Bear Down Wildcats

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... iversities

Pac-12 schools:
4 Stanford
20 Cal
23 UCLA
25 USC
48 Wash.
88 Colo.
106 Ore.
121 Ariz.
129 ASU, Utah
138 OSU, WSU

The state of Arizona should be ashamed of itself. Hey, I bet no one has ever said that before!

Seriously have fallen over the past 10 years.

U.S. News is a meaningless ranking, but Arizona isn't particularly poorly placed on that list. It's something like the 50th state institution on this list, and that counts all of the UC campuses ranked individually and specialized institutions like the Colorado School of Mines. There's around 300 or so state institutions in the U.S. But like I said, this is meaningless.

A better gauge is the Shanghai list - the Academic Ranking of World Universities, where Arizona is ranked at the #86 in the world. There you'll see all those U.S. public institutions ranked well below Arizona.

Why is the Shanghai list better?

Puerco wrote:Why is the Shanghai list better?

Because we're ranked higher. Same with the (London) Times Higher Education List, and the Center for World Rankings.

None of the lists are particularly meaningful, but at least these three are recognized by the Chronicle of Education, which in their own turn ranks individual academic units within larger institutions. That's really the only meaningful kind of ranking. Other than being a Carnegie R1, which is one of the few things anybody needs to know, other than being one of only 34 public institutions in the Association of American Universities.

It's interesting that U.S. News & WR is the only list ranking U. of Oklahoma higher than Arizona. A few years back, Oklahoma was considered for expanding the PAC, but the PAC understood that its academics weren't up to snuff.

Just seeing something like Auburn ranked higher than Arizona on U.S. News & WR raises my eyebrows. If I taught at Auburn, I'd be teaching six courses per year at a comparable salary to Arizona (actually lower salary at Auburn, but adjusts for cost of living), instead of four per year at Arizona. Less time for research allocation = lower quality teaching. Whereas U.S. News & WR only sees the instructor to student ratio per individual course as averaged across the entire campus, where the difference is still negligible, really.

I remember back when I started at the ua 10 years ago. It was in the low 80s then and only behind Stanford, cal, ucla, usc and was barely behind Washington.

ASUHATER! wrote:I remember back when I started at the ua 10 years ago. It was in the low 80s then and only behind Stanford, cal, ucla, usc and was barely behind Washington.

Obviously the Arizona legislature hating education of any form will do that when they cut so much funding from schools, both higher ed and K-12.

One of my Tucson nieces is thinking in taking getting a degree in Zoology/Wild Animals and no AZ school offers one. She found one at a JC in Ventura county out here in CA, and even paying out of state tuition she would still be paying less than in state tuition at the UA.

If I wasn't such a raging Wildcat fan and alum, I'd be pushing my kids to Colorado or UCLA.

The in-state schools will, at best, give you a decent future in this state. As far as global jobs go, there are a few schools at UA that are globally competitive, but that number is gradually shrinking.

Even the NAU hotel program isn't anything like what it used to be, and you might as well go to college at Grand Canyon anymore if your choice is between that and ASU.

But, to echo the sentiment in this thread, that's what happens when the legislature tells public education in this state to go f*ck itself every year.

I grew up with the high-character football guys under Larry Smith, and I think these kind of guys wouldn't go to Arizona in this day and age--they are a different breed now who stay in their home state for college.

Tougher to tell those guys like Jay Dobyns, Tom Tunnicliffe et. al. to come to Tucson when they have schollie offers from the California schools unless they're dedicated to it. Frankly, times have changed so much with high school recruiting and college choice that Steve Kerr would probably have stayed home at Pepperdine or one of the UC schools today.

I hear you CG97.

I am a raging Wildcat fan and alum and no way I'm pushing my daughter to UofA.

(granted a lot can change in 18 years, but as it stands now...)

I don't have kids, but I absolutely push my niece and nephew and friends' kids to U of A.

CalStateTempe wrote:I hear you CG97.

I am a raging Wildcat fan and alum and no way I'm pushing my daughter to UofA.

(granted a lot can change in 18 years, but as it stands now...)

I guess like most things in life, it depends.

It depends on what they want to do, their aptitude, what they are looking for in a college experience, where we are living (i.e. strong state schools in California, North Carolina, Texas) etc.

My comment is less directed at UofA and more towards the backwards state legislature that the board of regents have to deal with.

CalStateTempe wrote:My comment is less directed at UofA and more towards the backwards state legislature that the board of regents have to deal with.

Mine too.

If my son and/or daughter is all about Tucson and it has a good school for what he wants to study, by all means, go to U of A.

