Bear Down Wildcats

This whole shit has always smelled like a conspiracy to smear and extinguish either Miller or our program, and these newfucks are buckling because they are pussies. I'll be more than happy to eat crow if proven otherwise.

dovecanyoncat wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:
In these times, especially, administrators are a weak, protective lot. And Heeke, at least, appears to be cut from that same cloth. This is his effort to restore his measure of control over the program he sees as too much of a headache.

And Choo, if any of your inferences about the optics of this move are close to accurate, it means that Miller's bosses are giving him about as much backup as a jellyfish. And they're listening to idiots on the ABOR over him or any of the other people in our actual program.

This is how you kill the goose that has laid 35 years of golden eggs, folks. One power play at a time.

Pardon my naivete, but my question is: too much of a headache compared to what? A basketball program struggling through years of backwater recovery? Is that something to include on an AD's CV? Is his reputation better served by going the Kill Miller's Program route? Perhaps it's just a dick measuring contest, but if that's the case then, damn. What a waste.

Too much of a headache compared to anyone Heeke's dealt with. You know, at all those Power 5 schools he's been AD of?

You have an AD who is in over his head, he'll make a decision like this. Just to "break it down and build it back up." His way.

No matter how little support that shows to a program already headed toward its worst finish in 35 years, through no fault of the coaches. Wouldn't call it a dick-measuring contest, but sure appears to be a move by an insecure, overwhelmed, small school AD trying to "restore balance" to his universe in his first chance at the big time.

And don't delude yourself: Robbins won't take sides with Miller over Heeke if it comes to that. That would disrupt the chain of command, and if there is anything administrators believe in, it's hierarchies. Meaning sh*t rolls downhill. Meaning admins are the last to suffer responsibility for anything, even their own decisions.

Get ready to savor the 1982-style blandness of board room decision-making permeating through the Arizona basketball culture, folks. Where you just can't be white enough, businesslike enough or non-confrontational enough.

Arizona paid a shit load to fire a coach a year ago. They are gonna do it again and run the athletic department into debt that will take a decade to recover.

All the while a golden goose of a #1 reciting class to fill McKale to the brim awaits should they decide to just wait.

Real tough decision fellas

Olsondogg wrote:Arizona paid a shit load to fire a coach a year ago. They are gonna do it again and run the athletic department into debt that will take a decade to recover.

All the while a golden goose of a #1 reciting class to fill McKale to the brim awaits should they decide to just wait.

Real tough decision fellas

Is there anything we can do like last year when we flooded Robbins emails and boosters? Like why destroy your basketball program for so much less then anything UNC or KU or others have pulled. If Miller is fired we take Heeke and Robbins with him.

Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

We dont know anything yet. A lot of what Scheer is saying makes no sense

Olsondogg wrote:Arizona paid a shit load to fire a coach a year ago. They are gonna do it again and run the athletic department into debt that will take a decade to recover.

All the while a golden goose of a #1 reciting class to fill McKale to the brim awaits should they decide to just wait.

Real tough decision fellas

Yea and in the middle of an athletic department construction project to boot...this is where I wonder about the politics of ABOR vs the autonomy of the a universities AD...I think there is a bit of "over-reaction" right now because people are worried that Dickhead Vitale actually has any influence...it LOOKS REALLY BAD to fire two assistant coaches in 24 months...BUT:

If those assistant coaches violate NCAA rules they should be fired...following that ANY reasonable AD would ask for the head coach to review his hires and submit to some sort of audit...especially given the serious nature of what seems to be happening...

If I could be totally honest...some of this is on us fans...the pressure to have a top ten program to recruit better than anyone else, that pressure is probably palatable down in the athletic department...the mantra "everyone has to be doing this shit" is so common it is almost believable by the people in the trenches...I can see where these guys could get swayed to bend the rules...that is a FUCKTON of pressure to recruit and make guys eligible and etc...

Maybe we should ALL dial it back to the amatuer level it is supposed to be.

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

Are you sure that Heeke has nothing on Miller? I am against firing Miller but Heeke isnt a dumb man. He isn't going to commit career suicide for no reason

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

I'll be right there leaving with you...#1 recruiting class in next years mens BB and you want to fuckign burn that down??? If that is Heekes design he will destroy Az for our remaining years...no one will come here, we will think Tad Boyle is a great coach.

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

Are you sure that Heeke has nothing on Miller? I am against firing Miller but Heeke isnt a dumb man. He isn't going to commit career suicide for no reason

Are you sure Heeke isn't that dumb?

