Bear Down Wildcats

wrist

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... llege-2023

Brooks to UW, if you missed it in the other thread.

Jeff Goodman just tweeted it.

dmjcat wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:20 pm wrist

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... llege-2023

“I have had an injury and may need surgery. I will try to cure it this summer,” Azuolas told Lithuanian journalist Marius Milasius.

Doesn't seem to jive with this:

It was concluded that the situation requires an immediate solution.

Meaning it could go past this:

If his wrist requires surgery it may cause him to miss the start of the 2022-23 season.

dmjcat wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:20 pm wrist

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... llege-2023

Better than lower body. I always worry exponentially more about foot, ankle, knee, particularly with bigs.

Not terribly concerned about losing out on Brooks. He's a heck of an athlete and has nice length, but he never developed the strength and nose for contact to be a 4 or the passing, ball handling, and outside shooting to be a 3.

He would have been best as a utility player here, inserted to play against 4 guard line-ups. If we get Grandison I think that's the better fit.

Mom responds on FB:

Valentina Tubelienė
everything will be fine with him, there is nothing tragic

Going to be a real bummer if we are essentially out 4 starters

azcat49 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:19 pm Going to be a real bummer if we are essentially out 4 starters

Kriisa and Pelle are projected starters along with AT.

EastCoastCat wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:28 pm

azcat49 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:19 pm Going to be a real bummer if we are essentially out 4 starters

Kriisa and Pelle are projected starters along with AT.

They mean if we lose Benn, Terry, Koloko... and then Zu to injury. Four starters from last season.

Hopefully this is cleared up quickly. Really really bummed about the development opportunity that Zu should have had this offseason though. Much like Pelle last offseason.

Merkin wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:14 pm Mom responds on FB:

Valentina Tubelienė
everything will be fine with him, there is nothing tragic

Nothing tragic? This lady does not know hardcore sports fans.

It's borderline King Lear when a coach divides his playing time wrong. Sub a player on a hot streak and:

"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a witless coach!"

I'm talking myself into former Auburn and Tennessee guard Justin Powell...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gLcaPTF07U

Motion shooter, nice passer, can attack off the bounce, high BBIQ, good size for the wing - had a serious concussion the ended his season early at Auburn, didn't fit with Rick Barnes at Tennessee.

Wonder if we're interested in him.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:00 pm I'm talking myself into former Auburn and Tennessee guard Justin Powell...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gLcaPTF07U

Motion shooter, nice passer, can attack off the bounce, high BBIQ, good size for the wing - had a serious concussion the ended his season early at Auburn, didn't fit with Rick Barnes at Tennessee.

Wonder if we're interested in him.

from what I had heard, his dad is a nightmare - I think he's been to like 6 schools in 6 years or something to that effect. the Powell from Auburn is definitely a high major rotational guy, just feels like there's a lot of question marks there given his lack of PT this past year, but at this point in the off-season...there are worse routes to take I guess. bleh

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:26 pm

dmjcat wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:20 pm wrist

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... llege-2023

Better than lower body. I always worry exponentially more about foot, ankle, knee, particularly with bigs.

Could it be his left wrist? If so, wouldn't this be a great time to learn to dribble/go right?

goslingswagg wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:32 pm

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 3:00 pm I'm talking myself into former Auburn and Tennessee guard Justin Powell...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gLcaPTF07U

Motion shooter, nice passer, can attack off the bounce, high BBIQ, good size for the wing - had a serious concussion the ended his season early at Auburn, didn't fit with Rick Barnes at Tennessee.

Wonder if we're interested in him.

from what I had heard, his dad is a nightmare - I think he's been to like 6 schools in 6 years or something to that effect. the Powell from Auburn is definitely a high major rotational guy, just feels like there's a lot of question marks there given his lack of PT this past year, but at this point in the off-season...there are worse routes to take I guess. bleh

I was wondering what the story was on his transferring around - I went so far as to watch an interview with him and he seems like an intelligent and conscientious kid. Bummer about his dad.

