Bear Down Wildcats

rgdeuce wrote:Still trying to figure out how Miller was outcoached last night. Ayton completely killed UNLV down the stretch - how many times did they double team him?

CatFanOneMil wrote:The "fire Miller crowd" is really misinformed...not sure what fantasy world you might be living in but there is no coach out there who could swoop in and turn these prima donna softboys into NBA men over night...NOT.ONE.FUCKING.COACH.IN.THE.USA.COULD.DO.THAT.

And down that road there is not a coach in America that can predict what a top recruit is ACTUALLY going to do in his system, or ANY system for that matter, high school is different than college as much as lakes are different than oceans.

So all this shit talk about some imaginary "ceiling" can be taken with a grain of salt and shoved up your ass...there is no ceiling, its not a corporate ladder to the final four, its luck, hard work, effort, SOME strategy and a whole shit load of refs and and luck and random shit and did I mention luck?

You want a description of a great coach with no ceiling? Good luck...there it is motherfuckers...luck of the draw...I just watched a game where three fucking refs went to the scorers table for a good ten minutes on a no call...there was absolutely NO REASON to spend 10 minutes reviewing different angles and let players rest up and coaches coach up...it changed the game by increments...and this was a game of incremental difference in the final score...and you want to talk about a ceiling on a coach as if he were in control of more than 10% of any of this?

You're on crack.

rgdeuce wrote:Still trying to figure out how Miller was outcoached last night. Ayton completely killed UNLV down the stretch - how many times did they double team him?

zonagrad wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Still trying to figure out how Miller was outcoached last night. Ayton completely killed UNLV down the stretch - how many times did they double team him?

When the players execute poorly and Arizona loses, detractors say Miller was outcoached. When Arizona wins, it's because Arizona's talent was superior despite Miller's coaching.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
This board pregame: "It's gonna take a miracle to beat UNLV."

We beat UNLV.

This board: "Miller got outcoached. The team has quit. We're going to get slaughtered by A&M."

Bear Down Vegas wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
This board pregame: "It's gonna take a miracle to beat UNLV."

We beat UNLV.

This board: "Miller got outcoached. The team has quit. We're going to get slaughtered by A&M."

No kidding. And if it didn't take the obnoxious, cherry picked to photos to see that enfuego is the one who agrees with "Miller can't coach" squad, I'll go ahead and point out who is lining up with you.

I tend to agree with Choo the most for the people who have "lost faith" but even that I think is boiled down a lot simpler than some of the more nuanced things that have happened in the last 9 years.

ps - Miller was absolutely not out coached last night. As soon as his players started doing what he's been pleading with them to do - we beat UNLV in their building by about 15 in less than a half real game time.

Longhorned wrote:

Bear Down Vegas wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
This board pregame: "It's gonna take a miracle to beat UNLV."

We beat UNLV.

This board: "Miller got outcoached. The team has quit. We're going to get slaughtered by A&M."

No kidding. And if it didn't take the obnoxious, cherry picked to photos to see that enfuego is the one who agrees with "Miller can't coach" squad, I'll go ahead and point out who is lining up with you.

I tend to agree with Choo the most for the people who have "lost faith" but even that I think is boiled down a lot simpler than some of the more nuanced things that have happened in the last 9 years.

ps - Miller was absolutely not out coached last night. As soon as his players started doing what he's been pleading with them to do - we beat UNLV in their building by about 15 in less than a half real game time.

Yes, on the money. I could only listen, but by the math alone it was a tale of two halfs, plus the impressive feat of winning the overtime on the road after the fatigue of coming back. Seems like the adjustment was the players’ ability to implement. No way Miller got outcouched when his team is the one that came back and won.

Bear Down Vegas wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
This board pregame: "It's gonna take a miracle to beat UNLV."

We beat UNLV.

This board: "Miller got outcoached. The team has quit. We're going to get slaughtered by A&M."

No kidding. And if it didn't take the obnoxious, cherry picked to photos to see that enfuego is the one who agrees with "Miller can't coach" squad, I'll go ahead and point out who is lining up with you.

I tend to agree with Choo the most for the people who have "lost faith" but even that I think is boiled down a lot simpler than some of the more nuanced things that have happened in the last 9 years.

ps - Miller was absolutely not out coached last night. As soon as his players started doing what he's been pleading with them to do - we beat UNLV in their building by about 15 in less than a half real game time.

JMarkJohns wrote:I'm one year from walking away.

I can't take it. I won't deserve the success that may come, but I can't handle this shit any longer. I'm pretty close to writing off sports.

I'm right there.

Longhorned wrote:My guess is Miller didn't see how ill prepared for high level basketball this team was until NC State. Remember his comment in September that this team has everything success requires, so there can be no excuses?

I still don't think we have any useful indicators of what this team will become.