Seriously you all need to look at the facts and reason. Why the hell would Heeke commit career suicide if there is nothing wrong?

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

Are you sure that Heeke has nothing on Miller? I am against firing Miller but Heeke isnt a dumb man. He isn't going to commit career suicide for no reason

Spoken like a true bean counter

CalStateTempe wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

Are you sure that Heeke has nothing on Miller? I am against firing Miller but Heeke isnt a dumb man. He isn't going to commit career suicide for no reason

Spoken like a true bean counter

What does Heeke get or benefit by doing this? Be real man

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

Are you sure that Heeke has nothing on Miller? I am against firing Miller but Heeke isnt a dumb man. He isn't going to commit career suicide for no reason

Spoken like a true bean counter

What does Heeke get or benefit by doing this? Be real man

He gets to hire his own guy and attempt his “culture of compliance”

Olsondogg wrote: He gets to hire his own guy and attempt his “culture of compliance”

Well if that isn't hard-on inducing.... Honestly, this guy could fuck up a wet dream.

Olsondogg wrote:

He gets to hire his own guy and attempt his “culture of compliance”

I can see that, but it is all just speculation...I think honestly Heeke is probably just trying to insure that the Athletic Department does not incur any more damage...I mean...think about what he stepped into...the title IX stuff, the Rich ROd stuff, then Book, now Phelps...its easy to assume he has some agenda but frankly he stepped into a vortex of issues as the AD...what should he do? Most of us were onboard with canning Rich Rod...I was anyway...I doubt the title IX stuff is just made up crap...the entire athletic department has an image problem...it would probably be easier to just clean house and start over but at the same time Miller carries the only momentum worth supporting...maybe he's just protecting Miller by stepping in and firing Phelps...Miller does seem to have a soft side for his coaches...hell look at what Book got away with before he got fingered by the fucking FBI...

I assume people are basically good until they prove me wrong.

Heeke is like bizarro livengood except in the scenario he drives away the golden goose.

CatFanOneMil wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

He gets to hire his own guy and attempt his “culture of compliance”

I can see that, but it is all just speculation...I think honestly Heeke is probably just trying to insure that the Athletic Department does not incur any more damage...I mean...think about what he stepped into...the title IX stuff, the Rich ROd stuff, then Book, now Phelps...its easy to assume he has some agenda but frankly he stepped into a vortex of issues as the AD...what should he do? Most of us were onboard with canning Rich Rod...I was anyway...I doubt the title IX stuff is just made up crap...the entire athletic department has an image problem...it would probably be easier to just clean house and start over but at the same time Miller carries the only momentum worth supporting...maybe he's just protecting Miller by stepping in and firing Phelps...Miller does seem to have a soft side for his coaches...hell look at what Book got away with before he got fingered by the fucking FBI...

I assume people are basically good until they prove me wrong.

So it was a good move to fire before the ncaa did anything...like as they were actively investigating? It’s a stupid move on so many levels.

Olsondogg wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

He gets to hire his own guy and attempt his “culture of compliance”

I can see that, but it is all just speculation...I think honestly Heeke is probably just trying to insure that the Athletic Department does not incur any more damage...I mean...think about what he stepped into...the title IX stuff, the Rich ROd stuff, then Book, now Phelps...its easy to assume he has some agenda but frankly he stepped into a vortex of issues as the AD...what should he do? Most of us were onboard with canning Rich Rod...I was anyway...I doubt the title IX stuff is just made up crap...the entire athletic department has an image problem...it would probably be easier to just clean house and start over but at the same time Miller carries the only momentum worth supporting...maybe he's just protecting Miller by stepping in and firing Phelps...Miller does seem to have a soft side for his coaches...hell look at what Book got away with before he got fingered by the fucking FBI...

I assume people are basically good until they prove me wrong.

So it was a good move to fire before the ncaa did anything...like as they were actively investigating? It’s a stupid move on so many levels.

Yes I agree STUPID which is not what we expect from our AD...but that doesn't make him bad just bad at his job...which will get him replaced faster than Miller will be.

CatFanOneMil wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

I'll be right there leaving with you...#1 recruiting class in next years mens BB and you want to fuckign burn that down??? If that is Heekes design he will destroy Az for our remaining years...no one will come here, we will think Tad Boyle is a great coach.

based on history with Miller with a #1 class might make it out of the first weekend. Then lose in the West Regionals.....in LA .....probably at Staples center...to a team playing zone

and you know it’s true

this is a guy who couldn’t figure out how to beat buffalo with the #1 pick!

