Bear Down Wildcats

Just so I have this straight, ASSU fired Fraud Graham and paid him $12M to go away after a winning season and Territorial Cup win to hire a guy who hasn’t coached in a decade and apparently didn’t even know they were the Sun Devils until his first press conference?

Please please please, never stop being you ASSU.

He puts up a lot of points on the scoreboard of life

Like it matter on what they do to their program.

It shouldn't matter to us thou on what type of outcome it made be.

It simple, They can succeed or failed with their NFL style approach.

PHXCATS wrote:He puts up a lot of points on the scoreboard of life

Man so many opportunities to bring hype for their program next year and they did that

So you would assume he was joking about the devils thing but I have to wonder, their logo is a trident, the mascot is called sparky. Poseidon would throw lighting from his trident so he probably thinks they are Greek or DC comic related

Gotta be honest here. I'm pretty intrigued to see how this turns out.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:He puts up a lot of points on the scoreboard of life

See the 10:32 mark

Hype and Intrigue?

Whoaaaaa you guys are being way too nice!

This hire is an utter disaster!

I'm convinced that ASU hiring Herm Edwards (Herm Edwards?!?! - WTF!) will be as bad as Washington hiring Ty Willingham and Kansas hiring Charlie Weis.

I'll pretty much watch ASU football no matter what (even that Danny Sullivan season) but for the casual followers any intrigue will by mid-season be awarded with unbearable football.

cordera89 wrote:Like it matter on what they do to their program.

It shouldn't matter to us thou on what type of outcome it made be.

It simple, They can succeed or failed with their NFL style approach.

Well done identifying the two possible outcomes, but as for it mattering to us, they are our rival. Of course it matters. It would be silly to think otherwise.

A bit surprised there isn't as much of an outcry from asu fans/boosters. Because to me, this hire is WAY worse than when they were close to hiring June Jones and remember how that went over. Toad was nothing to write home about but I find it extremely hard to believe that anybody in their right mind would consider Herm better than Toad let alone better than (Toad + $12M)!

CatMG wrote:A bit surprised there isn't as much of an outcry from asu fans/boosters. Because to me, this hire is WAY worse than when they were close to hiring June Jones and remember how that went over. Toad was nothing to write home about but I find it extremely hard to believe that anybody in their right mind would consider Herm better than Toad let alone better than (Toad + $12M)!

There has been a ton of fan outrage over this. It’s the big money booster outrage that has been missing.

azgreg wrote:Gotta be honest here. I'm pretty intrigued to see how this turns out.

So am I. If they properly execute what they seem to be implying, could be real interesting.

Personal contacts to help with ESPN exposure have anything to do with it maybe? Seems like a pretty thin tightwire there, like razor edge thin. Somebody gonna get cut.

SCCats wrote:

azgreg wrote:Gotta be honest here. I'm pretty intrigued to see how this turns out.

So am I. If they properly execute what they seem to be implying, could be real interesting.

While I am all for the idea of changing the game, choosing Herm fucking Edwards as the man to lead said change pretty much dooms this to failure, imo

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:

SCCats wrote:

azgreg wrote:Gotta be honest here. I'm pretty intrigued to see how this turns out.

So am I. If they properly execute what they seem to be implying, could be real interesting.

While I am all for the idea of changing the game, choosing Herm fucking Edwards as the man to lead said change pretty much dooms this to failure, imo

It’s weird because you’d think that if you want to undertake this type of departure from the usual program structure, why not try and get Gruden or Les Miles?

It really just seems like Anderson wanted to give his buddy a job.

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:

SCCats wrote:

azgreg wrote:Gotta be honest here. I'm pretty intrigued to see how this turns out.

So am I. If they properly execute what they seem to be implying, could be real interesting.

While I am all for the idea of changing the game, choosing Herm fucking Edwards as the man to lead said change pretty much dooms this to failure, imo

If it's not executed properly it will crash and burn BIG time.

But perhaps Herm was chosen just because of the things many of us are shitting on, to fill a position that we don't fully understand yet.

The whole model is silly. This isn't the NFL where almost every game has a neat 28-24 final score type feel. This is college football where there are different schemes, 2-point conversions, 4th down tries, trick plays, etc. College football is about coaching, player evaluation/development, and making the critical call at the right time.

