Bear Down Wildcats

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Here's a serious take.

The glaring flaw in NCAA logic is that fake classes may be open to all, but they only benefit athletes trying to retain eligibility by any means necessary. A student attempting to develop an actual academic skill set has no use for a sham class that does nothing to educate. The university itself derives no benefit from a bs class.

Just because it wasn't limited to only athletes doesn't change the fact that the only reason for its existence was athletes. There is no additional benefit to the institution or a student interested in anything other than gpa inflation.

For people who were concerned about college sports becoming separate from the university, like a G League team on campus, this is worse. I'd rather have a loose association of kids who get paid as opposed to a system that eviscerates its own educational message to comply with the false idol of amateur student athleticism.

There's a Business Insider article that went into great detail explaining how the Frat boys at UNC in essence saved UNC athletics. The 2 groups most disproportionately taking these fake classes were athletes, and frat boys. Wainstein specifically called it out in his report, said frat boys said the classes were well known on campus among frats, and Wainstein believed they used them to keep their GPA's up because in order to keep their campus charter, Frats have to keep a certain GPA. Lots of people thought that was a huge issue for UNC as they would obviously also conclude that's why the athletes were in the classes and the NCAA would nail them.

The NCAA went the other way and said if word of mouth got frats into those classes, it probably also got athletes so there's no proof the AD steered them. The frats are non athletes so if they were in the classes in high numbers it proves it's not extra benefits.

So in esssence because the culture of cheating was not just in the athletics department, they got away with it.

Russ Smith wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Here's a serious take.

The glaring flaw in NCAA logic is that fake classes may be open to all, but they only benefit athletes trying to retain eligibility by any means necessary. A student attempting to develop an actual academic skill set has no use for a sham class that does nothing to educate. The university itself derives no benefit from a bs class.

Just because it wasn't limited to only athletes doesn't change the fact that the only reason for its existence was athletes. There is no additional benefit to the institution or a student interested in anything other than gpa inflation.

For people who were concerned about college sports becoming separate from the university, like a G League team on campus, this is worse. I'd rather have a loose association of kids who get paid as opposed to a system that eviscerates its own educational message to comply with the false idol of amateur student athleticism.

There's a Business Insider article that went into great detail explaining how the Frat boys at UNC in essence saved UNC athletics. The 2 groups most disproportionately taking these fake classes were athletes, and frat boys. Wainstein specifically called it out in his report, said frat boys said the classes were well known on campus among frats, and Wainstein believed they used them to keep their GPA's up because in order to keep their campus charter, Frats have to keep a certain GPA. Lots of people thought that was a huge issue for UNC as they would obviously also conclude that's why the athletes were in the classes and the NCAA would nail them.

The NCAA went the other way and said if word of mouth got frats into those classes, it probably also got athletes so there's no proof the AD steered them. The frats are non athletes so if they were in the classes in high numbers it proves it's not extra benefits.

So in esssence because the culture of cheating was not just in the athletics department, they got away with it.

Ehhh, I don't think UNC kept those classes active because they were concerned about the eligibility of fratstars.

The classes were clearly designed as fakes to inflate GPA. I find it laughable that UNC would contend they were concerned with inflating the GPA of anyone but athletes. That serves no other purpose.

They were partly independent study classes with the requirement to show 2x per semester.

They were created for the AD. Before this I barfed everything someone would remind me of their first public uni in the us status....now...bleh.

Duke gets a lot of flack and rightfully so, but UNC is just dirty dirty dirty.

Jefe wrote:

Is there a better indicator of where amateur athletics is than spending 18 million dollars to avoid NCAA sanctions for fake classes offered to athletes and using the defense that the fake classes weren't just for athletes?

Remember that it is wrong, WRONG, for athletes to profit from their own likeness. We can't pull money away from where it is needed, defending academic fraud.

Meanwhile, NC State:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/coll ... 77026.html" target="_blank

Braxton Beverly never imagined going to class could get him in trouble with the NCAA.

