Bear Down Wildcats

Fish, are you streaming? I don't have Peacock anymore

84Cat wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 1:33 pm Fish, are you streaming? I don't have Peacock anymore

Ditto! If you are streaming Fish, can you please shoot a link my way?

Nah not today, going over to my mom's to watch the basketball game and then potentially going to the football game after depending on the score

Just to put tonight in perspective, this is our first loss in November under Tommy.

Refs made the game unwatchable. Ticky tack bullshit calls is why people hate watching college ball.

AZCatGirl wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:19 pm Just to put tonight in perspective, this is our first loss in November under Tommy.

Refs made the game unwatchable. Ticky tack bullshit calls is why people hate watching college ball.

Congratulations on not going to the football game

PHXCATS wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:33 pm

AZCatGirl wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:19 pm Just to put tonight in perspective, this is our first loss in November under Tommy.

Refs made the game unwatchable. Ticky tack bullshit calls is why people hate watching college ball.

Congratulations on not going to the football game

Are you at the football game?

AZCatGirl wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:35 pm

PHXCATS wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:33 pm

AZCatGirl wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:19 pm Just to put tonight in perspective, this is our first loss in November under Tommy.

Refs made the game unwatchable. Ticky tack bullshit calls is why people hate watching college ball.

Congratulations on not going to the football game

Are you at the football game?

Of course i am

PHXCATS wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:48 pm

AZCatGirl wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:35 pm

PHXCATS wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:33 pm

AZCatGirl wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:19 pm Just to put tonight in perspective, this is our first loss in November under Tommy.

Refs made the game unwatchable. Ticky tack bullshit calls is why people hate watching college ball.

Congratulations on not going to the football game

Are you at the football game?

Of course i am

Good for you for being a good fan. I need to save my money to move to Poland.

It's early. Lots of adjustments to all the new personnel. yada, yada...

But, Caleb is not playing anywhere near to expectations yet.

pc in NM wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:18 am It's early. Lots of adjustments to all the new personnel. yada, yada...

But, Caleb is not playing anywhere near to expectations yet.

But isn’t this kinda who Caleb is? He can just easily put up a line like last night as he can one where he gets 25, 5 and 5.

Bradley and Lewis look very good.

Overall, a very disappointing loss that we’ll be hearing about all season.

pc in NM wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 8:18 am It's early. Lots of adjustments to all the new personnel. yada, yada...

But, Caleb is not playing anywhere near to expectations yet.

Agree in general but what you got from Love in a big road/neutral game vs a quality opponent last night is exactly what you should expect. Not 100% of the time obviously but with an uncomfortable frequency.

What happened last night is emblematic of why I was surprised Lloyd allowed Love to come back. Maybe that was a reflection of Arizona’s NIL I dunno but unless last night was a 1 off I am going to be disappointed in Lloyd’s decision in addition to being surprised.

The lazy don’t understand college hoops reaction is “of course you take Love back he was the P12 POY” but unless Love improves his play in big games he is going to cost the Cats multiple games and play Arizona out of the NCAA Tournament again.

And last night was a very bad look.

One we have all seen multiple times.

I don't recall UNC shedding any tears when Love transferred out.

AZCatGirl wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:19 pm Just to put tonight in perspective, this is our first loss in November under Tommy.

Tommy has also never lost 2 in a row.

Love will really need to get his act together against Duke or his legacy will be that he could never get going in big games.

Although he will never shed the chucker label.

Very unimpressed with Love all year so far. Also Dell Orso, who played mostly in his stead, is a huge defensive liability.

4-24 from three will get you beat every night on the road in the 12. Also, why play two 7’ when they can’t score?

This was so reminiscent of the Clemson gane where only Bradley could beat his guy off the dribble and score, especially early

Love was always prone to the random clunker, but now they are coming with more frequency. When the announcer said “he will learn from this” my reaction was “Uh shouldn’t he have by now?”

Pops Caleb is 23, his basketball game is set for life.

Love shooting 35% FGs (44% 2PT, 26% 3PT) is really unacceptable, being that the first 2 games were just really extended exhibitions.

And how can the starting 2G only shoot 2 FTs so far this season? That's Kerr Kriisa bad.

His defense last night was pretty soft too, but it was good to see him get on the floor and try and get a loose ball.

People already hating on Love. WTF

Game yesterday meant absolutely nothing

I don’t think is hating but it is being critical of his play. So far he has not played well and his play since he has been with us has been inconsistent at best, especially in big games, which I thought this was

Tommy loves the kid and backed him in the presser. Interesting to see if he rebounds against Duke.

Merkin wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 10:33 am Pops Caleb is 23, his basketball game is set for life.