UofAlum05 wrote:The whole model is silly. This isn't the NFL where almost every game has a neat 28-24 final score type feel. This is college football where there are different schemes, 2-point conversions, 4th down tries, trick plays, etc. College football is about coaching, player evaluation/development, and making the critical call at the right time.

The idea is not to actually coach the team like an NFL organization its to operate it like one. If I am understanding correctly, they want Herm Edwards to be more a CEO type. So his duties are mainly closing recruits and fundraising / schmoozing boosters. The actual on field coaching is much more reliant on the coordinators now. They are going to greatly expand the football program support. So like an NFL team, they want to do what Bama has done and have a whole staff of advisors, basically well paid scouts. They are moving some of the academic support staff into football specific roles.

I am all for trying a different model of running the program. Schools like ASU will never compete with the blue bloods otherwise. That said, I can only see this working if they pay Herm Edwards less than $2M a year, while redirecting much of the coach salary pool to pay big money to all the assistant coaches. Then they can compete to hire the top recruiters that are actually competent coaching. I just don't see the Herm salary being that low. This hire reeks of cronyism. One big issue with this entire idea is that the AD is all in on the unfounded assumption that Herm Edwards is going to be a great recruiter. While the dude is considered to be fantastic in front of an audience, I am not sure he has the clout to move the meter with high school kids.

I would have been ecstatic for this entire idea had they hired Sumlin to be the closer/schmoozer/ CEO and brought in a staff of killers on the recruiting trail. Bringing in 63 year old Herm? Meh.

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:

UofAlum05 wrote:The whole model is silly. This isn't the NFL where almost every game has a neat 28-24 final score type feel. This is college football where there are different schemes, 2-point conversions, 4th down tries, trick plays, etc. College football is about coaching, player evaluation/development, and making the critical call at the right time.

The idea is not to actually coach the team like an NFL organization its to operate it like one. If I am understanding correctly, they want Herm Edwards to be more a CEO type. So his duties are mainly closing recruits and fundraising / schmoozing boosters. The actual on field coaching is much more reliant on the coordinators now. They are going to greatly expand the football program support. So like an NFL team, they want to do what Bama has done and have a whole staff of advisors, basically well paid scouts. They are moving some of the academic support staff into football specific roles.

I am all for trying a different model of running the program. Schools like ASU will never compete with the blue bloods otherwise. That said, I can only see this working if they pay Herm Edwards less than $2M a year, while redirecting much of the coach salary pool to pay big money to all the assistant coaches. Then they can compete to hire the top recruiters that are actually competent coaching. I just don't see the Herm salary being that low.

That low salary for the HC would really be a part of it. I personally would like to see someone who could go into that role at $500k a year and push the coordinator salaries to what, $1.5M a year plus? Make the competitive advantage that you have that you basically offer the best OC and best DC position in the country (or close to it).

First, I agree with 05Alum above, but this is the specific quote I want to comment on, the CEO stuff...

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
The idea is not to actually coach the team like an NFL organization its to operate it like one. If I am understanding correctly, they want Herm Edwards to be more a CEO type. So his duties are mainly closing recruits and fundraising / schmoozing boosters. The actual on field coaching is much more reliant on the coordinators now. They are going to greatly expand the football program support. So like an NFL team, they want to do what Bama has done and have a whole staff of advisors, basically well paid scouts. They are moving some of the academic support staff into football specific roles.

...

I would have been ecstatic for this entire idea had they hired Sumlin to be the closer/schmoozer/ CEO and brought in a staff of killers on the recruiting trail. Bringing in 63 year old Herm? Meh.

ASU looks at a program like Bama and sees the coach-as-CEO operation working well, and for another example look at the Tennessee women's basketball program under (and after) Pat Summitt. Both Saban and Summitt spent YEARS grinding away at the working level before EARNING the CEO status WITHIN the programs they coached. And in Summitt's later case, she was granted Head Coach Emeritus.

ASU is fatally turning this backwards. Ray Anderson looks at Bama's operation and thinks he can implement a CEO simply by declaring or appointing his friend as that CEO. This completely ignores that a CEO coach like Saban spent years in the weeds (and still does) working out every little coaching detail before that earned him status as face of the university. Ray thinks he can achieve the same effect by appointing a face of the university while leaving the actual coaching as afterthought to the assistants.

