Outside The Lines story on Baillie Gibson & Craig Carter

[Irish27]

Just watched ESPN's Outside The Lines story on former track athlete Baillie Gibson and former assistant coach Craig Carter and it does not paint a nice picture for the athletic department, especially Greg Byrne and Fred Harvey. It seems both Byrne and Harvey could of put an end to the player/coach relationship when finding out about it but they only asked Carter about it, they never went to Gibson. A year and a half later, the story broke out and Carter was arrested. There are tape recordings of Carter threatening to kill Baillie, her roommate/teammate Julie Labonte, Baillie's mom and himself. Both Greg Byrne and Fred Harvey declined to be interviewed and the UofA only sent out a statement to ESPN. Cater goes to trial later this year and could get 30 years if found guilty. Gibson is suing Harvey, Byrne and the UofA, and I think it would be best if the UofA settle this out of court.

[NYCat]

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/ ... topped-him" target="_blank

Not a good look for the University I think. Surprised they didn't get the Pitts story.

[Merkin]

Quite upsetting story.

[Irish27]

[ChooChooCat]

Obviously not a great thing for Arizona, but this probably hurts Byrne's reputation more than anything. Harvey too of course.

[prh]

When I read this story earlier, I was wondering if this was part of the stuff Chief was hinting about when GB left.

[Irish27]

Obviously not a great thing for Arizona, but this probably hurts Byrne's reputation more than anything. Harvey too of course.

It definitely puts a blackeye on GB's reputation.

[Merkin]

[ChooChooCat]

Keith Law loves Arizona doesn't he?

[SirClinks]

The story is on the front page of espn right now. Horrible stuff and really makes me think less of GB. Really just makes me concerned about the entire athletic department really.

[UAEebs86]

And Heeke gets to clean up the mess.

[CatsbyAZ]

With all the fallout at Baylor and Minnesota in just the past year, Heeke has a blueprint on what not to do/say. Do/say what you have to, even if it hurts at the time and paints the Athletic Department in a bad light. That bad light will be forgotten as soon as the next scandal strikes somewhere else in a few months. But please, do the right thing.

[CatsbyAZ]

The story is on the front page of espn right now. Horrible stuff and really makes me think less of GB. Really just makes me concerned about the entire athletic department really.

If anything, it shows that in situations like this our Athletic Department is at the hands of its lawyers. The article consensus wants Byrne to have done more to reach out to Baillie, but what if his lawyers held him back?

At the least, I can't imagine that during the times Byrne had to meet with the lawyers as to what to do about Carter, there wasn't mention of whether any response was due to the victims.

[CalStateTempe]

God dammit. Btw this, OND in BB, and a toilet of a FB team, my college sports fandom is taking some hits. Add in my new hobbies and kids and there is just less time to devote to keeping up with it, which at this point in my life is honestly a good thing.

[Dosia]

Jesus Christ. What a failure on the ADs part.

[zonagrad]

The story is on the front page of espn right now. Horrible stuff and really makes me think less of GB. Really just makes me concerned about the entire athletic department really.

If anything, it shows that in situations like this our Athletic Department is at the hands of its lawyers. The article consensus wants Byrne to have done more to reach out to Baillie, but what if his lawyers held him back?

At the least, I can't imagine that during the times Byrne had to meet with the lawyers as to what to do about Carter, there wasn't mention of whether any response was due to the victims.

I think at institutions like Arizona (and L'Ville, Minnesota, Baylor, etc...) the CEO's (AD's, Presidents) don't want the pressure of having to make a decision when they don't have all the facts. It's akin to a head coach not wanting any responsibility in the decision-making process of when to play an injured player. Lute Olson would simply defer to the medical staff. Only if a player was cleared to physically perform would Lute play him. If not, then he wouldn't play. That way, Lute didn't have to shoulder the responsibility.

In hindsight, these stories look terrible. But when these stories are unfolding, not all sides have all the facts and information at their disposal. So they follow a protocol that will guide their decision making. The victim here clearly had multiple opportunities to blow the whistle on the psycho coach. This is certainly not "blame the victim" but the reality is that there were suspicions but not enough fact. There are always rumors and innuendo in any organization or business that, if accepted as fact, could get a lot of people wrongly accused or in trouble.

To play Devils Advocate, how much information did Byrne have other than some third party rumors and suspicions? I think a lot of people could have and should have done more to resolve and de-escalate a terrible situation. And that ultimately starts with the victim.

[Merkin]

Carter found guilty, faces 15-23 years.

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... &id=201408" target="_blank

[Chicat]

Bye bye piece of shit.

