Bear Down Wildcats

PHXCATS wrote:I guess Alex is the guy who drew the short straw this year and is the one that everyone will hate on all year. A tradition unlike any other around here

I like my basketball players to actually do something outside of merely being present when they're on the court.

Think of this and get back to me, what at this point is the difference between Alex Barcello and Tyler Trillo?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:My thoughts so far.

Defense--The brightest spot. I know we're playing bad teams, but this has been the area we consistently produce in that's seen us through some rough patches. The really good part is our execution should improve and shave down mistakes. This team wants to play D.

Rebounding--The darkest spot. Against bad teams, barely winning on the glass bodes ill. A good defensive posession is completely negated by failing on the offensive glass.

Offense--We are very 3 dependent, and that worries me. Smith is in a dark hole and our overall shooting has been inconsistent. Being consistent from the 3 would go a long way towards solving issues because we have no real post attack.

Overall: Hawaii is really huge for us. Beating ISU would go a long way and a 2-1 record would really help our tournament resume. I could see it happening. I could also see us going 0-3 if we shoot poorly and the rebounding issues continue. This year, every game matters.

Wont have a whole lot to say until at least Monday. However, I agree with you on the above.

These dudes are coming to play, and play hard. Its exciting to watch, and we should keep an eye on Miller's rotations as well. Could this be the year he expands to 9 or maybe 10 guys in order to keep his defense fresh?

The offense definitely has a few new quirks, a lot of cross court, wing to corner balancing cuts, which will open up some threes moving forward once we become a but more proficient on that end. Also noticed Miller adopted more ball screen slips this year, at least more than I remember previously. That was something teams killed us with the last few years.

Barcello is from my high school alma mater, and I want him to do well here, but yeah he just kinda gets the yips/is a non factor when on the court. He shouldn’t be taking minutes from someone like DD who just kills it everytime he’s in.

Sometimes it seems that PhxCats likes things based on how connected they are to Phx, nothing wrong with a homer mentality but it’s generally not the most objective.

TucsonClip wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:My thoughts so far.

Defense--The brightest spot. I know we're playing bad teams, but this has been the area we consistently produce in that's seen us through some rough patches. The really good part is our execution should improve and shave down mistakes. This team wants to play D.

Rebounding--The darkest spot. Against bad teams, barely winning on the glass bodes ill. A good defensive posession is completely negated by failing on the offensive glass.

Offense--We are very 3 dependent, and that worries me. Smith is in a dark hole and our overall shooting has been inconsistent. Being consistent from the 3 would go a long way towards solving issues because we have no real post attack.

Overall: Hawaii is really huge for us. Beating ISU would go a long way and a 2-1 record would really help our tournament resume. I could see it happening. I could also see us going 0-3 if we shoot poorly and the rebounding issues continue. This year, every game matters.

Wont have a whole lot to say until at least Monday. However, I agree with you on the above.

These dudes are coming to play, and play hard. Its exciting to watch, and we should keep an eye on Miller's rotations as well. Could this be the year he expands to 9 or maybe 10 guys in order to keep his defense fresh?

The offense definitely has a few new quirks, a lot of cross court, wing to corner balancing cuts, which will open up some threes moving forward once we become a but more proficient on that end. Also noticed Miller adopted more ball screen slips this year, at least more than I remember previously. That was something teams killed us with the last few years.

I think if 9 or 10 guys are ready to dig in and go on D, he'd expand the rotation. Every public statement Miller makes, D and effort come up as the key. His game film session with Dylan Smith, he was so complimentary about Smith's effort and D.

The other thing that makes me believe this is that we don't have the same separation in talent this year vs others. The dropoff isn't Rondae to Elliott Pitts, it's Akot or Smith to Doutrive. You won't lose sleep sitting the guys we'd have to sit.

CalStateTempe wrote:Barcello is from my high school alma mater, and I want him to do well here, but yeah he just kinda gets the yips/is a non factor when on the court. He shouldn’t be taking minutes from someone like DD who just kills it everytime he’s in.