Meaningful development doesn't occur in practice. Practice is for the reset, addressing flaws, setting the stage for development, and stopping the bleeding. Real development happens in games, and in the course of games.

Games like LBSU are tough because they don't give us reliable indicators.

For the players themselves, three back-to-back games are awful for teams that are as ensconced in flaws as Arizona is this fall. There's no opportunity to regroup and stop the bleeding.

I'm not ruling out anything. It could very well be that the Battle for Atlantis was a triplication of a single discouraging stage, rather than a triply clear sign that this team is going down... down... down.

Olsondogg wrote:There is seriously so much stupid fucking shit in this thread from people I tend to listen to and admire. Blame it on booze, or fatigue or the fucking full moon...but realize what part of the season this is and shut the fuck up, or move on.

Jesus Christ what a shitshow of a thread this is.

NYCat wrote:

JMarkJohns wrote:I'm one year from walking away.

I can't take it. I won't deserve the success that may come, but I can't handle this shit any longer. I'm pretty close to writing off sports.

I'm right there.

I was at this point after last year too, and now this season already seems lost.

Pretty much should've bump this post, exactly how I feel.

1stNGrant Frys wrote:

Longhorned wrote:My guess is Miller didn't see how ill prepared for high level basketball this team was until NC State. Remember his comment in September that this team has everything success requires, so there can be no excuses?

I still don't think we have any useful indicators of what this team will become.

Meaningful development doesn't occur in practice. Practice is for the reset, addressing flaws, setting the stage for development, and stopping the bleeding. Real development happens in games, and in the course of games.

Games like LBSU are tough because they don't give us reliable indicators.

For the players themselves, three back-to-back games are awful for teams that are as ensconced in flaws as Arizona is this fall. There's no opportunity to regroup and stop the bleeding.

I'm not ruling out anything. It could very well be that the Battle for Atlantis was a triplication of a single discouraging stage, rather than a triply clear sign that this team is going down... down... down.

Since its hard to regroup in Atlantis, I tend to think of it as mentally ONE giant loss as opposed to three individual losses.

What does Miller have against Marvin Menzies, I heard they didnt even shake hands after the game?

enfuego wrote:
Didn't Miller's USA team underachieve as well?

YoDeFoe wrote:

enfuego wrote:
Didn't Miller's USA team underachieve as well?

Led by Miller, the 2015 USA Basketball Men’s U19 World Championship Team won its seven games by an average of 25.3 points per contest at the 2015 FIBA U19 World Championship from June 27-July 5 in Crete, Greece. The gold medal finish was the USA men’s third in the past four U19 World Championships.

“To be named as a 2015 USA Basketball Co-National Coach of the Year is a great honor,” Miller said. “It is the culmination of the efforts of coaches and players working together for one purpose – a gold medal. A special thank you to USA Basketball for making all we did first class in every way possible.”

“One thing that made him a great coach is that he was willing to let the players be themselves,” Brunson said of Miller. “He had his offensive set and style of play. But at the same time he let us go and trusted us. We just played hard for him.

The USA’s average of 19.1 assists per game set a USA men’s U19 competition record, and its 55.6 percent shooting from 3-point (5-9 3pt FGs) against Italy on July 3 set a U.S. single-game high. Additionally, Chinanu Onauku’s (Louisville/Lanham, Md.) four blocks against Croatia on July 5 tied the USA U19 single-game record.

The USA led the 16-team field in seven team statistical categories, including scoring margin, points per game (88.3), total points (618), field goal percentage (.486), blocks per game (6.4), steals per game (13.0) and efficiency (107.9).

Moron.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

enfuego wrote:
Didn't Miller's USA team underachieve as well?

Led by Miller, the 2015 USA Basketball Men’s U19 World Championship Team won its seven games by an average of 25.3 points per contest at the 2015 FIBA U19 World Championship from June 27-July 5 in Crete, Greece. The gold medal finish was the USA men’s third in the past four U19 World Championships.

“To be named as a 2015 USA Basketball Co-National Coach of the Year is a great honor,” Miller said. “It is the culmination of the efforts of coaches and players working together for one purpose – a gold medal. A special thank you to USA Basketball for making all we did first class in every way possible.”

“One thing that made him a great coach is that he was willing to let the players be themselves,” Brunson said of Miller. “He had his offensive set and style of play. But at the same time he let us go and trusted us. We just played hard for him.

The USA’s average of 19.1 assists per game set a USA men’s U19 competition record, and its 55.6 percent shooting from 3-point (5-9 3pt FGs) against Italy on July 3 set a U.S. single-game high. Additionally, Chinanu Onauku’s (Louisville/Lanham, Md.) four blocks against Croatia on July 5 tied the USA U19 single-game record.

The USA led the 16-team field in seven team statistical categories, including scoring margin, points per game (88.3), total points (618), field goal percentage (.486), blocks per game (6.4), steals per game (13.0) and efficiency (107.9).

