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I don't know. But again, what is more valuable TV real estate? 11:00 PM Eastern on a Saturday night on ESPNU in October? Or midday on EPSN, May on a Saturday? Because that's the difference we're talking about.PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:26 pmWhat is the average viewership of U of A softball in the regular season on espn? How many millions of people?AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:23 pmActually, they do. Which cost more for a 30 second commercial. A 11:00 PM Eastern spot on ESPNU in the Fall? Or a 4:00 PM Eastern spot on ESPN in the Spring?dmjcat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:01 pmESPN/Fox/Networks don't agree with you.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:58 pmSure. Compare Arizona with any of the top 35 revenue generating programs in football and we can't offer anything in the spring to compare. But the next 35 football programs? In terms of revenue and eyeballs, not much of a difference. So if you're ESPN, and all the top 35 football programs are taken up in long-term contracts, who has more value to you? The 45th best football team, with spring sports to match? Or the 55th best football program, but top 10 in all springs sports? The answer is the latter.dmjcat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:42 pm
The differences in spring sports revenue are far more "minimal" than the football differences. Again, football accounts for around 80% of total revenue and thats why AZ is ranked below most of the teams mentioned........and thats not my opinion. Its the opinion of the media outlets (Fox/ESPN) that are driving the re-alignment.
You are not spending significant time and money promoting the 45th best football team over the 55th. Both teams are empty calories, and the meat and potatoes are the top programs. The only way the 45th or 55th best team gets prime tv in the fall is if they are playing one of the big guys. Football may be 80%, but programs 45 and 55 don't have enough the pie to significantly move the needle.
But a school that is top 10 in spring sports to fill out a conference has some value to the TV networks. This is a school the network can ignore in the fall, but promote the hell out of in the spring. Versus say ASu. Think they will ever get top billing in football? Or in the spring?
The first round of expansions have involved the top tiers in football. They are most valuable. The football also-rans will be lumped into the next group. And Arizona has a lot to offer, because our percentage we can garner from the 20% for spring sports is more valuable than the miniscule percentages of the 80% schools like Arizona and Colorado have when it comes to football.
Agreed - Try to keep the remaining Pac 10 teams in tack, then bring in Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, BYU, Houston. That takes it to 18. If these super conferences go to 20, then add a couple more out of Cincinnati, West Virginia, Central Florida, or maybe even San Diego State, Nebraska. Don't forget the ACC to rob from also as I think they may fall apart in time too.
RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:39 am This guy was right about USC and UCLA to the big ten a long time ago and has some interesting tweets lately
Some really tough decisions in the near future...MountainCat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:54 pmAgreed - Try to keep the remaining Pac 10 teams in tack, then bring in Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, BYU, Houston. That takes it to 18. If these super conferences go to 20, then add a couple more out of Cincinnati, West Virginia, Central Florida, or maybe even San Diego State, Nebraska. Don't forget the ACC to rob from also as I think they may fall apart in time too.
If something doesn't happen by the end this week in regards to WU and OU moving to the Big 10 or the 4 Pac 12 teams to the Big 12, then the Pac ## could survive with any luck. If it does, then USC and UCLA may regret their move as they could become a future opponent.
...then again who knows what may happen. May just have to wait our fate. I hope Robbins doesn't screw this up.
Thats not how it worksAzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:53 pmI don't know. But again, what is more valuable TV real estate? 11:00 PM Eastern on a Saturday night on ESPNU in October? Or midday on EPSN, May on a Saturday? Because that's the difference we're talking about.PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:26 pmWhat is the average viewership of U of A softball in the regular season on espn? How many millions of people?AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:23 pmActually, they do. Which cost more for a 30 second commercial. A 11:00 PM Eastern spot on ESPNU in the Fall? Or a 4:00 PM Eastern spot on ESPN in the Spring?dmjcat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:01 pmESPN/Fox/Networks don't agree with you.AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:58 pm
Sure. Compare Arizona with any of the top 35 revenue generating programs in football and we can't offer anything in the spring to compare. But the next 35 football programs? In terms of revenue and eyeballs, not much of a difference. So if you're ESPN, and all the top 35 football programs are taken up in long-term contracts, who has more value to you? The 45th best football team, with spring sports to match? Or the 55th best football program, but top 10 in all springs sports? The answer is the latter.
You are not spending significant time and money promoting the 45th best football team over the 55th. Both teams are empty calories, and the meat and potatoes are the top programs. The only way the 45th or 55th best team gets prime tv in the fall is if they are playing one of the big guys. Football may be 80%, but programs 45 and 55 don't have enough the pie to significantly move the needle.
But a school that is top 10 in spring sports to fill out a conference has some value to the TV networks. This is a school the network can ignore in the fall, but promote the hell out of in the spring. Versus say ASu. Think they will ever get top billing in football? Or in the spring?
The first round of expansions have involved the top tiers in football. They are most valuable. The football also-rans will be lumped into the next group. And Arizona has a lot to offer, because our percentage we can garner from the 20% for spring sports is more valuable than the miniscule percentages of the 80% schools like Arizona and Colorado have when it comes to football.
