Bear Down Wildcats

How about the game v. ASU. ASU was going for a 2 point conversion, but only had 10 men on the field. A time out was wasted, then UA again sent 10 guys out there and ASU still scored.

How about the UA 2 point conversion attempt. UA was down 6 after scoring a touchdown. So instead of kicking the PAT, with one of the best kickers in the PAC, Fisch decided to go for two with the worst red zone offense in recorded history.

Let's think about this. Cats down 6, and having a hard time punching it in the end zone, but scoring lots of FGs. If the Cats make the PAT, they are only down 5, and 2 FGs would win it.

Now in what world, does it help anything if you do make the 2 PT conversion, and are only down 4. 2 FGs will still win it, but if you don't make the 2 PT conversion, you are still down 6, and 2 FGs will only tie it.

In all my 5+ decades of watching college ball, have I ever seen this attempted.

Just shows complete lack of football IQ.

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:11 am UW game. Up 16-7 and driving. 5 straight run plays, for 40 yards (35 total because of false start penalty). 1st and 10 and the UW 28, and I know Fisch wanted to call a "safe" pass play, but why? We were running the ball down their throats, and in a positive position. If you call play action, you go for the end zone. Especially after 5 straight running plays averaging 8 ypc. If you are going to throw the ball, play-action, then throw a fade. Last you want to do is turn the ball over. But what do we call? A screen play, that UW sniffed out quickly and intercepted the ball!

Just one example of many. But this switched the entire momentum of the game. I don't remember the alignment of the D, but after calling 5 straight running plays, a decent play fake would have held the Safeties and given our WR 1-on-1 with their corners. A deep fade is also a relatively safe pass, especially if there is unlikely to be safety help.

Personally, if you are averaging 8 ypc on a drive, why even throw the ball at all. Run it down their throats until they prove they can stop you. But if you are going to risk the pass, and are running the ball well, you run a fake and go deep. Just one of many times our playcalling caused many a curse word to come out of my mouth; and one that likely cost us a win.

Yeah, I’m not sure how you can watch that Washington game and think Jedd is a great play caller. He not only called some headscratchers on individual plays but the entire second half he coached not to lose instead of just saying fuck it and letting his winless team grab the momentum and ride it into the win column.

Also there was the game where we kept throwing it even though the QB’s hand was injured. And I’m not talking about 5 yard dump offs. But 20 yard out routes where the ball had to be delivered into tight windows with velocity. It was maddening, but because I didn’t have 18 different coaching jobs in 20 years like Jedd Lasso I’m not allowed to have an opinion on this. Sorry Grumpy/Av8. Won’t happen again.

One thing that is a weird change for me is how much I enjoy the offseason with Fisch. As some have said he owns the offseason and his relentless recruiting at a high level has been a true highlight.

He is going to announce a few transfers here soon and we once again will be excited in who we beat out for these guys

azcat49 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:03 am One thing I think we would all agree upon is that it’s much easier to call a play when a team knows you are going to run it but they just can’t stop it.

We never had that luxury last year. We couldn’t even run it against NAU. Play action stops working and they just bring some pressure and things break down quickly.

He has to own our offensive deficiencies because he calls the plays and our results were embarrassingly dismal but I think once he gets the talent in here to execute his play calls that we will flip that narrative

It's why it's hard to tell with Fisch for me. We didn't do anything well last year on offense.

We couldn't establish the run. Berryhill was the only quasi-playmaker we had and our QB's threw a lot of picks.

So you couldn't set up the pass with the threat of a run or vice versa because the defense didn't really have to get out of it's base for either. Most defenses had to think with a base 4 man rush they'd do fine getting QB pressure and stopping the run. So they could just sit there and let us come to them.

I'm not saying Fisch will necessarily become a better playcaller, but last year, he just didn't have plays that worked. When we needed 3-4 yards, we had a bunch of equally bad options.

I think Fisch certainly can become a better playcaller.

Or maybe he can do what Dabo Swinney did and recruit such incredible players that it hardly matters what plays are being called.

Right in the same boat with you Spiff. We just didn’t have the horses and I think he knew that and tried some unconventional calls to try and make things work.

