programs suffer the same fate as us.

CatsbyAZ · Post by **CatsbyAZ** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:39 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Boy does my last post sound ridiculous.

In total shock. Might need to be done with college hoops.

Lucky me I've been drifting away from college hoops for a while. Hard too watch the P12 living on the East Coast. Too many games to care about. Much of Reg season overshadowed by other sports and not very entertaining anyway.

But seriously, this is a bummer

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:41 pm

Irish27 wrote:Agree with JT 100%.

The smart people are all saying/implying that this has been going on long before Miller... and JT has a clean history himself, right?

phxcat23 · Post by **phxcat23** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:42 pm

zonagrad wrote:
Irish27 wrote:
So Arizona paid $100k for Ayton but we're all to assume that Bagley went to Duke for a 1-year scholarship. Okie Dokie.

Exactly my thinking as well. You know these player have an idea of what others are getting to use as possible leverage. If Ayton was getting 100k, you know Bagley wasn't just going to Duke for free if everyone else is getting a cut. They probably are just a lot smarter about their business.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:43 pm

zonagrad wrote:
Irish27 wrote:
So Arizona paid $100k for Ayton but we're all to assume that Bagley went to Duke for a 1-year scholarship. Okie Dokie.

We were recruiting Bagley too. So we pay top dollar, but Bagley was like, nah, I'd rather have a semester's worth of Duke's education.

Look, I'm not minimizing Arizona's situation. But we ain't alone.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:43 pm

CatFanOneMil wrote:My first question is how is a sealed wiretap getting out in the open, if this is actual evidence who has it and how did they get it?

I was listening to the Rich Eisen show. They had a law professor from Tulane talking about all of the leaks. This was before this news dropped, but it was his guess that the FBI was trying to put pressure on
a big fish. Not sure who that would be.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:44 pm

DrWildcat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:
Irish27 wrote:
So Arizona paid $100k for Ayton but we're all to assume that Bagley went to Duke for a 1-year scholarship. Okie Dokie.

I doubt anyone believes that but we need proof and I really hope there is some. I'm now just a bitter fan who hopes multiple big name programs suffer the same fate as us.

There is a lot of talk on the board about the UA being in the same boat as Duke/Kansas/MSU. I would caution against that assumption. Most of the evidence we have seen so far basically shows (in most cases) that the players were being paid by Agents. In the majority of the cases there have been no assistants/head coaches implicated (yet).........with the UA being a notable exception. If there is no evidence of coaches being involved that I suspect that the NCAA is not going to come down heavily on the program involved. Now, if your head coach is on tape discussing paying a player six figures.......well............................................................................................

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:45 pm

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:45 pm

phxcat23 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:
Irish27 wrote:
So Arizona paid $100k for Ayton but we're all to assume that Bagley went to Duke for a 1-year scholarship. Okie Dokie.
Exactly my thinking as well. You know these player have an idea of what others are getting to use as possible leverage. If Ayton was getting 100k, you know Bagley wasn't just going to Duke for free if everyone else is getting a cut. They probably are just a lot smarter about their business.

No. We just know their phones weren't tapped by the FBI.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:46 pm

Irish27 wrote:

Denial is NOT a river in Egypt

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:46 pm

CatFanOneMil wrote:My first question is how is a sealed wiretap getting out in the open, if this is actual evidence who has it and how did they get it?

Second question, a conversation about money is not illegal, a conversation about a bribe can be though...is this considered a bribe or something else?

Third question, if no actual money trail exists, and Dawkins has no proof what does Miller do? Suppose he talked to Dawkins, but no money changed hands or went to the family (the obvious recipients) from Miller or the Uni, does this become a peripheral contract issue...

I have heard rumors that Miller was actually cooperating with the FBI, is there a chance that Miller was in on the sting to bring down Dawkins since the whole Las vegas thing (where an assistant coach was brought in) and the wiretap is simply part of that?

I am not willing to toss Miller under the bus yet and even if he is guilty, it appears to be a culture wide situation...

If CSM was in on bringing down Dawkins this wiretap info wouldnt be in the news w his name on it. There's no way u can spin this, just gonna have to see how it plays out w everyone else who did the same shit.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:49 pm

The weird thing is I actually think this is a corporate corruption case and that the FBI is using college basketball as leverage. If so the real target is probably the shoe companies and everything that goes on in AAU. This is just the more visible arena so if’s a useful way for the FBI to exert pressure on multi Millionaire executives and their lawyers. Just a guess of course but I think it’s plausible

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:51 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
Irish27 wrote:Agree with JT 100%.
The smart people are all saying/implying that this has been going on long before Miller... and JT has a clean history himself, right?