[Irish27]

Sentenced to 5 years. The UofA is going to have to settle out-of-court with her, they don't want this to get ugly. In my opinion, Heeke needs to clean house and fire all the track coaches.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor ... ars-prison" target="_blank

[Newportcat]

Sentenced to 5 years. The UofA is going to have to settle out-of-court with her, they don't want this to get ugly. In my opinion, Heeke needs to clean house and fire all the track coaches.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor ... ars-prison" target="_blank

I disagree. Fred Harvey is a very good man who made a bad mistake in not talking to his athlete too about rumors they had been told. But Fred feels awful about this entire situation and the U of A has taken all the necessary steps to ensure it will not happen again. No one cares more about Track & Field here then I do and I can tell you that Fred Harvey is a great man and his athletes adore him.

[Chicat]

Sentenced to 5 years.

What happened to him being up for 15-23 years?
(No, I didn’t take the link and give ESPN a click.)

[Irish27]

Sentenced to 5 years. The UofA is going to have to settle out-of-court with her, they don't want this to get ugly. In my opinion, Heeke needs to clean house and fire all the track coaches.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor ... ars-prison" target="_blank

I disagree. Fred Harvey is a very good man who made a bad mistake in not talking to his athlete too about rumors they had been told. But Fred feels awful about this entire situation and the U of A has taken all the necessary steps to ensure it will not happen again. No one cares more about Track & Field here then I do and I can tell you that Fred Harvey is a great man and his athletes adore him.

Wow, just because he is a great guy and no one cares about the sport, we should let Harvey off the hook. Being an alum, I am embarrassed and sick at what has happened. I don't care how well liked Harvey is, what happened was horrific and an athlete's life changed for the worst under Harvey's watch. He knew what was happening and did nothing. Many loved Joe Paterno but he should of been fired years before the scandal became national news. Good guy or not, he is in charge of the program and what happened to Baillie should of never gone to the degree it went. He needs to take full responsibility and the UofA needs to take action. The UofA better settle this out of court because it will get very ugly and the athletic department can't endure more negative news.

[Siempre Verde]

There is zero way Harvey didn’t have a clue. OR... Harvey should have had a clue. I asked for his ass to be fired when this first happened. I’m still waiting, athletic department.

[Newportcat]

Sentenced to 5 years. The UofA is going to have to settle out-of-court with her, they don't want this to get ugly. In my opinion, Heeke needs to clean house and fire all the track coaches.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor ... ars-prison" target="_blank

I disagree. Fred Harvey is a very good man who made a bad mistake in not talking to his athlete too about rumors they had been told. But Fred feels awful about this entire situation and the U of A has taken all the necessary steps to ensure it will not happen again. No one cares more about Track & Field here then I do and I can tell you that Fred Harvey is a great man and his athletes adore him.

Wow, just because he is a great guy and no one cares about the sport, we should let Harvey off the hook. Being an alum, I am embarrassed and sick at what has happened. I don't care how well liked Harvey is, what happened was horrific and an athlete's life changed for the worst under Harvey's watch. He knew what was happening and did nothing. Many loved Joe Paterno but he should of been fired years before the scandal became national news. Good guy or not, he is in charge of the program and what happened to Baillie should of never gone to the degree it went. He needs to take full responsibility and the UofA needs to take action. The UofA better settle this out of court because it will get very ugly and the athletic department can't endure more negative news.

I care about our track program very deeply as the program is very personal to myself and my family. This was nothing like Penn State. Carter is a massive piece of shit but Fred had no idea and if he did he would have fired him immediately. Gibson told no one about it even when Fred pressed her when she wanted to transfer

Gibson’s own roommate had no idea

[Newportcat]

The story is on the front page of espn right now. Horrible stuff and really makes me think less of GB. Really just makes me concerned about the entire athletic department really.

If anything, it shows that in situations like this our Athletic Department is at the hands of its lawyers. The article consensus wants Byrne to have done more to reach out to Baillie, but what if his lawyers held him back?

At the least, I can't imagine that during the times Byrne had to meet with the lawyers as to what to do about Carter, there wasn't mention of whether any response was due to the victims.

I think at institutions like Arizona (and L'Ville, Minnesota, Baylor, etc...) the CEO's (AD's, Presidents) don't want the pressure of having to make a decision when they don't have all the facts. It's akin to a head coach not wanting any responsibility in the decision-making process of when to play an injured player. Lute Olson would simply defer to the medical staff. Only if a player was cleared to physically perform would Lute play him. If not, then he wouldn't play. That way, Lute didn't have to shoulder the responsibility.

In hindsight, these stories look terrible. But when these stories are unfolding, not all sides have all the facts and information at their disposal. So they follow a protocol that will guide their decision making. The victim here clearly had multiple opportunities to blow the whistle on the psycho coach. This is certainly not "blame the victim" but the reality is that there were suspicions but not enough fact. There are always rumors and innuendo in any organization or business that, if accepted as fact, could get a lot of people wrongly accused or in trouble.