I have to tell myself that because it was head scratching at times. Just hope with this influx of better talent we marvel at his improvement in play calling

azcat49 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:28 pm Right in the same boat with you Spiff. We just didn’t have the horses and I think he knew that and tried some unconventional calls to try and make things work.

I have to tell myself that because it was head scratching at times. Just hope with this influx of better talent we marvel at his improvement in play calling

Right, for me, to say Fisch made bad decisions implies there were good decisions.

Our offense last year was often deciding whether you wanted to go 3 and out by running, incomplete passes or a combo.

Now if Fisch can land Caleb Williams he can draw up plays with a stick in the ground for all I care...



(insert laugh track here)

I really doubt Fisch has a "complete lack of football IQ"
All I know is we were expected to suck because of a lack of talent and we did suck. I'm still putting the suckage on lack of talent rather than incompetent coaching.

How many P5 head football coaches call the offensive (or defensive) plays for that matter? Just curious, don't really know.

Don't believe RichRod did, nor Stoops. Not sure if Sumlin did anything except keep incompetent staff on.

Even Dick Tomey brought in Homer Smith to bring some creativity to the UA offense. Even then, Tomey was fired/quit and the UA hired Mackovic since he was some sort of an offensive guru, and he did make Jason Johnson into a record setting UA QB. Heck, look at BJ Denker, who made whose arm strength made RhettRod look like Peyton Manning.

But in all these cases, they found plays that their QBs could perform.

Fisch seems like Sean Miller. We are going to run the pack line defensive no matter what, even if we have the best center in the nation, and have him go out on the perimeter and run hedge screens.

Chicat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:07 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:11 am UW game. Up 16-7 and driving. 5 straight run plays, for 40 yards (35 total because of false start penalty). 1st and 10 and the UW 28, and I know Fisch wanted to call a "safe" pass play, but why? We were running the ball down their throats, and in a positive position. If you call play action, you go for the end zone. Especially after 5 straight running plays averaging 8 ypc. If you are going to throw the ball, play-action, then throw a fade. Last you want to do is turn the ball over. But what do we call? A screen play, that UW sniffed out quickly and intercepted the ball!

Just one example of many. But this switched the entire momentum of the game. I don't remember the alignment of the D, but after calling 5 straight running plays, a decent play fake would have held the Safeties and given our WR 1-on-1 with their corners. A deep fade is also a relatively safe pass, especially if there is unlikely to be safety help.

Personally, if you are averaging 8 ypc on a drive, why even throw the ball at all. Run it down their throats until they prove they can stop you. But if you are going to risk the pass, and are running the ball well, you run a fake and go deep. Just one of many times our playcalling caused many a curse word to come out of my mouth; and one that likely cost us a win.

Yeah, I’m not sure how you can watch that Washington game and think Jedd is a great play caller. He not only called some headscratchers on individual plays but the entire second half he coached not to lose instead of just saying fuck it and letting his winless team grab the momentum and ride it into the win column.

Also there was the game where we kept throwing it even though the QB’s hand was injured. And I’m not talking about 5 yard dump offs. But 20 yard out routes where the ball had to be delivered into tight windows with velocity. It was maddening, but because I didn’t have 18 different coaching jobs in 20 years like Jedd Lasso I’m not allowed to have an opinion on this. Sorry Grumpy/Av8. Won’t happen again.

Actually, the specifics help make the debate worthwhile.
Wouldn't it be more interesting to analyze why you think he is so bad? Do you really believe he is unaware of all these things you think are obvious? Why then wouldn't he do it like you think he should? There has to be a reason. Did he have more faith in his players abilities than he should have? Is it the transition from coaching pros who are all fundamentally sound to kids who don't know all the basics yet, that he didn't know how to dumb it down enough?

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:54 pm How many P5 head football coaches call the offensive (or defensive) plays for that matter? Just curious, don't really know.

Don't believe RichRod did, nor Stoops. Not sure if Sumlin did anything except keep incompetent staff on.

Even Dick Tomey brought in Homer Smith to bring some creativity to the UA offense. Even then, Tomey was fired/quit and the UA hired Mackovic since he was some sort of an offensive guru, and he did make Jason Johnson into a record setting UA QB. Heck, look at BJ Denker, who made whose arm strength made RhettRod look like Peyton Manning.

