Bear Down Wildcats

TucsonClip wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 7:48 am

Hank of sb wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 7:46 am Tucson Clip:

The major issue is this scenario is ADO is your 7th man, and I no world is that good enough. Perhaps Aristode shows out and he's legit good. We still have a 7 man rotation which isn't good enough to support a FF worthy core.
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Starting five
6. Awaka
7.Aristode
8. Harvard guy
9. ADO.........................now known to having proved useful making FTs at game's end, & hopefully more experienced, to boot.

There's no world whereby Aristode doesn't beat out ADO, IMO.

Biggest team issue for me is Krivas' feet. Clickety clop. I assume our coach somehow knows our concerns and they are his, too. We need another center.

Then back to my original comment, we have a 7 man rotation. We saw it play our this year. ADO isn't good enough, and the staff clearly didn't trust him against good competition or better. Nelson is a reserve PG and isn't offering anything outside that archetype except for some spot up shooting on low volume, and he isn't helping on D.

Additionally, guys 6 and 7 are both coming off foot injuries, and one of them is a freshman.

That does not sound like a FF caliber bench.

You are right. I'm not disagreeing

But 7 is enough IF, and only if, Krivas' feet ore OK. For me, it's that simple. (For now, last year's preseason hype on Krivas was ridiculous.)

As for Aristode, look at it this way: Duke offered. If he had accepted, he'd be on Duke's roster right this second. I'm going with the idea that he's an NBA level, defensive specialist that will show out and then some.

I assume we probably will pick up one other player

Hank of sb wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 8:02 am I assume we probably will pick up one other player

I really want that to be a play-maker at the guard spot but I’m guessing Nelson satisfies that for Tommy. Hope he shocks us all by being not-ADO.

TucsonClip wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 7:48 am

Hank of sb wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 7:46 am Tucson Clip:

The major issue is this scenario is ADO is your 7th man, and I no world is that good enough. Perhaps Aristode shows out and he's legit good. We still have a 7 man rotation which isn't good enough to support a FF worthy core.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Starting five
6. Awaka
7.Aristode
8. Harvard guy
9. ADO.........................now known to having proved useful making FTs at game's end, & hopefully more experienced, to boot.

There's no world whereby Aristode doesn't beat out ADO, IMO.

Biggest team issue for me is Krivas' feet. Clickety clop. I assume our coach somehow knows our concerns and they are his, too. We need another center.

Then back to my original comment, we have a 7 man rotation. We saw it play our this year. ADO isn't good enough, and the staff clearly didn't trust him against good competition or better. Nelson is a reserve PG and isn't offering anything outside that archetype except for some spot up shooting on low volume, and he isn't helping on D.

Additionally, guys 6 and 7 are both coming off foot injuries, and one of them is a freshman.

That does not sound like a FF caliber bench.

Maybe we can ask LBJ for a couple more players. Seems as of today that we clearly need at least a legit combo guard capable of playing 20 min a game. Might need a 3/4 if Carter bails as well.

Hank of sb wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 8:02 am But 7 is enough IF, and only if, Krivas' feet ore OK. For me, it's that simple. (For now, last year's preseason hype on Krivas was ridiculous.)

Fwiw it wasn't and isn't his feet and the issue has been fixed. I think it is pretty safe to assume that he will be ok physically this season.

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 8:28 am

Hank of sb wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 8:02 am But 7 is enough IF, and only if, Krivas' feet ore OK. For me, it's that simple. (For now, last year's preseason hype on Krivas was ridiculous.)

Fwiw it wasn't and isn't his feet and the issue has been fixed. I think it is pretty safe to assume that he will be ok physically this season.

Glad to hear such. I'll take it to the bank now. However, Krivas' gait never has looked right to me. That said, he's plenty good enough if his feet are "fixed."

So that's all I need to hear today. (Appreciate the news.)

And as for a combo, I think we're 'ALL' in agreement. Lest we forget, TT is now gone. Krivas is back. Aristode is plenty decent. We got our two new studs. We'll get some other player.

This team sure looks to be a second weekend team (tourney), if not better in Tommy's 4th year.

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 6:57 am Based on what I have seen to date he is another ADO at a different position. He can be better in Tommy’s offensive scheme but his D is going to be a major problem. If he is a feel good story junk minutes only, fine, but anything more than that and we have another (and possibly 2 at the same time) ADO on our hands. Hopefully some folks have learned from last season.

ADO is a way better player than Nelson. Nelson basically brings two things, he's a really good shooter and he's willing to be the 9th man. There's not a lot of players who are willing to come in knowing they are barely gonna play.

