Bear Down Wildcats

The ACC is stuck with their current contract. Maybe ESPN will let them out if a strong enough BIG-PAC-ACC is created. But the schools that don't make the cut will certainly have something to say.

If the BIG 12 could add the 4 corner PAC plus UW and Oregon, that is a conference strong enough to survive until 2036. Could make a play for Clemson, FSU, Miami, and one other, like NC State. These schools aren't AAU schools, so unlikely to get a BIG 10 invite. And these schools by this point may not add enough value to the SEC. And we would get a BIG-PAC-ACC, eventually.

azcat49 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:20 pm If you don’t have at least a second bidder for those rights then you are at the mercy of their low ball offer.

The conference is in an exclusive window with espn and fox currently. They can't talk to anyone else right now

Yea but is Fox even bidding? Seems like the reports are ESPIN only?

Will Arizona say screw it to the Pac-12 and bolt to the Big-12 on their own? It would be a risky move because you don't know if any of the current Big-12 schools are looking to leave.

I think if Arizona left, there would be a domino effect with the other Pac-12 schools.

I think it's been said that the ABOR is tying both Arizona schools together which will make it tough since ASU's Crow has been a strong Larry Scott supporter along with wanting to maintain the PAC as a conference.

The BIG 12 is looking at NBC as a potential media partner, as part of a deal to keep Notre Dame independent. Sounds funny at first, but sources are saying NBC is looking to pay ND $75 million to stay independent. Where the BIG 12 comes in is to provide "shoulder content" which are shows before and/or after the main show, which often gets piggyback viewership. Here's an article with the details: https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/ ... bc-report/

A good deal with NBC with solid lead-in and post ND games could make joining the BIG 12 more favorable. Right now, there is little difference between the PAC without LA and the BIG 12 without Texas and OK. But NBC could change the calculus.

Looks like only Arizona and Colorado actually want to leave

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:49 pm The ACC is stuck with their current contract. Maybe ESPN will let them out if a strong enough BIG-PAC-ACC is created. But the schools that don't make the cut will certainly have something to say.

If the BIG 12 could add the 4 corner PAC plus UW and Oregon, that is a conference strong enough to survive until 2036. Could make a play for Clemson, FSU, Miami, and one other, like NC State. These schools aren't AAU schools, so unlikely to get a BIG 10 invite. And these schools by this point may not add enough value to the SEC. And we would get a BIG-PAC-ACC, eventually.

I think a big enough merger would force a renegotiation of that ESPN contract. Of course that would require the cream of what is left in those 3 conferences. Otherwise it's moot.

If the SEC and Big 10 take 8 more schools each in the next 5 years I think that 3rd conference will be just about worthless for football competition against the B1G and SEC. That is the problem. Just got to hope those 2 don't want to water down their product and keep the status quo.

CopaCat wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 1:58 pm

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 9:49 pm The ACC is stuck with their current contract. Maybe ESPN will let them out if a strong enough BIG-PAC-ACC is created. But the schools that don't make the cut will certainly have something to say.

If the BIG 12 could add the 4 corner PAC plus UW and Oregon, that is a conference strong enough to survive until 2036. Could make a play for Clemson, FSU, Miami, and one other, like NC State. These schools aren't AAU schools, so unlikely to get a BIG 10 invite. And these schools by this point may not add enough value to the SEC. And we would get a BIG-PAC-ACC, eventually.

I think a big enough merger would force a renegotiation of that ESPN contract. Of course that would require the cream of what is left in those 3 conferences. Otherwise it's moot.

If the SEC and Big 10 take 8 more schools each in the next 5 years I think that 3rd conference will be just about worthless for football competition against the B1G and SEC. That is the problem. Just got to hope those 2 don't want to water down their product and keep the status quo.