But in all these cases, they found plays that their QBs could perform.

Fisch seems like Sean Miller. We are going to run the pack line defensive no matter what, even if we have the best center in the nation, and have him go out on the perimeter and run hedge screens.

I think RR's gimmick offense was more suited to lesser, smaller players. Sumlin's offense was suited for his rectum.
Should you waste no time implementing the system you intend to run or should you continue to try to run some of what you were left with because it suits the talent you have?

Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:54 pm But in all these cases, they found plays that their QBs could perform.

What kind of plays did we set up nicely to run last year?

Running a system to fit existing talent presumes you have existing talent.

I mean, Fisch may be a bad play caller, but I'd think our talent lent itself to kneeling down to run out the clock and not a ton else.

AV8RCAT wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:58 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:07 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:11 am UW game. Up 16-7 and driving. 5 straight run plays, for 40 yards (35 total because of false start penalty). 1st and 10 and the UW 28, and I know Fisch wanted to call a "safe" pass play, but why? We were running the ball down their throats, and in a positive position. If you call play action, you go for the end zone. Especially after 5 straight running plays averaging 8 ypc. If you are going to throw the ball, play-action, then throw a fade. Last you want to do is turn the ball over. But what do we call? A screen play, that UW sniffed out quickly and intercepted the ball!

Just one example of many. But this switched the entire momentum of the game. I don't remember the alignment of the D, but after calling 5 straight running plays, a decent play fake would have held the Safeties and given our WR 1-on-1 with their corners. A deep fade is also a relatively safe pass, especially if there is unlikely to be safety help.

Personally, if you are averaging 8 ypc on a drive, why even throw the ball at all. Run it down their throats until they prove they can stop you. But if you are going to risk the pass, and are running the ball well, you run a fake and go deep. Just one of many times our playcalling caused many a curse word to come out of my mouth; and one that likely cost us a win.

Yeah, I’m not sure how you can watch that Washington game and think Jedd is a great play caller. He not only called some headscratchers on individual plays but the entire second half he coached not to lose instead of just saying fuck it and letting his winless team grab the momentum and ride it into the win column.

Also there was the game where we kept throwing it even though the QB’s hand was injured. And I’m not talking about 5 yard dump offs. But 20 yard out routes where the ball had to be delivered into tight windows with velocity. It was maddening, but because I didn’t have 18 different coaching jobs in 20 years like Jedd Lasso I’m not allowed to have an opinion on this. Sorry Grumpy/Av8. Won’t happen again.

Actually, the specifics help make the debate worthwhile.
Wouldn't it be more interesting to analyze why you think he is so bad? Do you really believe he is unaware of all these things you think are obvious? Why then wouldn't he do it like you think he should? There has to be a reason. Did he have more faith in his players abilities than he should have? Is it the transition from coaching pros who are all fundamentally sound to kids who don't know all the basics yet, that he didn't know how to dumb it down enough?

It’s not a debate if you’re asking me to defend what I see watching games by reading Jedd’s mind.

In general I think coaches believe that if they work on plays enough in the offseason and the game plan enough during the week of practice, the players should be able to go out and execute it and they should win.

I’m of the belief that you should only try to pound a square peg into a round hole so many times before you reshape the peg or the hole. I hope Jedd comes around to that way of thinking or that he recruits such talented and athletic players that they stomp the peg into the hole and make Jedd look like a genius. Either way, we need to get better. And that’s not something anyone can argue against.

Jedd has shown moments where he was good and bad. There was some good times too. Cracking the code on Oregon by running the ball right at them. That was good. Confusing Utah for a big part of the game. That was good. Maybe the bad out numbered the good, but you can’t say it was all bad.

Chicat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:59 pm It’s not a debate if you’re asking me to defend what I see watching games by reading Jedd’s mind.

I lean toward thinking that someone who is doing something I don't know how to do, may have a reason for how he does it and that's what I was considering.

We just got a linebacker from USC. Fisch is doing good things. I think he'll figure out how to get the offense moving too.

AV8RCAT wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:06 pm We just got a linebacker from USC. Fisch is doing good things. I think he'll figure out how to get the offense moving too.

