Sean Miller

WildcatStunner · Post by **WildcatStunner** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:19 pm

This game put a big crack in my overall faith in Miller. At this point I feel he is too stubborn to ever adapt. The team is all flash, no substance. There is no excuse for offensive woes when we have this amount of talent. But year in and year out we always have huge dry spells on offense.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:19 pm

AZCatGirl wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
AZCatGirl wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:I know everyone's gonna give Miller a pass
Have you read the game thread?
in game threads are a different beast
People have some pretty legit criticisms. I don't think many will be giving him a pass this time.

I don't think Miller will be giving himself a pass this time.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:22 pm

He never excused his losses to Buffalo or Wichita either.

Doesn't mean he learned what he needed to from them.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:25 pm

Longhorned wrote:
AZCatGirl wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
AZCatGirl wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:I know everyone's gonna give Miller a pass
Have you read the game thread?
in game threads are a different beast
People have some pretty legit criticisms. I don't think many will be giving him a pass this time.
I don't think Miller will be giving himself a pass this time.

Respectfully disagree, we’ve been waiting for Miller to become more flexible with his system and to learn as a coach for 10 years now. He is who he is. He ain’t changing.

TatetheGreat · Post by **TatetheGreat** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:27 pm

I'm not here to gloat because this sucks, but yeah, I told you so. He never fucking learns. You'd think he'd pick up something from other coaches but nope. DWWD always. Hope we reach our ceiling with this team (S16).

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:28 pm

I’ve always felt that Miller waits too long to press at end of games.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:33 pm

Chicat wrote:Gonzaga came out of halftime with a different offensive game plan that moved the ball all the way around the perimeter to set up corner threes or passes into the post.

Arizona came out after halftime with the exact same game plan that stalled in the first half when Mark Few made some defensive adjustments.

Looked like we got out-coached.

yeah

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:34 pm

AZCatGirl wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:
AZCatGirl wrote:
PieceOfMeat wrote:I know everyone's gonna give Miller a pass
Have you read the game thread?
in game threads are a different beast
People have some pretty legit criticisms. I don't think many will be giving him a pass this time.

when i say "everyone" i mean it in a generalized sense. there have always been those with criticisms, and they've mostly been brushed aside by the majority. I'd be surprised if this game or this season is any different in that respect

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:34 pm

Postmaster wrote:I’ve always felt that Miller waits too long to press at end of games.

Especially at home. It worked in the comeback against Colorado with the Sabatino Chen shot. Worked again today, but it was too late coming.

I'm actually open to him letting Nico play through it instead of tightening the leash. Hopefully it will pay off, but I can't get my hopes up because that was dreadful.

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:38 pm

Game went pretty much like I thought it would. Miller getting out coached on his home court by the true king of the west....Oregon being #2. Thought the final score would be closer but my prediction was pretty much dead on. The better team won plain and simple. Congrats to Gonzaga and good luck to them going forward.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:39 pm

I wish DD would have worked out.

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:50 pm

TatetheGreat wrote:I'm not here to gloat because this sucks, but yeah, I told you so. He never fucking learns. You'd think he'd pick up something from other coaches but nope. DWWD always. Hope we reach our ceiling with this team (S16).

Well first we have to get invited to the NCAA tournament. I think we will with between 8 and 10 losses which will result in a very unfavorable seeding. And we all know how that will end. For now I'm dreading what Oregon will do to us in conference play.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:57 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:I'm not here to gloat because this sucks, but yeah, I told you so. He never fucking learns. You'd think he'd pick up something from other coaches but nope. DWWD always. Hope we reach our ceiling with this team (S16).

Well first we have to get invited to the NCAA tournament. I think we will with between 8 and 10 losses which will result in a very unfavorable seeding. And we all know how that will end. For now I'm dreading what Oregon will do to us in conference play.

I mean we're not a top 5 team but you're assuming we lose like 7-8 conference games?

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:02 pm

Who do we skip this year in conference play?