ADO, Townsend and Conrad combined for 42 minutes in the Sweet 16 against the best team in the country, statistically one of the best teams of the last 20 years... And it was somewhat a competitive game.

Duke was basically the only team UA didn't have a realistic shot of beating and they started ADO and Townsend last year. You guys are vastly overrating how good CBB teams are. And how good you need to be to be one of the best.

SunnyAZ wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 9:33 am

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 6:57 am Based on what I have seen to date he is another ADO at a different position. He can be better in Tommy’s offensive scheme but his D is going to be a major problem. If he is a feel good story junk minutes only, fine, but anything more than that and we have another (and possibly 2 at the same time) ADO on our hands. Hopefully some folks have learned from last season.

ADO is a way better player than Nelson. Nelson basically brings two things, he's a really good shooter and he's willing to be the 9th man. There's not a lot of players who are willing to come in knowing they are barely gonna play.

That is very good to hear. ADO is also imo basically two things however: A really good shooter and the worst defensive player in the history of college basketball. An absolute liability. It wasn't all ADO (see: TT) but he cost Arizona a ton last season. He shouldn't be in an Arizona uniform unless he also is purely a junk minutes player like the walkons. When I was saying that Nelson was another ADO I was speaking to being not playable on account of defense (I didn't make that very clear), fwtiw.

Glad to see that Awaka just announced he'll be back next year.

VegasCatFan wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 11:40 am Glad to see that Awaka just announced he'll be back next year.

Happy to see it! With how little he played in second halves last season I was worried there would be an issue with him coming back.

Now just re-recruit Bryant and we are golden.

Chicat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 12:00 pm Happy to see it! With how little he played in second halves last season I was worried there would be an issue with him coming back.

Now just re-recruit Bryant and we are golden.

I'm sure Veesaar leaving helped that decision. Glad he's coming back.

C'mon CB, help us get back to that elusive FF.

84Cat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 11:56 am

VegasCatFan wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 11:40 am Glad to see that Awaka just announced he'll be back next year.

I'm really glad to have his toughness and offensive rebounding back. GOOD NEWS!!!

I don’t understand what makes people think players won’t improve some from year to year?

I think Tommy has a pretty good record of developing dudes

Yep, and don’t be surprised if you see Tobe add a little more to his offensive arsenal.

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 9:56 am

SunnyAZ wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 9:33 am

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 6:57 am Based on what I have seen to date he is another ADO at a different position. He can be better in Tommy’s offensive scheme but his D is going to be a major problem. If he is a feel good story junk minutes only, fine, but anything more than that and we have another (and possibly 2 at the same time) ADO on our hands. Hopefully some folks have learned from last season.

ADO is a way better player than Nelson. Nelson basically brings two things, he's a really good shooter and he's willing to be the 9th man. There's not a lot of players who are willing to come in knowing they are barely gonna play.

That is very good to hear. ADO is also imo basically two things however: A really good shooter and the worst defensive player in the history of college basketball. An absolute liability. It wasn't all ADO (see: TT) but he cost Arizona a ton last season. He shouldn't be in an Arizona uniform unless he also is purely a junk minutes player like the walkons. When I was saying that Nelson was another ADO I was speaking to being not playable on account of defense (I didn't make that very clear), fwtiw.

Exactly what do YOU know about Nelson's defense? Have some clips to show the rest of us? ADO was certainly a liability on defense but on offense he scored more that CB in less minutes. Not sure that qualifies for not being in an Arizona uniform.

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 6:57 am

TucsonClip wrote: Thu Apr 10, 2025 8:44 pm I will keep my thoughts a bit more tame here, as I went to war elsewhere. However, here was my scout on Nelson before he committed.

Games watched: @ Colorado, didnt need/want to watch more

I will keep this one short...

If the plan is to recruit a back up PG, then I guess he can work. He reminds me of a mixture between PJC and Conrad. Good in the PNR, but offers no shot creation for himself, he isn't a threat to get to the rim, paint and spray, draw fouls. He is a connector at PG, meaning he is going to get off the ball, keep continuity make the right read, push the ball ahead. Obviously, the numbers say he can connect from three, but he doesnt offer anything I would be looking for on ball, other than he has good vision and is a good passer.

Defensively, he is thin, a decent athletie, but isnt going to offer resistance on ball, and especially off ball help side. He is active, constantly moving (even on offense), and know where to be, can make the reads. The problem is he isnt long enough, athletic enough, or big enough provide much more than a thin body in the way.

This is a pass for me. We need someone more dynamic on the ball, and someone who can do a bit more defensively. The shooting is nice, but he isnt creating his own shot. Again, think Conrad/PJC here. Get off the ball, keep the ball moving, knows where to be on defense, but too small to offer any resistance.