Other than Notre Dame, I don't think any school that is not in the SEC or BIG10 already moves the needle in a positive money flow direction for the big 2 conferences. Schools will need to be worth $100 million or more to add value, and the most valuable left to the BIG 10 and SEC are schools like Washington and Florida State, that are closer to the $80 million range. The BIG10 would take Stanford along with Notre Dame even though Stanford dilutes the pot, because that might be the only way ND agrees to come.

The fact that the current ACC, BIG 12, and PAC schools don't move the needle for the SEC and BIG 10 leaves open the possibility of a BIG-PAC-ACC combination. But I still think the LA schools are going to want travel partners, and not be left on an island in S. Cal with no other teams closer than Nebraska. I can see the BIG 10 trying to poach Oregon and Washington after Stanford, as the two big NW schools dilute the pot less than the others, and gives the LA schools western siblings again.

But that begs the question, does ESPN want FOX to control USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington basically making the 10 pm EST timeslot Fox's domain? I don't think so, which is why ESPN might overpay for a short-term PAC contract to keep Oregon and UW temporarily happy while everyone waits for Notre Dame.

I also wonder what the SEC is going to do. Will they be happy ceding the west to the BIG 10? Or will it be spy versus spy with the SEC making the next move? We know the BIG 10 prefers to add AAU schools, and there's nothing more us remaining PAC schools would like to do than screw over the LA schools. Say the SEC makes a play for 8 PAC schools, Oregon, UW, Stan, CAL, Arizona, ASu, Utah, and Colorado. That would leave zero AAU schools for the BIG 10 to pick up, and make for a nice, 8-team SEC Pacific wing. The question is, would Stanford and CAL want to be in the SEC? If not, adding the other six would still be a coup for the SEC and ESPN.

Many moving parts for sure. And if the BIG 12 can get a solid deal from NBC, then a move certainly looks much more attractive to PAC schools, especially Colorado, Utah, and the Arizona schools. And might be able to drag Oregon and UW along too. Then it would be wait time until the ACC contract runs out and poach the best of those schools. Do that and the BIG 12 would be the third behind the BIG 10 and SEC, but not a distant one.

Merkin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:22 am I think it's been said that the ABOR is tying both Arizona schools together which will make it tough since ASU's Crow has been a strong Larry Scott supporter along with wanting to maintain the PAC as a conference.

They should just tell them to screw off.

Going full steam ahead with what should be Plan B before even seeing what is on the table for potential Plan A is a panic move. And exactly what I would expect from the Arizona brainless trust of Robbins and Heeke. There are so few scenarios that doesn't end in Arizona with no worse than a BIG 12 invite, it doesn't make sense to run to them before we have at least exhausted better potential possibilities, if any do exist. Especially with the consensus that ACC teams are stuck with their current buyout and won't even seek litigation to try and get out of it. Especially if the money is the same between the PAC and the BIG 12. Now, if the BIG 12 has told us NBC will give each school at least $10 million more each per year as shoulder content to Notre Dame, then the move becomes a little more palatable. But this is risky, because ND might move if/when a new playoff is announced, especially if there is no special ND stipulation. Then what?

'Bout time... if true.

If he is really in the know, why would he write AZ and not UA? He had CU right.

Besides, what about the ABOR?

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:25 pm Going full steam ahead with what should be Plan B before even seeing what is on the table for potential Plan A is a panic move. And exactly what I would expect from the Arizona brainless trust of Robbins and Heeke. There are so few scenarios that doesn't end in Arizona with no worse than a BIG 12 invite, it doesn't make sense to run to them before we have at least exhausted better potential possibilities, if any do exist. Especially with the consensus that ACC teams are stuck with their current buyout and won't even seek litigation to try and get out of it. Especially if the money is the same between the PAC and the BIG 12. Now, if the BIG 12 has told us NBC will give each school at least $10 million more each per year as shoulder content to Notre Dame, then the move becomes a little more palatable. But this is risky, because ND might move if/when a new playoff is announced, especially if there is no special ND stipulation. Then what?

No tellin', however, if this happens and Robbins/Heeke lead the charge, they just gained a point or two of respect from me. It is about time Arizona took charge and forged its own path forward.