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:04 pm

ASUHATER! wrote:
Captain Obvious wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:I'm not here to gloat because this sucks, but yeah, I told you so. He never fucking learns. You'd think he'd pick up something from other coaches but nope. DWWD always. Hope we reach our ceiling with this team (S16).

Well first we have to get invited to the NCAA tournament. I think we will with between 8 and 10 losses which will result in a very unfavorable seeding. And we all know how that will end. For now I'm dreading what Oregon will do to us in conference play.
I mean we're not a top 5 team but you're assuming we lose like 7-8 conference games?

Well we've dropped 2 and I think we lose at least 6 in conference play.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:09 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
ASUHATER! wrote:
Captain Obvious wrote:
TatetheGreat wrote:I'm not here to gloat because this sucks, but yeah, I told you so. He never fucking learns. You'd think he'd pick up something from other coaches but nope. DWWD always. Hope we reach our ceiling with this team (S16).

Well first we have to get invited to the NCAA tournament. I think we will with between 8 and 10 losses which will result in a very unfavorable seeding. And we all know how that will end. For now I'm dreading what Oregon will do to us in conference play.
I mean we're not a top 5 team but you're assuming we lose like 7-8 conference games?
Well we've dropped 2 and I think we lose at least 6 in conference play.

I’ll take the under on that number

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:10 pm

Postmaster wrote:Who do we skip this year in conference play?

Don’t visit CU & Utah and don’t host Stanford & Cal

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:38 pm

I’d like to see Miller utilize our athleticism on defense and move away from the pack line on occasion. Too much athleticism to play a defense designed for non athletic players.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:47 pm

So many open looks were missed. So many rebounds were missed. Those are not coaching issues. Miller is not the issue

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:24 am

PHXCATS wrote:So many open looks were missed. So many rebounds were missed. Those are not coaching issues. Miller is not the issue

You’re in denial, PHX. Make a list of the big games Miller has won, and then make another of the ones he’s lost. The latter has grown steadily longer. And Miller gets NBA talent year after year. Better coaches have done far more with less.

I don’t think Miller is a bad coach. I just don’t think he’s going to deliver the outcomes we’ve been very patient for. I’ll always respect the guy, but I’m ready for a change.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:22 am

You'd certainly hope that this team is a much more complete team in February/March than they are today. If they're not then we most certainly have to discuss the Arizona/Sean Miller relationship and how much longer this needs to continue.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:47 am

zonagrad wrote:I’d like to see Miller utilize our athleticism on defense and move away from the pack line on occasion. Too much athleticism to play a defense designed for non athletic players.

And I’d like to drive a Ferrari and we both know both of these things aren’t happening.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:39 am

ChooChooCat wrote:You'd certainly hope that this team is a much more complete team in February/March than they are today. If they're not then we most certainly have to discuss the Arizona/Sean Miller relationship and how much longer this needs to continue.

Fully agree. We can say Few out-coached Miller in second half adjustments. But in a big game in mid-December, second half adjustments for a team that depends 80% on three starting freshmen isn’t like putting in an order with Grub Hub. Potential for adjustments and just about everything else hinges on full season conference season development.

A mid-December loss by four points to one of the top teams in the country on a historically awful night from your freshman starting a point guard offers limited conclusions with respect to what we knew about Miller as a coach two seasons ago.

AZCatGirl · Post by **AZCatGirl** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:48 am

Does anyone trust Heeke to hire a new basketball coach? Because I sure don't. I'd rather stick with Miller until we get a new AD.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:54 am

AZCatGirl wrote:Does anyone trust Heeke to hire a new basketball coach? Because I sure don't. I'd rather stick with Miller until we get a new AD.

He wouldn't be making the hire, the boosters would be. Ultimately if Arizona were to move on from Miller it would also be the boosters' call.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:11 am

Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:You'd certainly hope that this team is a much more complete team in February/March than they are today. If they're not then we most certainly have to discuss the Arizona/Sean Miller relationship and how much longer this needs to continue.
Fully agree. We can say Few out-coached Miller in second half adjustments. But in a big game in mid-December, second half adjustments for a team that depends 80% on three starting freshmen isn’t like putting in an order with Grub Hub. Potential for adjustments and just about everything else hinges on full season conference season development.