But I don't believe in limiting anyone's options, and the Arizona legislature has been doing that to kids with impunity for generations. The last fate for anybody's children should be a dead-end job due to politics.

Isn't this happening in most states? Hardly any funding for public institutions comes from the states anymore.

Longhorned wrote:Isn't this happening in most states? Hardly any funding for public institutions comes from the states anymore.

I work for the CSU, and funding has gone from subsidizing 67% of tuition costs down to 40%. Not sure if the UC funding is similar. Student fees have also gone way up, but those are voted on by students.

Longhorned wrote:

Puerco wrote:Why is the Shanghai list better?

Because we're ranked higher. Same with the (London) Times Higher Education List, and the Center for World Rankings.

None of the lists are particularly meaningful, but at least these three are recognized by the Chronicle of Education, which in their own turn ranks individual academic units within larger institutions. That's really the only meaningful kind of ranking. Other than being a Carnegie R1, which is one of the few things anybody needs to know, other than being one of only 34 public institutions in the Association of American Universities.

It's interesting that U.S. News & WR is the only list ranking U. of Oklahoma higher than Arizona. A few years back, Oklahoma was considered for expanding the PAC, but the PAC understood that its academics weren't up to snuff.

Just seeing something like Auburn ranked higher than Arizona on U.S. News & WR raises my eyebrows. If I taught at Auburn, I'd be teaching six courses per year at a comparable salary to Arizona (actually lower salary at Auburn, but adjusts for cost of living), instead of four per year at Arizona. Less time for research allocation = lower quality teaching. Whereas U.S. News & WR only sees the instructor to student ratio per individual course as averaged across the entire campus, where the difference is still negligible, really.

Thanks, LH.

Puerco wrote:Why is the Shanghai list better?

No idea how the Shanghai list ranks the schools, but USNWR uses things like Counselor reputation and endowment worth to calculate into their formula. And since they rely exclusively on information submitted from private schools, their accuracy isn't exactly stellar. Most private schools don't include their legacy kids into those acceptance rates. Not that I think they should, but the public schools information is attainable

MrBug708 wrote:

Puerco wrote:Why is the Shanghai list better?

No idea how the Shanghai list ranks the schools, but USNWR uses things like Counselor reputation and endowment worth to calculate into their formula. And since they rely exclusively on information submitted from private schools, their accuracy isn't exactly stellar. Most private schools don't include their legacy kids into those acceptance rates. Not that I think they should, but the public schools information is attainable

That is a problem. Not to defend the private institutions, but they're not the only ones admitting applicants who fall below the recognized standard. The University of Illinois was shown to be admitting all kinds of questionably qualified applicants under the table, even if it impacted (ever so slightly) the publicly available acceptance rates. Of course, that same institution is now in trouble again for impinging on academic freedom. Can't even keep a chancellor in office long enough to make a positive impact without that person being forced to resign. I'm not sure how all this affects the rankings, but Illinois has held steady over the past decade in spite of all this.

Longhorned wrote:Isn't this happening in most states? Hardly any funding for public institutions comes from the states anymore.

Yes. Split used to be 70-30 in Washington, with the state picking up the 70. Now it's 30-70. Happening everywhere.

Son wants UW. Can't blame him. But not easy to get into. He's going in-state, unless he wants to take on big loans. He doesn't. UW is No. 1 in drawing federal research dollars. Very attractive. He'll be a Husky or a Coug, unless Seattle U. comes through with a big financial aid offer.

Been interesting visiting campuses. Everything is first rate, especially compared to my college days, which is, of course, costly. That's to draw more students whose families can pay full freight. Not sure how that cycle gets broken.

UW got into some hot water with Legislature for taking so many foreign students and limiting transfers from in-state community colleges. They were taking the foreign students, because they would pay the full cost.

gumby wrote:
Been interesting visiting campuses. Everything is first rate, especially compared to my college days, which is, of course, costly. That's to draw more students whose families can pay full freight. Not sure how that cycle gets broken.

It's unbelievable. The luxury. If I could throw away everything, lose my home, and return to the age of 17 and start over in the dorms, I'd feel like I went from the poor house to the fat house. The only worry I'd have is how do you leave that. It's like getting bumped up to first class on too many flights in row, and all of the sudden the realities of coach class feel beneath you. How do you leave the Garden and go get a freaking job after that?

Yeah, when I saw chicken tikka masala and massaman curry in the cafeteria, I knew I was no longer at Louie's Lower Level.

Filtered water fountains everywhere. Lobbies look like 5-star hotels. Laundry rooms in dorms. Then there's the rec centers. Not exactly Bear Down Gym.