Schools like Arizona and Colorado have such a small percentage of the 80% that it's negligible. We're the schools that play the late games on the U or the Conference Network unless we are playing a top team that gets top billing. And there are so many TV networks, and so many timeslots. For football, we're just filler content. But so are Utah, ASu, and Colorado. For football, really think ESPN distinguishes between these schools? We know they don't. How many times have they confused us with ASu?
But it's not like all these schools are the same. For football, yes, but there is 20% of the pie that has value. If it didn't, ESPN wouldn't broadcast college basketball and the baseball/softball tournaments. And it's in the spring sports Arizona has more value than some of the schools we may be competing with if it comes down to limited slots.
Again, put us against a team that has top football revenue, and it's no contest, nor does it matter what that school does in the spring. Football is king. And this is why Arizona isn't mentioned in the first wave of expansion, but schools like Texas, Oklahoma, USC, and UCLA were. But among the football also-rans, we have a lot more to offer than many others, thanks to the strength of our spring sports.
Fox and ESPN have baked in commercial rates for 30 second spots when they negotiate with the conferences? I don't think that's how it works, and selling air time is one of the ways these networks make money. The only way for Fox OTA (over-the-air), whereas cable companies also get subscription fees, known as carriage fees. I guess both can do paid informercials too, but they aren't huge revenue generators. And generally, the market sets the price for advertising dollars. A single DMA, 30-second spot on ESPN probably runs maybe $250 to $300. On a OTA network, same time spot is $2,000 to $3,000. Nationally, you are getting into the big bucks. Super Bowl last year, 30 seconds cost $5.6 million.PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:03 pmThats not how it worksAzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:53 pmI don't know. But again, what is more valuable TV real estate? 11:00 PM Eastern on a Saturday night on ESPNU in October? Or midday on EPSN, May on a Saturday? Because that's the difference we're talking about.PHXCATS wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:26 pmWhat is the average viewership of U of A softball in the regular season on espn? How many millions of people?AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:23 pmActually, they do. Which cost more for a 30 second commercial. A 11:00 PM Eastern spot on ESPNU in the Fall? Or a 4:00 PM Eastern spot on ESPN in the Spring?
The first round of expansions have involved the top tiers in football. They are most valuable. The football also-rans will be lumped into the next group. And Arizona has a lot to offer, because our percentage we can garner from the 20% for spring sports is more valuable than the miniscule percentages of the 80% schools like Arizona and Colorado have when it comes to football.
Schools like Arizona and Colorado have such a small percentage of the 80% that it's negligible. We're the schools that play the late games on the U or the Conference Network unless we are playing a top team that gets top billing. And there are so many TV networks, and so many timeslots. For football, we're just filler content. But so are Utah, ASu, and Colorado. For football, really think ESPN distinguishes between these schools? We know they don't. How many times have they confused us with ASu?
But it's not like all these schools are the same. For football, yes, but there is 20% of the pie that has value. If it didn't, ESPN wouldn't broadcast college basketball and the baseball/softball tournaments. And it's in the spring sports Arizona has more value than some of the schools we may be competing with if it comes down to limited slots.
Again, put us against a team that has top football revenue, and it's no contest, nor does it matter what that school does in the spring. Football is king. And this is why Arizona isn't mentioned in the first wave of expansion, but schools like Texas, Oklahoma, USC, and UCLA were. But among the football also-rans, we have a lot more to offer than many others, thanks to the strength of our spring sports.
Fox and espn already have all that baked into everything when they negotiate with the conferences
Gross.
CopaCat wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:58 pmYou are pretty much correct on everything you said other than Rutgers. Not sure Rutgers brings the NYC market into the equation much? Other than being located there. Who the hell is watching Rutgers? Nobody. They totaled 45 million in revenue last year. That would make them last in the Pac by a wiiide margin. They have been accruing massive debts the last several years in order to raise their mid major like program.1stNGrant Frys wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 3:57 pmRutgers and Maryland are in for the NYC and DC markets respectively. And yes despite their lack of success they have strong fanbases. Northwestern (ie Chicago) and far higher academics than UA. MN is a founding member with roughly equal academics to U of A.CopaCat wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:20 pmMaybe because we are a growing state and the UofA is a large University. We have great Basketball, Baseball, and Softball Programs. Could have a very competitive Football program under the right circumstances(being in one of big boy conferences would vault us up a notch or 2). Why does the Big 10 have Rutgers or Maryland? Minnesota? Northwestern? The UofA is better than all of them as far as athletics go.PHXCATS wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:56 pmWhy would any of those conferences want UA?CopaCat wrote: ↑Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:55 pm
Neither. It's Big 10, SEC, possibly ACC or bust. These other conferences will all be 2nd tier at some point and the recruiting disadvantages of being 2nd tier will ruin our athletic programs. Not to mention a much much smaller opportunity to ever have a shot at National Championships. That is why this whole thing is a frigging joke. Barely even worth caring about college athletics anymore unless your school is economic powerhouse. Oh and Fuck Larry Scott for being a lazy parasite with no foresight whatsoever.