A mid-December loss by four points to one of the top teams in the country on a historically awful night from your freshman starting a point guard offers limited conclusions with respect to what we knew about Miller as a coach two seasons ago.

This 1000%

Gotta laugh at so many people blaming Miller for the loss. We just had our starting 5* PG shoot 3 for 20 (15%) and 1 for 10 on 3 point shots, including missing at least one layup, and lost to a top 10 (probably top 5 next week) team by 4 points. This after a 3-15 performance against Baylor. We all knew that this team would only go as far as Nico could take them. It seems like he is choking against the really tough competition. He is just a freshman, after all. I would think (hope) that he will not let the pressure get to him as much as the year wears on and this team will be much better in March than it is right now.

I do like the fact that we matched Gonzaga in rebounding. Just another game of shit shooting by too many players. Not on Miller.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:50 am

We also had only 6 turnovers to their 10. Not too shabby.

Lost amid the panic is that statistically we did pretty well yesterday, Nico’s shooting notwithstanding.

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:16 pm

Absolutely. I am disappointed that we lost, but encouraged by the rebounding and low turnovers. Gonzaga may end up being one of the top 4 teams in the country.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:18 pm

This year's Gonzaga team quite frankly isn't shit. Most of our teams would've beat them at home easily.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:19 pm

Serious question (which I think will help frame the Miller issue): who are his true peers? By “true” peers I mean coaches who are at about the same point in their careers and have coached at programs of similar stature. Age is a factor too, I suppose, but the reality is that some guys have success when they’re quite young (Stevens) while others not till later.

I don’t consider any of these guys Miller’s peers: Few, Self, Calipari, Roy, Izzo, Pitino, or K.

Here are guys I consider Miller’s peers: Altman, Beilein, Beard, Romar, Alford, Painter, Kruger, Buzz Williams, et al.

My question, then, would be: how is he doing among his peers? I can’t really compare Miller to Mark Few because Few has earned contract after contract at his current program and has spent the last two decades making Gonzaga the top program in the west, just like Lute once did. Miller inherited an elite program but hasn’t kept it at that level, except in recruiting. Few is a Tier One coach at a Tier One program. Miller is a Tier Two coach at a Tier One program (at least historically). We could say the same about Cronin at UCLA, perhaps.

Anyway, anyone who’s ready to see Miller leave has to seriously consider the chance that we could hire a coach inferior to Miller. Several good programs have made crappy hires in the last decade, and it can set a program back years.

I still think this current team has a high ceiling and could do big things, in spite of Miller’s perceived shortcomings. So for now, I’m all in on the 2019-20 Cats, but I’m also warming to the idea of a coaching change.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:46 pm

BBQ wildcat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:You'd certainly hope that this team is a much more complete team in February/March than they are today. If they're not then we most certainly have to discuss the Arizona/Sean Miller relationship and how much longer this needs to continue.
Fully agree. We can say Few out-coached Miller in second half adjustments. But in a big game in mid-December, second half adjustments for a team that depends 80% on three starting freshmen isn’t like putting in an order with Grub Hub. Potential for adjustments and just about everything else hinges on full season conference season development.

A mid-December loss by four points to one of the top teams in the country on a historically awful night from your freshman starting a point guard offers limited conclusions with respect to what we knew about Miller as a coach two seasons ago.
This 1000%

Gotta laugh at so many people blaming Miller for the loss. We just had our starting 5* PG shoot 3 for 20 (15%) and 1 for 10 on 3 point shots, including missing at least one layup, and lost to a top 10 (probably top 5 next week) team by 4 points. This after a 3-15 performance against Baylor. We all knew that this team would only go as far as Nico could take them. It seems like he is choking against the really tough competition. He is just a freshman, after all. I would think (hope) that he will not let the pressure get to him as much as the year wears on and this team will be much better in March than it is right now.

I do like the fact that we matched Gonzaga in rebounding. Just another game of shit shooting by too many players. Not on Miller.