Overall, my point was we need to go for it. I know we dont have a massive NIl warchest, and we likely burned through it all on Burries and Koa, and Tommy should receive credit for that 100%.

My point has been, the bench isnt good enough to support what is clearly a FF caliber core. I certainly do not trust ADO, felt we desperately needed a reserve CG in the mold of Justin Kier. Nelson is not that guy. Hes a PG. Apparently the staff is quite high on Aristode, and that is also fantastic. However, in my eyes we are back to a 7 man rotation with a razors edge margin for error.

Turns the ball over a ton and his PNR metrics aren’t great. Can put some of that on his teammates but the quality of competition was also not very strong. Defensive liability. Based on what I have seen to date he is another ADO at a different position. He can be better in Tommy’s offensive scheme but his D is going to be a major problem. If he is a feel good story junk minutes only, fine, but anything more than that and we have another (and possibly 2 at the same time) ADO on our hands. Hopefully some folks have learned from last season.

Also while its still early I am starting to get the vibe that all of the recent commitments dont really have all that much to do with Lloyd’s recruiting nor Arizona’s NIL. His presentation and track record matter but this all came to Arizona, I think, from about 10,000 feet above Lloyd. Good news is it likely buys Arizona 2-3 seasons which may be long enough to stay relevant until things settle NCAA - nation - wise.

Like, 23,000 ft? Or 6,000 ft? Where the clouds look gold and purple?

Alieberman wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 2:11 pm I don’t understand what makes people think players won’t improve some from year to year?

I think Tommy has a pretty good record of developing dudes

Can he get Tobe to grow 4 inches?
Can he get ADO to get rid of the Beavis and Butthead hair cut?
Tune in next season on Soap.

Soap is 1 of the most underrated sitcoms of all time!

Postmaster wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:57 pm Like, 23,000 ft? Or 6,000 ft? Where the clouds look gold and purple?

Yeah not sure on the altitude but it's starting to feel like none of these commitments would have happened without Clutch.

Alieberman wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 2:11 pm I don’t understand what makes people think players won’t improve some from year to year?

I think Tommy has a pretty good record of developing dudes

There's things that can be improved on of course, but ADO's physical limitations will always remain limitations. Effort and basketball IQ are not the issues here.

TheCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:00 pm Exactly what do YOU know about Nelson's defense?

I know he can't play it at this level.

Same as ADO.

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:10 pm

TheCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:00 pm Exactly what do YOU know about Nelson's defense?

I know he can't play it at this level.

Same as ADO.

Arizona is going need Aristode to be good and immediately.

Alieberman wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 2:11 pm I don’t understand what makes people think players won’t improve some from year to year?

I think Tommy has a pretty good record of developing dudes

Grant McAslan would have taken Tobe. Didn't he praise him as the best O boarder in the nation?

To my mind, Nelson is a replacement for Martinez, and I hope he can fulfill that...

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:06 pm

Alieberman wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 2:11 pm I don’t understand what makes people think players won’t improve some from year to year?

I think Tommy has a pretty good record of developing dudes

There's things that can be improved on of course, but ADO's physical limitations will always remain limitations. Effort and basketball IQ are not the issues here.

I would be shocked if we don’t see some improvement in ADOs defensive ability. Not that we will become great… but better

pc in NM wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:45 pm To my mind, Nelson is a replacement for Martinez, and I hope he can fulfill that...

Nelson was in the 99th percentile of catch and shoot shooting, iirc it was 71 efg%. So he def has that on him (and I guess almost every other CBB player from last year).

I spoke to someone who watches some Harvard ball (really) and knows of the kid from Salpointe.
He believes Nelson has a high bball IQ and can play a solid D1 game.
He is a floor leader type guy. Obviously doesn't see him starting. Also thinks he will help team in practice.

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:05 pm

Postmaster wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:57 pm Like, 23,000 ft? Or 6,000 ft? Where the clouds look gold and purple?

Yeah not sure on the altitude but it's starting to feel like none of these commitments would have happened without Clutch.

Is KJ with Clutch? I thought one of the guys that left was a Clutch guy. Was a bit surprised when he left because of that.

Postmaster wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 8:28 pm

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:05 pm

Postmaster wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:57 pm Like, 23,000 ft? Or 6,000 ft? Where the clouds look gold and purple?

Yeah not sure on the altitude but it's starting to feel like none of these commitments would have happened without Clutch.

Is KJ with Clutch? I thought one of the guys that left was a Clutch guy. Was a bit surprised when he left because of that.