To the PT question, even Powell from early-Tenn is a high major rotation player. He hung 11 / 4 / 1 on Arizona in 26min of play. And yes, this is me recognizing that the barrel is mostly empty at this point.

We need someone who can consistently make 3s.
Rinse, repeat 150 times.

Anyone know when we might hear about Ramey, Henderson, or Grandison?

Are we talking days? A week? 2 weeks? A month?

This is not good for my anxiety.

Postmaster wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:38 pm We need someone who can consistently make 3s.
Rinse, repeat 150 times.

Ramey and Grandison are each exceptional spot-up shooters - need one or both (hopefully Ramey and then anything extra would be gravy)

YoDeFoe wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:50 am

Postmaster wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:38 pm We need someone who can consistently make 3s.
Rinse, repeat 150 times.

Ramey and Grandison are each exceptional spot-up shooters - need one or both (hopefully Ramey and then anything extra would be gravy)

I wouldn't say totally gravy, as I'm still not sold on Borcavinin's readiness. If he's not a rotation guy, Ramey would make 4 perimeter players.

The upside of Ramey is he's experienced, versatile and absolutely a plug and play guy who you can expect 30 mpg out of every day. He fits with every lineup and look you want, so you can just put him out there and let him play.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:12 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:50 am

Postmaster wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:38 pm We need someone who can consistently make 3s.
Rinse, repeat 150 times.

Ramey and Grandison are each exceptional spot-up shooters - need one or both (hopefully Ramey and then anything extra would be gravy)

I wouldn't say totally gravy, as I'm still not sold on Borcavinin's readiness. If he's not a rotation guy, Ramey would make 4 perimeter players.

The upside of Ramey is he's experienced, versatile and absolutely a plug and play guy who you can expect 30 mpg out of every day. He fits with every lineup and look you want, so you can just put him out there and let him play.

Choo says the staff believes Boro is ready, so I'm going to trust the staff. Personally I think he's a certified bucket getter - his handle and shooting stroke are nice for his size. How well he can defend is a big question mark for me.

YoDeFoe wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:45 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:12 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:50 am

Postmaster wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:38 pm We need someone who can consistently make 3s.
Rinse, repeat 150 times.

Ramey and Grandison are each exceptional spot-up shooters - need one or both (hopefully Ramey and then anything extra would be gravy)

I wouldn't say totally gravy, as I'm still not sold on Borcavinin's readiness. If he's not a rotation guy, Ramey would make 4 perimeter players.

The upside of Ramey is he's experienced, versatile and absolutely a plug and play guy who you can expect 30 mpg out of every day. He fits with every lineup and look you want, so you can just put him out there and let him play.

Choo says the staff believes Boro is ready, so I'm going to trust the staff. Personally I think he's a certified bucket getter - his handle and shooting stroke are nice for his size. How well he can defend is a big question mark for me.

just my opinion but I can get behind Boro as the 9th guy in the rotation but 8th is very risky. we need 10 (real) scholarship players, no offense to Tautvilas, for scrimmaging/practice purposes, and having him as the 8th man means we would absolutely be relying on him year 1, which is naive, regardless of how confident the staff is in him. need Ramey + one more, would be happy with Henderson or Grandison in that role.

YoDeFoe wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:45 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 9:12 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:50 am

Postmaster wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 9:38 pm We need someone who can consistently make 3s.
Rinse, repeat 150 times.

Ramey and Grandison are each exceptional spot-up shooters - need one or both (hopefully Ramey and then anything extra would be gravy)

I wouldn't say totally gravy, as I'm still not sold on Borcavinin's readiness. If he's not a rotation guy, Ramey would make 4 perimeter players.

The upside of Ramey is he's experienced, versatile and absolutely a plug and play guy who you can expect 30 mpg out of every day. He fits with every lineup and look you want, so you can just put him out there and let him play.

Choo says the staff believes Boro is ready, so I'm going to trust the staff. Personally I think he's a certified bucket getter - his handle and shooting stroke are nice for his size. How well he can defend is a big question mark for me.

Yeah, I've acknowledged that Lloyd doesn't seem to recognize my genius take on Borocavinin. No idea why.