Sometimes it seems that PhxCats likes things based on how connected they are to Phx, nothing wrong with a homer mentality but it’s generally not the most objective.

Has nothing to do with him being from Tempe. Has everything to do with him being a good defensive player who moves the ball well and makes few mistakes. DD has only played in garbage time. If Miller really think DD is better than Alex, DD would be playing more. You guys arent seeing something that Miller isnt. Miller knows what he is doing and Alex is the best option all around to get those 8-16 minutes a game behind the starting guards.

And yes Sky Harbor is by far the best airport in America and it isnt close

People have been bashing Smith for a year now, but Barcello is the guy who shouldnt lose minutes and is the new whipping boy? Did I read that correctly?

I'm far more concerned about the lack of production out of Akot than out of Smith, Barcello, or Doutrive.

Akot is a crucial piece of a thin front court and has the potential to be a true zone buster positioned at the FT line. If he's the same player that he was last season, we're in trouble.

TucsonClip wrote:People have been bashing Smith for a year now, but Barcello is the guy who shouldnt lose minutes and is the new whipping boy? Did I read that correctly?

The agenda is whatever Machina wants it to be. It's magic.

YoDeFoe wrote:I'm far more concerned about the lack of production out of Akot than out of Smith, Barcello, or Doutrive.

Akot is a crucial piece of a thin front court and has the potential to be a true zone buster positioned at the FT line. If he's the same player that he was last season, we're in trouble.

His jumpshot is still broken. He can't create when opponents are sagging off of him 6 feet into the lane. If anything, I'd like to see more postups called for Akot

We should find out our actual rotation in Maui and see who Miller really trusts.

Up until now I think Miller had just been trying to figure out his pieces

Justin Coleman has taken more FGAs than Ryan Luther and that needs to change immediately. Luther should be our 1C scoring option along with the Brandons (1A and 1B). Conversely, Coleman should realize that he's not at Arizona to call his own number - his game should be to run the offense, dribble penetrate, and knock down catch and shoot threes. He should be especially focused on creating for Akot, Luther, Jeter, and Lee as the Brandons can largely take care of their own offense.

Edit: Reviewing the numbers, Coleman has taken 0 assisted shots. All of his shots have been of his own making. That shit has to stop. He's nowhere near big or talented enough to finish at the rim or shoot over a defender on the perimeter.

Edit edit: the above doesn't include last night's game yet, but I get the feeling it won't look better when it's updated.

I am a mix of excited and nervous for Maui.

I feel Miller has been panting everyone and the kitchen sink for these early games but we’ll see a tightening of the line up against Iowa st

YoDeFoe wrote: Coleman has taken 0 assisted shots. All of his shots have been of his own making

Step off Merkin!

ChooChooCat wrote:

azcat49 wrote:Miller is going to give Barcello every chance to hold onto his spot in the rotation but you can see DD breathing down his neck.

DD is just not as strong, which Miller values as well as experienced but unless something kicks in that we have not seen yet I think it's just a matter of time before AB falls out of the rotation. Next week should be very telling

Who does DD need to defend to where he needs to not be overpowered exactly? How about Barcello? Regardless when they're in they're going to defend the weakest perimeter player on the floor for the opposition, so who cares about strength? I know one thing for sure, DD would be able to recover his on his defender at a much higher rate than Barcello ever could. The one advantage Barcello has on DD is time in the system. That's great and all, but you've gotta produce something of worth when you're out on the court, otherwise you're nothing more than a glorified walk on who is just merely present.

I certainly don't disagree with you Choo, quite the contrary. I just think that Miller is allowing AB as much rope as needed until his play hangs himself. We don't see practice and while I think DD must be shaking his head he knows his time is coming and that while AB is the best shooter in DRILLS, real game time and game performance or lack thereof will allow DD to move ahead very soon unless something really lifts with AB's play.

this monday will be my first time seeing live action of any kind this season.