U$C and UCLA already screwed us, but let's wait until Uncle Phil/Oregon and UDub bend us over!

Bold strategy Cotton.

He has already backtracked on a few things concerning us and that report.

Who cares if "we take charge of our own destiny," if it ends us up in a place that is not as good as the other possibilities? It's making a change just for change sake without considering the alternate possibilities might lead to a significantly better outcome. A shoot first, ask questions later mentality just because you are afraid that if you don't shoot, you're left with bullets in the chamber, which is another way of saying panic move.

If Oregon and UW screw us, it's not because they move to the BIG 12 and leave us out. It would be them moving to the BIG 10 or SEC, which would leave us with (wait for it)......an invitation to the BIG 12! And it's not like ACC teams are going to screw us. They've screwed themselves with an albatross of a contract that won't expire for another 14 years!

Let me put it another way. With no ACC teams available, if the top PAC teams get gobbled up by the two big conferences one way or another, how does this not end with a BIG 12 invite for Arizona? So isn't it better for us to see if we could get gobbled up by the big two first, and if we get rejected, we always have our BIG 12 as our safety conference. Or, we could take control of our own destiny, and remove all chances of ending up in one of the big two conferences, and potentially find ourselves stuck with trips to Lubbock, TX and Manhatten, KS, while our former PAC brethren outpace us by tens of millions ever year in payments.

Yeah we heard you the first 87 times.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:04 pm Yeah we heard you the first 87 times.

And yet, nobody has pointed out a flaw in my logic. And they still want to act just to say they did something, even though there's a chance we'd only be shooting ourselves in the foot. Makes no sense to me.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:49 pm U$C and UCLA already screwed us, but let's wait until Uncle Phil/Oregon and UDub bend us over!

Bold strategy Cotton.

Unless Robins and Heeke have insight into the espn offer it would be incredibly stupid to do this now

It's not if Oregon and Washington are going to screw us, it's when. Like Scheer says, ask them to sign something saying they will stay for a minimum of 10 years. They won't do it.

The PAC is dead.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:20 pm It's not if Oregon and Washington are going to screw us, it's when. Like Scheer says, ask them to sign something saying they will stay for a minimum of 10 years. They won't do it.

The PAC is dead.

Why would you not at least see what espn is offering in the exclusive window and then a few days to see what else comes up. Incredibly stupid not to. No one is saying wait a year or so but at least have all the available options known when you make a decision.

Also keep in mind who Scheer's sources are vs the sources that Canzano, Wilner and some others have.

We are now in G6 conference, no longer with the Power 4. Things will never be the same.

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:32 pm We are now in G6 conference, no longer with the Power 4. Things will never be the same.

You say so because you are listening to only Scheer and what his sources want. If you listen to Wilner and Canzano they think everything is good and staying is the best because thats what they want and what their sources want. The truth as always is in the middle.

If Apple or espn are willing to overpay by a lot it is worth it to stay as is or try to have some sort of alliance with the ACC. If those are not parties are not willing to overpay by a large margin then going makes sense.

If the yearly payout to UA is within a few million it is best to go to the Big 12. If espn or Apple or Amazon wants to keep the ten together and are willing to give UA $15M per year more than the Big 12 and the proper grant of rights or whatever the best term is can be signed by everyone then staying is the best option.

Either way to make a move without know what espn is willing to offer and if Amazon or Apple is interested would be the dumbest move possible

I listen to everybody Machina.

Then you clearly must have a good idea what espn is offering, so lets hear it. What is espn offering right now?

ESPN's Pete Thamel

https://superwestsports.com/thamel-expe ... in-pac-12/

“If Oregon and Washington are staying in the Pac-12, there’s going to be some unequal (revenue sharing)

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:54 pm Then you clearly must have a good idea what espn is offering, so lets hear it. What is espn offering right now?

Don't care. Don't trust Oregon and UDub. They are like the guy who is always looking to trade up in the girlfriend department.