Jokes aside, Ballo did work out significantly better than I thought he would, so it's not like my track record is flawless.

I agree with your take that Borocavinin's O is ahead of his D. I just see him having meh athleticism and figure there's a learning curve on O too. As I've said before, I tend to think he could use a year of weights and food to come back as a stretch 4 where his skills will shine more than the 3. That's also a position where I think his middling speed and lift won't be a detriment like it could be at the 3.

Agreed and agreed, fellas

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

UCLA has arguably the best returning tandem in Tyger and Jaime and the best recruiting class with two five stars in Bailey and Bona (along with four star PG Dylan Andrews). However, no team in the conference lost more than UCLA in the departures of Johnny Juzang, Jules Bernard, Payton Watson, Cody Riley, and Miles Johnson. Those departures leave the Bruins very thin in depth. Behind a prospective starting five of Campbell / Singleton / Bailey / Jacquez / Bona (which itself features two freshmen) are utility wing Jaylen Clark, freshman PG Andrews, and two guys returning from ACL tears (Will McLendon at guard and Mac Etienne in the post).

That's three productive returning players, one guy in Clark who hasn't become much beyond an undersized garbage guy, and three freshmen, and two guys returning from knee surgery. Back-up PG will likely go to a four star freshman and any time that Tyger might miss would increase that load. And in the post, there is Jaquez and the still very raw Bona, and... nothing of note. No combo forward, no back-up PF, and no proven production at back-up C.

The only reason the UCLA fan base isn't losing its shit over the lack of real guys on this roster is either a) they're not paying attention or b) they're so deluded that they believe they deserve the top spot in the conference, roster be damned.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 4:25 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

UCLA has arguably the best returning tandem in Tyger and Jaime and the best recruiting class with two five stars in Bailey and Bona (along with four star PG Dylan Andrews). However, no team in the conference lost more than UCLA in the departures of Johnny Juzang, Jules Bernard, Payton Watson, Cody Riley, and Miles Johnson. Those departures leave the Bruins very thin in depth. Behind a prospective starting five of Campbell / Singleton / Bailey / Jacquez / Bona (which itself features two freshmen) are utility wing Jaylen Clark, freshman PG Andrews, and two guys returning from ACL tears (Will McLendon at guard and Mac Etienne in the post).

That's three productive returning players, one guy in Clark who hasn't become much beyond an undersized garbage guy, and three freshmen, and two guys returning from knee surgery. Back-up PG will likely go to a four star freshman and any time that Tyger might miss would increase that load. And in the post, there is Jaquez and the still very raw Bona, and... nothing of note. No combo forward, no back-up PF, and no proven production at back-up C.

The only reason the UCLA fan base isn't losing its shit over the lack of real guys on this roster is either a) they're not paying attention or b) they're so deluded that they believe they deserve the top spot in the conference, roster be damned.

Excellent breakdown, YDF. I would add to your ucla remarks that their coach has not yet shown he can win when expectations are high, as they were last season for the bruins. They were expected to reach the precise thresholds (if not loftier ones) that we reached, and we weren't even ranked to begin the season. Jaquez and Campbell are very good college players, and they'll be tough again.

I think the Pac is wide open next season.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

Oregon... this is going to be a redux of last season.

They're on their fourth point guard in as many years, bringing in Keeshawn Barthelemy from Colorado to run the point this season. Barthelemy is an okay player - low turnover rate but too often a hot and cold scorer. He ultimately lost his starting job at the end of the season to a three star freshman and split back-up minutes with KJ Simpson.

Oregon also brings in fifth year transfer combo guard Jermaine Couisnard who has never posted a season with a >100 ORtg. His shooting splits last season were 40 / 32 / 68 averaging three turnovers a game in 25min/g of play. Duck fans should hope he never touches the ball on offense.

Will Richardson returns after showing no growth over the last two seasons despite ample opportunity to become the team leader. He's a good player but a complimentary one. Quincy Guerrier returns to act as if he's a small forward despite clearly doing his best work in the paint (he took 154 threes last season at a 34% clip - not great!). There are three former five star centers in line for post minutes (Dante, Bittle, and Ware) - this might be the season that Altman plays goes big, as Ware and Bittle will hope to play some at the four (Ware especially).