Are we going to act like Miller also doesn’t choke against really tough competition?

Ok...

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:04 pm

Chicat wrote:
BBQ wildcat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:You'd certainly hope that this team is a much more complete team in February/March than they are today. If they're not then we most certainly have to discuss the Arizona/Sean Miller relationship and how much longer this needs to continue.
Fully agree. We can say Few out-coached Miller in second half adjustments. But in a big game in mid-December, second half adjustments for a team that depends 80% on three starting freshmen isn’t like putting in an order with Grub Hub. Potential for adjustments and just about everything else hinges on full season conference season development.

A mid-December loss by four points to one of the top teams in the country on a historically awful night from your freshman starting a point guard offers limited conclusions with respect to what we knew about Miller as a coach two seasons ago.
This 1000%

Gotta laugh at so many people blaming Miller for the loss. We just had our starting 5* PG shoot 3 for 20 (15%) and 1 for 10 on 3 point shots, including missing at least one layup, and lost to a top 10 (probably top 5 next week) team by 4 points. This after a 3-15 performance against Baylor. We all knew that this team would only go as far as Nico could take them. It seems like he is choking against the really tough competition. He is just a freshman, after all. I would think (hope) that he will not let the pressure get to him as much as the year wears on and this team will be much better in March than it is right now.

I do like the fact that we matched Gonzaga in rebounding. Just another game of shit shooting by too many players. Not on Miller.
Are we going to act like Miller also doesn’t choke against really tough competition?

Ok...

I guess it feels that way now more than ever, but he probably wins half as much vs "really tough competition" as he does lose.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:11 pm

Chicat wrote:
BBQ wildcat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:You'd certainly hope that this team is a much more complete team in February/March than they are today. If they're not then we most certainly have to discuss the Arizona/Sean Miller relationship and how much longer this needs to continue.
Fully agree. We can say Few out-coached Miller in second half adjustments. But in a big game in mid-December, second half adjustments for a team that depends 80% on three starting freshmen isn’t like putting in an order with Grub Hub. Potential for adjustments and just about everything else hinges on full season conference season development.

A mid-December loss by four points to one of the top teams in the country on a historically awful night from your freshman starting a point guard offers limited conclusions with respect to what we knew about Miller as a coach two seasons ago.
This 1000%

Gotta laugh at so many people blaming Miller for the loss. We just had our starting 5* PG shoot 3 for 20 (15%) and 1 for 10 on 3 point shots, including missing at least one layup, and lost to a top 10 (probably top 5 next week) team by 4 points. This after a 3-15 performance against Baylor. We all knew that this team would only go as far as Nico could take them. It seems like he is choking against the really tough competition. He is just a freshman, after all. I would think (hope) that he will not let the pressure get to him as much as the year wears on and this team will be much better in March than it is right now.

I do like the fact that we matched Gonzaga in rebounding. Just another game of shit shooting by too many players. Not on Miller.
Are we going to act like Miller also doesn’t choke against really tough competition?

Ok...

A few exceptions aside (like at UCLA 2018 and some conference championship games), that is apparent (real underdog victories like Duke 2011 shouldn't count), and no different from two years ago in that respect. But in mid-December with the dependence on three starting freshmen, and with all the points Nico left on the floor last night, I'm not sure we got further confirmation of that pattern.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:12 pm

Ten years is a long time

O/10 final four

Fair or not, the clock is ticking

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:36 pm

It’s not just Mannion who had a bad shooting night. Green was ice cold. And Dylan Smith was his typical self against a strong opponent. By the time those three made a few shots, the lead was insurmountable. Make 1 or 2 shots in the first half or early second half and it’s a completely different game and so is the narrative.

Again, I’d prefer some significant defensive tactics to take advantage of our superior athleticism — especially with an opponent like Gonzaga. Pressing isn’t always the answer. And pack line isn’t either. Sometimes if you’re struggling offensively, changing your defense can help cure your offense.

AzWdCatFan · Post by **AzWdCatFan** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:12 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:This year's Gonzaga team quite frankly isn't shit. Most of our teams would've beat them at home easily.