Yeah, JT should probably just enjoy collecting an NBA paycheck for however much longer he is going to. Be very careful not to place yourself on a pedestal too high... because it just means you have that much farther to fall.

These rumors have been going around for a long, long time... dating back to when Lute was here. And he was at the forefront of coaches getting shoe contracts, which seems to be when this dynamic started to pick up steam.

I am not trying to indict the entire sport because it appears our current guy is going down. But now that the fantasy is getting exposed, let's stop pretending.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:51 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote:My first question is how is a sealed wiretap getting out in the open, if this is actual evidence who has it and how did they get it?

Second question, a conversation about money is not illegal, a conversation about a bribe can be though...is this considered a bribe or something else?

Third question, if no actual money trail exists, and Dawkins has no proof what does Miller do? Suppose he talked to Dawkins, but no money changed hands or went to the family (the obvious recipients) from Miller or the Uni, does this become a peripheral contract issue...

I have heard rumors that Miller was actually cooperating with the FBI, is there a chance that Miller was in on the sting to bring down Dawkins since the whole Las vegas thing (where an assistant coach was brought in) and the wiretap is simply part of that?

I am not willing to toss Miller under the bus yet and even if he is guilty, it appears to be a culture wide situation...
If CSM was in on bringing down Dawkins this wiretap info wouldnt be in the news w his name on it. There's no way u can spin this, just gonna have to see how it plays out w everyone else who did the same shit.

Why not?

No one is explaining how wiretap info got out in the wild yet...if it is evidence who leaked it?

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:52 pm

If, and I underline IF, this is true then Miller will get no sympathy from me.

If true, he is not only a cheating crook, but a really STUPID cheating crook. If you are a head coach and intend to cheat then you damn well
better make sure that there are a very large number of intermediaries between you and the $$$$$$$. Anyone talking $$$$ with a recruit or his parents should be some 3rd party lawyer residing in the Caymans.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:53 pm

Irish27 wrote:

Highly predictable. And the moment that Miller gets the axe, he will pivot faster than Pernell Whitaker (or was it Meldrick Taylor?) in the Gold medal round.

If he is right, I will gladly apologize.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:53 pm

Well, Miller is apparently the lead story on SportsCenter.

phxcat23 · Post by **phxcat23** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:54 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote:My first question is how is a sealed wiretap getting out in the open, if this is actual evidence who has it and how did they get it?

Second question, a conversation about money is not illegal, a conversation about a bribe can be though...is this considered a bribe or something else?

Third question, if no actual money trail exists, and Dawkins has no proof what does Miller do? Suppose he talked to Dawkins, but no money changed hands or went to the family (the obvious recipients) from Miller or the Uni, does this become a peripheral contract issue...

I have heard rumors that Miller was actually cooperating with the FBI, is there a chance that Miller was in on the sting to bring down Dawkins since the whole Las vegas thing (where an assistant coach was brought in) and the wiretap is simply part of that?

I am not willing to toss Miller under the bus yet and even if he is guilty, it appears to be a culture wide situation...
If CSM was in on bringing down Dawkins this wiretap info wouldnt be in the news w his name on it. There's no way u can spin this, just gonna have to see how it plays out w everyone else who did the same shit.

The weird thing about all of this though is that the information Yahoo obtained isn't even everything since it's still in the courts. So if this is true with CSM, wouldn't we have seen the FBI at Miller's house if there was more supporting evidence besides the phone conversation.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:55 pm

dmjcat wrote:If, and I underline IF, this is true then Miller will get no sympathy from me.

If true, he is not only a cheating crook, but a really STUPID cheating crook. If you are a head coach and intend to cheat then you damn well
better make sure that there are a very large number of intermediaries between you and the $$$$$$$. Anyone talking $$$$ with a recruit or his parents should be some 3rd party lawyer residing in the Caymans.

I think that only goes to show how ordinary this is in college basketball. Pitino was doing the same.

The fact that this is all documented and in normal, course of business emails shows this is just how the game is played.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:56 pm

Irish27 wrote:

But when was the wiretap? Ayton signed in 2016. No way Miller was working with them back then. Then why would be say what he said on a wiretap to dawkins in 2017 if Ayton was already signed?