Practically the opposite of UCLA, Oregon has a lot of post depth with little-to-no ball handling and leadership. There are a ton of question marks for that team.

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:23 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

Oregon... this is going to be a redux of last season.

They're on their fourth point guard in as many years, bringing in Keeshawn Barthelemy from Colorado to run the point this season. Barthelemy is an okay player - low turnover rate but too often a hot and cold scorer. He ultimately lost his starting job at the end of the season to a three star freshman and split back-up minutes with KJ Simpson.

Oregon also brings in fifth year transfer combo guard Jermaine Couisnard who has never posted a season with a >100 ORtg. His shooting splits last season were 40 / 32 / 68 averaging three turnovers a game in 25min/g of play. Duck fans should hope he never touches the ball on offense.

Will Richardson returns after showing no growth over the last two seasons despite ample opportunity to become the team leader. He's a good player but a complimentary one. Quincy Guerrier returns to act as if he's a small forward despite clearly doing his best work in the paint (he took 154 threes last season at a 34% clip - not great!). There are three former five star centers in line for post minutes (Dante, Bittle, and Ware) - this might be the season that Altman plays goes big, as Ware and Bittle will hope to play some at the four (Ware especially).

Practically the opposite of UCLA, Oregon has a lot of post depth with little-to-no ball handling and leadership. There are a ton of question marks for that team.

Altman's player recruitment decisions the last couple years have been puzzling to say the least. Cousinard and Barthelemy were very odd transfer targets - both just not very good players that will likely play a lot of minutes for the Ducks. Still think they should be a tournament team with the returning talent + Ware (who looks pretty legit unfortunately), but they certainly don't scare me like they used to.

goslingswagg wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:50 pm

YoDeFoe wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:23 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

Oregon... this is going to be a redux of last season.

They're on their fourth point guard in as many years, bringing in Keeshawn Barthelemy from Colorado to run the point this season. Barthelemy is an okay player - low turnover rate but too often a hot and cold scorer. He ultimately lost his starting job at the end of the season to a three star freshman and split back-up minutes with KJ Simpson.

Oregon also brings in fifth year transfer combo guard Jermaine Couisnard who has never posted a season with a >100 ORtg. His shooting splits last season were 40 / 32 / 68 averaging three turnovers a game in 25min/g of play. Duck fans should hope he never touches the ball on offense.

Will Richardson returns after showing no growth over the last two seasons despite ample opportunity to become the team leader. He's a good player but a complimentary one. Quincy Guerrier returns to act as if he's a small forward despite clearly doing his best work in the paint (he took 154 threes last season at a 34% clip - not great!). There are three former five star centers in line for post minutes (Dante, Bittle, and Ware) - this might be the season that Altman plays goes big, as Ware and Bittle will hope to play some at the four (Ware especially).

Practically the opposite of UCLA, Oregon has a lot of post depth with little-to-no ball handling and leadership. There are a ton of question marks for that team.

Altman's player recruitment decisions the last couple years have been puzzling to say the least. Cousinard and Barthelemy were very odd transfer targets - both just not very good players that will likely play a lot of minutes for the Ducks. Still think they should be a tournament team with the returning talent + Ware (who looks pretty legit unfortunately), but they certainly don't scare me like they used to.

Altman was a master of the transfers…which every team is now

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

He's concerned about our perimeter defense partially because Mathurin is gone? Did I read that right?

ChooChooCat wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:17 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

He's concerned about our perimeter defense partially because Mathurin is gone? Did I read that right?

He's not the best at these projections. Think it just gives us something to react to.

I think USC could be better than Oregon next season.

ChooChooCat wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:17 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

He's concerned about our perimeter defense partially because Mathurin is gone? Did I read that right?

Yeah I laughed at that, especially now that it's Kerr + Ramey + Larsson. We're going to be a different defensive team because we don't have Koloko, but we're not at all taking a step back in perimeter defense.