This! I can't even begin to tell you how much I agree with this comment! And I live just outside of Spokane. The lov,e and credit, this team is getting is not only unwarranted, it's down right sickening.

I know it makes us feel better as fans to believe that our loss is equal parts poor shooting, and facing a juggernaut, but that is wishful thinking on our part.

We have issues, some fixable, some not. But despite the comeback, this was in no ways a good loss!

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:48 pm

Longhorned wrote:
Chicat wrote:
BBQ wildcat wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:You'd certainly hope that this team is a much more complete team in February/March than they are today. If they're not then we most certainly have to discuss the Arizona/Sean Miller relationship and how much longer this needs to continue.
Fully agree. We can say Few out-coached Miller in second half adjustments. But in a big game in mid-December, second half adjustments for a team that depends 80% on three starting freshmen isn’t like putting in an order with Grub Hub. Potential for adjustments and just about everything else hinges on full season conference season development.

A mid-December loss by four points to one of the top teams in the country on a historically awful night from your freshman starting a point guard offers limited conclusions with respect to what we knew about Miller as a coach two seasons ago.
This 1000%

Gotta laugh at so many people blaming Miller for the loss. We just had our starting 5* PG shoot 3 for 20 (15%) and 1 for 10 on 3 point shots, including missing at least one layup, and lost to a top 10 (probably top 5 next week) team by 4 points. This after a 3-15 performance against Baylor. We all knew that this team would only go as far as Nico could take them. It seems like he is choking against the really tough competition. He is just a freshman, after all. I would think (hope) that he will not let the pressure get to him as much as the year wears on and this team will be much better in March than it is right now.

I do like the fact that we matched Gonzaga in rebounding. Just another game of shit shooting by too many players. Not on Miller.
Are we going to act like Miller also doesn’t choke against really tough competition?

Ok...

A few exceptions aside (like at UCLA 2018 and some conference championship games), that is apparent (real underdog victories like Duke 2011 shouldn't count), and no different from two years ago in that respect. But in mid-December with the dependence on three starting freshmen, and with all the points Nico left on the floor last night, I'm not sure we got further confirmation of that pattern.

A “few exceptions aside “ changes the entire argument. In ‘17, Miller outcoached Altman’s final four Ducks in the conference title game. Then won the conference tourney the year after. Miller “outcoached” Few in ‘15 with a win in Spokane.

Miller beat Duke in MSG, also beat Izzo in Hawaii.

Coming up short against Gonzaga I believe has more to do with our youth and inexperience. With three freshman, you tend to get inconsistent performances.

It’s premature to judge this team so early. I’d love to see Arizona face Gonzaga again in March.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 3:32 pm

AzWdCatFan wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:This year's Gonzaga team quite frankly isn't shit. Most of our teams would've beat them at home easily.
This! I can't even begin to tell you how much I agree with this comment! And I live just outside of Spokane. The lov,e and credit, this team is getting is not only unwarranted, it's down right sickening.

I know it makes us feel better as fans to believe that our loss is equal parts poor shooting, and facing a juggernaut, but that is wishful thinking on our part.

We have issues, some fixable, some not. But despite the comeback, this was in no ways a good loss!

IMNSHO, had Nico merely had an “off-shooting” first half (instead of a disastrous-shooting first half), Arizona would have led by 10 points at halftime, and Gonzaga would have been more cautious defending him early in the second half....

Miller had a good game plan, and the players, overall hustled well, especially on the boards. Execution was good also - I think we had one turnover in the first half.

But shooting, especially perimeter and mid-range (mostly good looks) absolutely sucked! You can’t put that on the coach....

TheCat · Post by **TheCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:16 pm

Typical Arizona fans after a loss. Some people that I'm surprised at.

