Bear Down Wildcats

This is going to be a painful next couple of years.

billk78 wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

ZONACAT wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I don't even care about the FBI stuff or no recruits. If I thought he was a good coach I would still want him, but that is not the case.

Miller is a fucking fantastic coach.

Agreed. Man I hope he stays so we can see what he will do with mid major talent that fits his scheme for a while

Also, I find it ironic that it looked like we forgot how to attack man to man defense, since we have been having only zone for what feels like forever. Ironic because we torched zones all year

Im still puzzled why he couldnt recruit guys that fit his scheme. It's U of A.

The guys who fit his scheme are 4 year, tough as nails guys. Expecially with his defense, requires experience top to bottom. Problem is you are expected to land one and doners, 5 star, Triers, etc.

ZONACAT wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:

ZONACAT wrote:

Newportcat wrote:

ZONACAT wrote:I'd be surprised if Miller doesn't walk.

Lute needs to ask, after the Warriors win another title, Kerr to save the program. Or Luke. Play the death card, I don't care. What's the point of having this huge Arizona basketball tree if they won't come back to save the roots. Kerr has nothing to prove in the NBA. Done it all.

Never happening in a million years

Literally never happening

I find this hard to believe. If this were Duke or UNC, those guys would run back. Why wouldn't they for Lute?

because Kerr has vehemently said over and over again for years now that he would never coach in college

Coaches lie. I find it really hard to believe that they are going to sit and let the program rot under some mid major schmuck. I don't want to believe it. Maybe it is true, and NBA money is all that matters to them, but I don't want to believe it.

Kerr will help with the next hire if asked to and he'd be an influential voice. He's not leaving the god damn NBA champions to coach this mess though, especially since he wants no part of recruiting. Quit living in a fantasy world.

Sean wasn't the problem. This team played with no passion or confidence today. I hope Sean stays and continues to work hard, clears his name and proves the doubter wrong. We just won the PAC by two full games. I think Lute did that once.

I agree with the 4 year guy's thing, but he had a 4 year PG and Center, 2 and 3 year wings and a once in a lifetime center.

TheCat wrote:Sean wasn't the problem. This team played with no passion or confidence today. I hope Sean stays and continues to work hard, clears his name and proves the doubter wrong. We just won the PAC by two full games. I think Lute did that once.

PAC was the 1st major conference since the last one was created ('97) to not get a team to the round of 32, so congrats?

he died with his PG - and took his form at the end too

Tired of getting all the 5 star players and get outcoached when it really matters.
Not recruiting to the needs of the packline defense, nor showing any effort to change the defense. Not evolving with the new trend of basketball.
And FWIW, I do not believe for a second that Book went rogue. Not in this day and age, not for a coach who has been in this game for that long. And HC has all the responsibily of making the program a clean program. That’s tone on the top, and the leaders need to be accountable in this situation.

TheCat wrote:Sean wasn't the problem. This team played with no passion or confidence today. I hope Sean stays and continues to work hard, clears his name and proves the doubter wrong. We just won the PAC by two full games. I think Lute did that once.

The PAC that has no teams remaining in the tournament. Big accomplishment. Although, I don't think the players gave a ton effort. Just seems like a pattern. Whose fault is that?

Abrahamarvel wrote:Tired of getting all the 5 star players....

don't have to worry about that anymore..

ZONACAT wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:

ZONACAT wrote:

Newportcat wrote:

ZONACAT wrote:I'd be surprised if Miller doesn't walk.

Lute needs to ask, after the Warriors win another title, Kerr to save the program. Or Luke. Play the death card, I don't care. What's the point of having this huge Arizona basketball tree if they won't come back to save the roots. Kerr has nothing to prove in the NBA. Done it all.

Never happening in a million years

Literally never happening

I find this hard to believe. If this were Duke or UNC, those guys would run back. Why wouldn't they for Lute?

because Kerr has vehemently said over and over again for years now that he would never coach in college

Coaches lie. I find it really hard to believe that they are going to sit and let the program rot under some mid major schmuck. I don't want to believe it. Maybe it is true, and NBA money is all that matters to them, but I don't want to believe it.

I know Luke, zero fucking chance he ever moves to Tucson to coach in college. ZERO

And Steve Kerr would never ever do it either

Miller is not the problem, though the offensive scheme was terrible. There were too many cuts in the middle and clogging of the lane. Noone stationed on the far wings. Couldnt capitalize on triple teaming Ayton. Like what were they doing?!?

Trier can get out. PJC was physically not big/strong enough. Rawle can’t shoot. Brandon is 0-for 2018.

Look forward to what the role players can do, but point guard play next year looks reeeealy shaky.