Love shooting 35% FGs (44% 2PT, 26% 3PT) is really unacceptable, being that the first 2 games were just really extended exhibitions.

And how can the starting 2G only shoot 2 FTs so far this season? That's Kerr Kriisa bad.

His defense last night was pretty soft too, but it was good to see him get on the floor and try and get a loose ball.

Holy shit

PHXCATS wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:20 am Holy shit

Am I wrong?

Merkin wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:27 am

PHXCATS wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:20 am Holy shit

Am I wrong?

Always are

PHXCATS wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:48 am

Merkin wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:27 am

PHXCATS wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:20 am Holy shit

Am I wrong?

Always are

http://www.beardownwildcats.com/viewtop ... =11&t=8165

azcat49 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:43 am Also Dell Orso, who played mostly in his stead, is a huge defensive liability.

Outside of the officials and Love this was story #3 for me last night.

Arizona came in to this season with a bunch of questions, one of the most significant being outside shooting.

So, ADO addresses that for sure. But, he is so bad defensively you almost can’t play him. This one likely also isn’t fixable as ADO is who he is at this point. Maybe he was the best Lloyd could get but you almost have to go to a zone when he is on the floor. I can’t even imagine how bad his defensive numbers were last night.

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:24 pm

azcat49 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:43 am Also Dell Orso, who played mostly in his stead, is a huge defensive liability.

Outside of the officials and Love this was story #3 for me last night.

Arizona came in to this season with a bunch of questions, one of the most significant being outside shooting.

So, ADO addresses that for sure. But, he is so bad defensively you almost can’t play him. This one likely also isn’t fixable as ADO is who he is at this point. Maybe he was the best Lloyd could get but you almost have to go to a zone when he is on the floor. I can’t even imagine how bad his defensive numbers were last night.

Truthfully, why not go zone? Arizona having coaches allergic to the defense since Lute left is certainly odd. I definitely don't want to play zone as our base defense ever, but if you got ADO out there and he can't stay in front of his guy then zone away.

Dell'Orso's +/- was -21, which was the worst on the team. Bradley, Townsend and Awaka all had double digit negative +/- scores.

Only Krivas had a positive +/- of 6.

Merkin wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:27 am

PHXCATS wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:20 am Holy shit

Am I wrong?

Nope

It honestly looked like Tommy needed one more cream puff game to figure out our rotations. There were a few line ups that were head scratchers.

If there's one thing I learned from last night's game, it's that this board wont be very fun once Big 12 play starts.

ChooChooCat wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:38 pm

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:24 pm

azcat49 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:43 am Also Dell Orso, who played mostly in his stead, is a huge defensive liability.

Outside of the officials and Love this was story #3 for me last night.

Arizona came in to this season with a bunch of questions, one of the most significant being outside shooting.

So, ADO addresses that for sure. But, he is so bad defensively you almost can’t play him. This one likely also isn’t fixable as ADO is who he is at this point. Maybe he was the best Lloyd could get but you almost have to go to a zone when he is on the floor. I can’t even imagine how bad his defensive numbers were last night.

Truthfully, why not go zone? Arizona having coaches allergic to the defense since Lute left is certainly odd. I definitely don't want to play zone as our base defense ever, but if you got ADO out there and he can't stay in front of his guy then zone away.

Agreed, and at times I thought Miller would play 1 possession of zone only to send a message to me. But obviously you can’t go to zone only and every time ADO checks in. Wondering if Lloyd ever scoped Delly’s tape?

AZCatGirl wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:22 pm If there's one thing I learned from last night's game, it's that this board wont be very fun once Big 12 play starts.

Not if we’re getting blown out every night.

Chicat wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:03 pm It honestly looked like Tommy needed one more cream puff game to figure out our rotations. There were a few line ups that were head scratchers.

Seems like a lot of guys on the bench. Possibly too many.

Chicat wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:03 pm It honestly looked like Tommy needed one more cream puff game to figure out our rotations. There were a few line ups that were head scratchers.

Said this to my girl while I was at the game. Some weird rotations

Zonawildcat3 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:38 pm

Chicat wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 2:03 pm It honestly looked like Tommy needed one more cream puff game to figure out our rotations. There were a few line ups that were head scratchers.

Said this to my girl while I was at the game. Some weird rotations

Stems from Lloyd’s roster being weird.