But after starting classes at Ohio State in May and transferring to N.C. State in July, the freshman guard will have to sit out the upcoming college basketball season.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... fbi-probe/" target="_blank

Talks about Braxton here and good dig at Larry scott

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Russ Smith wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Here's a serious take.

The glaring flaw in NCAA logic is that fake classes may be open to all, but they only benefit athletes trying to retain eligibility by any means necessary. A student attempting to develop an actual academic skill set has no use for a sham class that does nothing to educate. The university itself derives no benefit from a bs class.

Just because it wasn't limited to only athletes doesn't change the fact that the only reason for its existence was athletes. There is no additional benefit to the institution or a student interested in anything other than gpa inflation.

For people who were concerned about college sports becoming separate from the university, like a G League team on campus, this is worse. I'd rather have a loose association of kids who get paid as opposed to a system that eviscerates its own educational message to comply with the false idol of amateur student athleticism.

There's a Business Insider article that went into great detail explaining how the Frat boys at UNC in essence saved UNC athletics. The 2 groups most disproportionately taking these fake classes were athletes, and frat boys. Wainstein specifically called it out in his report, said frat boys said the classes were well known on campus among frats, and Wainstein believed they used them to keep their GPA's up because in order to keep their campus charter, Frats have to keep a certain GPA. Lots of people thought that was a huge issue for UNC as they would obviously also conclude that's why the athletes were in the classes and the NCAA would nail them.

The NCAA went the other way and said if word of mouth got frats into those classes, it probably also got athletes so there's no proof the AD steered them. The frats are non athletes so if they were in the classes in high numbers it proves it's not extra benefits.

So in esssence because the culture of cheating was not just in the athletics department, they got away with it.

Ehhh, I don't think UNC kept those classes active because they were concerned about the eligibility of fratstars.

The classes were clearly designed as fakes to inflate GPA. I find it laughable that UNC would contend they were concerned with inflating the GPA of anyone but athletes. That serves no other purpose.

UNC didn't argue that the NCAA said that the way they define extra benefits, they couldn't cite UNC for that because all these non athletes were in these classes too, and in particularly the frats were abusing the classes too.

It's a horrendous argument but apparently Wainstein citing that in his report was a very big deal to the NCAA because it proved to them that these classes were well known and therefore they couldn't claim the athletic department was steering athletes into the classes.

Just preposterous, even the NCAA said they didn't like the constantly changing story they got from UNC, that they didn't trust some of the reports they got from UNC, so they basically said we know they cheated but we can't prove it was cheating.

I still cannot believe that a gigantic underachiever like Larry Scott is the first Power 5 commissioner to make $4 million a year.

Pac-12 presidents are some serious rubber-stampers.

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0 ... 48335428-4" target="_blank

Joel Berry begins the title defense by breaking his hand slamming it after losing a video game.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Meanwhile, NC State:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/coll ... 77026.html" target="_blank

Braxton Beverly never imagined going to class could get him in trouble with the NCAA.

But after starting classes at Ohio State in May and transferring to N.C. State in July, the freshman guard will have to sit out the upcoming college basketball season.

Cameron Johnson torn meniscus in his left knee Monday during practice. Needs surgery and could be done for the season

Jefe wrote:Cameron Johnson torn meniscus in his left knee Monday during practice. Needs surgery and could be done for the season

USA Today is saying 4-6 weeks. Berry is back tonight.

Upset alert, UNC down 10 to Wofford and Wofford is looking good.

And this is Cameron Johnson's UNC debut. Obviously not helping them much.

Wofford finishes them off

I had no idea that Wofford was the Terriers. Now that's some shit right there.

Wow, UNC crapped the bed at home big time.

Wofford just looked better. They didn't win that by accident.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Wofford just looked better. They didn't win that by accident.

I watched the second half & Wofford should/could have beaten them by 10 at home. Couple of non-calls & lucky plays that kept it as close as it was. UNC was super flat. Can happen to any team.