TheCat wrote:Sean wasn't the problem. This team played with no passion or confidence today. I hope Sean stays and continues to work hard, clears his name and proves the doubter wrong. We just won the PAC by two full games. I think Lute did that once.

The PAC12 is utterly horrendous as a basketball conference and it was proven in spades. The Buffalo team that just humiliated us may have won this shit conference by 3 games.

I agree totally 97. Someone commented recently about Sean yelling at PJC everytime down the floor. Made me wonder if Coach, consciously or not, didn't want pg who could run things himself and he was still the real pg. Either way, it killed us sticking with pjc.

Merkin wrote:

Three questions for the players. That's it.

Miller guy all the way here, so I can point out the fact that there is no soul-searching introspection being expressed publicly at this presser.

Miller reading from the Miller script here, and Buffalo deserves all the credit in the world.

But the embarrassment is not being expressed here. May never be. No vows to never put the program in this position again, no anger, no passion...you're left wondering if he is, indeed, done.

Or, at the very least, feeling as if he has coached his career into a corner with a poor postseason system and an unsupportive conference, to say the least.

97cats wrote:he may flatline with that PG he rode two seasons too long.

Someday I really want to know the backstory as to why he stuck with PJC the last two seasons.

CalStateTempe wrote:

97cats wrote:he may flatline with that PG he rode two seasons too long.

Someday I really want to know the backstory as to why he stuck with PJC the last two seasons.

+1

CalStateTempe wrote:

97cats wrote:he may flatline with that PG he rode two seasons too long.

Someday I really want to know the backstory as to why he stuck with PJC the last two seasons.

Yes, it's mind boggling.

Merkin wrote:

FUCK ESPN. FUCK THEM TO HELL.

billk78 wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I don't even care about the FBI stuff or no recruits. If I thought he was a good coach I would still want him, but that is not the case.

He's a good recruiter and an above average coach.
The problem is he doesn't recruit the right players for his system.

Which is his problem; he’s a system coach. No creativity and too stubborn to change. How can you recruit a greater when you hands will be tied the moment you get here?

zonagrad wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

97cats wrote:he may flatline with that PG he rode two seasons too long.

Someday I really want to know the backstory as to why he stuck with PJC the last two seasons.

Yes, it's mind boggling.

Same, but with Trier.

I don't think he ever felt enough heat from Miller and left Arizona little better than when he arrived.

CalStateTempe wrote:

billk78 wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I don't even care about the FBI stuff or no recruits. If I thought he was a good coach I would still want him, but that is not the case.

He's a good recruiter and an above average coach.
The problem is he doesn't recruit the right players for his system.

Which is his problem; he’s a system coach. No creativity and too stubborn to change. How can you recruit a greater when you hands will be tied the moment you get here?

Do we trust Miller to become an innovator? If he's allowed to stay, he needs to get rid of the packline and his slow-it-down offense. Try something new with probably two years worth of scholarship reductions. The system needs to go more than anything else.

catgrad97 wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

97cats wrote:he may flatline with that PG he rode two seasons too long.

Someday I really want to know the backstory as to why he stuck with PJC the last two seasons.

Yes, it's mind boggling.

Same, but with Trier.

I don't think he ever felt enough heat from Miller and left Arizona little better than when he arrived.

I think if Randolph was the player we thought he would be when he arrived, then Trier would've felt a ton of heat.

TatetheGreat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

billk78 wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I don't even care about the FBI stuff or no recruits. If I thought he was a good coach I would still want him, but that is not the case.

He's a good recruiter and an above average coach.
The problem is he doesn't recruit the right players for his system.

Which is his problem; he’s a system coach. No creativity and too stubborn to change. How can you recruit a greater when you hands will be tied the moment you get here?

Do we trust Miller to become an innovator? If he's allowed to stay, he needs to get rid of the packline and his slow-it-down offense. Try something new with probably two years worth of scholarship reductions. The system needs to go more than anything else.

He either needs to change his recruiting style or his coaching style. The two don't go together.

Give me more kevin parroms, Kadeem Allens, Nick Johnsons and less Trier and PJCs. Looks for leaders and guys who play hard and love the game. Keeanu Pinder was our best player tonight.

zonagrad wrote:

catgrad97 wrote:

zonagrad wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

97cats wrote:he may flatline with that PG he rode two seasons too long.

Someday I really want to know the backstory as to why he stuck with PJC the last two seasons.

Yes, it's mind boggling.

Same, but with Trier.

I don't think he ever felt enough heat from Miller and left Arizona little better than when he arrived.

I think if Randolph was the player we thought he would be when he arrived, then Trier would've felt a ton of heat.