Maybe he finds a way to work it out and maybe that includes it taking some time to get rolling and not fading at the end of the season as has become his teams’ norm but here are some questions the curious Arizona Fan could ask themselves:

1. Does Arizona have a backup PG that it can play?

2. Does Arizona have a SG that can shoot?

3. Is Townsend “big/good enough” to play the 4 in a Big 4 conference?

4. Is Awaka “tall/good enough” to play the 5?

5. Is Veesaar really a PF?

6. Can you play Dell Orso at any position?

Wisky definitely exposed some questions and maybe even an answer or 2. Duke, the Bahamas, and UCLA will do the same. Which is one great thing about a legit OOC schedule: you know what you have and don’t have quickly.

1) no, not at least with any efficiency. The drop off has been huge

2) not with any consistency. Teams are going to dare us to shoot those until we start making them.

3) it’s where he feels most comfortable but he needs to show he can take that bigger 4 off the bounce

4) his effort and toughness will always be there so I think he can be effective as a 5 when needed

5) Not unless Lloyd shows he will play zone

Would have liked to see more of Martinez v. Wisky. Like Lute said, the sole role of the backup point guard is not lose the lead. Or in this case, don't increase the deficit!

Conrad has no TOs this season, and 3 in 19 games last season. He is also a real pesky defender.

Awaka had 13 rebounds v. Wisky. Veesar and Krivas had 10 combined.

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:23 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:38 pm

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:24 pm

azcat49 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:43 am Also Dell Orso, who played mostly in his stead, is a huge defensive liability.

Outside of the officials and Love this was story #3 for me last night.

Arizona came in to this season with a bunch of questions, one of the most significant being outside shooting.

So, ADO addresses that for sure. But, he is so bad defensively you almost can’t play him. This one likely also isn’t fixable as ADO is who he is at this point. Maybe he was the best Lloyd could get but you almost have to go to a zone when he is on the floor. I can’t even imagine how bad his defensive numbers were last night.

Truthfully, why not go zone? Arizona having coaches allergic to the defense since Lute left is certainly odd. I definitely don't want to play zone as our base defense ever, but if you got ADO out there and he can't stay in front of his guy then zone away.

Agreed, and at times I thought Miller would play 1 possession of zone only to send a message to me. But obviously you can’t go to zone only and every time ADO checks in. Wondering if Lloyd ever scoped Delly’s tape?

I did, and had legitimate bump in competition questions. We all knew the defense would be bad, but this is something worse.

What do you think about scheduling these kind of games this early in the season?

TucsonClip wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:24 am

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:23 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:38 pm

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:24 pm

azcat49 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:43 am Also Dell Orso, who played mostly in his stead, is a huge defensive liability.

Outside of the officials and Love this was story #3 for me last night.

Arizona came in to this season with a bunch of questions, one of the most significant being outside shooting.

So, ADO addresses that for sure. But, he is so bad defensively you almost can’t play him. This one likely also isn’t fixable as ADO is who he is at this point. Maybe he was the best Lloyd could get but you almost have to go to a zone when he is on the floor. I can’t even imagine how bad his defensive numbers were last night.

Truthfully, why not go zone? Arizona having coaches allergic to the defense since Lute left is certainly odd. I definitely don't want to play zone as our base defense ever, but if you got ADO out there and he can't stay in front of his guy then zone away.

Agreed, and at times I thought Miller would play 1 possession of zone only to send a message to me. But obviously you can’t go to zone only and every time ADO checks in. Wondering if Lloyd ever scoped Delly’s tape?

I did, and had legitimate bump in competition questions. We all knew the defense would be bad, but this is something worse.

Pretty sure I read that scout before I bailed.

Its a double edged sword Dave but what happened Friday night may end up being hugely important to this squad.

Also to date imo Lloyd has shown he can handle not scheduling like a control freak fraidy Cat.

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:23 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:38 pm

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:24 pm

azcat49 wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 9:43 am Also Dell Orso, who played mostly in his stead, is a huge defensive liability.

Outside of the officials and Love this was story #3 for me last night.

Arizona came in to this season with a bunch of questions, one of the most significant being outside shooting.

So, ADO addresses that for sure. But, he is so bad defensively you almost can’t play him. This one likely also isn’t fixable as ADO is who he is at this point. Maybe he was the best Lloyd could get but you almost have to go to a zone when he is on the floor. I can’t even imagine how bad his defensive numbers were last night.

Truthfully, why not go zone? Arizona having coaches allergic to the defense since Lute left is certainly odd. I definitely don't want to play zone as our base defense ever, but if you got ADO out there and he can't stay in front of his guy then zone away.

Agreed, and at times I thought Miller would play 1 possession of zone only to send a message to me. But obviously you can’t go to zone only and every time ADO checks in. Wondering if Lloyd ever scoped Delly’s tape?

No I'm sure Lloyd took him without ever looking at a tape of him. Pretty stupid but that is how this site usually gets after a loss. ADO was also shooting about 25% until Wiskey. But it is obvious he can shoot.