Olsondogg wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

He gets to hire his own guy and attempt his “culture of compliance”

I can see that, but it is all just speculation...I think honestly Heeke is probably just trying to insure that the Athletic Department does not incur any more damage...I mean...think about what he stepped into...the title IX stuff, the Rich ROd stuff, then Book, now Phelps...its easy to assume he has some agenda but frankly he stepped into a vortex of issues as the AD...what should he do? Most of us were onboard with canning Rich Rod...I was anyway...I doubt the title IX stuff is just made up crap...the entire athletic department has an image problem...it would probably be easier to just clean house and start over but at the same time Miller carries the only momentum worth supporting...maybe he's just protecting Miller by stepping in and firing Phelps...Miller does seem to have a soft side for his coaches...hell look at what Book got away with before he got fingered by the fucking FBI...

I assume people are basically good until they prove me wrong.

So it was a good move to fire before the ncaa did anything...like as they were actively investigating? It’s a stupid move on so many levels.

It's actually viewing what Mizzou did with the NCAA and saying "Yeah, that's the outcome I'm looking for."

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

Are you sure that Heeke has nothing on Miller? I am against firing Miller but Heeke isnt a dumb man. He isn't going to commit career suicide for no reason

If he has something on Miller, bring it out. Don't backdoor this. If Miller did something to deserve this, it should be about that.

But it isn't.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

Newportcat wrote:Fuck college athletics

So fucking stupid

I’ll be done with it all if heeke commences this rebuilding process.

Are you sure that Heeke has nothing on Miller? I am against firing Miller but Heeke isnt a dumb man. He isn't going to commit career suicide for no reason

If he has something on Miller, bring it out. Don't backdoor this. If Miller did something to deserve this, it should be about that.

But it isn't.

Heeke is currently in the process of destroying his biggest cash cow due to unnecessary panicking. He is a dumb weak man Machina, I'm sorry to break it to you.

https://sports.yahoo.com/pressure-sean- ... 38938.html" target="_blank

Irish27 wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/pressure-sean- ... 38938.html

I'm happy Phelps retained an attorney. I'd like to see this truly dealt with, and I'm glad to see he's contesting it.

The title of that article "Pressure builds on Sean Miller" seems to speak volumes about what this situation is about. Not Phelps, a tool looking at Miller.

Not only did this happen around recruiting and Yahoo news, it happened during a losing streak. At first I thought Dawkins's team was behind Thamel's Yahoo article, now I wonder if it wasn't Heeke's folks.

Shit can heeke.

I hope Tucson gives him hell every time he shows his dumb looking face in public.

There’s no grand conspiracy, just ineptitude.

CalStateTempe wrote:Shit can heeke.

I hope Tucson gives him hell every time he shows his dumb looking face in public.

Sadly, most of Tucson and even a majority of UofA fans won’t understand what a travesty Heeke has committed. He’s in over his head. He’s not confident/competent enough to effectively work a room of donors, how does anyone expect him to work the NCAA? Hell, it appears that he couldn’t even stand up to a college QB when making a hire. What I really don’t understand here is what rock is Robbins hiding under unless the administration is attempting to manipulate the situation. Are they trying to piss Miller off enough to get him to quit on his own, thus avoiding a buy out? Fat chance... Heeke is playing checkers while the world around him plays chess.

So does Arizona give Mark Phillips his job back if he is found innocent?? Lol

MC1983 wrote:So does Arizona give Mark Phillips his job back if he is found innocent?? Lol

Quite honestly, if he fights termination and is vindicated, yes, they might have to.

That's one of the baffling layers of this. Heeke inexplicably locked himself in and Phelps can challenge this. Part of jumping the gun is needing to be right or suffering consequences.

PPU put out on Twitter that Arizona could not just stand by if Phelps did something wrong especially with an investigation going on. Guess who liked it .....Nico Mannion. Take it for what it is worth.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

MC1983 wrote:So does Arizona give Mark Phillips his job back if he is found innocent?? Lol

Quite honestly, if he fights termination and is vindicated, yes, they might have to.

That's one of the baffling layers of this. Heeke inexplicably locked himself in and Phelps can challenge this. Part of jumping the gun is needing to be right or suffering consequences.

Another part of jumping the gun is that for which the jump was made, which we don't understand at this point, and ultimately having the strength of conviction to follow through with the commitment if challenged. I don't have a bead on Heeke and whether he is acting out of fear or greed, but he doesn't give the impression he is acting from strength. Along with Phelps, Heeke has his neck on the block. You know ones character when the time comes to take your place upon the wheel. My gut tells me he doesn't have the stones.