Student union at UW is brand new. Sparkles. Plus, a bowling alley!

More important rankings

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UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA
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You gotta get: The White Widow
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Mm kinda want a la canna from cheba hut about now.

ASUHATER! wrote:Mm kinda want a la canna from cheba hut about now.

I'm craving a Panama Red Blunt.

White widow ftw. Drool.

scumdevils86 wrote:White widow ftw. Drool.

White Widow da bomb!

http://uanews.org/story/ua-moves-up-in- ... s-to-no-86

University Relations - Communications | October 1, 2014

Teaching, research and citations heavily weighted in ranking of No. 86, a jump of nearly 20 places.

The University of Arizona is ranked No. 86 in the annual Times Higher Education World University Rankings for 2014-15, representing a jump of nearly 20 places from the previous year. The UA was ranked No. 103 among 400 universities in 2013-14.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/w ... ld-ranking

UofA #86

ASU #182

.

Well, as a high school junior-to-be, it's time for my daughter to start looking hard at what school to attend. We are CA residents so CA-schools are favorites. Over the years I've pushed UA and she is very interested, but the past few years severe funding cuts there have me concerned about education quality there.

I was wondering if I could get some input from people here.

For those of you attending now or recently attending (or w/kids attending), Do you have a general overall feel for whether quality is suffering at UA? I know it's pretty hard for you to quantify this, but I'm thinking along the lines of class size and availability for general classes (my daughter is not prepared to select a major at this point in time), or anything else you think applies towards measuring quality.

For example, are they just cramming more kids into each class? Class size matters a lot to me. I recall the first time I took a general class in college (Psych 101) with hundreds of (possibly a thousand) kids in an arena-like setting. I found that class absolutely useless; I would have been better off just reading the textbook (or nowadays taking it on-line).

Another way maybe you could quantify this; how hard is it to get in the classes you need to take? Missing out on a few classes (because they are fully booked) can turn a 4-year degree into an unintended 5-year degree. The way she applies herself, I see my daughter going the 5-year route only if forced to by not getting into the classes she desires w/in a 4-year window.

Haven't been in classes for 6+ years but as far as I know it's gone down. Enrollment is up while the number of majors and programs have been cut. My class sizes 7-11 years ago varied wildly. I took gen eds in huge auditoriums with 400 kids and i also had classes with maybe a dozen students. Just depends on the major and class.

I think it's ridiculous to push your alma mater on your kids. If you can afford Colo. or UCLA, by all means. If you can't, then UA isn't a bad choice. I know a kid here who is going to UA. Wish her luck, but that's a lot money vs. a better in-state school.

Happy to live in a state that has many good in-state choices.

gumby wrote:I think it's ridiculous to push your alma mater on your kids. If you can afford Colo. or UCLA, by all means. If you can't, then UA isn't a bad choice. I know a kid here who is going to UA. Wish her luck, but that's a lot money vs. a better in-state school.

Happy to live in a state that has many good in-state choices.

You know, I misspoke on that. I agree w/you on that and have never pushed, just hinted about what a great place it was and what a great time I had there; plus got a damn good education in a field where I've never had problems finding good-paying and enjoyable jobs at varied locations around the country...

I keep all the good times to myself since I'm paying.

UAEebs86 wrote:The University of Arizona is ranked No. 86 in the annual Times Higher Education World University Rankings for 2014-15

Initially read that as High Times Education World University Rankings for 2014-15.

Whoo hoo. We're number 86!

I think I just saw an article about layoffs due to budget cuts? WTF, aren't we in a recovery? Laws of economics say thats when you increase school funding, right? Of course, I never took economics at the UA; so maybe they do things differently there...


We checked out UC Santa Cruz (the Slugs!) and CSU Monterey Bay earlier this week. Next week Cal Poly. She's also been to UC Merced, Berkley, UOP and I forget where else. Still on the list are CSU Sonoma, probably UC Irvine (go Anteaters!), UA and believe it or not, maybe UO.

So far she likes CSUMB because it's small (they bragged about their small class sizes), near the beach, and she liked that each dorm "unit" (whether a solo, dbl, triple, or quad) gets their own bathroom. While UOP might be similarly small, its a pretty crappy place-Stockton really is the armpit of the Central Valley.

We haven't yet had a talk about how the school you go to can sometimes factor in how quickly you get hired after you get the degree.

UAtrue wrote: I think I just saw an article about layoffs due to budget cuts? WTF, aren't we in a recovery? Laws of economics say thats when you increase school funding, right? Of course, I never took economics at the UA; so maybe they do things differently there...