Our athletic future sucks either way.

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:55 pm ESPN's Pete Thamel

https://superwestsports.com/thamel-expe ... in-pac-12/

“If Oregon and Washington are staying in the Pac-12, there’s going to be some unequal (revenue sharing)

I can see it but it still might be best to stay.

Just wait a few more weeks unless you know the offer and know Apple isn't interested

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:01 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:55 pm ESPN's Pete Thamel

https://superwestsports.com/thamel-expe ... in-pac-12/

“If Oregon and Washington are staying in the Pac-12, there’s going to be some unequal (revenue sharing)

I can see it but it still might be best to stay.

Just wait a few more weeks unless you know the offer and know Apple isn't interested

What do you think is happening? Of course any agreement to leave would most likely be back channeled in preparation for the inevitable low ball offer.

Like when free agents sign "negotiate" deals and sign immediately after free agency opens.

Just like USC and UCLA negotiated leaving for the B1G and it came out the last day the contracts expired and could leave without financial penalty.

If we leave for the Big 12, same thing will happen and Arizona would have already been negotiating the exit plan.

Merkin wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 8:22 am I think it's been said that the ABOR is tying both Arizona schools together which will make it tough since ASU's Crow has been a strong Larry Scott supporter along with wanting to maintain the PAC as a conference.

ABOR head is also Michael Crow’s stooge.

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:07 pm

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:04 pm Yeah we heard you the first 87 times.

And yet, nobody has pointed out a flaw in my logic. And they still want to act just to say they did something, even though there's a chance we'd only be shooting ourselves in the foot. Makes no sense to me.

Yes they have numerous times. You just refuse to see and accept what others are saying. You cling to the hopes that the PAC whatever will never die. You are truly afraid of change. SMH

Reports of Oregon and Washington wanting more of the pie to stay. F that noise. Get out now. They are who we thought they are.

I don't get the hate for Oregon and Washington

If every sport had its own broadcast rights vs the entire package U of A would demand a much higher chunk of the basketball rights. We would be pissed if UA basketball got the same amount as Washington State basketball and we would demand more in negotiations

This of course has the spin George wants out there but does talk the value of the late window

But it hasn’t been that way ever and we don’t get a bigger cut of the pie for basketball.

You do this and then they are holding you hostage. Next time they will want even more.

Let’s face, college sports as we once knew it is done. It’s not about the pageantry and rivalries anymore, it’s about big dollars and TV ad revenue. I don’t watch pro sports and I am pretty close to giving up college sports(don’t watch SEC and now B1G games)

I am not saying give into it and stay. I just dont get the hate for them wanting more when they bring in more.

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:17 am I don't get the hate for Oregon and Washington

If every sport had its own broadcast rights vs the entire package U of A would demand a much higher chunk of the basketball rights. We would be pissed if UA basketball got the same amount as Washington State basketball and we would demand more in negotiations

Except that with OU and UW might actually be happening and the other is just a random theory...

I wouldn't say it's just becuse of that on why people are a hating Oregon it's more because of a very minorty of people wanting to hold the pocket of Oregon and hope for the best which is such a moronic idea.

Basketcats wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:10 am

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:07 pm

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:04 pm Yeah we heard you the first 87 times.

And yet, nobody has pointed out a flaw in my logic. And they still want to act just to say they did something, even though there's a chance we'd only be shooting ourselves in the foot. Makes no sense to me.

Yes they have numerous times. You just refuse to see and accept what others are saying. You cling to the hopes that the PAC whatever will never die. You are truly afraid of change. SMH

Wrong. I don't care what happens to the PAC. I care what happens to the University of Arizona. If/when the PAC crumbles, and Arizona somehow finds itself in the BIG 10 or SEC, BTFD! If we don't, we'll have a soft landing in the BIG 12. But running straight to the BIG 12 now eliminates all other options, which makes no sense to me. The BIG 12 should not be our Plan A. It should be Plan B. Especially considering we won't have to worry about anyone, BIG 12 included, poaching ACC schools for at least another decade due to the ACC grant of rights contract.

