Bear Down Wildcats

ChooChooCat wrote:My sole argument to this very good post is that Arizona doesn't need to recruit like Sean Miller has to have the utmost success. If anything personally you could argue that Miller's level of recruiting has been a hindrance for him and his program.

This kind of ties in to what I've been arguing about 5-star recruits being overvalued. It's not that you just disregard these players altogether. Some of these elite players dream of playing at AZ. But history has shown that you don't need large clusters of these players to reach the FF. You just need an excellent coach and players that fit his system. See Jay Wright, Brad Stevens, Tony Bennett, et al.

Great thread today...I agree with pretty much everything said to this point. I think it's time to move on, the program's reputation has slowly regressed the last few years and I don't want to see it continue prospectively.

Choo/97/others - if you had to guess, what do you think the odds are that we actually make a move at the end of this year? 25%? I unfortunately feel confident that it's not happening this year. At this point, it just sort of feels like a waste of time to pay attention to the team religiously like I have for the last 15+ years, and that probably won't change until Sean is gone.

goslingswagg wrote:Great thread today...I agree with pretty much everything said to this point. I think it's time to move on, the program's reputation has slowly regressed the last few years and I don't want to see it continue prospectively.

Choo/97/others - if you had to guess, what do you think the odds are that we actually make a move at the end of this year? 25%? I unfortunately feel confident that it's not happening this year. At this point, it just sort of feels like a waste of time to pay attention to the team religiously like I have for the last 15+ years, and that probably won't change until Sean is gone.

Choo and 97 are best to answer the odds of a coaching change question.

I'm also interested in a realistic list of possible next coaches.

Lando05 wrote:Rumor the other board that was taken down is that Green is done for the season. His camp thinks Miller is hurting his stock. Idk if true but with that and the Hazzard rumor now is our team self imploding at the worst possible time?

Missing every fucking open jump shot is hurting his stock.

i have no idea on a percentage only my own personal opinion - there are many people who matter that don’t want him gone no matter what but more bad loses are hard to digest.

as the pressure mounts there is a limit, even for those that proclaim they don’t have one.

if they get it together and win that solves almost any and all speculation, if they lose bad, at this point, that makes people crankier than they already are.

Man, a lot boiling under the surface re tonight’s game vs UCLA.

97cats wrote:i have no idea on a percentage only my own personal opinion - there are many people who matter that don’t want him gone no matter what but more bad loses are hard to digest.

as the pressure mounts there is a limit, even for those that proclaim they don’t have one.

if they get it together and win that solves almost any and all speculation, if they lose bad, at this point, that makes people crankier than they already are.

Thanks for sharing my man. Always nice to hear from a legend

CalStateTempe wrote:Man, a lot boiling under the surface re tonight’s game vs UCLA.

It's rare I don't think we have a chance to win a basketball game. Tonight we have little to no chance and it's a bad feeling. Luckily it's not an experience we have to feel very often as Arizona basketball fans.

97cats wrote:i have no idea on a percentage only my own personal opinion - there are many people who matter that don’t want him gone no matter what but more bad loses are hard to digest.

as the pressure mounts there is a limit, even for those that proclaim they don’t have one.

if they get it together and win that solves almost any and all speculation, if they lose bad, at this point, that makes people crankier than they already are.

Yup to all of this. If it weren't for the botched football hire I'd say it would be a certainty Miller would be gone after this year if we did not perform in the tourney. With that situation being what it is though chances as far as I can tell are nil barring some major changes of heart. By the end of next season though Miller is either getting a multi year extension or he's out.

97cats wrote:i have no idea on a percentage only my own personal opinion - there are many people who matter that don’t want him gone no matter what but more bad loses are hard to digest.

as the pressure mounts there is a limit, even for those that proclaim they don’t have one.

if they get it together and win that solves almost any and all speculation, if they lose bad, at this point, that makes people crankier than they already are.

Reminded of a Dylan song:

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'

On another board, a year or so ago, it was stated that ALL of those with their names on buildings at the UofA were solidly behind Sean Miller. I do not believe that statement is necessarily true today.

97cats wrote:

Lando05 wrote:Thank you for sharing 97Cats. Yeah I think I knew when we lost to Xavier...

March 17, 2016

66-55 bitch slapping by Wichita State

felt like we lost that game by 30.