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:59 pm

With Miller and Romar implicated with Ayton and Fultz respectively who would coach tomorrow if both were fired?

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:59 pm

I’m sick.

The only thing that would make me feel better is if we got some details on Duke’s most recent recruiting classes.

atlantakat · Post by **atlantakat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:01 pm

Let's talk about the Oregon game!

Over under on Miller vs. Romar on the sidelines?
Does Ayton suit up?
Does Trier suit up?
Does Rawle suit up?

Cats win a tight game after pissing away a big lead. No big deal.

Then we clinch the conference next week at McKale.

Bear Down!

phxcat23 · Post by **phxcat23** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:03 pm

Looking forward to what Bill Walton has to say tomorrow. Might be entertaining.

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:04 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:With Miller and Romar implicated with Ayton and Fultz respectively who would coach tomorrow if both were fired?

Lute comes out of retirement and the Cats play zone defense and win the National Championship.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:05 pm

Chicat wrote:I’m sick.

The only thing that would make me feel better is if we got some details on Duke’s most recent recruiting classes.

Me too, Chi. Misery loves company, brother.

And not even shady Duke news would help. Just want this nightmare over as soon as possible.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:06 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
zonagrad wrote:
Irish27 wrote:
So Arizona paid $100k for Ayton but we're all to assume that Bagley went to Duke for a 1-year scholarship. Okie Dokie.
We were recruiting Bagley too. So we pay top dollar, but Bagley was like, nah, I'd rather have a semester's worth of Duke's education.

Look, I'm not minimizing Arizona's situation. But we ain't alone.

This is largely where I am at. But if you want to achieve fame and fortune getting your hands dirty, you deserve what you get when the hammer comes down. Sell your soul to the devil at your own peril... but don't complain when you are escorted to hell. (That goes for all of them... not just our guy).

I wish I could believe this is all going to be okay, but my hope for a positive outcome is diminished.

I have loved Sean Miller. I do not hate him now, but I will reserve the sympathy I have for a whole lot of people in this world who deserve it more than him.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:07 pm

We already knew this was a widespread practice. We even knew $100,000 is the going rate, and where that money comes from. Miller wouldn't offer that money if it wasn't expected.

But it's entirely possible that Miller is the only coach to do it himself, do it over the phone, and to approve of sloppy work by assistants. In which case, the NCAA could very well make Miller the scapegoat and try to maintain the illusion.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:08 pm

"Multiple conversations"

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:12 pm

Irish27 wrote:
Captain Obvious wrote:With Miller and Romar implicated with Ayton and Fultz respectively who would coach tomorrow if both were fired?
Lute comes out of retirement and the Cats play zone defense and win the National Championship.

You sir are a master strategist!

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:15 pm

Irish27 wrote:
Captain Obvious wrote:With Miller and Romar implicated with Ayton and Fultz respectively who would coach tomorrow if both were fired?
Lute comes out of retirement and the Cats play zone defense and win the National Championship.

Triangle and 2

Irish27 · Post by **Irish27** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:16 pm

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:16 pm

Chicat wrote:I’m sick.

The only thing that would make me feel better is if we got some details on Duke’s most recent recruiting classes.

Remember the FBI's initial announcement about how 150k is the going rate?

It has become a lot more set in stone that it was truth today. My only big question is like Longhorned: Does the NCAA try to scapegoat and maintain the illusion or accept reality.

UALoco · Post by **UALoco** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:17 pm

dmjcat wrote:
Irish27 wrote:

Denial is NOT a river in Egypt

Must suck when your whole reason for living is a total fraud.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:19 pm

IMNSHO, it makes no difference if "everybody else is doing it" (of course not everybody, but whatever). If anyone did it, they were cheating. Period.

I suppose there is some remote possibility that Miller is innocent of the allegation here, but even the most lax interpretayion of "institutional control" would seem to mandate the he should be suspended pending a full investigation.

And, again IMNSHO, if it turns out he did this (Ayton, and maybe others), fuck him. We're not there yet, but it doesn't look good.

No excuses.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:20 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
dmjcat wrote:If, and I underline IF, this is true then Miller will get no sympathy from me.

If true, he is not only a cheating crook, but a really STUPID cheating crook. If you are a head coach and intend to cheat then you damn well
better make sure that there are a very large number of intermediaries between you and the $$$$$$$. Anyone talking $$$$ with a recruit or his parents should be some 3rd party lawyer residing in the Caymans.
I think that only goes to show how ordinary this is in college basketball. Pitino was doing the same.