Am I crazy to think maybe losing to ISU is better for us than beating them? Losing to ISU would let us play Illinois and then likely either Xavier or SDSU, all teams that are more in our wheelhouse. 2-1 would definitely be doable from there. Beating ISU means we likely play Gonzaga and then Auburn/Duke, which smells to me like a 1-2 overall tourney record. Just a thought...maybe already trying to rationalize a potential loss on Monday lol

no

goslingswagg wrote:Am I crazy to think maybe losing to ISU is better for us than beating them? Losing to ISU would let us play Illinois and then likely either Xavier or SDSU, all teams that are more in our wheelhouse. 2-1 would definitely be doable from there. Beating ISU means we likely play Gonzaga and then Auburn/Duke, which smells to me like a 1-2 overall tourney record. Just a thought...maybe already trying to rationalize a potential loss on Monday lol

The only team that I don't think we're capable of beating in Maui is Duke. But I don't think Duke knows how to play defense yet. Or how to play against sophisticated defenses. So far their games have been nothing more than roll the ball out pick up games. We can definitely beat Gonzaga and Auburn.

I don't care if we don't beat Gonzaga or Duke (that's a lie) I really want to play them though to see where we are

goslingswagg wrote:Am I crazy to think maybe losing to ISU is better for us than beating them? Losing to ISU would let us play Illinois and then likely either Xavier or SDSU, all teams that are more in our wheelhouse. 2-1 would definitely be doable from there. Beating ISU means we likely play Gonzaga and then Auburn/Duke, which smells to me like a 1-2 overall tourney record. Just a thought...maybe already trying to rationalize a potential loss on Monday lol

On the same foot losing to Gonzaga or Auburn don't hurt you, while beating Illinois or a Xavier/SDSU doesn't really help you either from a resume stand point. I'd rather beat Iowa State, which will be a very good win by the end of the year, get a great learning experience from Gonzaga, and then do our damnedest against Auburn.

Been lurking for a while on this board and don't really contribute much, but here's my $0.02. AB was never expected to be an impact player from day 1. A lot of people wanted to compare him to TJ and hoped he could be a similar player later in his college career. He has always been a project with his greatest value anticipated being realized in years 3-4. He may be the best shooter in practice, but that hasn't translated to games and that is frustrating for us to watch, but he did make some timely shots against HBU. He needs some real world game experience if we hope he progresses to a solid piece in years 3-4. He looked like a deer in headlights last year, and it looks like the game has slowed down a bit for him this year. I don't want to see him transfer and hope he will be a key piece for years to come. Unfortunately, there are only so many minutes to distribute in a game, and DD probably isn't getting enough.

JC so far is a significant upgrade over PJC. One of the biggest complaints on this board was that PJC was unable to create his own shot making it easy for defenders to sag off him clogging up the scoring lanes. JC has been pretty good at getting penetration and dishing to the open shooter this year. I don't want him to be the next coming of PJC, and in order to keep defenses honest, he needs to be a scoring threat also.

goslingswagg wrote:Am I crazy to think maybe losing to ISU is better for us than beating them? Losing to ISU would let us play Illinois and then likely either Xavier or SDSU, all teams that are more in our wheelhouse. 2-1 would definitely be doable from there. Beating ISU means we likely play Gonzaga and then Auburn/Duke, which smells to me like a 1-2 overall tourney record. Just a thought...maybe already trying to rationalize a potential loss on Monday lol

I'm all about tourney profile in terms of what I want from Maui. ISU is a bubble team like us and those wins/losses help separate you. Getting two top level team helps our SOS, which is currently so so. Those losses don't really hurt our profile either. L's to bubble teams are killers in March. Losing to Duke or Zaga/Auburn is really not a loss.

Pulling an upset would be a huge resume builder.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

goslingswagg wrote:Am I crazy to think maybe losing to ISU is better for us than beating them? Losing to ISU would let us play Illinois and then likely either Xavier or SDSU, all teams that are more in our wheelhouse. 2-1 would definitely be doable from there. Beating ISU means we likely play Gonzaga and then Auburn/Duke, which smells to me like a 1-2 overall tourney record. Just a thought...maybe already trying to rationalize a potential loss on Monday lol

I'm all about tourney profile in terms of what I want from Maui. ISU is a bubble team like us and those wins/losses help separate you. Getting two top level team helps our SOS, which is currently so so. Those losses don't really hurt our profile either. L's to bubble teams are killers in March. Losing to Duke or Zaga/Auburn is really not a loss.