Moron.

But other than that what did he do?

RiseAndFire wrote:it would be really tough to win with this roster. you really have to be a whiz with Xs and Os to succeed with these bums:

Josh Jackson
Caleb Swanigan
Jayson Tatum
Isaiah Briscoe
Terrance Ferguson
Chinanu Onauku
Trier

proves Miller is a strategic genius
meanwhile, any rpi top 30 team that plays a zone completely shuts our offense down

rgdeuce wrote:He also ignores the fact that these foreign U19 guys play, practice and train together most of the year. Miller was handed a handful of kids who have never played together outside of a showcase or AAU event, and who have never played for Miller before. He had them for what, a couple of weeks before the games started?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:He also ignores the fact that these foreign U19 guys play, practice and train together most of the year. Miller was handed a handful of kids who have never played together outside of a showcase or AAU event, and who have never played for Miller before. He had them for what, a couple of weeks before the games started?

There's a lot of things he's ignoring.

Beachcat97 wrote:How does a coach lose a team 7 games into the season?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:How does a coach lose a team 7 games into the season?

Oh it ain't lost yet.

Beachcat97 wrote:I'm good with changing the title of the thread.

It was chosen after a really bad loss. You gotta let a few days pass, I've learned. Time brings perspective.

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:PS. Could you imagine if this thread title was ‘Tim Floyd’s Ceiling’??? Talk about dodging a bullet....I still remember waking up to a text from my Aggie Bro that our new coach was going to be Tim Floyd.....I almost crapped my pants till the situation cleared itself.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:PS. Could you imagine if this thread title was ‘Tim Floyd’s Ceiling’??? Talk about dodging a bullet....I still remember waking up to a text from my Aggie Bro that our new coach was going to be Tim Floyd.....I almost crapped my pants till the situation cleared itself.

I actually like Tim Floyd. I'd never take him over Sean, of course, but he was a decent college coach at USC and Iowa State.

But yeah, I get your point. Sean Miller has been wonderful for this program. The guy has his quirks, and he's obviously stubborn AF. But it's produced some pretty damn good results. The guy's system has worked for us more often than not. He also just seems like a good person. A stand up guy. He's a hard ass, but if you work hard for him, he's got your back. I think of Kadeem Allen. There's a guy who worked as hard as anyone recently, and Miller gave him every possible opportunity to lead the team and set himself up for the next level. Now he's with the Celtics. Sometimes Miller's recruited guys who turned out to be bad fits, but many have worked out just fine.

As long as Sean continues to learn and evolve and reflect on his craft, the dude's got no ceiling.

zonagrad wrote:The more I watch this team, the more I realize that we cannot be reliant on Allonzo Trier every night for 20+ points. In fact, if we do try to get him to score that much, it's to our detriment. We have capable players who can score in a variety of ways. It's gonna take time for all the pieces to come together and having Alkins back will certainly help. Tonight Trier was contained by A&M's long defense. They bottled him up. We had open looks all over the floor and nobody could make anything except for Smith.

YoDeFoe wrote:Y'all see Miller mixing in a post double team? Two games in a row to take the big man out of the game.

Bummer we couldn't control Davis... but he looked unstoppable.

Pop McKale wrote:Also didn't understand why we just left Dusan on an island to guard Davis down the stretch last night. Let Lee or Ayton go at him or try some quick double-teams right after the entry pass to throw him off his block a bit.

dcZONAfan wrote:

Pop McKale wrote:Also didn't understand why we just left Dusan on an island to guard Davis down the stretch last night. Let Lee or Ayton go at him or try some quick double-teams right after the entry pass to throw him off his block a bit.

So you completely missed when the cameras got up close on Sean and he was yelling at the team "YOU GOTTA DOUBLE" after one of those plays, huh? He can't be on the floor doubling, he can only tell the guys to do it. If they don't, well shit that sucks.

Same with the fouling of the three point shooter. You know Sean teaches it right (we've done it right plenty of times), the team just fucked it up (although I'm of the belief Ayton grabbed him before he started shooting and it was somehow a continuation when that's not a thing in college basketball)

dcZONAfan wrote:

Pop McKale wrote:Also didn't understand why we just left Dusan on an island to guard Davis down the stretch last night. Let Lee or Ayton go at him or try some quick double-teams right after the entry pass to throw him off his block a bit.

So you completely missed when the cameras got up close on Sean and he was yelling at the team "YOU GOTTA DOUBLE" after one of those plays, huh? He can't be on the floor doubling, he can only tell the guys to do it. If they don't, well shit that sucks.

Same with the fouling of the three point shooter. You know Sean teaches it right (we've done it right plenty of times), the team just fucked it up (although I'm of the belief Ayton grabbed him before he started shooting and it was somehow a continuation when that's not a thing in college basketball)