KJ's agent: https://basketball.realgm.com/info/agen ... radbury/26

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:11 pm

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:10 pm

TheCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:00 pm Exactly what do YOU know about Nelson's defense?

I know he can't play it at this level.

Same as ADO.

Arizona is going need Aristode to be good and immediately.

Coming off injury (I don’t know what it was beyond “foot”, assumption is stress fracture but guessing there).

And where is the staff going to play him? Are we going, or have we already, done the promise to play 1 position down thing (i.e. in this case SG instead of SF) to help his draft stock? Accordingly does the staff intend to make Aristode the combo guard I posted that we still need/don’t have? If so that’s a negative imv.

With some exceptions like Flagg imo it’s difficult to forecast prep to college production. There are lots of good reasons why KenPom won’t include significant production in his preseason ratings for any incoming prep ranked below #20 nationally.

But, fwiw Lloyd’s track record is not one of relying on freshmen for big time minutes. Now maybe the quality of this class changes things but we still have to get past the fact that this staff has relied on guys like ADO and Townsend when it comes to trusting their evals (players like Bal, Fili, Maruskas, maybe even Martinez are in a different category).

Still need a combo guard and a 3/4 if Carter leaves.

Ones that can actually play.

Postmaster wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 8:28 pm

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:05 pm

Postmaster wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:57 pm Like, 23,000 ft? Or 6,000 ft? Where the clouds look gold and purple?

Yeah not sure on the altitude but it's starting to feel like none of these commitments would have happened without Clutch.

Is KJ with Clutch? I thought one of the guys that left was a Clutch guy. Was a bit surprised when he left because of that.

Yes. And I agree. Assumption is that he either got big $$$ from GTown or didn’t have a role in the current plan. But I don’t know the answer there. If I find out I will post it.

Alieberman wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 6:31 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:06 pm

Alieberman wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 2:11 pm I don’t understand what makes people think players won’t improve some from year to year?

I think Tommy has a pretty good record of developing dudes

There's things that can be improved on of course, but ADO's physical limitations will always remain limitations. Effort and basketball IQ are not the issues here.

I would be shocked if we don’t see some improvement in ADOs defensive ability. Not that we will become great… but better

I can’t predict the future but it’s difficult to get quicker, faster, stronger, etc. Especially in your 4th season. Not impossible but defense isn’t like improving your FG% when it comes to improvement.

I am hoping your take pertains to Awaka becoming able to play the 4 in Lloyd’s offense. If he can that would be a significant add imo.

In part because the same thing regarding ADO’s defense applies to Awaka’s offense (and as well his defense vs legit 5s). He isn’t going to get taller, his arms aren’t going to lengthen, and he is unlikely to get quicker off the ground and jump higher so he can use the offensive skills he has in the post (reliably).

Winger wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:30 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:11 pm

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:10 pm

TheCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:00 pm Exactly what do YOU know about Nelson's defense?

I know he can't play it at this level.

Same as ADO.

Arizona is going need Aristode to be good and immediately.

Coming off injury (I don’t know what it was beyond “foot”, assumption is stress fracture but guessing there).

And where is the staff going to play him? Are we going, or have we already, done the promise to play 1 position down thing (i.e. in this case SG instead of SF) to help his draft stock? Accordingly does the staff intend to make Aristode the combo guard I posted that we still need/don’t have? If so that’s a negative imv.

With some exceptions like Flagg imo it’s difficult to forecast prep to college production. There are lots of good reasons why KenPom won’t include significant production in his preseason ratings for any incoming prep ranked below #20 nationally.

But, fwiw Lloyd’s track record is not one of relying on freshmen for big time minutes. Now maybe the quality of this class changes things but we still have to get past the fact that this staff has relied on guys like ADO and Townsend when it comes to trusting their evals (players like Bal, Fili, Maruskas, maybe even Martinez are in a different category).

Still need a combo guard and a 3/4 if Carter leaves.

Ones that can actually play.

Agreed

Look, I will definitely take Jason and Mikes word that the staff is extremely high on Aristode. Dude was a very highly ranked recruit, and he certainly could be capable of locking down the 20 MPG role across 2-4 as needed. I'll provide my take when I can actually see him play this October...

What you, and many of us, have been saying is a contingency as a legit, readymade, 3rd guard, provides options and also lineup permutations which could prove vital. Specifically, the concept that I stole from Josh Gershon years ago. You get your young guys ready for March. Having that guard allows Aristode to progress naturally, and breakout into his role, very similar to Carter his year.