The Athletic on best transfer commits and their fit

9. Courtney Ramey | 6-3 guard | graduate | Transferred from Texas to Arizona

The Scout: Ramey is just an easy fit into any backcourt as an absolutely terrific 3-and-D player who profiles exceedingly well next to a creative guard. Ramey locked up some of the Big 12’s best players this season for Texas, including potential Kansas lottery pick Ochai Agbaji. On top of that, he has hit 37 percent of his 3s over the course of his time in college, and has shown the occasional ability to play some point because he’s a reliable decision-maker (even if he’s not necessarily the most natural playmaker or ballhandler). A third-team All-Big 12 selection in 2021, Ramey isn’t officially in the portal yet, but he has announced through his father’s Twitter account that he’ll be entering the 2022 NBA Draft as well as exploring his transfer options. If that’s the case, we would anticipate him being highly sought after as a solid power conference starter who can reliably take tough assignments and make shots. He’s the kind of scalable player to any situation who helps teams win games.

The Fit: This is a player Arizona would have loved to have had in its NCAA Tournament loss to Houston. Ramey is a guy who will not back down against anyone and would have been able to scrap with the Coogs. He’ll fit nicely alongside Kerr Kriisa as a secondary handler. Arizona’s tempo and continuity ball-screen offense should help bring the best out of Ramey. The Wildcats really needed a startable guard after losing both Dalen Terry and Bennedict Mathurin, and Ramey was one of the best options out there in the portal for what they need.

YoDeFoe wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:51 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:17 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 2:44 pm https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2022/06/13 ... fer-moves/

He's concerned about our perimeter defense partially because Mathurin is gone? Did I read that right?

Yeah I laughed at that, especially now that it's Kerr + Ramey + Larsson. We're going to be a different defensive team because we don't have Koloko, but we're not at all taking a step back in perimeter defense.

There are plenty of concerns due to Mathurin being gone, but perimeter defense isn’t one of them lol. I swear Wilner needs his hand held through his “analysis.”

Just looking over some Synergy Sports stats for the guys returning... there's some interesting stuff here.

Spot-up shooting
* Larsson - GOOD - not great on the catch and shoot but very good when attacking the basket from kick out
* Kriisa - VERY GOOD - by far more effective on the no-dribble jumper than taking a dribble jumper
* Bal - EXCELLENT - in limited attempts
* Henderson - GOOD - Excellent on no-dribble jumpers, Very good on dribble jumpers, poor when attacking off the kick out
* Ramey - EXCELLENT - Excellent on no-dribble jumpers, poor on dribble jumpers

There's some really clearly defined strengths here! And enough variety to attack in a variety of ways... Ramey and Kriisa are deadly with their feet set (and should only be taking those shots), Henderson should be hunting threes instead of attacking off the dribble on kick outs, while Larsson should often attack off the dribble on kick outs (and get better on his catch and shoot threes).

Similarly, on pick and roll ball handling, there are some key strengths and weaknesses
* Larsson - Excellent attacking when single covered
* Henderson - Excellent attacking when single covered
* Kriisa - Excellent when passing once the defense commits
* Ramey - Excellent when passing once the defense commits

So Larsson and Henderson will be our guys getting downhill off of picks or ball screens, putting pressure on the rim or hitting dribble jumpers against drop coverage. Interestingly - both Benn and Dalen really struggled attacking off of single covered picks and both preferred passing out of the pick and roll (and both did so with exceptional efficiency). If you want to see more "individual" bucket getting - we've got those guys in Larsson and Henderson. Previously it was just Larsson.

Ramey and Kerr both look superb in breaking down the defense off the pick and finding the weakness in the defense for the pass out and easy bucket. Ramey is a clear upgrade in this regard over Kier (who was Average to Below Average passing out of the PnR).

Additionally, Henderson and Larsson are both excellent scoring off of cuts - Henderson should be able to replace Benn's production on basket cuts (Terry was a non-factor). Tubelis and Ballo are also excellent scoring off of cuts.