Winger wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:48 pm

TucsonClip wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 11:24 am

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:23 pm

ChooChooCat wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:38 pm

Winger wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 12:24 pm

Outside of the officials and Love this was story #3 for me last night.

Arizona came in to this season with a bunch of questions, one of the most significant being outside shooting.

So, ADO addresses that for sure. But, he is so bad defensively you almost can’t play him. This one likely also isn’t fixable as ADO is who he is at this point. Maybe he was the best Lloyd could get but you almost have to go to a zone when he is on the floor. I can’t even imagine how bad his defensive numbers were last night.

Truthfully, why not go zone? Arizona having coaches allergic to the defense since Lute left is certainly odd. I definitely don't want to play zone as our base defense ever, but if you got ADO out there and he can't stay in front of his guy then zone away.

Agreed, and at times I thought Miller would play 1 possession of zone only to send a message to me. But obviously you can’t go to zone only and every time ADO checks in. Wondering if Lloyd ever scoped Delly’s tape?

I did, and had legitimate bump in competition questions. We all knew the defense would be bad, but this is something worse.

Pretty sure I read that scout before I bailed.

Its a double edged sword Dave but what happened Friday night may end up being hugely important to this squad.

Also to date imo Lloyd has shown he can handle not scheduling like a control freak fraidy Cat.

Here are a few of my takes this past spring compiled into one.



The baskets he was scoring at Campbell he's not getting against better competition, and he's not iso-ing through an entire team with no rim protection, and as nearly the tallest guy on the floor much of the time.

If he can prove to be a knock down shooter, his penetration game will open up, and obviously our system will get him open shots from three.

I'll leave it there and see how he looks. He's got skill, plenty of it, but we've had those guys (and with size to match) who haven't panned out. I do think he's more functional than those guys because of how he can use ball screens, which is a requirement from guards here to see the floor, especially if you cant defend.

My expectations are essentially undeveloped. Same with Jamari. Dell'Orso has to knock down open shots, or I don't think it's going to go nearly as well as some think.

----

I'm not sure I need to watch him against those other teams (against their league opponents). Going to need to see him in a UA uniform to have a solid opinion. Overall, I'm just saying I'm not expecting a 18.6% DRB%, but am expecting his 30% USG to fall off a cliff, his 54% eFG% to potentially slide, and not sure if he's 38% or 32% (freshman year) from three. He's not bringing much on defense either.

I know they aren't the same player, but Ceds efficiency and usage slid when coming here, but he got more catch and shoot 3s so he shot 40% from deep. I would think itf Dell'Orso is a solid shooter he should be able to knock down clean looks. His off the dribble game is going to need to adjust to Big 12 play, quite a bit. That said, he can run some backup PG if needed.

Again, gives me Bal and Boro vibes. That's not exactly a compliment, because neither guy could cut it here. Even after Bal left, I didn't think he was that good either.

Again, if he's the 8th man, that's fine. But I'm keeping my eye on Jamari and how he develops.

----

We can leave it there for now, as it's still early. I think the most alarming thing is

1. His defense is even worse than anticipated
2. His eFG% is just as bad.

Long ways to go, but not a great start.

Dave wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:08 pm What do you think about scheduling these kind of games this early in the season?

Made sense when we were part of the Pac 12, but now that we're part of the Big 12 we don't need to do this to ourselves. This game was the second of a home and home, much like Duke will be. Not expecting Tommy to do these kinds of out of conference games going forward. I think teams like UCLA will probably be as tough as we get.

Luckily for us the pre-season tournaments are going to be mostly cupcakes going forward. Look how awful the Maui lineup is when we appear in it next.

I'd rather play a team like the Cheese People than ODU or canisius. I think we would have been better off if we could have played a stronger opponent in game 2. In the long run it shouldn't matter now that we are in B16.

A frickin' Dukie calling the game? Should have Matt Muehlebach work along him to balance things out.

If you’re going to lose 8 poll spots going on the road to play in tough environments like in Madison in the non-con the incentive will be to just stay home and play cupcakes if you play a killer conference schedule like the Big XII.

Convince me we can win on Friday.

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:38 pm Convince me we can win on Friday.

Because Duke is our bitch from Lute to Tommy and coming off an embarrassing loss we will go in dry

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:38 pm Convince me we can win on Friday.

4-24

TheCat wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2024 7:02 am

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:38 pm Convince me we can win on Friday.

4-24

That's what Duke shot in their loss to UK or us?

Beachcat97 wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:38 pm Convince me we can win on Friday.

If there are less than 45 foul shots, combined, we win by double figures