Additionally, that also lengthens your rotation, especially against quality teams, where we have a lot of our games in conference and OOC. Yes, we all know that going 7 deep in the tournament is logical, as was the talking point elsewhere yesterday. The point is getting there 30 games into the season. Right now, the margins are razor thin. God forbid anyone goes down for an extended period.

For some to spin that into hyperbole (not here), of which I'm not even going to repeat due to intellectually dishonesty, is lame. We all get we have a salary cap. We all are giving Lloyd credit for absolutely crushing his HS recruiting class, and that's why the money is gone.

The point is, I'm not willing to bet a FF on being a man short. I think we are, the staff may feel differently, and obviously have their hands tied due to NIL. I get it. However, it doesn't change our point..

I would love nothing more than for Aristode to be all freshman, lap up all the minutes we have, and we ride that 7 man rotation into Indy.

Last year

Bradley, Love, Carter, KJ, ADO.


This year

Bradley, Burries, Carter/replacement, Aristode, ADO.

Does that help for clarity?

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:10 pm

TheCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:00 pm Exactly what do YOU know about Nelson's defense?

I know he can't play it at this level.

Same as ADO.

You know absolutely nothing about this kid. I don't know either but I don't pretend to know like you do. Spare us your idiotic opinions like " I am starting to get the vibe that all of the recent commitments dont really have all that much to do with Lloyd’s recruiting". That might be the stupidest thing I have read on this board in awhile. I can believe your vibes or the words out of the kids mouth when he said Tommy had been recruiting him for 3 years. Give it a rest Nostradamus.

I guess you just think anyone hits 91.9% of their ft's and can hit 40+ from 3. No one can use a backup like that.

Hope he works out, enjoys his time at his dream school, doesn't hurt our GPA much, and glad a hometown player can play in front of his family for his final year.

Question for you basketball savants. Don’t we need another athletic big on this roster? Peat, Krivas and Awaka sounds one man short.

I was disappointed when Stephens left for the portal. Was he not patient enough? Was he miss used and upset? Any knowledge on his quick exit?

TucsonClip wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:51 am

Winger wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:30 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:11 pm

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:10 pm

TheCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:00 pm Exactly what do YOU know about Nelson's defense?

I know he can't play it at this level.

Same as ADO.

Arizona is going need Aristode to be good and immediately.

Coming off injury (I don’t know what it was beyond “foot”, assumption is stress fracture but guessing there).

And where is the staff going to play him? Are we going, or have we already, done the promise to play 1 position down thing (i.e. in this case SG instead of SF) to help his draft stock? Accordingly does the staff intend to make Aristode the combo guard I posted that we still need/don’t have? If so that’s a negative imv.

With some exceptions like Flagg imo it’s difficult to forecast prep to college production. There are lots of good reasons why KenPom won’t include significant production in his preseason ratings for any incoming prep ranked below #20 nationally.

But, fwiw Lloyd’s track record is not one of relying on freshmen for big time minutes. Now maybe the quality of this class changes things but we still have to get past the fact that this staff has relied on guys like ADO and Townsend when it comes to trusting their evals (players like Bal, Fili, Maruskas, maybe even Martinez are in a different category).

Still need a combo guard and a 3/4 if Carter leaves.

Ones that can actually play.

Agreed

Look, I will definitely take Jason and Mikes word that the staff is extremely high on Aristode. Dude was a very highly ranked recruit, and he certainly could be capable of locking down the 20 MPG role across 2-4 as needed. I'll provide my take when I can actually see him play this October...

What you, and many of us, have been saying is a contingency as a legit, readymade, 3rd guard, provides options and also lineup permutations which could prove vital. Specifically, the concept that I stole from Josh Gershon years ago. You get your young guys ready for March. Having that guard allows Aristode to progress naturally, and breakout into his role, very similar to Carter his year.

Additionally, that also lengthens your rotation, especially against quality teams, where we have a lot of our games in conference and OOC. Yes, we all know that going 7 deep in the tournament is logical, as was the talking point elsewhere yesterday. The point is getting there 30 games into the season. Right now, the margins are razor thin. God forbid anyone goes down for an extended period.

For some to spin that into hyperbole (not here), of which I'm not even going to repeat due to intellectually dishonesty, is lame. We all get we have a salary cap. We all are giving Lloyd credit for absolutely crushing his HS recruiting class, and that's why the money is gone.

The point is, I'm not willing to bet a FF on being a man short. I think we are, the staff may feel differently, and obviously have their hands tied due to NIL. I get it. However, it doesn't change our point..

I would love nothing more than for Aristode to be all freshman, lap up all the minutes we have, and we ride that 7 man rotation into Indy.