It's time to move on from Miller.

He has been awesome for us in many respects but he needs some time away and UA needs a fresh perspective.

Bordercat wrote:It's time to move on from Miller.

He has been awesome for us in many respects but he needs some time away and UA needs a fresh perspective.

Seems a lot more of us are with you than against this opinion.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Bordercat wrote:It's time to move on from Miller.

He has been awesome for us in many respects but he needs some time away and UA needs a fresh perspective.

Seems a lot more of us are with you than against this opinion.

Too bad there isn't an easy way to search for all the posts where we said "I am done with Miller". I imagine mine was 6(?) weeks ago?

Get a more player friendly coach. Very few modern players like receiving the Bobby Knight treatment any more.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Bordercat wrote:It's time to move on from Miller.

He has been awesome for us in many respects but he needs some time away and UA needs a fresh perspective.

Seems a lot more of us are with you than against this opinion.

It’s an interesting exercise in decisions/decision making/consensus making/etc.

The thing that was so impossible, so voodoo to talk about, so beyond the pale six weeks ago....

...now feels like the general consensus.

Interesting how things change.

Another question:

Who are the active coaches who you absolutely consider to be better coaches than Miller? I'm curious to see how long a list it is.

SCCats wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

Bordercat wrote:It's time to move on from Miller.

He has been awesome for us in many respects but he needs some time away and UA needs a fresh perspective.

Seems a lot more of us are with you than against this opinion.

It’s an interesting exercise in decisions/decision making/consensus making/etc.

The thing that was so impossible, so voodoo to talk about, so beyond the pale six weeks ago....

...now feels like the general consensus.

Interesting how things change.

Feels like we're right on the edge of a tailspin death spiral.

Well according to ESPN Duke had one of the the best recruiting classes and the greatest player to ever play since Lebron James last year and they didn't win... so...fire Coack Krysninszxfdjbf8i

CatFanOneMil wrote:Well according to ESPN Duke had one of the the best recruiting classes and the greatest player to ever play since Lebron James last year and they didn't win... so...fire Coack Krysninszxfdjbf8i

True, but they did go 32-6 and reach the Elite 8. If we put up that kind of season, people would feel a lot better about Miller right now.

Why not give Jack Murphy a go? He's an AZ guy, is proud of the program, has been working under Miller so could continue some things, has relationships with current players, young, good energy...

Let him have a go.

CatFanOneMil wrote:Well according to ESPN Duke had one of the the best recruiting classes and the greatest player to ever play since Lebron James last year and they didn't win... so...fire Coack Krysninszxfdjbf8i

The difference is Coach K gets results on a consistent basis. No one expects Miller or any coach to get to the FF every year but Miller's consistency has been with recruiting players that don't fit in with his antiquated style of coaching. Simply put, other coaches have evolved and Miller has not. There's recruiting which Miller obviously excels at but then there's devising your coaching strategy around those players to get the most out of their specific talents and potential. Coach K, Calipari, Williams, and Self have figured it out. Until Miller does, the same pattern of underachievement and failure will continue to manifest itself.

It pains me to take the same side of an argument as a pseud like Captain Obvious, but tonight should mark the (unofficial) end of the Miller era at Arizona. Let him finish out this campaign, but it is time to #BlowItUp.

I do not expect that we will get a coach who will replicate his body of work (all you gomer-homers who think "the Arizona brand recruits itself" are kool-aid brigade junkies), but he has peaked and has been regressing for a long enough period to consider it a trend. I would consider this the most disappointing team of his tenure.

He made a complete fucking ass of himself tonight. Giving UCLA 4 free points and getting himself booted with 12 min left in a must-win game on the road is inexcusable. Do not expect your team to stay focused and positive in the face of adversity when the example you set is one of a whiny desperate little bitch. Life is not fair... deal with it like a fucking man.

Back to regularly scheduled programming. #OverAndOut

The best thing about Sean Miller regressing and time tonight’s loss is it got Harvey Spector posting again.