I think the talent is there with Randolph but he just wasnt quite ready. if he stays he's our best player next year. Not saying much, but he could do well with big minutes.

ZONACAT wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I don't even care about the FBI stuff or no recruits. If I thought he was a good coach I would still want him, but that is not the case.

Miller is a fucking fantastic coach.

Most of you guys can’t possibly know this, but zonacat is an absolute nut job and that apparently extends to basketball coaching as well.

TatetheGreat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

billk78 wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I don't even care about the FBI stuff or no recruits. If I thought he was a good coach I would still want him, but that is not the case.

He's a good recruiter and an above average coach.
The problem is he doesn't recruit the right players for his system.

Which is his problem; he’s a system coach. No creativity and too stubborn to change. How can you recruit a greater when you hands will be tied the moment you get here?

Do we trust Miller to become an innovator? If he's allowed to stay, he needs to get rid of the packline and his slow-it-down offense. Try something new with probably two years worth of scholarship reductions. The system needs to go more than anything else.

It's not the packline. Fuck, Virginia is the number one team in the country and just won the ACC without 5* recruits. All they do is run packline.

We had a major, MAJOR personnel problem at point guard. And the combination of that point guard with the skill set of a guy like Trier and an immobile player like Ristic made us a horrible matchup for certain teams -- teams like Buffalo. Look at how Colorado played us this year. They're a poor man's version of Buffalo. If McKinley Wright doesn't go down with an injury in the Pac 12 tourney, we have our hands full right to the buzzer.

I get the despair and need to do a postmortem (I lived in Tucson during the Santa Clara/ETSU years), but honestly, how different would this team look with just one change - a good PG, say even TJ?

What I don't understand is with 3 or 4 minutes left and 15 or so points down, why is there no hurry up offense? No urgency? We are bringing the ball up the floor like we are leading by 15

Parker Jackson-Cartwright on the loss to Buffalo:

“They punched us in the mouth from the beginning and even though we were down two at the half, it felt like we were down 15. They stole our pride from us today.”

i having nothing to say

I think at this point it’s a pretty bold statement to say Miller is a fantastic coach

I get saying that in 2015. But today, just really tough to see how someone can say that

I think he is a good coach. But fantastic seems like a major stretch

waysouthcat wrote:I get the despair and need to do a postmortem (I lived in Tucson during the Santa Clara/ETSU years), but honestly, how different would this team look with just one change - a good PG, say even TJ?

Give me TJ and Kadeem in place of PJC and Trier and this is a final 4 team.

billk78 wrote:

waysouthcat wrote:I get the despair and need to do a postmortem (I lived in Tucson during the Santa Clara/ETSU years), but honestly, how different would this team look with just one change - a good PG, say even TJ?

Give me TJ and Kadeem in place of PJC and Trier and this is a final 4 team.

Besides pretty good ball players, those guys were leaders, something this current team never had.

The bad news: Miller hitched his ride to a PG and an assistant coach that both took out his knees, his pride and his success.

The good news: both of them are gone.

The unknown: is he?

97cats wrote:Parker Jackson-Cartwright on the loss to Buffalo:

“They punched us in the mouth from the beginning and even though we were down two at the half, it felt like we were down 15. They stole our pride from us today.”

i having nothing to say

That's exactly the way the team played. Like they gave up after 5 minutes. Id feel much worse if I thought the players actually cared as much as us fans. I didnt see that tonight. Just flat and uninspired....kinda like PJC

Merkin wrote:

billk78 wrote:

waysouthcat wrote:I get the despair and need to do a postmortem (I lived in Tucson during the Santa Clara/ETSU years), but honestly, how different would this team look with just one change - a good PG, say even TJ?

Give me TJ and Kadeem in place of PJC and Trier and this is a final 4 team.

Besides pretty good ball players, those guys were leaders, something this current team never had.

Yes!!! Leadership, emotion and a true PG all lacking. If you ever have the chance read the book "The Captain Class" by Sam Walker. It talks about how important leadership is in sports.

Olsondogg wrote:The bad news: Miller hitched his ride to a PG and an assistant coach that both took out his knees, his pride and his success.

The good news: both of them are gone.

The unknown: is he?

solid post and the question you want answered is I don’t know - but this had a bit of a feel of the end to it.

catgrad97 wrote:

Merkin wrote:

Three questions for the players. That's it.

Miller guy all the way here, so I can point out the fact that there is no soul-searching introspection being expressed publicly at this presser.

Miller reading from the Miller script here, and Buffalo deserves all the credit in the world.

But the embarrassment is not being expressed here. May never be. No vows to never put the program in this position again, no anger, no passion...you're left wondering if he is, indeed, done.

Or, at the very least, feeling as if he has coached his career into a corner with a poor postseason system and an unsupportive conference, to say the least.