Nothing to do with UA and everything to do with the idiots who run the state...aka the republicans.

UAtrue wrote:Whoo hoo. We're number 86!

I think I just saw an article about layoffs due to budget cuts? WTF, aren't we in a recovery? Laws of economics say thats when you increase school funding, right? Of course, I never took economics at the UA; so maybe they do things differently there...


We checked out UC Santa Cruz (the Slugs!) and CSU Monterey Bay earlier this week. Next week Cal Poly. She's also been to UC Merced, Berkley, UOP and I forget where else. Still on the list are CSU Sonoma, probably UC Irvine (go Anteaters!), UA and believe it or not, maybe UO.

So far she likes CSUMB because it's small (they bragged about their small class sizes), near the beach, and she liked that each dorm "unit" (whether a solo, dbl, triple, or quad) gets their own bathroom. While UOP might be similarly small, its a pretty crappy place-Stockton really is the armpit of the Central Valley.

We haven't yet had a talk about how the school you go to can sometimes factor in how quickly you get hired after you get the degree.

Found this process pretty interesting. UW has a bunch of new dorms, and my son landed in the newest. Rooms all have their own bathrooms/showers. Laundry rooms are in the buliding. Dryers text you when they're done. Grocery store in the dorm room near his. Bus stops right outside.

gumby wrote: Found this process pretty interesting. UW has a bunch of new dorms, and my son landed in the newest. Rooms all have their own bathrooms/showers. Laundry rooms are in the buliding. Dryers text you when they're done. Grocery store in the dorm room near his. Bus stops right outside.

Almost tempts me to go back to school . I've been seeing periodic news stories about all the things schools have been adding to the dorms to make them more desirable.

I never lived on campus at either of my schools. Tried the roomate route for one year (at a house near the campus); four guys, all very different from one another. I didnt find it very pleasant.

But, each school we've been to emphasized their 'roomate matching' programs which should make it much more likely the roomates will be compatible.

I loved my time in a dorm and it had no bells and whistles and was the oldest on campus (Yuma hall...was 68 years old when I moved in)

It's almost like match.com with how kids can find roommates. They can go onto message boards and post their likes/dislikes. Then submit application requesting a particular person. My son ended up with a guy from his own high school.

Of course, messaging each other is no match for smelling each others' socks, and seeing who is willing to clean a bathroom.

Another thing I found interesting is coed floors. Might have two girls living next door.

Coed wings or floors? Nowadays at Arizona all dorms I have coed floors it's just that guys all live on one wing or side and girls on the other.

I was in a co-ed wing back in '95.

gumby wrote:It's almost like match.com with how kids can find roommates. They can go onto message boards and post their likes/dislikes. Then submit application requesting a particular person. My son ended up with a guy from his own high school.

Of course, messaging each other is no match for smelling each others' socks, and seeing who is willing to clean a bathroom.

Another thing I found interesting is coed floors. Might have two girls living next door.

At Arizona/Sonora, of course, we had a large bathroom down the hall on every floor. But if your shared room has its own bathroom/shower, you're responsible of cleaning it? I'd say that isn't worth it. I'd much prefer the professionally cleaned big bathroom.

In Italy for study abroad, our dorm also had three bathrooms per floor and a kitchen. Every couple of months when it was your "turno di pulizia" you had to personally clean all the bathrooms and the kitchen. It took all day and it was kind of awful.

ASUHATER! wrote:Coed wings or floors? Nowadays at Arizona all dorms I have coed floors it's just that guys all live on one wing or side and girls on the other.

From UW: "The majority of residence hall floors have students of both sexes living on them, though single-sex floors are available upon request."

LH, I agree. I would rather use a group bathroom that someone else cleans, but many kids today reject this. They're not used to group showers. They don't shower at their middle and/or high schools either after P.E. (Body Axe!) My kids were surprised to hear this was normal back in the day (along with towel snapping).

The newer dorms on West Campus have individual bathrooms. The older ones on North Campus don't (and they are cheaper).

But my son, who has never cleaned a bathroom in his life, wanted his own. The RAs come by once a month to inspect. They can be fined for super-icky ones.

I'd rather have the extra space the bathroom takes up, and the freedom to never clean one.

Great, so you can get fined for when your roommate absolutely refuses his turn to clean the bathroom.

Yea it's weird that kids aren't required to shower in pe anymore. It was absolutely required to pass the class when I was in school a short 11-17 years ago.

Longhorned wrote:Great, so you can get fined for when your roommate absolutely refuses his turn to clean the bathroom.

Yes, but he's on the sixth floor, so tossing him out is a serious threat.