Pulling an upset would be a huge resume builder.

Agreed with all of this. Just wanted to put the thought out there, and allow myself to rationalize a loss on Monday.

Guys, guys...we want to play the best possible teams in Maui. I’m not sure how this is even debatable.

goslingswagg wrote:Agreed with all of this. Just wanted to put the thought out there, and allow myself to rationalize a loss on Monday.

I've kicked around the idea of 2-1 in the loser's bracket as well, likely for the same reason.

This is total loser talk. Win every fucking game you can

PHXCATS wrote:This is total loser talk. Win every fucking game you can

...we're not on the court. As fans, it doesn't matter one bit that we're worried about losing games.

I know this sounds insane... but I kinda want a shot at Duke. Would love to see CSM test his mettle against that team and what kind of game plan he would use.

on second thought...

baycat93 wrote:I know this sounds insane... but I kinda want a shot at Duke. Would love to see CSM test his mettle against that team and what kind of game plan he would use.

on second thought...

I'm legitimately afraid that Duke would break this team. But we'd have to beat the two 6'8" monsters at Gonzaga before we'd get a shot at beating the three 6'8" monsters at Duke. So I suppose if we can do the first thing we deserve the second.

We actually match up with Auburn well from a physical perspective - they play 6'8" Chuma Okeke at center and feature 5'11" PG Jared Harper at PG. Hoping we get a shot at them.

YoDeFoe wrote:

baycat93 wrote:I know this sounds insane... but I kinda want a shot at Duke. Would love to see CSM test his mettle against that team and what kind of game plan he would use.

on second thought...

I'm legitimately afraid that Duke would break this team. But we'd have to beat the two 6'8" monsters at Gonzaga before we'd get a shot at beating the three 6'8" monsters at Duke. So I suppose if we can do the first thing we deserve the second.

We actually match up with Auburn well from a physical perspective - they play 6'8" Chuma Okeke at center and feature 5'11" PG Jared Harper at PG. Hoping we get a shot at them.

I hear you YDF and 2-1 with wins over ISU and Auburn (top 10 team in their own right) would be a very good outcome. We will have to play pretty well to do it. Looking forward to next week.

ChooChooCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:
Barcello does everything good besides scoring. Good ball movement. Good defense.

The entire team does good ball movement. I've yet to see any impact he makes on defense. Literally the only thing you can say about Barcello at this point is he's there. That's it.

He doesn't do bad defensively. Every time Doutrive gets on the court he messes up rotations and closeouts.

SunnyAZ wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:
Barcello does everything good besides scoring. Good ball movement. Good defense.

The entire team does good ball movement. I've yet to see any impact he makes on defense. Literally the only thing you can say about Barcello at this point is he's there. That's it.

He doesn't do bad defensively. Every time Doutrive gets on the court he messes up rotations and closeouts.

You misspelled Barcello.

UConn just beat Syracuse so there's that.

goslingswagg wrote:Am I crazy to think maybe losing to ISU is better for us than beating them? Losing to ISU would let us play Illinois and then likely either Xavier or SDSU, all teams that are more in our wheelhouse. 2-1 would definitely be doable from there. Beating ISU means we likely play Gonzaga and then Auburn/Duke, which smells to me like a 1-2 overall tourney record. Just a thought...maybe already trying to rationalize a potential loss on Monday lol

ISU should finish 10th in the Big 12 this season. My money is on them against UA.

enfuego wrote:

goslingswagg wrote:Am I crazy to think maybe losing to ISU is better for us than beating them? Losing to ISU would let us play Illinois and then likely either Xavier or SDSU, all teams that are more in our wheelhouse. 2-1 would definitely be doable from there. Beating ISU means we likely play Gonzaga and then Auburn/Duke, which smells to me like a 1-2 overall tourney record. Just a thought...maybe already trying to rationalize a potential loss on Monday lol

ISU should finish 10th in the Big 12 this season. My money is on them against UA.