CatFanOneMil wrote:Well according to ESPN Duke had one of the the best recruiting classes and the greatest player to ever play since Lebron James last year and they didn't win... so...fire Coack Krysninszxfdjbf8i

Elite 8 teams since 2016:

Oklahoma
Oregon x2
North Carolina x2
Notre Dame
Virginia x2
Syracuse
Kansas x3
Villanova x2
Florida
South Carolina
Gonzaga x2
Xavier
Kentucky x2
Kansas State
Loyola-Chicago
Florida State
Michigan
Texas Tech x2
Duke x2
Michigan State
Purdue
Auburn

You should get the point

Who is the last guy who played fucking hard for this team? TJ and RHJ come to mind immediately.

Harvey Specter wrote:It pains me to take the same side of an argument as a pseud like Captain Obvious, but tonight should mark the (unofficial) end of the Miller era at Arizona. Let him finish out this campaign, but it is time to #BlowItUp.

I do not expect that we will get a coach who will replicate his body of work (all you gomer-homers who think "the Arizona brand recruits itself" are kool-aid brigade junkies), but he has peaked and has been regressing for a long enough period to consider it a trend. I would consider this the most disappointing team of his tenure.

He made a complete fucking ass of himself tonight. Giving UCLA 4 free points and getting himself booted with 12 min left in a must-win game on the road is inexcusable. Do not expect your team to stay focused and positive in the face of adversity when the example you set is one of a whiny desperate little bitch. Life is not fair... deal with it like a fucking man.

Back to regularly scheduled programming. #OverAndOut

Completely agree. And to make it worse the non-call that set him off was correct. Nico had his shot blocked cleanly. They ran the replay at least 3 times. Even RJ said it wasn't a foul.

Miller lost his composure and cost us critical points that would have been handy to have at the end of a close game.

God damn what a bitch move Miller.

Take a breathe and a step back.

i tend to think Arizona will win both these games at home and show out well enough in Vegas to get a middle seed.

im gonna stay right there for now.

97cats wrote:i tend to think Arizona will win both these games at home and show out well enough in Vegas to get a middle seed.

im gonna stay right there for now.

I agree.

Regarding the PAC12 tourney at this point I am actually hoping that we fall to a 6 seed and avoid Udub in the play in game on Wednesday. They have enough athletes/size that they could actually show up in one game and beat us.

BTW, I got my PAC12 tourney tickets from the UA ticket office today

dmjcat wrote:

Harvey Specter wrote:It pains me to take the same side of an argument as a pseud like Captain Obvious, but tonight should mark the (unofficial) end of the Miller era at Arizona. Let him finish out this campaign, but it is time to #BlowItUp.

I do not expect that we will get a coach who will replicate his body of work (all you gomer-homers who think "the Arizona brand recruits itself" are kool-aid brigade junkies), but he has peaked and has been regressing for a long enough period to consider it a trend. I would consider this the most disappointing team of his tenure.

He made a complete fucking ass of himself tonight. Giving UCLA 4 free points and getting himself booted with 12 min left in a must-win game on the road is inexcusable. Do not expect your team to stay focused and positive in the face of adversity when the example you set is one of a whiny desperate little bitch. Life is not fair... deal with it like a fucking man.

Back to regularly scheduled programming. #OverAndOut

Completely agree. And to make it worse the non-call that set him off was correct. Nico had his shot blocked cleanly. They ran the replay at least 3 times. Even RJ said it wasn't a foul.

Miller lost his composure and cost us critical points that would have been handy to have at the end of a close game.

To be fair, Pac-12 refs have totally had it out for Miller and Arizona since the Ed Rush fiasco.

They were lousy again tonight, but not the reason the Cats lost. Between tonight's ejection and the blow-up at the end of regulation on a (also seemingly correct) no-call at Oregon, Miller seems to have finally let that incompetence get in his head.

And, unlike Lute, nothing good is going to come of Miller sending game tape to Walnut Creek. I truly feel for the man, because right now he seems to be coaching without a friend in the world on the court.

Or maybe his finally showing some true passion and fierceness for this team is exactly what’s needed to avoid 2 losses next week and a Wednesday exit in Vegas? Usually I’m yelling for him to calm down....but tonight- after all the continued complete drama we’ve had AGAIN these past few days (weeks. Months. Years)..it was a strange relief to see vintage- nasty- Sean.

i didn’t mind the ejection - is it his first ever?