It's similar to taking a bunch of leadership classes and believing they qualify you to lead people in just about anything - ministry, accounting firm, construction site, air traffic control tower. The reality is that effective leaders and coaches in those specific disciplines are born through years of fighting away at the groundwork details in something like ministering, accounting, etc. They are not appointed out of the blue, as this Herm Edwards hire does in putting him back on the sideline nine years after he spent time there to below average results.

CatsbyAZ wrote:First, I agree with 05Alum above, but this is the specific quote I want to comment on, the CEO stuff...

Scummy Dick Douglas wrote:
The idea is not to actually coach the team like an NFL organization its to operate it like one. If I am understanding correctly, they want Herm Edwards to be more a CEO type. So his duties are mainly closing recruits and fundraising / schmoozing boosters. The actual on field coaching is much more reliant on the coordinators now. They are going to greatly expand the football program support. So like an NFL team, they want to do what Bama has done and have a whole staff of advisors, basically well paid scouts. They are moving some of the academic support staff into football specific roles.

...

I would have been ecstatic for this entire idea had they hired Sumlin to be the closer/schmoozer/ CEO and brought in a staff of killers on the recruiting trail. Bringing in 63 year old Herm? Meh.

ASU looks at a program like Bama and sees the coach-as-CEO operation working well, and for another example look at the Tennessee women's basketball program under (and after) Pat Summitt. Both Saban and Summitt spent YEARS grinding away at the working level before EARNING the CEO status WITHIN the programs they coached. And in Summitt's later case, she was granted Head Coach Emeritus.

ASU is fatally turning this backwards. Ray Anderson looks at Bama's operation and thinks he can implement a CEO simply by declaring or appointing his friend as that CEO. This completely ignores that a CEO coach like Saban spent years in the weeds (and still does) working out every little coaching detail before that earned him status as face of the university. Ray thinks he can achieve the same effect by appointing a face of the university while leaving the actual coaching as afterthought to the assistants.

It's similar to taking a bunch of leadership classes and believing they qualify you to lead people in just about anything - ministry, accounting firm, construction site, air traffic control tower. The reality is that effective leaders and coaches in those specific disciplines are born through years of fighting away at the groundwork details in something like ministering, accounting, etc. They are not appointed out of the blue, as this Herm Edwards hire does in putting him back on the sideline nine years after he spent time there to below average results.

I don't disagree with anything you posted. I think for most tied in fans its not the idea they aren't on board with, its the execution. Tabbing Herm Edwards just makes no sense on any level. Again, its tough to argue this isn't straight away cronyism. Herm Edwards had two agents when he was a NFL coach. One was Ray Anderson. The other? Ray Anderson hired him to be one of the many AD's he has hired in the last couple of years.

The CEO idea is legitimate. CFB is too big for a single guy nowadays. Edwards is a big name with an energetic and engaging personality. He is a good choice for the CEO model (and a terrible choice for any other model).

The hard part with the CEO model is assembling the right team around him. He can't really assist in things that require a decent amount of CFB knowlege. This means his team has to be able to handle the day to day aspects.

I'm reminded of Mack Brown at Texas. He was a coach in the CEO model. Texas's good years show the potential, and the decline to firing shows how the model can decay without the right people running the daily ops.

Mark my words...Edwards will be out by Year 3. 20 games under .500 for a career. Not a winner.

Herm talks a good game...Saban walks the walk.

The first sign of trouble and the whole thing crumbles like a house of cards. There will be no continuity. The offense will be doing its thing. The defense will be doing its own thing. But this is a case where the whole will not be more than the sum of the parts. In a tight game where down, distance, all clock management converge there is going to be chaos on the sideline.

ASU is taking an enormous gamble. They're counting on Edwards to be a great sell at recruiting. But what if recruits and their families are skeptical of ASU's model. If I'm recruiting against ASU, I'm going to attack their model and rip it to shreds. Recruits want guarantees. They want stability. This reeks of just the opposite and if it's a 50/50 call on going to ASU, this model can't help the commitment process.

This is going to be delicious.

Herm Edwards was notorious for clock mismanagement as an NFL coach. It was so bad he had to hire an assistant just to help him manage the clock in crunch time.

KingG wrote:Herm Edwards was notorious for clock mismanagement as an NFL coach. It was so bad he had to hire an assistant just to help him manage the clock in crunch time.