Fuck unc

Bear Down Vegas wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Wofford just looked better. They didn't win that by accident.

I watched the second half & Wofford should/could have beaten them by 10 at home. Couple of non-calls & lucky plays that kept it as close as it was. UNC was super flat. Can happen to any team.

I was watching too. UNC got a bit of home cooking in reffing, which backfired when they had to eat up fouls at the end just to get Wofford to the line. Before the intentional fouling started, UNC was +12 in freethrows.

Wofford took a couple of bad shots on short possessions under 5 minutes that hurt or they would have probably won by double digits.

CalStateTempe wrote:Fuck unc

Simply Woeful against Wofford

Talk about ESPN coaching poll bias... how do you justify dropping UNC one spot in the polls after getting drilled by 20 at home by an unranked team (Louisville)?

Because Louisville is a great program and one of the media darlings that is now coming back to the fold like the prodigal son. Can't hold that against unc.

Something that caught my eye recently... the commonalities in roster and the difference in preseason projection for Arizona and UNC.

UNC lost five of their six best players, returning only a reliable center and a handful of former top 100 recruits who saw limited action. They bring in the number 9 recruiting class headlined by Cole Anthony (#4) and Armando Bacot (#27). They also add two impact grad transfers from crummy conferences.

Arizona lost four of its top five players, returning a reliable center and a handful of former top 100 recruits who saw mid-level action. They bring in the number 6 recruiting class headlined by Nico Mannion (#9), Josh Green (#13), and Zeke Nnaji (#40). They also add two impact grad transfers from crummy conferences.

UNC is projected between 5 - 15 while Arizona is projected between 15 - 40.

I'd argue that Arizona returns better players as I'd rate Chase Jeter > Garrison Brooks (returning impact players) and Dylan Smith / Doutrive / Lee as better than the group of Brandon Robinson / Leaky Black / Sterling Manley (bench returners).

Arizona's recruiting class is higher rated and for good reason. While I'll give Cole Anthony the slight nod over Nico Mannion, the only other impact freshman at UNC is Armando Bacot a five star center. Bacot played at IMG with Josh Green and was the clear third wheel on that team which included Villanova freshman PF Jeremiah Robinson Earl. Bacot will bang for rebounds and work at defense, but he's lacks the offensive polish and athleticism that would make him a high impact player this season. Arizona, on the other hand, features five star Josh Green and skilled four star PF Zeke Nnaji. While two is of course better than one, a deeper look is that Green has the passing, length, and athleticism to be an immediate impact player on the wing, while Nnaji has the height, strength, and skill to be featured among a deep Wildcat frontcourt. Arizona's recruiting class is a good fit for our needs and should outperform the UNC group as a whole.

The grad transfers are where UNC has the advantage, largely owing to their addition of Christian Keeling. The 6'4" SG from Charleston Southern can flat out score and he's shown an ability to do so against high level competition - avg'ing 18ppg in 8 games against high majors. I've got a firm belief that he'll be a good complimentary scorer to Cole Anthony. While Arizona hopes that Max Hazzard's diminutive height doesn't hold him back this season or that Doutrive or Smith's shooting and defense gain consistency, UNC has a solid two-guard pegged to start. Keeling also posted excellent rebounding and defensive numbers, though whether that will travel to the ACC is an open question.

On the whole, you could look at these two teams and not see a lot of space between them. Both feature lauded freshman point guard, reliable returning big man, added offense from a couple of grad transfers, and back-up from some former bit players who will need to step into larger roles. NBC recently ranked UNC and Arizona 14th and 16th, respectively, and I think that's appropriate. But to see a larger disparity (like 10th vs 37th via Andy Katz) or a dismissal of Arizona's opportunity to meet or outperform that expectation feels short sighted.

Hey everyone read the above and look at the preseason AP and be mad with me

Easy to prove on the floor and it’s coming soon. Keep building that chip on the shoulder