So if Phelps somehow got O’Neal through a “special” online class so he could be eligible, shouldn’t UCLA be investigating this class?

UCLA your turn

dovecanyoncat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

MC1983 wrote:So does Arizona give Mark Phillips his job back if he is found innocent?? Lol

Quite honestly, if he fights termination and is vindicated, yes, they might have to.

That's one of the baffling layers of this. Heeke inexplicably locked himself in and Phelps can challenge this. Part of jumping the gun is needing to be right or suffering consequences.

Another part of jumping the gun is that for which the jump was made, which we don't understand at this point, and ultimately having the strength of conviction to follow through with the commitment if challenged. I don't have a bead on Heeke and whether he is acting out of fear or greed, but he doesn't give the impression he is acting from strength. Along with Phelps, Heeke has his neck on the block. You know ones character when the time comes to take your place upon the wheel. My gut tells me he doesn't have the stones.

IDK, but, is it possible that Arizona's own investigation (Phelps' lawyer said he had fully complied with internal compliance interviews) has revealed information not yet (if ever) discovered by the ongoing NCAA investigation?

pc in NM wrote:

dovecanyoncat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

MC1983 wrote:So does Arizona give Mark Phillips his job back if he is found innocent?? Lol

Quite honestly, if he fights termination and is vindicated, yes, they might have to.

That's one of the baffling layers of this. Heeke inexplicably locked himself in and Phelps can challenge this. Part of jumping the gun is needing to be right or suffering consequences.

Another part of jumping the gun is that for which the jump was made, which we don't understand at this point, and ultimately having the strength of conviction to follow through with the commitment if challenged. I don't have a bead on Heeke and whether he is acting out of fear or greed, but he doesn't give the impression he is acting from strength. Along with Phelps, Heeke has his neck on the block. You know ones character when the time comes to take your place upon the wheel. My gut tells me he doesn't have the stones.

IDK, but, is it possible that Arizona's own investigation (Phelps' lawyer said he had fully complied with internal compliance interviews) has revealed information not yet (if ever) discovered by the ongoing NCAA investigation?

If Heeke's move is predicated on such information it had better be a dead bang done deal. If Heeke is as some here say, a-not-ready-for-primetime-AD, then his gambit could be a weak one. If Phelps slips the trap then Heeke has to take his place. IMO. We won't know until after we know.

pc in NM wrote:

dovecanyoncat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

MC1983 wrote:So does Arizona give Mark Phillips his job back if he is found innocent?? Lol

Quite honestly, if he fights termination and is vindicated, yes, they might have to.

That's one of the baffling layers of this. Heeke inexplicably locked himself in and Phelps can challenge this. Part of jumping the gun is needing to be right or suffering consequences.

Another part of jumping the gun is that for which the jump was made, which we don't understand at this point, and ultimately having the strength of conviction to follow through with the commitment if challenged. I don't have a bead on Heeke and whether he is acting out of fear or greed, but he doesn't give the impression he is acting from strength. Along with Phelps, Heeke has his neck on the block. You know ones character when the time comes to take your place upon the wheel. My gut tells me he doesn't have the stones.

IDK, but, is it possible that Arizona's own investigation (Phelps' lawyer said he had fully complied with internal compliance interviews) has revealed information not yet (if ever) discovered by the ongoing NCAA investigation?

No, it is not possible.

so it's a day after, and I'm still at a complete loss as to any positive that comes out of jumping the gun to fire Phelps.

Heeke is a colossal moron. Even assuming he wants to clean house with no payouts due to a level 1 infraction, he went about it completely wrong.

ESPN OTL was at the game. Assuming that was planned out more than a day ago so they knew more news was dropping this week?

Also did someone sabotage the ESPN truck? lol

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote:

dovecanyoncat wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

MC1983 wrote:So does Arizona give Mark Phillips his job back if he is found innocent?? Lol

Quite honestly, if he fights termination and is vindicated, yes, they might have to.

That's one of the baffling layers of this. Heeke inexplicably locked himself in and Phelps can challenge this. Part of jumping the gun is needing to be right or suffering consequences.

Another part of jumping the gun is that for which the jump was made, which we don't understand at this point, and ultimately having the strength of conviction to follow through with the commitment if challenged. I don't have a bead on Heeke and whether he is acting out of fear or greed, but he doesn't give the impression he is acting from strength. Along with Phelps, Heeke has his neck on the block. You know ones character when the time comes to take your place upon the wheel. My gut tells me he doesn't have the stones.