Nicking an upperclassman LB from SC is huge.

Chicat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:59 pm

AV8RCAT wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:58 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:07 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:11 am UW game. Up 16-7 and driving. 5 straight run plays, for 40 yards (35 total because of false start penalty). 1st and 10 and the UW 28, and I know Fisch wanted to call a "safe" pass play, but why? We were running the ball down their throats, and in a positive position. If you call play action, you go for the end zone. Especially after 5 straight running plays averaging 8 ypc. If you are going to throw the ball, play-action, then throw a fade. Last you want to do is turn the ball over. But what do we call? A screen play, that UW sniffed out quickly and intercepted the ball!

Just one example of many. But this switched the entire momentum of the game. I don't remember the alignment of the D, but after calling 5 straight running plays, a decent play fake would have held the Safeties and given our WR 1-on-1 with their corners. A deep fade is also a relatively safe pass, especially if there is unlikely to be safety help.

Personally, if you are averaging 8 ypc on a drive, why even throw the ball at all. Run it down their throats until they prove they can stop you. But if you are going to risk the pass, and are running the ball well, you run a fake and go deep. Just one of many times our playcalling caused many a curse word to come out of my mouth; and one that likely cost us a win.

Yeah, I’m not sure how you can watch that Washington game and think Jedd is a great play caller. He not only called some headscratchers on individual plays but the entire second half he coached not to lose instead of just saying fuck it and letting his winless team grab the momentum and ride it into the win column.

Also there was the game where we kept throwing it even though the QB’s hand was injured. And I’m not talking about 5 yard dump offs. But 20 yard out routes where the ball had to be delivered into tight windows with velocity. It was maddening, but because I didn’t have 18 different coaching jobs in 20 years like Jedd Lasso I’m not allowed to have an opinion on this. Sorry Grumpy/Av8. Won’t happen again.

Actually, the specifics help make the debate worthwhile.
Wouldn't it be more interesting to analyze why you think he is so bad? Do you really believe he is unaware of all these things you think are obvious? Why then wouldn't he do it like you think he should? There has to be a reason. Did he have more faith in his players abilities than he should have? Is it the transition from coaching pros who are all fundamentally sound to kids who don't know all the basics yet, that he didn't know how to dumb it down enough?

It’s not a debate if you’re asking me to defend what I see watching games by reading Jedd’s mind.

In general I think coaches believe that if they work on plays enough in the offseason and the game plan enough during the week of practice, the players should be able to go out and execute it and they should win.

I’m of the belief that you should only try to pound a square peg into a round hole so many times before you reshape the peg or the hole. I hope Jedd comes around to that way of thinking or that he recruits such talented and athletic players that they stomp the peg into the hole and make Jedd look like a genius. Either way, we need to get better. And that’s not something anyone can argue against.

No argument, we need to get better. I think we are and the least of our issues is play calling. A number of people in here seemed to have made it a priority and I think that is ridiculous. Someone said it very well stating how in the world would he know what was going through Fisch's mind. "I'm no mind reader" I think he said. I think a lot of things went through Fisch's mind. By the way I believe he had on head phones and someone in the booth was telling him things and in spite of what some may think I believe the OC was telling him things. His play calling was based on all of that along with the game plan that was devised for that game. Shame on him for not reaching out and asking you what he should have called.

tgrumpy2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:48 pmShame on him for not reaching out and asking you what he should have called.

Yeah, maybe against NAU. I could have reminded him he was playing a shitty FCS team and that he needed to pretend he was a Power 5 coach.

AV8RCAT wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:47 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:59 pm It’s not a debate if you’re asking me to defend what I see watching games by reading Jedd’s mind.

I lean toward thinking that someone who is doing something I don't know how to do, may have a reason for how he does it and that's what I was considering.

I’d love to be your doctor.

“We’ll, I’m no surgeon, so I’m just going to assume there was a reason Dr. Chicat left that scalpel in my chest cavity…”

While past results are no guarantee for future results, again Fisch's play calling resume at U. Miami, UCLA, and the Jags is a lot of meh. Sure, we had a talent issue last year, but it's not like Fisch made a lot of great calls. It was meh with little to no talent.