Ballo, FWIW, is an excellent scorer as the roll man - far better than Koloko who was more prone to turnovers when rolling to the basket. Tubelis is an oddly poor roll man and needs to seriously work on it because he has all of the physical tools to be excellent there - I have a sneaking feeling its his lack of quick burst and standing explosiveness that causes him trouble there, where he is much more powerful and effective with a running start.

Did tubelis play the 5 primary when he was a freshman?

Postmaster wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:23 am Did tubelis play the 5 primary when he was a freshman?

He played next to Jordan Brown and Koloko like 80% of the time, sometimes playing in a small line-up with Terry and Benn at the forward spots.

One thing the Synergy Stats really underscore for me: Pelle Larsson needs to stop with the PG act and put his scoring guard hat back on.

As a prospect he was billed as a guy who relentlessly attacked the rim, worked on his jumper a ton to develop his range, then went to Utah and showed that range but also was asked to be the PG. So now it feels like he's trying to be all of these things at once, especially being deferential in passing up scoring opportunities to set up his teammates. But his best attribute on offense is his ability to get buckets.

I really really really hope that Lloyd tells Larsson to go get 12 or 14 attempts a night. He's a good teammate in his willingness to move the ball but he's best as a play finisher and we need him in that role next season with both Terry and especially Mathurin gone.

YoDeFoe wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:42 am One thing the Synergy Stats really underscore for me: Pelle Larsson needs to stop with the PG act and put his scoring guard hat back on.

As a prospect he was billed as a guy who relentlessly attacked the rim, worked on his jumper a ton to develop his range, then went to Utah and showed that range but also was asked to be the PG. So now it feels like he's trying to be all of these things at once, especially being deferential in passing up scoring opportunities to set up his teammates. But his best attribute on offense is his ability to get buckets.

I really really really hope that Lloyd tells Larsson to go get 12 or 14 attempts a night. He's a good teammate in his willingness to move the ball but he's best as a play finisher and we need him in that role next season with both Terry and especially Mathurin gone.

I haven't looked at what stats you are referring to but I really don't recall too many times Pelle "acted" like a PG. On offense didn't he mostly spot up shoot with a few drives mixed in?

Again, my memory might be faulty. I guess when Kriisa was out or if we were in foul trouble he could have done some part-time "point guarding" but since we had so many offensive options last year isn't his lack of attempts last year kind of warranted?

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:48 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:42 am One thing the Synergy Stats really underscore for me: Pelle Larsson needs to stop with the PG act and put his scoring guard hat back on.

As a prospect he was billed as a guy who relentlessly attacked the rim, worked on his jumper a ton to develop his range, then went to Utah and showed that range but also was asked to be the PG. So now it feels like he's trying to be all of these things at once, especially being deferential in passing up scoring opportunities to set up his teammates. But his best attribute on offense is his ability to get buckets.

I really really really hope that Lloyd tells Larsson to go get 12 or 14 attempts a night. He's a good teammate in his willingness to move the ball but he's best as a play finisher and we need him in that role next season with both Terry and especially Mathurin gone.

I haven't looked at what stats you are referring to but I really don't recall too many times Pelle "acted" like a PG. On offense didn't he mostly spot up shoot with a few drives mixed in?

Again, my memory might be faulty. I guess when Kriisa was out or if we were in foul trouble he could have done some part-time "point guarding" but since we had so many offensive options last year isn't his lack of attempts last year kind of warranted?

I think Larsson has a habit of passing up his own shot in order to make the extra pass - often, that is one pass too many and results in less attempts for him and more turnovers. Between being shoehorned into the PG role at Utah and then joining the team here a bit late due to the foot injury, Larsson has tried to form himself into too much of a complimentary player. He's a very efficient play finisher and should allow himself to be that for Arizona next season.

His attempts last season below:

3PA: 90 (36% FG%)
2PA: 89 (60% FG%)
FTA: 75 (81% FG%)

Of note: 80% of those 2 point attempts were at the rim, so factoring in those plus the free throws you see he did most of his scoring driving to the rim.