Fact: Arizona has had 7 -30 win season all time. 4 of these are under Miller
Fact : Miller has won 5 Pac 12 championships (4 outright)
Fact : Miller won 250 games at Arizona in 324 tries the 5th fastest EVER in Div 1.
Fact : Miller had 3 undefeated home seasons
Fact: Won 25 games in 5 straight seasons and at the time the only other teams were Duke and Kansas to accomplish this.
Fact : Az had the #1 (2013) rated team in the country for only the 6th time
Fact : Owns the second longest win streak in McKale history
Fact : Numerous top 10 recruiting classes including one ranked number 1
Fact : Chosen to be the head coach of USA basketball (u-19) where he won the gold medal (only slouches need apply)
Fact : Is currently taking a class what has only one starter from the previous year to the top 20 including 3 freshman starters.

You really should get some perspective. Some of you are the same fans that thought Lute was an avg. tourney coach. He is in the MF Hall of Fame. He won a Natl championship at F'n Ariz. Arizona is LUCKY to have Miller he has done more then what most people (besides UCLA fans) would hope. If any of you had near this level of accomplishments at your job you would be CEO. It is time for him to move on so we can get Mick or someone of his caliber here. Idiots.

TheCat · Post by **TheCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:24 pm

AzWdCatFan wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:This year's Gonzaga team quite frankly isn't shit. Most of our teams would've beat them at home easily.
This! I can't even begin to tell you how much I agree with this comment! And I live just outside of Spokane. The lov,e and credit, this team is getting is not only unwarranted, it's down right sickening.

I know it makes us feel better as fans to believe that our loss is equal parts poor shooting, and facing a juggernaut, but that is wishful thinking on our part.

We have issues, some fixable, some not. But despite the comeback, this was in no ways a good loss!

The Zags probably have the best record against the best set of teams in the country. They lost to a hot shooting Michigan team. They beat Oregon. They may be overrated but not near Mich ST or some of the other teams that were/are above them.

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:45 pm

TheCat wrote:Typical Arizona fans after a loss. Some people that I'm surprised at.

Fact: Arizona has had 7 -30 win season all time. 4 of these are under Miller
Fact : Miller has won 5 Pac 12 championships (4 outright)
Fact : Miller won 250 games at Arizona in 324 tries the 5th fastest EVER in Div 1.
Fact : Miller had 3 undefeated home seasons
Fact: Won 25 games in 5 straight seasons and at the time the only other teams were Duke and Kansas to accomplish this.
Fact : Az had the #1 (2013) rated team in the country for only the 6th time
Fact : Owns the second longest win streak in McKale history
Fact : Numerous top 10 recruiting classes including one ranked number 1
Fact : Chosen to be the head coach of USA basketball (u-19) where he won the gold medal (only slouches need apply)
Fact : Is currently taking a class what has only one starter from the previous year to the top 20 including 3 freshman starters.

You really should get some perspective. Some of you are the same fans that thought Lute was an avg. tourney coach. He is in the MF Hall of Fame. He won a Natl championship at F'n Ariz. Arizona is LUCKY to have Miller he has done more then what most people (besides UCLA fans) would hope. If any of you had near this level of accomplishments at your job you would be CEO. It is time for him to move on so we can get Mick or someone of his caliber here. Idiots.

Fact: Zero Final Fours in 10 seasons with a multitude of top tier talent.

The other accomplishments you've listed are no doubt exemplary and worthy of commendation. However his inflexible and antiquated coaching philosophy indicates he's reached his ceiling at Arizona. That's my perspective at this point. Miller's a good coach but going forward I'm certain he'll never break through here unless he adapts and evolves his coaching style to succeed in the current world of college basketball. He's becoming the Gene Keady of college basketball. We can do better IMHO. He's been given enough time (10 years). It's past time to have figured it out. He inherited a branded program albeit in transition. Nonetheless he didn't build the program and really only had to focus on continuity. No more excuses.

AzWdCatFan · Post by **AzWdCatFan** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:46 pm

TheCat wrote:
AzWdCatFan wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:This year's Gonzaga team quite frankly isn't shit. Most of our teams would've beat them at home easily.
This! I can't even begin to tell you how much I agree with this comment! And I live just outside of Spokane. The lov,e and credit, this team is getting is not only unwarranted, it's down right sickening.