Last year

Bradley, Love, Carter, KJ, ADO.


This year

Bradley, Burries, Carter/replacement, Aristode, ADO.

Does that help for clarity?

Yes, it’s clear TC, thanks, appreciate the post.

It’s hard for me to trust the staff being high on Aristode. Especially as a SG. That is what I was getting at above. Coming off injury, freshman, etc, and; if Jason and Luke are saying what you note above, well the news out of the regime was always 100% favorable until the games started (or especially if/after a player transferred) during my 2 decades of experience with it so that means nothing to me.

I think you’re sort of saying the same thing. Something like “great, fine, I trust the staff, but I also believe what I believe, and well the staff was high on ADO and Townsend and Martinez as well”.

One huge thing that is behind me wanting another guard is that, though Lloyd’s system doesn’t really support this, we still don’t have a PG or combo that can control possessions offensively at the end of tight games and deliver Ws. We lost a ton of games at the end of games this past season for this reason (also: college hoops is a lot about shooting and we couldn’t shoot) and were also consistently outplayed by guys like Uzan.

I like Bradley and want him back but he is unlikely to turn into this kind of a player and I believe we need one and will be limited without one. No clue if it’s in the budget but 1 booster can change that in a nanosecond just like what happened w Love last off season.

azcat49 wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:04 am Don’t we need another athletic big on this roster? Peat, Krivas and Awaka sounds one man short.

Agree, unless Bryant comes back (I think Bryant can help fill the athletic big role and add to those 3 even if he is a bit light on the “big” part).

azcat49 wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:04 am Question for you basketball savants. Don’t we need another athletic big on this roster? Peat, Krivas and Awaka sounds one man short.

I was disappointed when Stephens left for the portal. Was he not patient enough? Was he miss used and upset? Any knowledge on his quick exit?

I would prefer that we had a more versatile C, and Henri was the perfect fit to start next to Koa. We have to bring in another guy, but I doubt they are ready to play minutes this year.

Winger wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:06 am

TucsonClip wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:51 am

Winger wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 7:30 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:11 pm

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:10 pm

I know he can't play it at this level.

Same as ADO.

Arizona is going need Aristode to be good and immediately.

Coming off injury (I don’t know what it was beyond “foot”, assumption is stress fracture but guessing there).

And where is the staff going to play him? Are we going, or have we already, done the promise to play 1 position down thing (i.e. in this case SG instead of SF) to help his draft stock? Accordingly does the staff intend to make Aristode the combo guard I posted that we still need/don’t have? If so that’s a negative imv.

With some exceptions like Flagg imo it’s difficult to forecast prep to college production. There are lots of good reasons why KenPom won’t include significant production in his preseason ratings for any incoming prep ranked below #20 nationally.

But, fwiw Lloyd’s track record is not one of relying on freshmen for big time minutes. Now maybe the quality of this class changes things but we still have to get past the fact that this staff has relied on guys like ADO and Townsend when it comes to trusting their evals (players like Bal, Fili, Maruskas, maybe even Martinez are in a different category).

Still need a combo guard and a 3/4 if Carter leaves.

Ones that can actually play.

Agreed

Look, I will definitely take Jason and Mikes word that the staff is extremely high on Aristode. Dude was a very highly ranked recruit, and he certainly could be capable of locking down the 20 MPG role across 2-4 as needed. I'll provide my take when I can actually see him play this October...

What you, and many of us, have been saying is a contingency as a legit, readymade, 3rd guard, provides options and also lineup permutations which could prove vital. Specifically, the concept that I stole from Josh Gershon years ago. You get your young guys ready for March. Having that guard allows Aristode to progress naturally, and breakout into his role, very similar to Carter his year.

Additionally, that also lengthens your rotation, especially against quality teams, where we have a lot of our games in conference and OOC. Yes, we all know that going 7 deep in the tournament is logical, as was the talking point elsewhere yesterday. The point is getting there 30 games into the season. Right now, the margins are razor thin. God forbid anyone goes down for an extended period.

For some to spin that into hyperbole (not here), of which I'm not even going to repeat due to intellectually dishonesty, is lame. We all get we have a salary cap. We all are giving Lloyd credit for absolutely crushing his HS recruiting class, and that's why the money is gone.

The point is, I'm not willing to bet a FF on being a man short. I think we are, the staff may feel differently, and obviously have their hands tied due to NIL. I get it. However, it doesn't change our point..

I would love nothing more than for Aristode to be all freshman, lap up all the minutes we have, and we ride that 7 man rotation into Indy.

Last year

Bradley, Love, Carter, KJ, ADO.