Fisch had little say who we had on the team. And he's done an admiral job improving the talent level. But if the play calling is more meh, we would need Alabama talent plus to win big. And at Arizona, that's not going to happen.

It's the coach's job to put the players in the best position to win. There will be times when the talent disparity may be too great to overcome, but Fisch left wins on the table. NAU, UW, and even ASu. Not going to win all winnable games, but we need to do better.

Just got a linebacker from Michigan.

Pretty impressive that he is getting some of the best players available when he is apparently, obviously? a terrible coach. Hard to believe all of the football people advising them haven't warned them.

It's funny how in the spring and summer, many were saying we were going to win 1 maybe 2 games because of a lack of talent. I predicted 4 wins because I thought the new staff could invigorate and coach up the demoralized players. Now I'm saying "Wow, you guys were right, we had nothing to work with" and many of them are now saying Fisch failed by not getting more out of the "talent" he had.

I think we were about one good QB away from a lot better play calling and a couple more wins.

I think that when after one year, you publicly predict Fisch is going to fail here, part of you will be hoping for that so you can be right.

I think I'll just choose to think about how we might succeed rather than why we might fail.

We’ve been an emotionally abused fan base for years. Glimmers of hope, then gut wrenching losses. I’m giving Jedd a pass on his first season as HC, but I understand how skeptics might not be on board. Arizona football has tainted us all in one way or another. This recruiting class gives me something to believe in. We’ve never had the opportunity to flip high profile kids or have kids 100% committed to Arizona the entire process without some big name school coming in on the last hour to break our hearts. These are uncharted waters for us. Yes, we still have positions of need, but if you just take a look at the plethora of tools at WR & TE it’s hard not to get excited! The crown jewel in this class played both ways at Servite. The kid is a warrior and it’s going to be all kinds of fun watching T-Mac destroy secondaries.

I’m excited!

Sid wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:58 am We’ve been an emotionally abused fan base for years. Glimmers of hope, then gut wrenching losses. I’m giving Jedd a pass on his first season as HC, but I understand how skeptics might not be on board. Arizona football has tainted us all in one way or another. This recruiting class gives me something to believe in. We’ve never had the opportunity to flip high profile kids or have kids 100% committed to Arizona the entire process without some big name school coming in on the last hour to break our hearts. These are uncharted waters for us. Yes, we still have positions of need, but if you just take a look at the plethora of tools at WR & TE it’s hard not to get excited! The crown jewel in this class played both ways at Servite. The kid is a warrior and it’s going to be all kinds of fun watching T-Mac destroy secondaries.

I’m excited!

I don't think the impact of this class can be overstated. I doubt we would be pulling transfers from USC and Michigan without it, and yes, their benchwarmers have a good chance to be better than our starters.

I think we are taking advantage of the new world order (aka Transfer Portal) where pretty good players at major programs want to showcase their skills, i.e. getting immediate playing time.

That's a good thing and Fisch appears to be nailing that along with convincing HS kids to come to Arizona.

But as Sid pointed out we are an emotionally abused fan base so as Winston Wolff said in Pulp Fiction:

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:28 am I think we are taking advantage of the new world order (aka Transfer Portal) where pretty good players at major programs want to showcase their skills, i.e. getting immediate playing time.

That's a good thing and Fisch appears to be nailing that along with convincing HS kids to come to Arizona.

But as Sid pointed out we are an emotionally abused fan base so as Winston Wolff said in Pulp Fiction:

Not even handjobs, but I just can't look at a culture shift that despite a true turd of a season, has us very successfully competing with the big boys for players and think "Fisch aint gonna cut it here"

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:28 am I think we are taking advantage of the new world order (aka Transfer Portal) where pretty good players at major programs want to showcase their skills, i.e. getting immediate playing time.

That's a good thing and Fisch appears to be nailing that along with convincing HS kids to come to Arizona.

I repeatedly say this to a friend who used to post here. An Arizona football coach has to be able to maximize all potential avenues of acquiring talent because we lack a built in pipeline for talent.

Portal, HS, Juco, at Arizona you have to be able to get talent anywhere you can because it isn't a place where the name and/or location does the job.