Refreshing to see the coach (Murphy) blaming himself and not the players

I would have grabbed the fucking ball from the refs and punted it into one of their assholes. I never complain about officiating, but tonight was just stupid.

dmjcat wrote:Refreshing to see the coach (Murphy) blaming himself and not the players

He's dead on here. There is no reason at all he should have went away from Nico in the PNR late. Sorry Murph, but that was dumb.

dmjcat wrote:Refreshing to see the coach (Murphy) blaming himself and not the players

I am guessing you are being sarcastic.

he’s protecting Mannion who didn’t want the ball

This was the best game Nico’s had in weeks, so I’m not gonna criticize him too much.

Beachcat97 wrote:This was the best game Nico’s had in weeks, so I’m not gonna criticize him too much.

i thought he was awful the last two and a half minutes of the game - didn’t want the ball or the responsibility playing both with the lead and then from behind

he needs an offseason to mature

97cats wrote:he’s protecting Mannion who didn’t want the ball

Perhaps, but Nico was literally calling the sets to Miller and Murph the majority of the second half. He was slicing their PNR coverage and looked confident. So if his confidence evaporated in the final four minutes, then I'm baffled.

Beachcat97 wrote:This was the best game Nico’s had in weeks, so I’m not gonna criticize him too much.

It’s hard when your other option is Smith, who shot 3-18 on the trip. That puts a lot on Nico’s shoulders. But Miller said last week, this is what they signed up for.

TucsonClip wrote:

97cats wrote:he’s protecting Mannion who didn’t want the ball

Perhaps, but Nico was literally calling the sets to Miller and Murph the majority of the second half. He was slicing their PNR coverage and looked confident. So if that changes in the final four minutes, then I'm baffled.

Well explain to me why if he was in charge all game he gave up the ball three times in the last 2:30 minutes both with the lead and then from behind in the half court?

97cats wrote:

TucsonClip wrote:

97cats wrote:he’s protecting Mannion who didn’t want the ball

Perhaps, but Nico was literally calling the sets to Miller and Murph the majority of the second half. He was slicing their PNR coverage and looked confident. So if that changes in the final four minutes, then I'm baffled.

Well explain to me why if he was in charge all game he gave up the ball three times in the last 2:30 minutes both with the lead and then from behind in the half court?

Murph was calling sets which were not initial PNR action, which made no sense to me.

man Mannion looked tired to me, perhaps you’re correct, I stand down.

the tripping on the drive one high seems to be burnt in my brain

97cats wrote:man Mannion looked tired to me, perhaps you’re correct, I stand down.

the tripping on the drive one high seems to be burnt in my brain

I honestly don't know the answer one way or another. I just found it extremely odd that Murph would go away from PNR action with Nico late when it had been successful the majority of the half.

Perhaps the coaching staff doesn't have the confidence in him late to shoulder the offense in crunch time? Not saying you're wrong, as Nico hasn't exactly proven to be a reliable closer.

I appreciate the rational discussion, guys. I missed the last 5 minutes--had to go teach class. Another crappy side benefit to playing at night (my morning) all the time. Really disappointing to see how this played out and it has undeniably become a trend. Also shows how important Green is to the team even when he's not scoring. Miller is going to have a heart attack. He's just wired so tight. He was obviously wrong on the Mannion call, though you can see how he missed it. But the end of the Oregon game he was right--having Dave Pasch continuously repeat an erroneous take on whether something is a foul or not doesn't change reality. Nnaji was fouled. None of that matters in the larger scheme of things. Mannion is the key to everything. When he is in control, the team hums on offense. When he jacks up ill-advised shots repeatedly, the offense falls apart. And it usually leads to fast break offense for the other team. At this point, the only real hope we have come tourney time is Connecticut luck. But that only seems to happen for the other guys.

97cats wrote:i didn’t mind the ejection - is it his first ever?

I didn't mind it at the time either, but it didn't exactly motivate the boys to go out there and win one for the gipper, although they admittedly had 1.5 hands tied behind their back at that point. If anything Miller going at the refs just motivated them that much more to be 3 colossal c***suckers.

That is a pretty good tweet. Even using the word “buying” the finest filet and lobster!

Alieberman wrote:That is a pretty good tweet. Even using the word “buying” the finest filet and lobster!

Perfect illustration of Miller's plight. Buy a Ferrari, drive it like a chrysler. Hasn't been much of a return on
Miller's 'investments'.