This year

Bradley, Burries, Carter/replacement, Aristode, ADO.

Does that help for clarity?

One huge thing that is behind me wanting another guard is that, though Lloyd’s system doesn’t really support this, we still don’t have a PG or combo that can control possessions offensively at the end of tight games and deliver Ws. We lost a ton of games at the end of games this past season for this reason (also: college hoops is a lot about shooting and we couldn’t shoot) and were also consistently outplayed by guys like Uzan.

I like Bradley and want him back but he is unlikely to turn into this kind of a player and I believe we need one and will be limited without one. No clue if it’s in the budget but 1 booster can change that in a nanosecond just like what happened w Love last off season.

This is what I have been pounding the table for the last four years. We have always been one shot creator short. I just cannot comprehend why, in a system which revolves around running multiple ball screens/DHOs on every possession, that we have a max of two guys who can create, possibly 1.5. It boggles my mind.

The last paragraph, maybe I should have been more apparent on the other board going up against the staffs talking points. You and I both heard one booster earmarked Love's NIL. While our NIL is certainly higher this upcoming season, that was my entire point. Those around the program need to fucking help Lloyd out here. If we ran out of NIL funds, despite this being our most expensive roster ever, go find more. This is the year to push all in. We are thiiiis close. One legit reserve guard could swing our fortunes.

TheCat wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:02 am

Winger wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 5:10 pm

TheCat wrote: Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:00 pm Exactly what do YOU know about Nelson's defense?

I know he can't play it at this level.

Same as ADO.

You know absolutely nothing about this kid. I don't know either but I don't pretend to know like you do. Spare us your idiotic opinions like " I am starting to get the vibe that all of the recent commitments dont really have all that much to do with Lloyd’s recruiting". That might be the stupidest thing I have read on this board in awhile. I can believe your vibes or the words out of the kids mouth when he said Tommy had been recruiting him for 3 years. Give it a rest Nostradamus.

I guess you just think anyone hits 91.9% of their ft's and can hit 40+ from 3. No one can use a backup like that.

Hope he works out, enjoys his time at his dream school, doesn't hurt our GPA much, and glad a hometown player can play in front of his family for his final year.

Just a couple things. Love Winger and his posts do keep them coming

ADO can’t play defense and I posted early in the year he is the worse D1 defender I have ever seen.

Have not seen the Nelson KU but it sounds like a kid who wanted to come home and play for the cats. Someone asked CTL if there was room and he said yes. Might be as simple as that.

Finally, get off your high horse TC and let this board be better with guys like Winger.

azcat49 wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 8:04 am Question for you basketball savants. Don’t we need another athletic big on this roster? Peat, Krivas and Awaka sounds one man short.

I was disappointed when Stephens left for the portal. Was he not patient enough? Was he miss used and upset? Any knowledge on his quick exit?

As far as actually getting playing time, no. But to have one on the roster to practice and in case of injury, yes.

Yes Azcat49 we need a poster who indicates that our head coaches recruiting had nothing to do with recruits signing here. Some of his posts are demeaning to our coaching staff and quite frankly entirely inaccurate. We can believe the bullshit he sometime says, as in this case, or the recruit himself. He trust his vibe and his evaluation of players that much we are assured of. If calling him out on this vibe is me being on a high horse then so be it.

I, like you have no idea on the value of Nelson, but think someone should at least see him before he is critical of him before declaring him a bust. That is just me. He may be terrible but anyone that shoots over 91% from the line has value in certain situations. I guess I just believe that the coaching staff is more accurate than a keyboard wizard.

So does anyone know what's going on with walk-ons? Are they still getting rid of them this year, therefore we have more scholarships to hand out than we'll need, or has it not been resolved yet?

TheCat wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:25 am Yes Azcat49 we need a poster who indicates that our head coaches recruiting had nothing to do with recruits signing here. Some of his posts are demeaning to our coaching staff and quite frankly entirely inaccurate. We can believe the bullshit he sometime says, as in this case, or the recruit himself. He trust his vibe and his evaluation of players that much we are assured of. If calling him out on this vibe is me being on a high horse then so be it.

I, like you have no idea on the value of Nelson, but think someone should at least see him before he is critical of him before declaring him a bust. That is just me. He may be terrible but anyone that shoots over 91% from the line has value in certain situations. I guess I just believe that the coaching staff is more accurate than a keyboard wizard.

His metrics look good but he is not coming in from Harvard to get 20 minutes a game. And it’s as much conjecture on your part that we actually recruited him as opposed to the player simply reaching out and wondering if there was an available spot in the town he once played in. Maybe the staff did reach out and ask him to be that 9th or 10th guy with appropriate minutes. Who knows and who cares.