To play Devils Advocate, how much information did Byrne have other than some third party rumors and suspicions? I think a lot of people could have and should have done more to resolve and de-escalate a terrible situation. And that ultimately starts with the victim.

I agree with this 100%. U of A is trying to do more to encourage their athletes to speak up and talk and focus on their overall well being. Just this week they promoted Amy Athey within the department who focuses on the mental health of student athletes. She was hired in 2015 and in large part over this issue.

http://arizonawildcats.com/news/2018/5/ ... tions.aspx" target="_blank

I have personally been assured that they are doing everything possible to ensure situations like this do not happen again. Firing Fred Harvey is not the answer. Fred is not some monster and he would have fired the coach immediately if he had any sort of proof or evidence or what was happening. The guy was just his throws coach, easily replaceable. Unfortunately the victim never said anything until it was far too late and U of A is working to ensure future student athletes are never put in that position and feel there are many avenues for them to talk with people or be directed to people if coaches feel something is wrong. Amy is a part of that solution as it was clear to the athletic department that they needed their own Mental Health professionals on staff.

[Irish27]

Sentenced to 5 years. The UofA is going to have to settle out-of-court with her, they don't want this to get ugly. In my opinion, Heeke needs to clean house and fire all the track coaches.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor ... ars-prison" target="_blank

I disagree. Fred Harvey is a very good man who made a bad mistake in not talking to his athlete too about rumors they had been told. But Fred feels awful about this entire situation and the U of A has taken all the necessary steps to ensure it will not happen again. No one cares more about Track & Field here then I do and I can tell you that Fred Harvey is a great man and his athletes adore him.

Wow, just because he is a great guy and no one cares about the sport, we should let Harvey off the hook. Being an alum, I am embarrassed and sick at what has happened. I don't care how well liked Harvey is, what happened was horrific and an athlete's life changed for the worst under Harvey's watch. He knew what was happening and did nothing. Many loved Joe Paterno but he should of been fired years before the scandal became national news. Good guy or not, he is in charge of the program and what happened to Baillie should of never gone to the degree it went. He needs to take full responsibility and the UofA needs to take action. The UofA better settle this out of court because it will get very ugly and the athletic department can't endure more negative news.

I care about our track program very deeply as the program is very personal to myself and my family. This was nothing like Penn State. Carter is a massive piece of shit but Fred had no idea and if he did he would have fired him immediately. Gibson told no one about it even when Fred pressed her when she wanted to transfer

Gibson’s own roommate had no idea

Harvey and GB knew, Carter was asked about it and they believed his story. I have a friend who ran track for the UofA just a few years ago and he has the same sentiment as me. I really hope if you have a daughter, nothing happens to her like what happened to Baillie.

[Newportcat]

Sentenced to 5 years. The UofA is going to have to settle out-of-court with her, they don't want this to get ugly. In my opinion, Heeke needs to clean house and fire all the track coaches.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/stor ... ars-prison" target="_blank

I disagree. Fred Harvey is a very good man who made a bad mistake in not talking to his athlete too about rumors they had been told. But Fred feels awful about this entire situation and the U of A has taken all the necessary steps to ensure it will not happen again. No one cares more about Track & Field here then I do and I can tell you that Fred Harvey is a great man and his athletes adore him.

Wow, just because he is a great guy and no one cares about the sport, we should let Harvey off the hook. Being an alum, I am embarrassed and sick at what has happened. I don't care how well liked Harvey is, what happened was horrific and an athlete's life changed for the worst under Harvey's watch. He knew what was happening and did nothing. Many loved Joe Paterno but he should of been fired years before the scandal became national news. Good guy or not, he is in charge of the program and what happened to Baillie should of never gone to the degree it went. He needs to take full responsibility and the UofA needs to take action. The UofA better settle this out of court because it will get very ugly and the athletic department can't endure more negative news.

I care about our track program very deeply as the program is very personal to myself and my family. This was nothing like Penn State. Carter is a massive piece of shit but Fred had no idea and if he did he would have fired him immediately. Gibson told no one about it even when Fred pressed her when she wanted to transfer

Gibson’s own roommate had no idea

Harvey and GB knew, Carter was asked about it and they believed his story. I have a friend who ran track for the UofA just a few years ago and he has the same sentiment as me. I really hope if you have a daughter, nothing happens to her like what happened to Baillie.

They did not know. That’s why the judge throw them out of the civil law suit. Carter lied to them. Unless people I trust and have known for a very long time are lying to me.

I do have a daughter and pray this does not happen to her and will do everything in my power to encourage her to always speak up if something wrong happens to her.

[prh]

Either way on the above argument, isn't this Byrne's job to deal with? It would make far more sense for the AD to be in charge of investigating and dealing with this, compared to the head coach. (And yes, there are even better people to investigate, but I'm strictly comparing the AD and HC)