I know it makes us feel better as fans to believe that our loss is equal parts poor shooting, and facing a juggernaut, but that is wishful thinking on our part.

We have issues, some fixable, some not. But despite the comeback, this was in no ways a good loss!
The Zags probably have the best record against the best set of teams in the country. They lost to a hot shooting Michigan team. They beat Oregon. They may be overrated but not near Mich ST or some of the other teams that were/are above them.

Understand that in no way am I questioning Miller, but to think that this Zags team is anywhere near the level of a true top 5 team, in most seasons, is foolishness. They beat Oregon (a team that is mercurial at best, and though talented is prone to some really spotty play) on a neutral court by 1, then got blown out by a now severely overrated Michigan team. They got by Washington, on the road, but the Huskies are a fringe ranked team who, like Arizona, is relying on freshmen who haven't yet gotten their legs under them. And they beat us on the road (easily their best win to date), although like Washington, we are incredibly young in some key positions, our star point guard had what is likely going to be the worst shooting game of his career, our entire backcourt struggled to put the ball in the basket despite numerous open looks, their transfer guard who had been struggling with his shot all year magically went 4 of 4 from the 3-point line, and it still ended up only a two possession game. The Zags are good, no doubt about it, but they are not great, and many of our previous teams, under Miller, would have steamrolled them last night.

BTW, what really convinced me that they weren't a great team was the almost-collapse that they had at the end of the game. A truly great team doesn't give up a 16-point lead over a 2 minute window, on the road or not.

Arizona will improve over the course of the year, and may go from being a good team to a great one, but I fully believe that this Gonzaga team is today what they are going to be at the end of the season. Our potential improvement curve is much greater overall.

TheCat · Post by **TheCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:01 pm

Arizona did what they needed to do to beat the Zags. They held TO down, equaled them on the boards, shot a great % in their free throws, and actually made more fg's than the Zags. The Zags shot 17 more free throws and scored 5 more points at the line. It was a painfully game to watch because Arizona could not hit a shot. Taking 30 threes will not win many teams games. Az actually had 17 more shots than the Zags. Just couldn't hit them.
Could have gone into the press earlier to see what would have happened, given Max more of a run, got the ball to Green a few more times. The rest of the game plan was solid.

TheCat · Post by **TheCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:07 pm

Captain Obvious wrote:
TheCat wrote:Typical Arizona fans after a loss. Some people that I'm surprised at.

Fact: Arizona has had 7 -30 win season all time. 4 of these are under Miller
Fact : Miller has won 5 Pac 12 championships (4 outright)
Fact : Miller won 250 games at Arizona in 324 tries the 5th fastest EVER in Div 1.
Fact : Miller had 3 undefeated home seasons
Fact: Won 25 games in 5 straight seasons and at the time the only other teams were Duke and Kansas to accomplish this.
Fact : Az had the #1 (2013) rated team in the country for only the 6th time
Fact : Owns the second longest win streak in McKale history
Fact : Numerous top 10 recruiting classes including one ranked number 1
Fact : Chosen to be the head coach of USA basketball (u-19) where he won the gold medal (only slouches need apply)
Fact : Is currently taking a class what has only one starter from the previous year to the top 20 including 3 freshman starters.

You really should get some perspective. Some of you are the same fans that thought Lute was an avg. tourney coach. He is in the MF Hall of Fame. He won a Natl championship at F'n Ariz. Arizona is LUCKY to have Miller he has done more then what most people (besides UCLA fans) would hope. If any of you had near this level of accomplishments at your job you would be CEO. It is time for him to move on so we can get Mick or someone of his caliber here. Idiots.
Fact: Zero Final Fours in 10 seasons with a multitude of top tier talent.

The other accomplishments you've listed are no doubt exemplary and worthy of commendation. However his inflexible and antiquated coaching philosophy indicates he's reached his ceiling at Arizona. That's my perspective at this point. Miller's a good coach but going forward I'm certain he'll never break through here unless he adapts and evolves his coaching style to succeed in the current world of college basketball. He's becoming the Gene Keady of college basketball. We can do better IMHO. He's been given enough time (10 years). It's past time to have figured it out. He inherited a branded program albeit in transition. Nonetheless he didn't build the program and really only had to focus on continuity. No more excuses.