The fact that this is all documented and in normal, course of business emails shows this is just how the game is played.

Yep. And if you aren't playing the game, then you will not be a coach. You won't even get hired because you won't be able to recruit. How is this any different than the ridiculous AAU circuit? Personally, I could care less if every school is paying players. Whoever is putting up the money is risking over-paying for a player who may or may not be worth it. I enjoy college basketball because of the competition on the court. Whether a player's family took a payment doesn't bother me the slightest, whether he's attending Pepperdine, Arizona or Slippery Rock. We love to think that every player gets a small stipend and is amateur to the core. But what does it matter than a poor kid from a family in the projects is trying to maximize his value and accept money for a skill that very few have? Would we be upset if some poor kid from the projects who is a match prodigy accepted an academic scholarship to a prestigious university and also accepted thousands of dollars from a prestigious company at the same time to perhaps secure his future employment? Of course not.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:21 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Chicat wrote:I’m sick.

The only thing that would make me feel better is if we got some details on Duke’s most recent recruiting classes.
Remember the FBI's initial announcement about how 150k is the going rate?

It has become a lot more set in stone that it was truth today. My only big question is like Longhorned: Does the NCAA try to scapegoat and maintain the illusion or accept reality.

Whichever is easiest. Right now, that's scapegoat. Hard to see that changing. The masses of people who tune into March Madness don't really even know who Jay Bilas is. All that money doesn't hinge on objections to the illusion.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:23 pm

Newportcat wrote:Little surprised anyone is stunned we paid recruits

Stunned Sean go involved. Stunned he talked to Dawkins directly. Stunned we didn't backchannel it.

Sloppy. Like a different kind of sloppy than Stoops, but similar focus issues.

phxcat23 · Post by **phxcat23** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:23 pm

Irish27 wrote:

This tweet was before ESPN even broke news though?

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:23 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote:My first question is how is a sealed wiretap getting out in the open, if this is actual evidence who has it and how did they get it?

Second question, a conversation about money is not illegal, a conversation about a bribe can be though...is this considered a bribe or something else?

Third question, if no actual money trail exists, and Dawkins has no proof what does Miller do? Suppose he talked to Dawkins, but no money changed hands or went to the family (the obvious recipients) from Miller or the Uni, does this become a peripheral contract issue...

I have heard rumors that Miller was actually cooperating with the FBI, is there a chance that Miller was in on the sting to bring down Dawkins since the whole Las vegas thing (where an assistant coach was brought in) and the wiretap is simply part of that?

I am not willing to toss Miller under the bus yet and even if he is guilty, it appears to be a culture wide situation...
If CSM was in on bringing down Dawkins this wiretap info wouldnt be in the news w his name on it. There's no way u can spin this, just gonna have to see how it plays out w everyone else who did the same shit.

well the FBI didn't come out with this info, a source in the know did. That's strange, a little no?

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:25 pm

pc in NM wrote:IMNSHO, it makes no difference if "everybody else is doing it" (of course not everybody, but whatever). If anyone did it, they were cheating. Period.

I suppose there is some remote possibility that Miller is innocent of the allegation here, but even the most lax interpretayion of "institutional control" would seem to mandate the he should be suspended pending a full investigation.

And, again IMNSHO, if it turns out he did this (Ayton, and maybe others), fuck him. We're not there yet, but it doesn't look good.

No excuses.

So you don't sympathize with finding ways to compensate players in a system rigged to exploit them by people who are getting very rich by doing so.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:25 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
dmjcat wrote:If, and I underline IF, this is true then Miller will get no sympathy from me.

If true, he is not only a cheating crook, but a really STUPID cheating crook. If you are a head coach and intend to cheat then you damn well
better make sure that there are a very large number of intermediaries between you and the $$$$$$$. Anyone talking $$$$ with a recruit or his parents should be some 3rd party lawyer residing in the Caymans.
I think that only goes to show how ordinary this is in college basketball. Pitino was doing the same.

The fact that this is all documented and in normal, course of business emails shows this is just how the game is played.

You may well be right Spiff, but at the moment there is only a handful of coaches that have actually been caught with their hand in the cookie jar. The vast majority of the money changing was between agents/players.............most of the schools named have not had a head coach or even an assistant implicated. So, if Miller was just "Playing the Game", he did it very, very badly.

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