I'm fine with Larsson taking 4-5 threes a game, but I want him taking 7-8 2 point attempts a game as well and most of those should be attempts at the rim (as they were last season). And because he's so good at getting to the rim he was also our most active free throw shooter adjusted for volume - good for a 42% free throw rate, which you love to see on a guard who hits them at 81%.

So yeah: I don't mean that he played the PG position for Arizona, just that in my eyes he passed up scoring opportunities too often. I think the data showing how efficient he has been at attacking the rim supports my hopes that he pass less, drive more, and hopefully lead the team in attempts along with Zu.

Larsson is first team PAC 12 next year. If you disagree with me you are wrong.

Choo, where have you been? I've been saying this for the longest. You could look at his game tape at Utah and see this guy had NBA potential. I've always compared him to Luke Kennard/Casey Jacobsen, although he's more athletic than those two. When he's healthy he's got a nice burst in transition. He's not quite as polished yet which is why I expect a jump next year.

We need a few players to develop over the summer: Bal, Ballo, Ballest (just kidding), Kriisa as well. If everyone improves we should be able to beat the Pac 12 projections just like last year. I'm hoping that Veesar has a Nnaji/Lauri type year, but stays for two.

YoDeFoe wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:25 am

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:48 am

YoDeFoe wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:42 am One thing the Synergy Stats really underscore for me: Pelle Larsson needs to stop with the PG act and put his scoring guard hat back on.

As a prospect he was billed as a guy who relentlessly attacked the rim, worked on his jumper a ton to develop his range, then went to Utah and showed that range but also was asked to be the PG. So now it feels like he's trying to be all of these things at once, especially being deferential in passing up scoring opportunities to set up his teammates. But his best attribute on offense is his ability to get buckets.

I really really really hope that Lloyd tells Larsson to go get 12 or 14 attempts a night. He's a good teammate in his willingness to move the ball but he's best as a play finisher and we need him in that role next season with both Terry and especially Mathurin gone.

I haven't looked at what stats you are referring to but I really don't recall too many times Pelle "acted" like a PG. On offense didn't he mostly spot up shoot with a few drives mixed in?

Again, my memory might be faulty. I guess when Kriisa was out or if we were in foul trouble he could have done some part-time "point guarding" but since we had so many offensive options last year isn't his lack of attempts last year kind of warranted?

I think Larsson has a habit of passing up his own shot in order to make the extra pass - often, that is one pass too many and results in less attempts for him and more turnovers. Between being shoehorned into the PG role at Utah and then joining the team here a bit late due to the foot injury, Larsson has tried to form himself into too much of a complimentary player. He's a very efficient play finisher and should allow himself to be that for Arizona next season.

His attempts last season below:

3PA: 90 (36% FG%)
2PA: 89 (60% FG%)
FTA: 75 (81% FG%)

Of note: 80% of those 2 point attempts were at the rim, so factoring in those plus the free throws you see he did most of his scoring driving to the rim.

I'm fine with Larsson taking 4-5 threes a game, but I want him taking 7-8 2 point attempts a game as well and most of those should be attempts at the rim (as they were last season). And because he's so good at getting to the rim he was also our most active free throw shooter adjusted for volume - good for a 42% free throw rate, which you love to see on a guard who hits them at 81%.

So yeah: I don't mean that he played the PG position for Arizona, just that in my eyes he passed up scoring opportunities too often. I think the data showing how efficient he has been at attacking the rim supports my hopes that he pass less, drive more, and hopefully lead the team in attempts along with Zu.

Got your point - thanks.

My point was that last year with so many other offensive weapons/options I think it was less about passing up scoring options and more about there were not as many shots available.

This year is a whole other story and I agree he should increase his shot production. Would love to see him incorporate a little mid-range pull up to compliment his 3 pt threat and drives to the hoop.

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:00 pm
Got your point - thanks.

My point was that last year with so many other offensive weapons/options I think it was less about passing up scoring options and more about there were not as many shots available.

This year is a whole other story and I agree he should increase his shot production. Would love to see him incorporate a little mid-range pull up to compliment his 3 pt threat and drives to the hoop.