Recruiting talent is never bad. Fisch has done that. The second half is transitioning it to wins and we'll see how well he does with that in 2022 and 2023.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:28 am I think we are taking advantage of the new world order (aka Transfer Portal) where pretty good players at major programs want to showcase their skills, i.e. getting immediate playing time.

That's a good thing and Fisch appears to be nailing that along with convincing HS kids to come to Arizona.

But as Sid pointed out we are an emotionally abused fan base so as Winston Wolff said in Pulp Fiction:

A tad late with that precaution, lol! If Lasso can get to 2 wins, perhaps he'll stick around. From his resume, when the going gets tough, Jedd gets going exit stage right.
Think 2 is his ceiling next year.

After what Fisch has done in recruiting I don’t see any scenario where we put him on the hot seat even if he goes 1-11 again next year.

I don’t expect that record but if he can stockpile three good recruiting classes in a row the pay off year will be year 4.

I think a second 1-11 record will put a real hardship on his recruiting efforts.

Win 3 games next year and be competitive in 3-4 more games and that will show some real momentum and should give recruits the idea that we are on the cusp of turning the corner.

I think the Vegas over/under on wins will be 2.5. So 3 wins would be a success.

Remember all those who gave Stoops a pass for the Mackovic years? Many posters thought he deserved 6 years.


So if Jedd gets 3 wins next season, and 6 the next, I imagine he will take the redeye out to a more glamourous job.

It also took Jedd Lasso all of fall camp and 3 games to figure out who his best QB was.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:36 pm It also took Jedd Lasso all of fall camp and 3 games to figure out who his best QB was.

Shades of Mike Stoops!

I was as perplexed by the QB play and choices as well last year.

Reports were Cruz and Plummer were neck and neck and the McCloud was behind and was throwing too many picks.

Cruz wins and throws for 200 plus vs a BYU team that goes 5-0 against the PAC. Then he looks absolutely dreadful against SDST.

Plummer gets his shot and looks good for the first 29 minutes and throws the worst pick at the worst time against the worst team on our schedule. He gets buried on the chart until injuries puts him back in.

McCloud gives it a go and looks good but gives up 5 possessions against Oregon and then looks good in moving the ball and protecting it until he got hurt. But why the disaster of a preseason and first game?

They were all pretty young and this system is quite complex but then that goes right back to coaching. This is an area Fisch must own.

Stoops showed progress in year 3. 6-6, if I remember correctly, after two 3-8 seasons. Would have gone to a bowl game today, but there weren't 70 bowl games back then, so we were locked out. Year 4 was a disappointment, going 5-7, and Stoops' seat was warm entering year 5. But he went 8-5 with a Vegas Bowl win, and followed it up with another 8-5 season and a Holiday Bowl trip. Slow progress, but if you break the first six years into 2-year chunks, the win totals were 6, 11, 16. Too bad Stoops couldn't continue with this progression, because it would have meant 21 wins over the next two years. Didn't exactly happen, as the win total dropped to 7 and then 4 (Stoops was fired with just 1 win).

We made the right decision to let Stoops have enough rope to hang himself. Fire him after the progress he made would have been a mistake. Stoops got us close to the top of the mountain, but it became painfully obvious he wasn't the right guy to get us all the way there.

I'd love to see Fisch make similar progress. A bowl game in year 3 would be fantastic, even if it's just a trip to Albuquerque. Would set up year four for a better bowl, and hopefully year 5 to compete for a championship. By the way, Stoops did finish 2nd in the PAC in year 5, and might have won it with a healthy Gronk, who didn't play a down for us that year.

The improved talent level is a necessary step, but again, it's going to take more than just better talent. Stoops failed because he couldn't contain himself on the sidelines and was toxic to assistants. But talent wise, the 2009 team was pretty darn good with Foles, Criner, Reed, Mitchell, and of course, Gronk, all of whom played in the NFL.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:00 pm After what Fisch has done in recruiting I don’t see any scenario where we put him on the hot seat even if he goes 1-11 again next year.

I don’t expect that record but if he can stockpile three good recruiting classes in a row the pay off year will be year 4.

Next year is about player development. The 22 class probably won't be ready to play a heavy role on the field yet. So, we need for returners to be ready.