Want to make the BIG 12 actually enticing? Get Oregon and Washington to agree to come along. Or, maybe add the 4 Corner PAC schools, plus SDSU and UNLV. Then, consort with the SEC and BIG 10 about paying for the ACC to get out of their contract, and split those schools up among the three power conferences. We won't have to worry about the BIG 10 taking FSU, Miami, or Clemson, as they are not AAU, but as long as at least one of them agrees to the BIG 12, then it will be worth it.

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:20 am

This of course has the spin George wants out there but does talk the value of the late window

#Pac12AfterDark is what actually hurts the conference the most and keeps it a lower tier sideshow

No one watches it besides late night degenerates on east of the Mississippi

Essentially a better version of MACtion, but a sideshow

But ESPIN is not over paying for those late night games.word is its about 25-30m for those tier 1 rights.

What can we make in tier 2 (streaming) and tier 3 (our own channel since we have a campus studio)?

Even if we picked up 10m from 2 and 3 it likely is still an amount that is lower vs the Big 12 payout.at some point you just have to put the bleeding animal out of its misery

Why do we hate UO and UDub?

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:40 am

PHXCATS wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:20 am

This of course has the spin George wants out there but does talk the value of the late window

#Pac12AfterDark is what actually hurts the conference the most and keeps it a lower tier sideshow

No one watches it besides late night degenerates on east of the Mississippi

Essentially a better version of MACtion, but a sideshow

For sure it is a balancing act between exposure and broadcast rights money. But espn is gonna overpay, how much is the question

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:34 am

Basketcats wrote: ↑Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:10 am

AzCatFan2 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:07 pm

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:04 pm Yeah we heard you the first 87 times.

And yet, nobody has pointed out a flaw in my logic. And they still want to act just to say they did something, even though there's a chance we'd only be shooting ourselves in the foot. Makes no sense to me.

Yes they have numerous times. You just refuse to see and accept what others are saying. You cling to the hopes that the PAC whatever will never die. You are truly afraid of change. SMH

Wrong. I don't care what happens to the PAC. I care what happens to the University of Arizona. If/when the PAC crumbles, and Arizona somehow finds itself in the BIG 10 or SEC, BTFD! If we don't, we'll have a soft landing in the BIG 12. But running straight to the BIG 12 now eliminates all other options, which makes no sense to me. The BIG 12 should not be our Plan A. It should be Plan B. Especially considering we won't have to worry about anyone, BIG 12 included, poaching ACC schools for at least another decade due to the ACC grant of rights contract.

Want to make the BIG 12 actually enticing? Get Oregon and Washington to agree to come along. Or, maybe add the 4 Corner PAC schools, plus SDSU and UNLV. Then, consort with the SEC and BIG 10 about paying for the ACC to get out of their contract, and split those schools up among the three power conferences. We won't have to worry about the BIG 10 taking FSU, Miami, or Clemson, as they are not AAU, but as long as at least one of them agrees to the BIG 12, then it will be worth it.

LMAO. No more dude. You just circled back and said what I was saying within the last 3 pages of replies. Done with replies to you. Gonna sit on the sidelines now and watch someone else fall for your trolling ways.

Maybe someone else can explain to me why joining the BIG 12 and their current cast of misfits should be Plan A, and not our Plan B? If all other options are off the table, then it's time for Plan B. Of if the BIG 12 can actually deliver us significantly more money in the short term, than that's a decent reason to go. But we haven't reached either point yet.

The reality is the current cast of PAC outcasts are collectedly worth as much as the current group of BIG 12 misfits. The difference the BIG 12 doesn't have any school of value like Oregon or Washington. So, for the time being, better to be patient and see if we can stick a better landing with the higher value schools. If not, a soft landing in the BIG 12 is almost guaranteed to be an option for us. Especially with the ACC being stuck together for over a decade.