You just seem to make it personal with Winger. Both of you bring value to this board but you seem dead set on degrading his opinions. This isn’t a dick measuring contest and you can simply say you disagree. Time will tell on this guys ability to contribute and how he does. Until then we speculate

I never said or implied how Nelson was recruited. He might have just reached out and Tommy looked at his tape and said why not. You see when I don't know something I say I don't know. I have no idea how much time he will earn if any and I'm sure Tommy was honest with him about his commitment to JB.

Winger and I just look at things completely different. In my opinion he says stuff that degrades both players and staff sometimes without merit or knowledge. When you say our head coach did not have a lot to do with one of our best recruits coming here I find that fucking stupid and dismisses the effort that a coach has put in for 3 years courting this guy before anyone on this board even knew his name. Why would you do that? Because your vibe told you that? Seems weird to me that someone that supports this program would ever jump to that conclusion.

Anyway I will try to do my best to ignore some of the odd/disrespectful things he post. I do know that the players and coaches on this team give more to the university than anyone on this board and that to me merits some level of respect. I will try and be better.

You know TC that it is kind that you want to do better, it says a lot about your character! I don’t think you have to but just recognize we all have differing opinions about a boat load of things and no one is omniscient about these things. We can differ in our opinion without calling people out. We will see on this kid and all of us will have the same goal, that he excels and helps lead us to the promised land. Bear down brother

Pretty good company.

A bunch of other underachievers eh?

azcat49 wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 1:46 pm

TheCat wrote: Sat Apr 12, 2025 11:25 am Yes Azcat49 we need a poster who indicates that our head coaches recruiting had nothing to do with recruits signing here. Some of his posts are demeaning to our coaching staff and quite frankly entirely inaccurate. We can believe the bullshit he sometime says, as in this case, or the recruit himself. He trust his vibe and his evaluation of players that much we are assured of. If calling him out on this vibe is me being on a high horse then so be it.

I, like you have no idea on the value of Nelson, but think someone should at least see him before he is critical of him before declaring him a bust. That is just me. He may be terrible but anyone that shoots over 91% from the line has value in certain situations. I guess I just believe that the coaching staff is more accurate than a keyboard wizard.

His metrics look good but he is not coming in from Harvard to get 20 minutes a game. And it’s as much conjecture on your part that we actually recruited him as opposed to the player simply reaching out and wondering if there was an available spot in the town he once played in. Maybe the staff did reach out and ask him to be that 9th or 10th guy with appropriate minutes. Who knows and who cares.

You just seem to make it personal with Winger. Both of you bring value to this board but you seem dead set on degrading his opinions. This isn’t a dick measuring contest and you can simply say you disagree. Time will tell on this guys ability to contribute and how he does. Until then we speculate

His metrics are not good. I would have already done a long post showing how-so but I don’t like piling on to a commitment. I feel bad even posting that he isn’t at this level (“this” = legit contributor on a F4 contender). But he isn’t. And, I feel like posting that Lloyd is taking guys that can’t play at this level is important. Especially after last season when he repeatedly started 2 of them and repeatedly lost games, including the S16 game, because of doing so. Even though I know this is a complete waste of my time.

And it isn’t insulting or degrading to post that I am hearing that Clutch facilitated the recent commitments. It is important to Arizona how it gets players and the times are changing, which makes it even more important. Because: this dramatic change in the shape of the landscape of college ball should be viewed as a threat to Arizona’s continued pursuit of quasi-blue-blood status. Especially given Lloyd’s rather poor performance prior to this class when it comes to recruiting domestic preps and even more especially given his rep as the “best Euro recruiter” and the potential downstream effects of that. Made more important by the move to a conference that has a style of play that isn’t terribly conducive to lack of physicality/defense.

Until facts show that it isn’t a threat. Facts like Lloyd’s 2025 recruiting class. Which it appears to me happened in large part because of Clutch. I bet eventually this will get out there (assuming it’s true). When it does some of you will remember that you read about it here first.

Now, we still need a couple dudes imo.

So here is something to remember. When it comes to Euro recruiting, or really any recruiting in which there are professional teams involved with the recruits, it is often the case that a US college program has to sign these guys on the last day of the signing period. This has happened at Arizona under Lloyd already. So, even though some are opining that we are out of $$$ and aren’t on anyone, maybe there is still a chance. Be it a secret “Euro” or a transfer.

I posted a million times this season that this off season was going to be a big one for Lloyd. He has already imv come close to hitting a home run. Just need a couple more pieces. Especially if its true that Carter is gonezo.