More coaches should do that. A ton of coaches are awful managing the clock. Andy Reid has been notorious for this for a while. I'm surprised it is not a staple for every pro team and widespread with colleges.

I really like Herm Edwards. I can't help it.

Paying off Toad has got to hurt.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

https://nypost.com/2017/12/15/arizona-s ... dy-a-mess/

Herm's interview with AZCentral - can't tell who the joke is on, the Q or the A?:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 047703001/" target="_blank

Q: There's been a lot of talk about your role as a CEO-type coach. What does that mean?

A: I’m everywhere. Like today, the players worked out. I’m watching them. They lift, the offense first. I’m watching. They go for an hour, I leave for about 30 minutes and come back. The defense is out there. I’m watching. Next thing you know, players say, ‘Coach, why are you in the locker room?’ I’m just in the locker room. That’s what I do. They were shocked. They said, ‘Coach, you’re everywhere.’ I told them that when I first took the job. I said, ‘Guys, I’m always going to be around.’ I listen to my eyes. You gain knowledge when you listen to your eyes.

CatsbyAZ wrote:Herm's interview with AZCentral - can't tell who the joke is on, the Q or the A?:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 047703001/" target="_blank

Q: There's been a lot of talk about your role as a CEO-type coach. What does that mean?

A: I’m everywhere. Like today, the players worked out. I’m watching them. They lift, the offense first. I’m watching. They go for an hour, I leave for about 30 minutes and come back. The defense is out there. I’m watching. Next thing you know, players say, ‘Coach, why are you in the locker room?’ I’m just in the locker room. That’s what I do. They were shocked. They said, ‘Coach, you’re everywhere.’ I told them that when I first took the job. I said, ‘Guys, I’m always going to be around.’ I listen to my eyes. You gain knowledge when you listen to your eyes.

WTF

Q: Have you had a chance to look at your roster?

A: I’ve watched a few (of last year’s) games. I’m kind of watching some every other day. It’s critical that I watch (film) with the offensive coordinator, and it’s critical I watch with the defensive coordinator because the defensive staff is all new. We’re just looking at personnel, trying to figure out how they work in the 3-3-5 (scheme). These guys were competitive last year. The key going forward: Can we put the players we have in position to be successful? Defensively, we have to do some things a little different.

Q: What do you like about the 3-3-5?

A: Yeah, we’re doing that. And there’s a reason for it. There’s a reason I hired (Danny Gonzales from San Diego State as defensive coordinator). It’s an awkward defense. You can get a lot of variables. You can get a lot of guys hitting the quarterback. There’s a reason we went out and got two (junior-college) corners (to go with) Chase Lucas and some of the other guys we have. We’re going to play a little bit different. If you’re going to win a Pac-12 championship, you have to be able to stop some people. Defensively, we have to raise the stakes

Herm Edwards running the 3-3-5 after we get Sumlin, I didn't think the off-season could get better.

ASU is going to be so awesome under herm.

Lol

Herm Edwards popping out of a laundry bin with a jockstrap hanging from his finger, screaming at Sparky as he walks out to cheer practice....

“You can’t sneak up on me, Satan! I’m everywhere!”

Only CEOs can listen to their eyes. That's what makes Herm special.

https://twitter.com/PickSixPreviews/sta ... twterm%5E0" target="_blank

ramcat wrote:https://twitter.com/PickSixPreviews/sta ... twterm%5E0

They only have 11 players signed so far.

Chicat wrote:

ramcat wrote:https://twitter.com/PickSixPreviews/sta ... twterm%5E0

I have my hope restrained until singing day shows us what ASU comes up with. I've followed UA football since moving to Tucson in 2007 and ASU's signing classes rank higher than ours EVERY **CKING YEAR!

Chicat wrote:

Annoyed? That lasted long. Not what recruits and parents of recruits want to hear. Sometimes it best to never open your mouth - say nothing.

How are you able to do a pro model of evaluation on high school kids and stay within NCAA regulations?

Here's the transcript
This story is amazing

This is going to be a fun dumpster fire to watch.

Chicat wrote:

And he's recruiting against the likes of Montana State

CatsbyAZ wrote:

Chicat wrote:

And he's recruiting against the likes of Montana State

And losing.

Herm has been tweeting advice to his team for the past two weeks. He hadn't tweeted since 2010 before then. I guess that was part of his social media strategy.