Yeah I agree to an extent - we had guys who got buckets, but Larsson uniquely was the best we had from our guards/wings at scoring from the pick and roll and putting pressure on the rim. For all of Benn's gifts, he was a poor isolation scorer and was barely average driving to the rim off a pick. Lloyd did a lot within the offense to make sure he put Benn into his ideal scoring positions.

When we as a fanbase complain about guys not being able to get their own bucket last season, I think that's due to having our three ball handlers in Kerr, Dalen, and Benn who didn't score on drives to the rim off the pick. They just weren't any good at it.

So to have Pelle out there also trying to create for others - we had that already, what we needed was a guy to get to the rack and provide downhill pressure on the rim. Because we had very little of that from our main guys.

One last point here*:

The "it's good to have guys in the offense who attack the basket out of the pick and roll" point that I'm making - it's a really important aspect of the offense that the prior group never got good at (outside of Larsson). The 2020-21 Gonzaga team (with what I think of as Lloyd's peak offense) had Nembhard, Ayayi, and Kispert who were all excellent (like Larsson) in attacking the rim off the pick (plus Suggs who was good).

In a way, our offense can take a step forward by replacing Benn, Dalen, and Justin's PnR touches with Pelle, Cedric, and Courtney - as Pelle and Cedric are far better at attacking off the dribble than Benn and Dalen, while Courtney is a far better pick and roll distributor than Justin.

(*lies, I'll never shut up)

Yo - just not getting your obsession with attacking the rim. I mean we had a lot of players last year that did that. Zu, DT, Kier and Pelle did at times. CLo attacked the rim from the low post.

I think the main point it has to be within the flow of the offense, and the opportunities have to present itself. You just can’t attack the rim for the sake of attacking the rim.

CTL’s offense is about getting the best shot possible and that means passing with a purpose. Sometimes that means a couple of passes before a shot or it could be 7 or 8. That’s why our assists to made buckets was so lauded nationally last year. I don’t think our teams offensive philosophy will change that much even with the change in personnel.

EastCoastCat wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:49 pm Yo - just not getting your obsession with attacking the rim. I mean we had a lot of players last year that did that. Zu, DT, Kier and Pelle did at times. CLo attacked the rim from the low post.

I think the main point it has to be within the flow of the offense, and the opportunities have to present itself. You just can’t attack the rim for the sake of attacking the rim.

CTL’s offense is about getting the best shot possible and that means passing with a purpose. Sometimes that means a couple of passes before a shot or it could be 7 or 8. That’s why our assists to made buckets was so lauded nationally last year. I don’t think our teams offensive philosophy will change that much even with the change in personnel.

Without getting pedantic, being able to turn the corner on a ball screen and get to the rim is one of the most basic and effective ways to get a bucket. It wasn't that defenses were uniquely good at taking away good dribble drive opportunities from Kerr, Dalen, Benn, and Justin - the data shows that those guys simply were bad at converting them (shooting ~30% on those opportunities).

Our base offense was good, but without having the danger of driving opportunities the pick and roll becomes neutered and our offense can grind to a halt - with a lot of screen, pass, screen, pass, screen, pass, and then a bad jump shot.

Having both Larsson and Henderson who can hit both hit the jumper from behind the screen and attack the rim driving off of ball screens, while also having Kerr and Ramey who are excellent passing out of ball screens to the open man, will help us balance out our attack and create a more dynamic offense that is harder to game plan.

(To your point about having players who got to the rim last year: yes we did, they just did not effectively get to the rim out of our ball screen action and since that's half of the scoring punch of our base offense its important that we can make those plays. We'll still have guys similarly getting to the rim in transition, off cuts, putbacks, and postups).

You can lead a horse to water…just need to convert those opportunities is your point.

YoDeFoe wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:05 am

Postmaster wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:23 am Did tubelis play the 5 primary when he was a freshman?

He played next to Jordan Brown and Koloko like 80% of the time, sometimes playing in a small line-up with Terry and Benn at the forward spots.

Dang, I forgot all about Brown.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/06/18/n ... p-25-reset

Updated 6/17.