I'd feel terrible losing the allowance money my mom gave me if I were a 45 year old troll. Instead, save that so one day you can open a checking account for that sweet gaming chair you've had your eyes on from Amazon.

enfuego wrote:

goslingswagg wrote:Am I crazy to think maybe losing to ISU is better for us than beating them? Losing to ISU would let us play Illinois and then likely either Xavier or SDSU, all teams that are more in our wheelhouse. 2-1 would definitely be doable from there. Beating ISU means we likely play Gonzaga and then Auburn/Duke, which smells to me like a 1-2 overall tourney record. Just a thought...maybe already trying to rationalize a potential loss on Monday lol

ISU should finish 10th in the Big 12 this season. My money is on them against UA.

Maybe Kansas can get over the hump against ASU this year. Maybe.

Alieberman wrote:I don't care if we don't beat Gonzaga or Duke (that's a lie) I really want to play them though to see where we are

100% agree with this entire statement!

It's important to remember that as good as Duke is, their key players are very young. 66% of their scoring comes from those three freshmen stars. It's not hard to imagine a good defensive team slowing Duke down, forcing them to run halfcourt sets, keeping the game close and shooting a better FT%. Zion and Barrett are not good foul shooters.

Duke is going to win tons of games this year, finish 1st or 2nd in the ACC and probably earn a 1 or 2 seed in March. Then they'll get knocked out of the tourney by a Wichita State or a Purdue-type team, short of the FF.

I'd love to get a crack at Duke next week. And Gonzaga.

I think we can give Gonzaga a game. I think we would be run off the court against Duke.

goslingswagg wrote:I think we can give Gonzaga a game. I think we would be run off the court against Duke.

Ehh, Army hung with Duke for a long time at Cameron. They spread the floor, didn't turn the ball over and made threes. The game was single digits until 5-8 minutes left and Duke wore them down.

I don't think Duke is worth being scared over. They're obviously very good, but you can play with them if you don't feed what they do well. Let the game get loose and have Zion catching lobs on you and you'll get killed. Keep a controlled tempo with few mistakes and hit your shots and they're not unbeatable.

If you dont want to play Duke or Gonzaga you are a candy ass

↑↑↑↑lol↑↑↑↑

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I don't think Duke is worth being scared over. They're obviously very good, but you can play with them if you don't feed what they do well. Let the game get loose and have Zion catching lobs on you and you'll get killed. Keep a controlled tempo with few mistakes and hit your shots and they're not unbeatable.

I'm clearly flat out frightened by this Duke team, but I agree with your follow-up on why they're not so scary (in theory). My biggest concern is that their strengths in their size, toughness, and rebounding are our weaknesses.

Their size and rebounding are daunting. Not sure I am ready to give up this teams toughness to theirs just yet.

goslingswagg wrote:I think we can give Gonzaga a game. I think we would be run off the court against Duke.

I watched the Zags last night, they are one of the few legitimate teams out there because of Few, he has made a tradition of taking under-valued players from all over the map and creating a cohesive force that contributes to the ONE thing Gonzaga fans love...it is a well-oiled machine and deserves respect...they freaking dismantled Texas A@M last night and barely even tried...Zags will be in the FF again this year.

I find this team to be enormously easy to root for and I’m excited to see them against some quality competition.

I’m also really curious to what level Sean can coach them up.

baycat93 wrote:Their size and rebounding are daunting. Not sure I am ready to give up this teams toughness to theirs just yet.

Rebounding is our Achilles heel...it just hasn't twisted our ankles yet...go up against a strong rebounding team and it will reveal our flaws.

baycat93 wrote:Their size and rebounding are daunting. Not sure I am ready to give up this teams toughness to theirs just yet.

We're a finesse team. What was the marquee dunk of the cupcake games?

In our haste to get to Gonzaga, though, we sure as hell better be ready for ISU. They're probably a tournament team this year. If Wigginton is healthy, he's a guy who can hurt us on offense.