IDK, but, is it possible that Arizona's own investigation (Phelps' lawyer said he had fully complied with internal compliance interviews) has revealed information not yet (if ever) discovered by the ongoing NCAA investigation?

No, it is not possible.

Can you explain this , please?

pc in NM wrote: Can you explain this , please?

Arizona and the NCAA have the same exact information. Neither party has more nor less, so it's literally impossible.

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote: Can you explain this , please?

Arizona and the NCAA have the same exact information. Neither party has more nor less, so it's literally impossible.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^


People in this day and age have gotten immensely sloppy expecting news and media to do the work of research, but it is a fairly simple GOO-GLE to go to the NCAA website and read what the actual process is...

This is not CSI Tucson with a crime scene with yellow tape around it and different teams of detectives running around, it is a cooperative venture per NCAA rules.
Always.

That is why Self Sanctioning is a complete waste of time...its an admission that YOU think you are guilty even if they don't have the evidence.

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote: Can you explain this , please?

Arizona and the NCAA have the same exact information. Neither party has more nor less, so it's literally impossible.

If the NCAA said to Phelps' Lawyer that it had no findings, but that the investigation was still underway and had more interviews to conduct, how is it impossible that the U of A's compliance staff hadn't already interviewed some of those people. That certainly seems possible.

I work in healthcare compliance, and compliance staff of any organization that I have ever interfaced with always try to know more, and before, any external entity - and, if competent, they usually do, unless there is a whistle-blower who goes directly to the external entity.

Is this somehow different in collegiate athletics compliance?

pc in NM wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote: Can you explain this , please?

Arizona and the NCAA have the same exact information. Neither party has more nor less, so it's literally impossible.

If the NCAA said to Phelps' Lawyer that it had no findings, but that the investigation was still underway and had more interviews to conduct, how is it impossible that the U of A's compliance staff hadn't already interviewed some of those people. That certainly seems possible.

I work in healthcare compliance, and compliance staff of any organization that I have ever interfaced with always try to know more, and before, any external entity - and, if competent, they usually do, unless there is a whistle-blower who goes directly to the external entity.

Is this somehow different in collegiate athletics compliance?

The second Arizona gets info it shares it with the NCAA and vice versa. They have the same exact information. Arizona is firing a coach that the NCAA hasn't deemed did anything wrong yet utilizing the same exact information. I honestly don't know what more you want me to say here.

I'm more interested in seeing how this all plays out. It's telling that Lute was at the game in support of the team, despite the laser beam pointed at us from Bristol.

Of course there's more to this story than what's being shared, especially considering JCole's comments. I think fans (or pretend fans) jump the gun far too early in assessing the situation. In fact, a lot of fans don't understand basketball that well. They think a top 5 recruiting class necessitates a top 5 finish in the tournament.

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

pc in NM wrote: Can you explain this , please?

Arizona and the NCAA have the same exact information. Neither party has more nor less, so it's literally impossible.

If the NCAA said to Phelps' Lawyer that it had no findings, but that the investigation was still underway and had more interviews to conduct, how is it impossible that the U of A's compliance staff hadn't already interviewed some of those people. That certainly seems possible.

I work in healthcare compliance, and compliance staff of any organization that I have ever interfaced with always try to know more, and before, any external entity - and, if competent, they usually do, unless there is a whistle-blower who goes directly to the external entity.

Is this somehow different in collegiate athletics compliance?

The second Arizona gets info it shares it with the NCAA and vice versa. They have the same exact information. Arizona is firing a coach that the NCAA hasn't deemed did anything wrong yet utilizing the same exact information. I honestly don't know what more you want me to say here.

Let's see if I can word this right. Isn't it possible that both the NCAA and the school have the same information in regards to Phelps but the NCAA hasn't done anything because they are waiting until the end of their entire investigation of the school?

Another question. Has the NCAA ever recommended to a school to terminate a coach or staff member as a result of their investigation or do they just leave that part up to the school?

It still mostly points to Phelps breaking an Arizona rule that goes above and beyond a NCAA rule.

And still feels like behind all this is a fact that Coach was a cooperating FBI witness. I’m sure you guys aren’t buying my intuition.

EOCT wrote:And still feels like behind all this is a fact that Coach was a cooperating FBI witness. I’m sure you guys aren’t buying my intuition.

1) How does that have anything to do with Phelps?
2) Wouldn't Dawkins and his lawyer know at this point if Miller was working with the FBI?