The schedule is interesting in that there are 5-6 potentially winnable games, but zero gimmes. NDSU is legit and totally can pull an upset. Maybe best case we can be the one inexplicable loss Mike Leach picks up each year.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:59 pm

azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:00 pm After what Fisch has done in recruiting I don’t see any scenario where we put him on the hot seat even if he goes 1-11 again next year.

I don’t expect that record but if he can stockpile three good recruiting classes in a row the pay off year will be year 4.

Next year is about player development. The 22 class probably won't be ready to play a heavy role on the field yet. So, we need for returners to be ready.

The schedule is interesting in that there are 5-6 potentially winnable games, but zero gimmes. NDSU is legit and totally can pull an upset. Maybe best case we can be the one inexplicable loss Mike Leach picks up each year.

I would not be surprised if NDSU is favored in that game, unless we add a proven QB.

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:09 pm I would not be surprised if NDSU is favored in that game, unless we add a proven QB.

NDST put 3 straight QBs in the NFL. The UA since that time?

NDST also is 13-1 and the only loss was to SDST by 8 points.

So yea, they might be favored.

The one thing i'm not hearing is that while the portal makes it convenient to restock depleted rosters, it is also a quick way to drain a roster.

What if all this losing gives the decent players we do have itchy feet?

RichardCranium wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:33 pm The one thing i'm not hearing is that while the portal makes it convenient to restock depleted rosters, it is also a quick way to drain a roster.

What if all this losing gives the decent players we do have itchy feet?

Why don’t we worry about that problem once we get decent players on the field playing first.

RichardCranium wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:33 pm The one thing i'm not hearing is that while the portal makes it convenient to restock depleted rosters, it is also a quick way to drain a roster.

What if all this losing gives the decent players we do have itchy feet?

One thing I've noticed lately is that the kids that leave Arizona seem to end up at G5 schools while we're pulling in P5 kids. There are exceptions of course.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:26 pm

RichardCranium wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:33 pm The one thing i'm not hearing is that while the portal makes it convenient to restock depleted rosters, it is also a quick way to drain a roster.

What if all this losing gives the decent players we do have itchy feet?

Why don’t we worry about that problem once we get decent players on the field playing first.

Yeah, I'm not really sweating the market for any of our current players. We're not exactly looking at a bunch of guys you think are irreplaceable and I expect their portal market would reflect that.

We currently have a top 20 recruiting class w/o counting transfers. Top 20, let that sink in. That has got to help us in the transfer portal. Fisch must have disguised the obvious fact that he is an inferior coach, since a bunch are offense and high profile one's may have some professional guidance on who to trust their multimillion dollar futures to.

just sayin

AV8RCAT wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:04 am We currently have a top 20 recruiting class w/o counting transfers. Top 20, let that sink in. That has got to help us in the transfer portal. Fisch must have disguised the obvious fact that he is an inferior coach, since a bunch are offense and high profile one's may have some professional guidance on who to trust their multimillion dollar futures to.

just sayin

You are adorable.

Let's list all the coaches who are great recruiters and terrible coaches. I'll start:

Penny Hardaway
Josh Pastner
Ed Orgeron

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 9:35 am Let's list all the coaches who are great recruiters and terrible coaches. I'll start:

Penny Hardaway
Josh Pastner
Ed Orgeron

Willie Taggart, Steve Lavin, and Mike Stoops say “Hi there! Don’t forget about Steve Sarkisian, or Kevin Sumlin before he completely surrendered to the bottle down in Tucson.”

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:59 pm

azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:00 pm After what Fisch has done in recruiting I don’t see any scenario where we put him on the hot seat even if he goes 1-11 again next year.

I don’t expect that record but if he can stockpile three good recruiting classes in a row the pay off year will be year 4.

Next year is about player development. The 22 class probably won't be ready to play a heavy role on the field yet. So, we need for returners to be ready.

The schedule is interesting in that there are 5-6 potentially winnable games, but zero gimmes. NDSU is legit and totally can pull an upset. Maybe best case we can be the one inexplicable loss Mike Leach picks up each year.

NDSU upset wont happen because they will be favored in that game. If we win it would be an upset. Agree they are legit and won a bunch of titles.

Being an underdog at home against an FCS team would be fucking embarrassing.