They are not only worthy of commendation they are some of the best in all of college basketball. You should fire the coach at Kansas, Duke and Kentucky because they were overwhelming favorites and didn't reach the final 4. Miller has been on the doorstep 3 times. Lost twice to Whisky and once to UConn by 2 the eventual national champion.

To help add some perspective. North Carolina lost to Wofford today and #3 ranked Ohio State is likely to lose to that juggernaut Minn. They still have 6 mins left but down by 14.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:34 pm

TheCat wrote:Typical Arizona fans after a loss. Some people that I'm surprised at.

Fact: Arizona has had 7 -30 win season all time. 4 of these are under Miller
Fact : Miller has won 5 Pac 12 championships (4 outright)
Fact : Miller won 250 games at Arizona in 324 tries the 5th fastest EVER in Div 1.
Fact : Miller had 3 undefeated home seasons
Fact: Won 25 games in 5 straight seasons and at the time the only other teams were Duke and Kansas to accomplish this.
Fact : Az had the #1 (2013) rated team in the country for only the 6th time
Fact : Owns the second longest win streak in McKale history
Fact : Numerous top 10 recruiting classes including one ranked number 1
Fact : Chosen to be the head coach of USA basketball (u-19) where he won the gold medal (only slouches need apply)
Fact : Is currently taking a class what has only one starter from the previous year to the top 20 including 3 freshman starters.

You really should get some perspective. Some of you are the same fans that thought Lute was an avg. tourney coach. He is in the MF Hall of Fame. He won a Natl championship at F'n Ariz. Arizona is LUCKY to have Miller he has done more then what most people (besides UCLA fans) would hope. If any of you had near this level of accomplishments at your job you would be CEO. It is time for him to move on so we can get Mick or someone of his caliber here. Idiots.

Great post. Doesn’t absolve Miller from some criticism on recruiting or pack line, etc... But If you’re ready to part ways with Miller because he misses at least an Elite 8, then I hope you’re ready for a long drought with whatever coach replaces him. Our AD has managed to screw the pooch with football and has proved to be weak in managing the FBI investigation. Do you really have faith he’d be able to upgrade the basketball program.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:38 pm

I am in no way ready to call for Miller being fired. That’s ludicrous to me.

I am in every way ready for Miller to take this program to the next level. And I’ve seen no evidence that’s happening this year. That’s profoundly disappointing to me.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 8:48 pm

Anyone calling for Miller to be fired needs to get the fuck off this board and go join PGU or the Bruins fan base.

Insane the amount of crybabys who do not understand the damn game at all...

Bunch of freshmen, in college fucking finals for the first time ever, and a bunch of second tier older players...(lets not forget they must keep grades up)...its not damn rocket surgery you maroons...lighten the fuck up.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:37 pm

Chicat wrote:I am in no way ready to call for Miller being fired. That’s ludicrous to me.

I am in every way ready for Miller to take this program to the next level. And I’ve seen no evidence that’s happening this year. That’s profoundly disappointing to me.

How many more years does he get, Chi? Do the Pac titles and recruiting success merit an open-ended contract at AZ? Is there a higher threshold of success (ie: the FF) he needs to hit at some point? I like Sean Miller. I’ve always been clear about that. I just wonder if a change is needed. 10 years is a long time. And as a program, we’re nearly two decades since our last FF.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:43 pm

Chicat wrote:I am in no way ready to call for Miller being fired. That’s ludicrous to me.

I am in every way ready for Miller to take this program to the next level. And I’ve seen no evidence that’s happening this year. That’s profoundly disappointing to me.

This is where I am at as well.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:46 pm

Chicat wrote:I am in no way ready to call for Miller being fired. That’s ludicrous to me.

I am in every way ready for Miller to take this program to the next level. And I’ve seen no evidence that’s happening this year. That’s profoundly disappointing to me.

With the caveat that it's still very early in the season, I cosign every thing in your post.

Login • Register