This is a very astute observation. Since the “I’m back pressor” millers pressors have been more subdued and he’s appeared in some ways broken. Understandably so.

Even after yesterday pregame pressor, I was wondering if we were entering into millers last stretch of games at Arizona, just his intonation seemed different.

We got our “one last walk at night” and sadly it wasn’t as long as we all had hoped for, and at then end if it, much like when couples go on these type of walks, all parties might be realizing that the moment has passed. And it sad,

But ultimately for the best.

Quoting 97, “Sometimes a change in scenery is the best for all involved”.

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:The bad news: Miller hitched his ride to a PG and an assistant coach that both took out his knees, his pride and his success.

The good news: both of them are gone.

The unknown: is he?

solid post and the question you want answered is I don’t know - but this had a bit of a feel of the end to it.

Yup. Wife said “he looks defeated”.

waysouthcat wrote:I get the despair and need to do a postmortem (I lived in Tucson during the Santa Clara/ETSU years), but honestly, how different would this team look with just one change - a good PG, say even TJ?

Yep. Been saying it all season that PJC is not even a Pac 12 caliber point guard. Maybe Big Sky. Take the point guards from UCLA, USC, ASU, WSU, OU, CU, Utah and you have a final four caliber team. The only reason PJC was able to have the decent stat lines that he had is because opponents left him open. All attention was on stopping Ayton, Trier and others. Practically dared PJC to beat them. A point guard who could attack the rim and finish and this team would be unstoppable.

billk78 wrote:
That's exactly the way the team played. Like they gave up after 5 minutes. Id feel much worse if I thought the players actually cared as much as us fans. I didnt see that tonight. Just flat and uninspired....kinda like PJC

that quote is unbelievable how it perfectly incapsulates Arizona’s performance - scary

97cats wrote:Parker Jackson-Cartwright on the loss to Buffalo:

“They punched us in the mouth from the beginning and even though we were down two at the half, it felt like we were down 15. They stole our pride from us today.”

i having nothing to say

Wet toilet paper mental toughness

Completely ignoring everything involving the investigation, there is PLENTY there to say bye bye based on performance purposes only. Wont state the obvious re: Failure to do shit with Ayton (GOAT) and Lauri. Looking at the totality of it all, we are pretty much in the same position we were when we hired Miller. Cupboard bare, some remaining scraps who could still transfer, nothing coming in.

zonagrad wrote:It's not the packline. Fuck, Virginia is the number one team in the country and just won the ACC without 5* recruits. All they do is run packline.

I had to look that up. Per Rivals:

2018 2 3 stars (so far)
2017 2 3 stars
2016 4 4 stars
2015 1 3 star 1 4 star
2014 1 3 star 2 4 stars and 1 0 stars

Damn.

I will say, Miller is a “fuck the paradigm” kinda guy. For better or worse. My gut says he looks around, especially after Cal is free on Sunday— but comes back to prove himself.

97cats wrote:Parker Jackson-Cartwright on the loss to Buffalo:

“They punched us in the mouth from the beginning and even though we were down two at the half, it felt like we were down 15. They stole our pride from us today.”

i having nothing to say

Smh

zonagrad wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

CalStateTempe wrote:

billk78 wrote:

SunnyAZ wrote:I don't even care about the FBI stuff or no recruits. If I thought he was a good coach I would still want him, but that is not the case.

He's a good recruiter and an above average coach.
The problem is he doesn't recruit the right players for his system.

Which is his problem; he’s a system coach. No creativity and too stubborn to change. How can you recruit a greater when you hands will be tied the moment you get here?

Do we trust Miller to become an innovator? If he's allowed to stay, he needs to get rid of the packline and his slow-it-down offense. Try something new with probably two years worth of scholarship reductions. The system needs to go more than anything else.

It's not the packline. Fuck, Virginia is the number one team in the country and just won the ACC without 5* recruits. All they do is run packline.

We had a major, MAJOR personnel problem at point guard. And the combination of that point guard with the skill set of a guy like Trier and an immobile player like Ristic made us a horrible matchup for certain teams -- teams like Buffalo. Look at how Colorado played us this year. They're a poor man's version of Buffalo. If McKinley Wright doesn't go down with an injury in the Pac 12 tourney, we have our hands full right to the buzzer.

Let's revisit this if UVA gets to the FF.

The more I think about it, I see no scenario under which Miller is our coach next year. Think he takes the year off, gets his name fully cleared and move on to a job in the east.

Honestly can’t say if it would upset me that much. Feels like massive change is needed given everything going on. Do think we will be in for some dark days but you never know

Thought the same in 2009 and then 2011 happened