The Big 10 now has the largest markets for TV viewing across the country, and AZ is really an afterthought compared to such. The population of AZ and the population distribution of West is small relatively.
I really don't understand this sentiment. Arizona is absolutely not the odd man out in that situation. We're much more desirable than Utah or Colorado.dmjcat wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:08 pmI can also see UW/UO not getting a B1G invite and instead going to the B12..........which then has two spots left to pick from among Utah/asu/ua/Col..........with the UA being the odd man out and nowhere to go but back to a glorified WAC/MWC.
I would rather see both UW/UO get picked up by the B1G. What we have here is a consolidation of CFB teams........with fewer power schools left over once this game of musical chairs ends. The UA needs a chair to sit down in. We are a long way from being in a good position.
No one ever said meeting. Discussions was the phrase used. Would be Heeke and Robbins with input from Heeke's staff and coachesCatsbyAZ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:30 pm When statements are made like - "Four PAC-12 schools are reportedly meeting with Big 12 Officials about joining the conference. They include Arizona, ASU, Colorado, and Utah" - who exactly would the U of Arizona be sending on the university's behalf to these meetings with the Big 12? A legal counsel to the AD?
Nor should there be. Adding low value schools does nothing for anyone in the PAC. If we expand, we need to start with current BIG 12 teams like OK State, TCU, TTech, and Baylor. Those schools have value.
I'll have to consult my therapist on that.EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:01 pm Is it possible to just shut down this thread for the sake of preventing mental illness?
Gross. Some of ya'll are excited to be paired up with a bunch of 5s and 6s.
Same can be said for the PAC and our gold-digging ass dimes just left us for the rich guy with all the cash. At this point a lot of us are solely focused on the potential basketball matchups. Football is going to shittier depths with the big corps (FOX,etc) finally getting to controll what and who goes where (USC,UCLA) and the average football viewer viewing something non football related. I feel I speak for a lot of us when I say, Fresno St in the Pac
fuck that give me Kansas, Baylor and Houston at home.That’s how I feel, college fb will only be about 5/6 teams now and I rely only watch my team, so I can more about how this affects arizonas cash cow, basketball, at this point.KillerKlown wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:12 amSame can be said for the PAC and our gold-digging ass dimes just left us for the rich guy with all the cash. At this point a lot of us are solely focused on the potential basketball matchups. Football is going to shittier depths with the big corps (FOX,etc) finally getting to controll what and who goes where (USC,UCLA) and the average football viewer viewing something non football related. I feel I speak for a lot of us when I say, Fresno St in the Pac
Lol if those are 5s and 6s, what does that make the remaining Pac-10 schools? 3s and 4s? This conference has been atrocious from a competitive standpoint for too long and when given the opportunity to improve numerous times through expansion they always took the conservative route and now look where it's brought us. Fuck the Pac-12.GlobalCat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:54 pmGross. Some of ya'll are excited to be paired up with a bunch of 5s and 6s.
If I'm any of the remaining 10 ADs, I'm throwing budget at the Stanford educated lawyers and law firms to bring the legal complaint to the UC Regents + Gavin Newsom to lobby/sue to block UCLA's departure while reminding anyone who will listen that Fox Sports is still part of Rupert Murdoch's empire. A bit of a wildcard play, but school administrations don't like to be affiliated with that kind of tainted business - particularly UC leadership. Getting some good ol' fashion public shaming is worth it.
In parallel, I'd be rallying the Mountain West, WCC, and any school in between to keep USC's closest scheduled games in the Big10 as punishment. Their recent arrogance is obscene, particularly with Lincoln Riley's arrival and the cash being thrown around behind the scenes... some of which is hiding the fact they recently had billion dollar settlements that forced divestments and program cuts.
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:49 am
Lol if those are 5s and 6s, what does that make the remaining Pac-10 schools? 3s and 4s? This conference has been atrocious from a competitive standpoint for too long and when given the opportunity to improve numerous times through expansion they always took the conservative route and now look where it's brought us. Fuck the Pac-12.
Lol
Exactly. This has been an issue for YEARS and feigning ignorance is not an effective strategy.
They're just going to hitch their wagon to George and his moronic ACC "partnership" and they're going to eat it up and jerk each other off as they scream about academics and then just be right back in this same spot 10 years later as the good ACC schools leave for the B1G and SEC.SabinoDrifter wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:27 amExactly. This has been an issue for YEARS and feigning ignorance is not an effective strategy.
We have to get out now to the big 12 and force they're hands, else we'll be fucked even more in a couple years from now when they try to bolt again
That has to be on the top of Robbin's and Heeke's mind. UA will end up in some reformed WAC with WSU/ntOSU if UO/UW go to the Big 12 with Utah/Colorado.RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:48 am We have to get out now to the big 12 and force they're hands, else we'll be fucked even more in a couple years from now when they try to bolt again